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BR added per Attribute - in-depth analysis page 2

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BR isn´t that inaccurate, a 45k br guy will solo 2 or 3 35k people, no matter what.

BR is just overrated, as said before.

 
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Originally posted by willy123096:
Originally posted by alveolate:
Originally posted by willy123096:

i don’t think you are being accurate here. The % stats for cashers seems to not be significant early on but after reaching like 10000 br and considering it as 2% will give you like 200 patck and 200 matck. It becomes a significant source of br then expecially when you have all those % adding together (dunno if multpilicatively or addictively but still) it can reach up to like 10%. I also don’t understand why you only did troops stats for templar. Some people like warlock you know .

I believe it is useless to even TRY to calculate this. There are too much factors. Did you factor in the fact that enemies might not build damage but defense instead? Does this br mean you are stronger? Not necessarily. So even if you successfully calculate it out it will be a useless number that will get you the STRONGEST warrior in baleneor or something but it can also mean nothing.

the difficulty in calculating % stat is precisely because i want to try and be accurate. the % stat on wings is only for ATK / DEF, and there are many OTHER sources for these stats, apart from the wings themselves, so it is kinda hard to figure that out and calculate it (takes some time at least). with 8 scrolls you could technically add 5% to all stats, or 5% to total BR, but i left that out as well. then there’s the +15% ATK / +20% HP / +20% DEF in passives… which are class-specific. of these 3 % modifiers, i am not even sure how they stack!

also, would appreciate if people could cut me some slack… my posts easily total 2000 words already, i had to seek out a whole load of stats on my own. do you expect me to be perfect with that amount of info? for instance, you could do the warlock stats for me, and i’d cut and paste it in.

as for the REASON to do this… it’s just so we get a sort of overview about where most of the BR comes from. i know i haven’t done the actual analysis yet, and some of the replies already do a bit of their own analyses… THAT’S the point! to inspire some analysis about BR, effectiveness, sources, cash or non-cash significance, etc.

for instance, gems are a HUGE source of BR, and 100% of this BR is EFFECTIVE (unlike Intelligence for Archers, for example). for cashers, a very stackable source of BR is the Mounts, which gradually build up rather significant stats. if we compare the equipment stats for 35pvp / 45pvp / 55pvp, you’d also see why it makes sense to rush-level to 55: the increase in BR (especially ATK stats) is very very significant. also, lv10 GS, which gives 9k BR, becomes a basic minimum for end-game; while the lv60 academy buffs only provide 2k BR (but quite some hidden strength in buffing your troops).

as for your comment that “higher BR doesn’t make you stronger”… that’s pure rhetoric. higher BR basically means you ARE stronger; but that new BR is not necessarily always effective in different situations… that’s the discussion part that i hope to provoke here.

as i commented in the skills section, ATK based BR is ALWAYS effective; unless you never attack. DEF based BR is next most effective, except when you don’t take any hits at all (which means you are overwhelmingly stronger or insanely lucky). HP is just as effective, but as hits get bigger and bigger later on in the game, each point of HP becomes less effective and requires LARGER DEF to maintain some effectiveness (e.g. 40k HP with 5k DEF will likely survive shorter than 35k HP with 8k DEF).

i digressed a bit into the analysis. but yea, that’s the kind of thing i wanted to talk about… before getting totally sucked into the heaps of BR data there is in the game (i’m still paranoid that i missed some huge ones).

Did you know i can win a level 55 that out br’s me and outlevels me. What is the reason? It’s because sometimes BR is inaccurate. This kid could have 90k BR but so what? It is not like he is stronger than some other kid. BR is not a rating on how effective someone is but an estimation of how effective the player can play. Trying to make it all precise is just pointless. A person with enhanced ruthlessness for example can get lucky and hit all their attacks on the +__% of their normal float dmg (Note: I said plus) and yet he can be lower in BR. I want to discourage the thought that BR is EVERYTHING in this game because it is NOT true. Also, as you stated some astrals aren’t even counted in the BR system. A player with 10k BR can perhaps have more overall damage and survivability during a single match then a 12k BR player with the use of these astrals. (Ex: GA, Aegis, Goddess Blessing, Ruthlessness, etc.)

Ofc you can win against stronger people AI, what´s your point?

And no, you wouldn´t win against a 90k br kid, lower your standards, please.

