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Crit build is very tempting for a mage. Unlike Will Destroyer (WD), crit boosts your BR, allows you to make more gold/daru from world boss, and gives a chance for devastating damage to an opponent. I tested out crit build (lvl 7 Holy Sniper & lvl 8 Determination) and WD (lvl 7) to see how they compared. Here is what I found:
Crit build is very nice for world boss; my crit is around 4.2k and 33-50% of my hits crit in world boss. That results in roughly 30% more gold/daru than I got from using WD.
Crit also seems to work well in multiplayer dungeons (mps), especially when using aoes against groups of enemies. It isn’t quite as good against bosses. I find that in nightmare mps, crit often does not hit and I do less damage than if I used WD.
PvP events (arena and battle grounds) are where crit build seems to do the worst. While crit does grant the occasional lucky win (a crit thunderer can finish most opponents if they are less than 50% health), more often than not against people near my BR, crit is worse than WD. I have gotten crit heals (50k heal is always nice), but they are rare and can’t be relied on in a tough fight.
Based on my experience, I’d say crit build is good for mages in world boss and in normal mps (assuming you are high enough level that you don’t have to remove defensive astrals to use crit build), but less effective than Will Destroyer in PvP events.
How has crit been working for other mages?
Character Name: Redoga
Pretty much the same experience…
It plain out sucks in solo pvp(cw etc) unless you have a ton of crit, more than my 4.6k atleast…so yeah, wd any time for pvp, for now :) Supposedly it should get better going up in the 6-7k region, but ugh…thats costly in terms of refine stats lost, and needing 7/8 gems
Suprisingly passable in ga and bg and such though, opp there is less likely to have higher level and/or ga astrals on /shrug
how much gold did you spend to level up those two astrals, and how long will it take to recoup that gold with the increased gold from world boss events? If you had instead put that gold into your Will Destroyer, can you compare the difference from that to what you now have, including how much time it will take to pay for itself to have created the two astrals?
Green… there’s no way to compare the two of them. I mean, Crit for WB surely is the winner, no argue about that, and soon it pays itself + starts building others, besides, you can feed Determ to WD for CW, and do swap back again.
A Determ level 7 already is a big boost for WB, with only 2.5k Crit. 19.7k mattk making around 120-130k per cycle.
For PVP a more constant stream of damage is important, so WD wins, unless like gruntar said: you got a big amount of Crit Stats.
I’d have to agree with Weezy you can always swap them around assuming you have an extra will destroyer and determination stashed away plus crit does bring a good bit from world boss if you can get a high enough crit stat. With experimenting with astrals its hard to have a complete loss since you can just toss the astral into another if it don’t work.
I got my WD to level 6 before feeding it to my crit. Sometimes I regret it, but overall I have over 3k crit which isn’t amazing, but not horrible. I find that even in PvP arena, it’s almost equal but WD is probably better by a little. WD is guaranteed damage, but not as good as crits when you hit them.
When I use an AoE on 3 opponents, that’s 6 chances to crit, and I almost always at least crit once or twice if not more. My crit chance isn’t quite 50%, but it feels fairly close, I’d say 35% – 40%. So with every WD hit, you’d do more damage than a non-crit hit using crit astrals, but this is offset by the fact that every time you crit, it will do more damage than a WD would.
I still really enjoy using my crit astral, even in PvP. Would I be a bit more effective using a WD? Probably. Is it a big enough difference to justify buying another WD for 7000 astral points? Probably not. But if I do get another WD from random draws, I will probably hold on to it. My logic is that once a WD is higher, it would probably be even better than crit. (At level 10 a WD is guaranteed 50% damage boost. That’s almost like pulling crits on every single hit.)
But for now, I will continue to use my crit.
