#1 Reccomended Change/Game Tweak

27 posts

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Please set all PvP battles so opponent goes first. Currently, there is far too great an advantage of going first.


The only other way you could fairly have the game be setup is turn order goes like this:
Turn 1. Player A
Turn 2. Player B
Turn 3. Player B
Turn 4. Player A
5&6,7&8, 9&10, etc. = BA

 
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no it can’t be that way…
if that happens, it would not be fair, its like the B attacks twice

 
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When you try to fix something, you should be aware of how breaking it to the other side works.

Cuz when you don’t you end up with suggs like this one.

 
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turn 1 & turn 3 A goes first after this BA

 
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Originally posted by ArcanisX:

When you try to fix something, you should be aware of how breaking it to the other side works.

Cuz when you don’t you end up with suggs like this one.

If defense went first, it would be LESS broken than it is now. AMIRIGHT? yup

 
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Originally posted by pacaholic:
Originally posted by ArcanisX:

When you try to fix something, you should be aware of how breaking it to the other side works.

Cuz when you don’t you end up with suggs like this one.

If defense went first, it would be LESS broken than it is now. AMIRIGHT? yup

Not really, it just means people lose a lot more matches, which no-one likes.

 
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Originally posted by swishscoop:
Originally posted by pacaholic:
Originally posted by ArcanisX:

When you try to fix something, you should be aware of how breaking it to the other side works.

Cuz when you don’t you end up with suggs like this one.

If defense went first, it would be LESS broken than it is now. AMIRIGHT? yup

Not really, it just means people lose a lot more matches, which no-one likes.

not really? um, yes really. Its not hard to understand the concept. Now if u don’t like the idea thats fine, or if you have a better idea thats fine, or if you like it how it is now thats fine. But it would make it less broken than it is now.

Right now the offense has 2 huge advantages. They go first, and they can play the cards they want without the AI controlling them. Reverse one of those advantages and obviously its going to make it more fair. Now is it still unfair? Maybe. Would it switch the easier side to defense? Maybe. Is it a bad idea? Maybe. But what I said still stands true… It would be less broken than it is now.

 
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wow… why dont they just make it so that the person who goes first cant attack during turn 1? then everyone’s happy

 
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Originally posted by yanni1357:

wow… why dont they just make it so that the person who goes first cant attack during turn 1? then everyone’s happy

Usually nobody attacks during turn 1 though because usually nobody plays cards with 0 wait time

 
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Originally posted by cookiemunster:
Originally posted by yanni1357:

wow… why dont they just make it so that the person who goes first cant attack during turn 1? then everyone’s happy

Usually nobody attacks during turn 1 though because usually nobody plays cards with 0 wait time

exactly

 
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Look the AI is NOT smart, even if it was better, the player always has the advantage with going first. There should be some advantage of having the AI use your deck in a PVP. That advantage should be going first! MY ABBA was just my 2nd option.
-——-
EX: Having people not attack on turn 1 solves nothing. If I play hatchet on turn 1 and have air strike in my hand, I can’ virtually start going through most decks.

 
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The turns could easily be made simultaneous.

 
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If they do live PVP then stick the first go in an RNG, odd then attacker goes first, even defender. For AI games have the defender always go first and missions are fine as they are as you can tweak the difficulty with the card values to keep balance.

The snake pick system (abbaabbaab…) would be the fairest way but it would require a large sample of rounds before A would overcome that huge advantage B has of having 2/3 of the first three rounds. Its fine for doing fantasy drafts, but in a game like this its going to have a huge inherent advantage to the defender and also increase the variance massively where the attacker needs to draw one of a very small number of cards in the first round to stand a good chance of overcoming a Missile Silo spam or speed deck.

“The turns could easily be made simultaneous.”

Only if you create a totally different combat system and more or less just create a new game. Rotating right of way is fine and forcing people to choose blind would remove a lot of the skill of it, you would in effect close the intelligence gap between humans and the AI, but only because you have dumbed down the decision making capabilities of the human.

 
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Originally posted by deltatwelve:

If they do live PVP then stick the first go in an RNG, odd then attacker goes first, even defender. For AI games have the defender always go first and missions are fine as they are as you can tweak the difficulty with the card values to keep balance.

The snake pick system (abbaabbaab…) would be the fairest way but it would require a large sample of rounds before A would overcome that huge advantage B has of having 2/3 of the first three rounds. Its fine for doing fantasy drafts, but in a game like this its going to have a huge inherent advantage to the defender and also increase the variance massively where the attacker needs to draw one of a very small number of cards in the first round to stand a good chance of overcoming a Missile Silo spam or speed deck.