 
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Considering that the most powerful astrals don’t add a single point of BR, the value may be very misleading. It’s a rough yard stick to measure a player’s approximate power, nothing else.

Edit: A Will Destroyer Astral would also nullify any crit value from green stats and orange meds for example.

Edit 2 : right now i have no idea if getting lv2 stable mount (and up) would add any BR… please let me know if you have info on this!

Lv 2 does absolutely nothing to your stats. Lv 3 and 4 has 40% speed increase as opposed to 30% but no additional stats either.

 
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Originally posted by willy123096:

Fyi, no that kid can’t defeat me because i started farming him ONLY when he attacked me first and revealed his coordinates and if you know me you will know i don’t use runes, potions or medallions during pvp battles. And the reason why BR is inaccurate is because it has no relationship with each stats specificly. For all you know someone with 8000 patck can range from having 20000-50000 BR. It’s basically just a mush of numbers. I can say i value patck more and multiply it by 1.05% too just like matck. On the other hand, your true stats, like patck, matck, etc. is what you really want to look at. It isn’t curved or anything. Everything that comes out for this stats is exactly that. This is what makes it inaccurate. Plus if you haven’t notice you are doing this BR evaluation with a mage. Mages get matck and matck gets curved. An archer can do the same damage and have just the same peneration and everything but still will have a lower BR. It doesn’t mean they are less stronger does it? As a conclusion, I’ll like to put out there that what really matters is your REAL stats. Not your BR

So you’re stupid? Good to know…(first bolded part)

 
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Friendliness Bonus is different from what is stated in the post.
The in-game help is of course wrong. Nothing new there.

Not sure since which patch, but I now get charisma from lvl5 friends.
No idea about higher levels.

 
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I think the above argument can be summed up as there are stats which inflate BR but are not being used, so there is someone’s “real” BR which uses all of the stats they use and the shown “inflated” BR which includes non used stats like matk on archers/knights and crit on people with will destroyer. Taking that into account, most people can only inflate their br so much, as in my experience at least, there doesn’t appear to be a way to refine intel on patk items or strength on mage armor/weapon.So you can take BR as a ballpark figure, give or take 10% (at least that’s my general % leeway I give). Someone without a medal will fare significantly worse than somebody with one, the greatest difference being a swing of about 50% ( from the LD medal, taking less and dishing out more) + stats. Additionally the best stats to take a look at when scouting someone for whether you’ll beat them are: Relevant attack stat, Relevant defense stat, HP, (charisma/troop levels). Then it comes down to timing, skills, seals and crits/blocks.

If people are using this for a highest possible br at XYZ level in X gear. I commend you for trying. It’s probably faster to do it in excel than by calculator I might add.

As a nod to the PvE friendliness boosts, they DO show the extra BR during that dungeon. Whether this does something when you’re defending your city as you quest is a different matter for someone else to investigate though :)

Note2: Knights gain Pdef, HP Archers gain HP, Crit, Patk and Mages gain MDEF..?(o.o; thought they would gain something else too)
As such, in theory archers should have the highest BR with roughly equivalent stuff.

Random thing that annoyed me : you say that some astrals don’t give a drop in BR, I took this to mean you don’t lose BR.. maybe consider saying they don’t give any? Just for the sake of me :P

Good post though. Well written and acceptably formatted!

 
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Maximum gem lvl is 12. There will be more mounts too.

 
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Knights gain patk, pdef and hp, which prob put them highest, archers should be 2nd, and then mages gain matk and mdef, but matk has 1.05 br per point, so it evens out a bit…either way

 
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Originally posted by Atombender:
Originally posted by willy123096:

Fyi, no that kid can’t defeat me because i started farming him ONLY when he attacked me first and revealed his coordinates and if you know me you will know i don’t use runes, potions or medallions during pvp battles. And the reason why BR is inaccurate is because it has no relationship with each stats specificly. For all you know someone with 8000 patck can range from having 20000-50000 BR. It’s basically just a mush of numbers. I can say i value patck more and multiply it by 1.05% too just like matck. On the other hand, your true stats, like patck, matck, etc. is what you really want to look at. It isn’t curved or anything. Everything that comes out for this stats is exactly that. This is what makes it inaccurate. Plus if you haven’t notice you are doing this BR evaluation with a mage. Mages get matck and matck gets curved. An archer can do the same damage and have just the same peneration and everything but still will have a lower BR. It doesn’t mean they are less stronger does it? As a conclusion, I’ll like to put out there that what really matters is your REAL stats. Not your BR

So you’re stupid? Good to know…(first bolded part)

If you haven’t notice, i have been against what the owner of this post is saying and not criticizing ANYONE in particular. You, on the other hand, called me a name that i believe should be labeled as offensive in my view. So, I will warn you to not do it again or ill take appriopriate action.