A bit showing off…but i seriously dont think switching between wd and det is a problem, for cw and such :)
ok…maybe more than a little then…but i was just bored ^^
EDIT: note the astrals on the side…not the highlighted one ;)
as i understand it a critical hit does 50% more damage than a regular hit when it triggers. I have level 6 will destroyer and it gives 30% more each and every hit. assuming 5% growth continues when I top it out at level 10 it should do 50% more on every hit. Like many astrals i think you have to look at levels. A level 2 will destroyer sucks. A level 10 seems like an awesome thing to me.
> *Originally posted by **[gruntarswe](/forums/228/topics/353367?page=1#posts-7335641):***
> A bit showing off…but i seriously dont think switching between wd and det is a problem, for cw and such :)
> ok…maybe more than a little then…but i was just bored ^^
> EDIT: note the astrals on the side…not the highlighted one ;)
Gruntar share your astrals! \>.\>
> *Originally posted by **[WeezyPT](/forums/228/topics/353367?page=1#posts-7334876):***
> Green… there’s no way to compare the two of them. I mean, Crit for WB surely is the winner, no argue about that, and soon it pays itself + starts building others, besides, you can feed Determ to WD for CW, and do swap back again.
> A Determ level 7 already is a big boost for WB, with only 2.5k Crit. 19.7k mattk making around 120-130k per cycle.
> For PVP a more constant stream of damage is important, so WD wins, unless like gruntar said: you got a big amount of Crit Stats.
Is there no way to determine how quickly swapping out to crit build will pay for itself? I would need to know how expensive it would be to level up a determination and snipers edge (and possibly spend star points to get them rather than on energine). I imagine it’s a fair bit of gold to get say, level 7 of each, and in getting those, and deducting the star points, would it possibly equal if merged into a will destroy (and using the star points on energine instead of buying the two new astrals) a lvl what, 9 or 10 will destroy? Can you kinda guestimate the damages and gold gains on crit build and see if it’s still more with the lower level crit astrals compared to the higher level (that you would have naturally if you didn’t swap out) and see if you are still getting more gold at that point, and if yes, how long it will take to pay for it?
I’m certain that if all astrals were level ten, and no where else to put it, then the crit may be a smart idea to swap out for, but to GET the two astrals and level them up, you are taking away from leveling up your existing will destroyer, so you cannot compare gold gains from the same level WD vs Crit astrals, you would HAVE to compare to a higher level WD. I would love to see math on it, but currently have no intention of working on two new astrals just for testing. (I’m a poor poor knight, still have other astrals to pour gold into atm)
Something i made when bored…
As a general idea, 2k-ish crit is enough for wb, then just level determ up as high as you feel like
Switching from wd 7 to det 7 and 2k crit made around 15-25% diff at the time, if i recall correctly(was a couple months ago), and comparing to a wd 9 for example, you’d be doing 2/27ths more damage than wd 7, or roughly 8%…det 7 should therefore still net you between 5 and 15-ish % more gold compared to a wd 9…that is from my personal experience only, so take it with a grain of salt…it also depends a lot on if you can or cant double, for example
I haven’t really calculated the costs. It is difficult to measure overall benefit vs loss between the two builds because of how many variables there are. You can level determination further to boost your world boss winnings to ever greater heights, but with the high cost to level the astral, it would take months to pay for itself. However, increasing your gold and daru winnings also allows you to improve your troops faster (leveling them and getting enlightenment). So, how would that factor in? Does the boost to your troops offset the cost of getting and developing 2 extra astrals? It may be that you don’t even spend your extra income on astrals for a while; might be that you prioritize enchanting your gear or getting your buildings leveled up. It seems to me that the “value” in crit build is more a matter of playing style. Some will see it as worth the extra hassle and others will not bother with it.
If I had to guess, just looking at the costs to level and how fast they increase, I think 2 level 7 astrals would get you roughly a level 8 will destroyer that is between one quarter and half way to level 9.
This is my personal observation, I spent about 30 days with a full Crit Mage 22K MATK (8 lvl 6 Crit Gems, Crit 8-10 in all refined items) and gave me almost 4k Crit. I had both lvl 7 on Determ and Sniper.