“The turns could easily be made simultaneous.”

Only if you create a totally different combat system and more or less just create a new game. Rotating right of way is fine and forcing people to choose blind would remove a lot of the skill of it, you would in effect close the intelligence gap between humans and the AI, but only because you have dumbed down the decision making capabilities of the human.

I actually like the idea of simultaneous turns, so I’m going to multitroll™ you:

You claim simultaneous turns would turn the game inside out while at the same time you promote a system (snake abbaabb…) that would not only make the effects of cards TWICE as big as they are (would pretty much a**f**k abilities like armored and heal, which are already the underdogs in comparison to offensive abilities), but would also change the way card delays play out completely. Your thinking pattern seems to be upside down here, more f’d up is less f’d up? wtf?

Simultaneous turns on the other hand turn the game into even more strategic than it is; especially if/when we get real PvP – given you know anything about his strategy / deck (both players seeing the opponents deck right before battle would be a good thing – they could not change decks after that of course) you would have to calculate one step ahead immediately instead of playing only in the current situation [you know what the opponent has in his deck, you know what he might have in his hand and what he could be playing and you have to try to counter that as well as countering the current situation].

That’s not all though, simultaneous turns also give more importance to abilities like heal, which currently is quite bad, since it cannot save a card that is killed in 1 turn, which is very often the case, instead a well placed card with heal or heal all could prevent that next assault cards strike from killing the card before it.

More complex strategy doesn’t mean dumbed down decision making either, it just means you need to have more brains – most card games, like MtG, give semi-simultaneus turns, where some cards may be played simultaneously while others can’t (instants / interrupts / activateable abilities from cards in play etc.) and I don’t see how that makes the decisions between which cards to play blind, as you claim, but rather even more strategic, because you can actually anticipate the opponents moves and try to counter them before he makes them.

 
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Originally posted by pacaholic:
Originally posted by ArcanisX:

When you try to fix something, you should be aware of how breaking it to the other side works.

Cuz when you don’t you end up with suggs like this one.

If defense went first, it would be LESS broken than it is now. AMIRIGHT? yup

Nop. Matter of fact, your insistance makes me seriously suspect a severe case of brainworm infestation.

Now, for those with any brains left:

ABBA order is functionally identical to BABA in 99% of cases (the other 1% making for 0-waits).

You are SIMPLY TRANSFERRING THE ADVANTAGE OF FIRST ATTACK WITH EVERY CREATURE OF EQUAL WAIT FROM ATTACKER TO DEFENDER.
Which is what I called “breaking it to the other side”.

Now I’ll just pop a popcorn to see how many people can figure this simple fact out, and how many apes will argue. It really takes just the ability to count to two, so…

 
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Hmm.. I’d play a rally flag, then a Grunt.. pew pew 6 damage, 8 if I’ve got rally/atlas.

 
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Flip the coin, how hard is it?

 
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Originally posted by SombreroNegro:

Flip the coin, how hard is it?

Won’t make “#1, recommended CHANGETWEAK”myass, you know? As in, you can’t pretend to be the smartest ape in the forest with a sugg like that. OP’s one, on the other hand… screw apes, it almost beats chimpanzees!

 
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Flip a kangaroo, how hard is it?

 
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ABAB = Big advantage to A, ABBA = Big advantage to B. How about aBab? a’s turns go like normal, but on the capital B turn two cards are played instead of one (not the same as abba because the first card played doesn’t lose a delay). From then on, it plays like the current setup.

 
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I’ve been thinking about that, Ej. It is better then most other things (at least it’s not pure and hopeless nonsense). Could still turn out to be bit too much advantage for B.

 
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And don’t for get that on capital B, each card can only attack once. (Playing infantry on the first half of B means it attacks once for 1 damage).

 
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For all the retards out there, go play elements if you don´t know what flip a coin means.

And whats up with this ABBA stuff? Let it be random, like the said game, how hard is it?

 
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Originally posted by SombreroNegro:

For all the retards out there, go play elements if you don´t know what flip a coin means.

And whats up with this ABBA stuff? Let it be random, like the said game, how hard is it?

You have to play elements to know how to toss a coin in the air and see which side it lands on?

I think letting the AI go first was the best suggestion yet. It wouldn’t be too big of an advantage for the AI, seeing as how when I set my game on auto my AI play EMP on the first turn nothing out on the field..

 
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Defender gets one bonus “Defense only” card, functions like an extra commander, can only be set by Faction leader and it’s faction-wide.