Btw, my PLAYSTYLE is different from all of you of course. You like using medallions that cost insignia and i don’t because i want to save up for the crusader mount. Does that mean you are stupid or i am stupid? No. It is just that i’m thinking a bit long term and you are thinking more temporary since medallions disappear

 
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Originally posted by KevinL141:

I think the above argument can be summed up as there are stats which inflate BR but are not being used, so there is someone’s “real” BR which uses all of the stats they use and the shown “inflated” BR which includes non used stats like matk on archers/knights and crit on people with will destroyer. Taking that into account, most people can only inflate their br so much, as in my experience at least, there doesn’t appear to be a way to refine intel on patk items or strength on mage armor/weapon.So you can take BR as a ballpark figure, give or take 10% (at least that’s my general % leeway I give). Someone without a medal will fare significantly worse than somebody with one, the greatest difference being a swing of about 50% ( from the LD medal, taking less and dishing out more) + stats. Additionally the best stats to take a look at when scouting someone for whether you’ll beat them are: Relevant attack stat, Relevant defense stat, HP, (charisma/troop levels). Then it comes down to timing, skills, seals and crits/blocks.

If people are using this for a highest possible br at XYZ level in X gear. I commend you for trying. It’s probably faster to do it in excel than by calculator I might add.

As a nod to the PvE friendliness boosts, they DO show the extra BR during that dungeon. Whether this does something when you’re defending your city as you quest is a different matter for someone else to investigate though :)

Note2: Knights gain Pdef, HP Archers gain HP, Crit, Patk and Mages gain MDEF..?(o.o; thought they would gain something else too)
As such, in theory archers should have the highest BR with roughly equivalent stuff.

Random thing that annoyed me : you say that some astrals don’t give a drop in BR, I took this to mean you don’t lose BR.. maybe consider saying they don’t give any? Just for the sake of me :P

Good post though. Well written and acceptably formatted!

This is what i mean to say (well sort of). I mean if you are finding someone strong, BR doesn’t mean anything. look at their attack stat, defense stat, skills, etc. to determine if it fits for you. Some knights, building hp, will do better with a mage with a the HoT. While other knights, buliding patck will do terrible with a mage with the HoT. It’s just a bias way to view how someone is, in my view. It’s like saying “oh, you look dirty so you can’t be a billionaire.” but in reality you might’ve just slipped and landed in mud.

 
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Originally posted by SombreroNegro:

Ofc you can win against stronger people AI, what´s your point?

And no, you wouldn´t win against a 90k br kid, lower your standards, please.

So…if you read carefully i said i defeated a level 55….i never mention a 90k br. Plus, there is something i believe i should make clear. Doing something doesn’t prove you are good at it. You can ask the owner of this post if he met a 90k BR dude. I bet he hasn’t. So does that mean what he is doing doesn’t prove that you can get 90k BR? I don’t think so. Same with what you are saying. I can’t win a 90k BR. Does that mean I’m less significant in the wartune world? Should i go jump a bridge and suicide? I don’t think so either.

 
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Originally posted by willy123096:
Originally posted by Atombender:
Originally posted by willy123096:

Fyi, no that kid can’t defeat me because i started farming him ONLY when he attacked me first and revealed his coordinates and if you know me you will know i don’t use runes, potions or medallions during pvp battles. And the reason why BR is inaccurate is because it has no relationship with each stats specificly. For all you know someone with 8000 patck can range from having 20000-50000 BR. It’s basically just a mush of numbers. I can say i value patck more and multiply it by 1.05% too just like matck. On the other hand, your true stats, like patck, matck, etc. is what you really want to look at. It isn’t curved or anything. Everything that comes out for this stats is exactly that. This is what makes it inaccurate. Plus if you haven’t notice you are doing this BR evaluation with a mage. Mages get matck and matck gets curved. An archer can do the same damage and have just the same peneration and everything but still will have a lower BR. It doesn’t mean they are less stronger does it? As a conclusion, I’ll like to put out there that what really matters is your REAL stats. Not your BR

So you’re stupid? Good to know…(first bolded part)

If you haven’t notice, i have been against what the owner of this post is saying and not criticizing ANYONE in particular. You, on the other hand, called me a name that i believe should be labeled as offensive in my view. So, I will warn you to not do it again or ill take appriopriate action.