I have to agree with HowDoUPlay, my Crit was about 35-45% with MP mobs. That is where it stops though, the remainder were 20-25% with MP bosses in both Demon Temple and Samsara. For BG, GB and PVP it was about 15-20%..it was so bad that I thought maybe something was wrong until I found an old post on R2 that stated in a nutshell, that other players with “similar” Crit stats can mute your overall Crit chances (imo 1k +- crit differential is the threshold). Sort of like somewhat canceling each other out, it is the same for block. Of course, this is why, as gruntarswe pointed out, you need to get Crit up to insane 7-8k lvl to really see the effectiveness. It really is a matter there not being many toons that will have those type of Crit stats. Lastly, the crit of BL and resto is indeed even less of a chance to hit, negating that advantage.
I learned that the advantage is really with WB. With WB, the % goes up significantly, around 65-70% on avg. I am on S2 and I can consistently hit top 20 in ranking with just lvl 5 Sniper, lvl 6 Determ, 1/2 buff (vouchers only) and Revive. Here is the interesting part, I also have a lvl 5 Ruthless that I use now. With Ruthless and the same method above I get in Top 10 every time and push on avg 140-150k with a low of 91k and a high of 186k. Further I am almost reaching archer lvls with their delphic attack, for example today I reached 222k dmg on one hit, Note: I was fully buffed…1/2 buff I have reached 160k dmg.
Other than that I am working on getting my WD to level 8 and Enshieldment to lvl 8. I am a tank mage now because it provides more consistency in dmg and dmg received and is more functional in MP’s, PVP and BG’s and GB (unless I am just attacking their Ward, then I put on crit astrals because Ward towers function similar to WB’s). It’s a matter of preference really, Crit Mages are the sexy toons for the mage class, but it costs too much to get the toon to the level it needs to be for a truly effective Crit mage.
Hey guys! Anyone have some news on the crit vs will destroyer subject? I have seen all the top mages on the cross server ranking are now going crit. They have crit gems, astrals and refines – losing a ton of mdef, pdef and block to have the same dmg as they had with will destroyer. They surely know what they are doing?
Most of the top mages are crit build, but most of them are also whales, heavy cashers, and/or older players who have the astrals, gems, sylphs, and stables built up so they can be crit without being paper tigers. I’m probably the only EWD mage in the top 20 from last CW (came in 8th; not to brag, but to show that you can use EWD and still do well in CW).
The advantages of EWD: 1) consistent, predictable damage output, 2) you have an extra astral slot compared to crit mages, 3) you can have an overall tankier build since you don’t need to invest armor refines & gems in crit 4)better damage output in nightmare mps (crits fail a lot in nm mps unless you have crazy high stat; maybe gruntar can tell us how well 8k crit does in Nirvana nm?)
The advantages of crit: 1) better income from world boss, 2) potential for much higher dps; the better your crit stat, the better your chances for consistently higher dps than level 10 EWD will ever achieve 3) it gives you some crit protection; crit mages with high crit stat seem to receive fewer crits than those with lower crit stat and EWD mages 4) crit heals 5) higher BR (matters in events that reward you for BR and in CW where those with same number of wins are ranked by BR)
My opinion is that endgame, mages will have to go crit. Events like world boss, guild battle (the individual rewards), and divine altar all reward dps over other stats. Necropolis and later mps also require you to be able to crank out the dps (but you also need to be tanky enough to survive a few hard hits). Those bosses get a 1000% attack buff if you don’t kill them fast enough. With the focus on dps, it feels like going crit and having a higher crit stat is eventually the way we’ll have to go.
> *Originally posted by **[Greenfireflygirl](/forums/228/topics/353367?page=1#posts-7334393):***
> how much gold did you spend to level up those two astrals, and how long will it take to recoup that gold with the increased gold from world boss events? If you had instead put that gold into your Will Destroyer, can you compare the difference from that to what you now have, including how much time it will take to pay for itself to have created the two astrals?