Btw, my PLAYSTYLE is different from all of you of course. You like using medallions that cost insignia and i don’t because i want to save up for the crusader mount. Does that mean you are stupid or i am stupid? No. It is just that i’m thinking a bit long term and you are thinking more temporary since medallions disappear

No one cares about your noobish “playing style”, all you need to do in a duel is to win and if you don’t take advantage of things available to you, then lower opponents will keep laughing at you being an easy target and you will rack up negative honor nicely.

You also mentioned “beating a Lv 55”, wow that says a lot. Was his BR below 30k or over 45k? But I guess that’s irrelevant to you.

 
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Like i said, I’m against the argument the owner of this post is making and not against anyone. Saying noobish to someone is off topic. I also said what i said because it was insignificant who this person was but the fact that i can beat him and not some other dude means that the spells they got did make a difference. BR and level alone is not something we should use to determine someone’s worthiness.

PS. The point of me not using medallion includes the fact that im not crusadar yet. There is nothing to lose except mayb 60 insig and 60 honor.

 
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Originally posted by willy123096:
Originally posted by SombreroNegro:

Ofc you can win against stronger people AI, what´s your point?

And no, you wouldn´t win against a 90k br kid, lower your standards, please.


So…if you read carefully i said i defeated a level 55….i never mention a 90k br. Plus, there is something i believe i should make clear. Doing something doesn’t prove you are good at it. You can ask the owner of this post if he met a 90k BR dude. I bet he hasn’t. So does that mean what he is doing doesn’t prove that you can get 90k BR? I don’t think so. Same with what you are saying. I can’t win a 90k BR. Does that mean I’m less significant in the wartune world? Should i go jump a bridge and suicide? I don’t think so either.

“This kid could have 90k BR but so what? It is not like he is stronger than some other kid.” <——

No, it´s wrong. He´s stronger than me and you combined, it doesn´t matter if you dislike the br calculation, it will still apply.

 
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Your wing stats are wrong from level 8 onwards by the way.
Level 8 is 300 to all and 5% to all, level 9 is 360 to all and 6% to all besides HP, and level 10 is 360 to all and 6% to all.

 
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Originally posted by Gralcio:

Friendliness Bonus is different from what is stated in the post.
The in-game help is of course wrong. Nothing new there.

Not sure since which patch, but I now get charisma from lvl5 friends.
No idea about higher levels.

the help is correct, the tooltip of the buff is wrong. charisma would be a totally useless bonus for mp content anyway ^^

and about BR… it doesnt reflect the usefullness of each stat for your character but its still good for measuring one’s strength. thats because most players increase their stats equally due to increasing costs. Only in some cases a players BR will be far off from its real strength. For example when our server merged and people were going for top3 rewards, some would replace all astrals with % increases for something different because the %bonuses dont count towards our BR. Knight and Archers even used MATK Astrals to boost their BR

 
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Originally posted by willy123096:

Like i said, I’m against the argument the owner of this post is making and not against anyone. Saying noobish to someone is off topic. I also said what i said because it was insignificant who this person was but the fact that i can beat him and not some other dude means that the spells they got did make a difference. BR and level alone is not something we should use to determine someone’s worthiness.

PS. The point of me not using medallion includes the fact that im not crusadar yet. There is nothing to lose except mayb 60 insig and 60 honor.

Originally posted by SombreroNegro:
Originally posted by willy123096:
Originally posted by SombreroNegro:

Ofc you can win against stronger people AI, what´s your point?

And no, you wouldn´t win against a 90k br kid, lower your standards, please.


So…if you read carefully i said i defeated a level 55….i never mention a 90k br. Plus, there is something i believe i should make clear. Doing something doesn’t prove you are good at it. You can ask the owner of this post if he met a 90k BR dude. I bet he hasn’t. So does that mean what he is doing doesn’t prove that you can get 90k BR? I don’t think so. Same with what you are saying. I can’t win a 90k BR. Does that mean I’m less significant in the wartune world? Should i go jump a bridge and suicide? I don’t think so either.


“This kid could have 90k BR but so what? It is not like he is stronger than some other kid.” <——


No, it´s wrong. He´s stronger than me and you combined, it doesn´t matter if you dislike the br calculation, it will still apply.

Once again it will argue that might not be true. Wings, for example leveling to the highest, can give you maybe few hundred br from matck alone. Perhaps add some intelligent potion to highest level to that and perhaps he got a, lets say +36 intelligence from his item. Now he’s an archer and is fighting an archer. Does this extra stats effect fighting against another archer? Of course not. Archers don’t use matck and don’t deal mtck for mdef to be useful. So the mdef and matck from intelligence is useless. But is it BR? Of course it is. Now do you see what I mean?

Originally posted by Setsuna88:
Originally posted by Gralcio:

Friendliness Bonus is different from what is stated in the post.
The in-game help is of course wrong. Nothing new there.

Not sure since which patch, but I now get charisma from lvl5 friends.
No idea about higher levels.

the help is correct, the tooltip of the buff is wrong. charisma would be a totally useless bonus for mp content anyway ^^

and about BR… it doesnt reflect the usefullness of each stat for your character but its still good for measuring one’s strength. thats because most players increase their stats equally due to increasing costs. Only in some cases a players BR will be far off from its real strength. For example when our server merged and people were going for top3 rewards, some would replace all astrals with % increases for something different because the %bonuses dont count towards our BR. Knight and Archers even used MATK Astrals to boost their BR

^ A perfect example of what i mean. I’m just arguing that this 90k br can mean nothing and can mean something. Yes, it is useful when trying to find someone quick but when you have time, I am just saying it is better to look at each stat carefully. Therefore, I’m also pointing out the bias that people have. People calling “35K BR only” should be careful who they are playing with.

 
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Originally posted by Aviv4321:

Your wing stats are wrong from level 8 onwards by the way.
Level 8 is 300 to all and 5% to all, level 9 is 360 to all and 6% to all besides HP, and level 10 is 360 to all and 6% to all.

Highest I have seen was Lv 6 wings and it followed the straightforward stats boost pattern (PATK/MATK 60/1, then PDEF/MDEF 60/1, then HP 600/1). There’s a higher increase in stats from Lv 8 onwards.

 
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Originally posted by Atombender:
Originally posted by Aviv4321:

Your wing stats are wrong from level 8 onwards by the way.
Level 8 is 300 to all and 5% to all, level 9 is 360 to all and 6% to all besides HP, and level 10 is 360 to all and 6% to all.

Highest I have seen was Lv 6 wings and it followed the straightforward stats boost pattern (PATK/MATK 60/1, then PDEF/MDEF 60/1, then HP 600/1). There’s probably a higher increase in stats from Lv 7 onwards

It is same at level 7 as well from what i seen, but also have the notion it scales higher at 8+

 
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hey guys sorry i took a one-week break… got a bit bored waiting for parties that never happened. BUT I’M BACK!

anyways, willy… sorry i got a bit bored of reading your long quotes… let me just sum up what i have to say about your comments here:

1. FACT: BR is NOT 100% accurate.
2. FALSE: BR is 100% useless.

this means that we probably agree somewhere in the middle, except you seem to use absolute terms too loosely (this is why i sorta “argued” with you). you keep saying:

Originally posted by willy123096:

… BR doesn’t mean anything. …

Originally posted by willy123096:

As a conclusion, I’ll like to put out there that what really matters is your REAL stats. Not your BR

if you want to be clear, then yes, not every point in your BR is worth something (crit stats on WD user, matk on patk user, etc) and i said this quite often too. in fact, you could even go scientific and value each stat independently (crit is far more valuable on archers, block is far more valuable on knights, etc). however, the math behind all that will quickly become crushingly hard to calculate/understand… hence BR is quite simply the sum of (i.e. adding up) the few main battle stats, with slight modifications to MATK and HP only.