World Boss is also Daru…
I think the ideal is to have a crit build you can swap in for world boss. I don’t know any mages rich enough to do that effectively. Heck, even if you did the grinding for the gold, SPENDING the gold on astrals is ANOTHER grind.
I’m no super player or anything, but on S13 I’m probably the only EWD mage who consistently hits top ten for mage rankings. Virtually everyone else has gone crit build.
This has let me do better than my BR would suggest in PVP against other mages, where my GA further nerfs the crit builds and my MR is typically a bit higher as well.
I’m the only EWD mage who is in top 10 (overall) without cashing wb on my server. My EWD is level 10, and I do better in wb than the crit mages on my sever (note: I’m the stongest mage on my server by more than 20k BR, so I have a significant BR advantage over the crit mages as well).
The advantage in PvP EWD gives me is consistent hard hits. A solid crit can be devastating, but their non crit hits are often weaker than my normal hits, giving me more dps unless they are lucky or have very high crit. I find deflect can be better than GA. I’ve experimented, doing CW with one and the next month with the other. The crit protection helps, but I like illusion and deflect better; they seem to proc often enough to be useful and have allowed me to win fights I should have lost (so far deflect is the only astral that allows you to win a fight you already lost; I’ve been cheated out of enough wins by deflect procing when I deal the killing blow, being killed by it, and having the game say I lost, even though the other player died first, to want that luck working for me =P).
Well I was an EWD mage all my wartune life till I hit 80, 1 year and 2 months. EWD is good but it has less privileges than Crit. My wartune experience totally changed when I switched. You sacrifice stuff but the outcome is really amazing.
- No more swapping astrals for wb / Feeding 2 sets of astrals is a pain
- ToK / Spire / MPs are a lot easier and fun with crit.
- PvP is fun too
- Sylphs can crit. This said, you boost their crit rate and hit harder in all aspects of the game. Let’s say this game is all about sylph’s ults. Kill or be killed, enough said.
The other side of the story, heals. We all know that EWD mage will never hit 100k+ BL heals / 120k+ Restoration etc. Meaning, you have bigger chance to stay alive too, you and your whole team, pve and pvp.
If you stay alive till you awake your beauty, it’s GG. Especially I love how Hades rocks the enemy on a crit mage. I’m like 124k atm and I’ve killed 130k+ mages, even 150k archer with orange apo, with my 3\* blue Hades.
Runes help a lot though.
Hitting lv80 is all about crits, or this game will be boring, and I would eventually stop playing it. I would go on and on writing about being a crit mage but you already know all about it.
I always switch to ewd for cw, otherwise im crit 100% of the time…doing an astral switch once a month isnt too expensive, just a few k star points, or even dropped astrals
Crit gems to mdef is a bit more expensive, but again…once a month, i can take it :)
That explains it =D I was wondering how I fought you three times last month in CW and never got hit by a single crit. My GA was helping a bit in all those fights with crit mages, but I didn’t think it was possible for GA to be the reason you didn’t crit even once. Why do you change to EWD for CW? I’d think your 8k crit stat would be more than enough to crit almost anyone.
Well, the output is too unstable for my taste in pvp, too many people going ga for example…and i rather gem hp, and both def than crit for pvp :)
Now with sylphs, the time when one could ignore that stat is way past…
And i guess just like surviving the delps of other than race to see who sylphs first? You should know what i meant with that ^^
Yes, I do know what you meant =)
I usually try to end the fight faster because of lag. Lag messes up timing, makes my cd’s just a hair longer than they should be, and makes the time out in CW round fall anywhere between 10 sec early and 10 sec late. When the trolls on my server decide to fire off a barrage of fireworks during CW (which they’ve done the past 2 months), the lag is even worse and I get double hit by some opponents. Ending fights faster counters the lag somewhat (less time for things to go wrong), but with high level amnesia runes, defensive fate levels, and guardian system, sylphing early for fast kill is becoming a less viable strategy. Overall, its a good thing, as it will shift more focus to skill and timing and take some of the focus off of heavy cashed sylphs.