nonetheless, i do apologise if i sounded like i was trying to diss you or anything. it’s just that what you said made BR sound useless, which is only partially true — BR still works as a decent gauge of a player’s strength. it is imperfect, of course, but definitely NOT useless. 2 persons close in BR can easily beat each other thanks to luck: a random crit or block here and there, or even just a low roll on dmg. that does NOT mean the BR was misleading or false

as for how inaccurate BR is… look at your own stats. i have 939 BR coming from MATK (Intel GS) and block (too lazy to refine away). so that is at most 2-3% of my BRthe inaccuracy is barely significant if u ask me. as for more specific cases like mdef being useless in patk vs patk matches, both will have their mdef being irrelevant, so it should more or less cancel out.
 

btw guys, i appreciate willy’s point that BR is not 100% accurate — that was partly the reason i made this thread too. some people get a little too hung up on BR: but neglect to compare some very important non-BR aspects such as:

1. the % astrals (WD, Determ, Illu, etc),
2. the impact of RNG (90-110% dmg mod, crit/block procs, landing hits on good target, etc), and
3. the Skill aspect (timing of skills, runes, swapping astrals for a fight, etc).

so it’s fine to bring up points, but let’s wrap up the minor arguments/disagreements quickly yea? state your point/opinion and agree to disagree if need be.

let’s just try to keep things positive and conducive for discussion yea? :)

also, if we could save some space by only quoting what is necessary… yea, that would be great. (@Sombrero, you did a stacked quote… boo….)

 
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Originally posted by Arintal:

Maximum gem lvl is 12. There will be more mounts too.

interesting info Arintal… i know KE’s chart includes lv12 gems, but i have never ever seen them in game tho. that’s kinda why i left them out. but if lv12s are attainable, then that makes gems EVEN HUGER OMGWTFBBQ. for big cashers, i’m definitely recommending more investments in gems and soul engraving lol. if you have some tangible proof that lv8-12 gems exist, i’ll update the list to include them :)

 

Originally posted by Aviv4321:

Your wing stats are wrong from level 8 onwards by the way.
Level 8 is 300 to all and 5% to all, level 9 is 360 to all and 6% to all besides HP, and level 10 is 360 to all and 6% to all.

another interesting tidbit… i have never seen any wings higher than lv5, so the higher level stats i am only extrapolating from what i have seen. could u link us a screenie? if your info is correct i will change mine immediately. thanks Aviv :)

 

Originally posted by KevinL141:

… someone’s “real” BR … and the shown “inflated” BR … you can take BR as a ballpark figure, give or take 10% … Someone without a medal will fare significantly worse than somebody with one, the greatest difference being a swing of about 50% … Additionally the best stats to … look at … are: Relevant attack stat, Relevant defense stat, HP, (charisma/troop levels). Then it comes down to timing, skills, seals and crits/blocks.

see? we can have a level-headed discussion without flaring up too bad :) i would like to highlight the issue of the medal here tho. as i am only dealing with BR, the medals are one of the most grossly under-represented sources of power here. their “BR” barely indicates the amount of power they bring! Kevin is right to point out that there is a HUGE swing between medal and no-medal (LD vs no medal is actually +40% dmg given / -20% dmg taken so it’s 60% lulz). indicated in my medal section that medals are very under-represented in BR.

As a nod to the PvE friendliness boosts, they DO show the extra BR during that dungeon. Whether this does something when you’re defending your city as you quest is a different matter for someone else to investigate though :)

thanks, i’ll check that under friend bonus too.

Random thing that annoyed me : you say that some astrals don’t give a drop in BR, I took this to mean you don’t lose BR.. maybe consider saying they don’t give any? Just for the sake of me :P

lol i rephrased it to “don’t give a lick of BR”… didn’t notice the word “drop” could be parsed differently here :) thanks for pointing out.

Good post though. Well written and acceptably formatted!

thanks~ took quite a bit of effort lol

 
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there is a mistake:

with lv60 Troop HP and 1000 TC: 28755 HP @ 5% TE = 1437 HP = +287.4 BR (Templar)

—>That’s wrong. Troop Count (Charisma) doesnt count with this enlightment. Only the 5% of the basis HP of your Troops are added to your HP in this case it’s

5451 HP @ 5% TE = 272,55 HP

 
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really? that kinda sux… anyone care to corroborate?

i did note that HP TE is actually 5% per level tho. so i should be putting 25% TE for HP.

 
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I tried it yesterday with my lvl 64 Templar and I had lvl 4 HP TE that means 25% and with TC 1116 it would be something about 8000HP but it only gave me about 1400HP.

 
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thanks for the info… that does make sense tho. 8000hp does seem quite OP lol