[To Devs] Detailed Conquest Overhaul Suggestion

10 posts

Flag Post

As I see it, the fundamental problem with Conquest is that the structure heavily favors the status-quo to the extent that a large number of factions are effectively blocked from participating.

Reasons:

1) Conquest rewards are obtained only by passively controling tiles.
2) Geometric limitations make center tiles immune to attack by the overwhelming majority of opponents. Level capping and associated exploits exascerbate this issue.
3) Conquest rewards feed directly into the ability to stustain large conquest areas in a non-scaling fashion.
4) Reward caps reduce the impetus for established factions to continue conquest.

Proposed Solution:

1) Change the exchange rate of conquest tokens. Make them more common, (like gold rather than components), to allow finer grain control. I would say that one existing conquest token should equal about 300 of these new tokens.

2) Remove both level caps (in all forms) and reward caps.

3) Restructure conquest rewards to reward both retaining tiles and attacking them, even unsuccessfully. Suggested math:

For retaining tiles, each member can obtain a daily alotment of tokens equal to T*(200-X) where T is the number of tiles the faction controls and X is the number of that faction’s deck slots defeated by attackers in the last 24 hours.

For attacking, each slot defeated by the attacking faction gives each member in that faction a number of tokens equal to the defender’s number of tiles, whether the whole tile is taken or not. These tokens can be obtained for 24 hours after the end of conquest.

For example, say Faction A has 5 tiles. Normally each member can get 1000 tokens daily. Faction B invades Faction A and destroys 10 slots but ultimately fails. Each member of Faction B still can collect 10*5 = 50 tokens at the end of the conquest. Each member of Faction A collecting in the next 24 hours only gets 190*5 = 950 tokens.

4) Make faction items scale down in effectiveness with more tiles. Suggested math:

Make warbond upgrades worth 1 item, and non warbond upgrades worth 1/10 item.

First level upgrade requires 5 items per tile. Second level requires 20 items per tile. Third level requires 50 items per tile.

For example, Faction controls 5 tiles and has 80 WB items. Since they have 80/4 = 20 items/tile, they have the second level attack upgrade. If Faction attacks and wins another tile, they only have 80/5 = 16 items/tile, so they only get the first level upgrade. If they continue expanding without buying more items, they will lose their first level upgrade once they conquer their 17th tile.

5) Add an additional method of attack: air drop. This allows a faction to attack a non-adjacent tile, but grants each enemy defense deck +30 health.

My Analysis of Effects:

Attacks (i.e. participation) should be much more common, since even failed attacks can gain rewards.

Holding a large number of tiles and successfully defending them will be far more difficult because 1) tiles can no longer be geographically isolated 2) item effectiveness decreases with more tiles and 3) factions with large numbers of tiles will be disproportionately targeted for raids since gains will be higher.

Gaining a single tile will be somewhat easier because 1) concentrating defense on a minority of tiles by large factions will not be possible due to air drop attacks 2) item effectiveness increases with fewer tiles and 3) there will be no level caps.

Successfully holding a large number of tiles will give greater rewards than it does currently, commensurate with the greater difficulty in doing so.

Lower level factions will not likely be able to gain their own tiles (just like now), but they will be able to participate in conquest by raiding established factions.

Wars will be fought much less often as conquests are fought more often; better rewards for higher level factions might offset this.

Alt faction exploits will be less blatant since gains by one faction are offset by losses from the defender. Using a number of strongly itemized alt factions controling single tiles and farming them by attacking with the main would be possible, but the effort to reward here will be pretty low and the 1 attack/faction/day limit will leave these alts vulnerable to other raiders.

My hope is that this is an attractive solution for members of low level factions (who have a chance to participate without artificially limiting their level) mid level factions (who can actually gain tiles if they don’t already have them) high level factions (who stand to gain more, uncapped rewards with smart, well organized play) and the devs (who will likely sell more WB items).

 
Flag Post

The problem with this idea is that the Alliance will just do tile-swapping to earn more tokens, while blocking everyone else.

Conquest has nothing to do with skill now, it’s just about being friends with the right people. It could be so much fun but has been ruined by cheaters.

 
Flag Post

i agree with aapje BUT i think the airdrop attack option is a great idea!

 
Flag Post
Originally posted by Aapje:

The problem with this idea is that the Alliance will just do tile-swapping to earn more tokens, while blocking everyone else.

Conquest has nothing to do with skill now, it’s just about being friends with the right people. It could be so much fun but has been ruined by cheaters.

Maybe you should see this thread before insulting people…

http://www.kongregate.com/forums/65-tyrant/topics/313579-gentlement-agreement-tile-swapping

 
Flag Post
Originally posted by Vagrant1985:

Maybe you should see this thread before insulting people…

http://www.kongregate.com/forums/65-tyrant/topics/313579-gentlement-agreement-tile-swapping

I knew about that thread already. It took a pretty big effort to get most big factions to agree to that. Still, 2 major factions refuse to sign up to that. BUT that is in the current system, where tile swapping only gives you FP, which is pretty much useless after you reach faction level 17 (which gives the last usable reward card).

Now imagine that factions would miss out on the big draw of Conquest: tokens. It would be like the current alliance giving up their well…alliance and risking not getting maximum tokens. It’s never going to happen. I don’t see how saying this is particularly insulting, unless it’s insulting to point out how the alliance is gaming the system.

 
Flag Post

Aapje, I considered this when designing the math here, and the problem you propose does not exist. Under these proposed rules, tile swapping only earns more tokens for the smaller faction. Swapping tiles is always a net neutral.

Say we have A and B factions, each with 10 tiles. Normally they would each get 200×10 = 2000 tokens a day. If they swap tiles, each will earn (200-X)x10 + Xx10 tokens where X is the number of slots defeated. This means they will earn exactly the same amount.

Say A has 10 tiles and B has 20 tiles. A would get 200×10 = 2000 tokens daily; B would get 200×20 = 4000 tokens daily. If they swap (with 30 slots), A would get (200-30)x10 + 30×20 = 2300 tokens, while B would get (200-30)x20 + 30×10 = 3700 tokens daily.

Since there are no reward caps, having an extra tile will always be more beneficial, and since smaller factions come out ahead when tile swapping, it makes this sort of gentleman’s agreement no longer mutually profitable.

The most effective way to game this system would be to time the attacks to that members of each faction pulled their tokens when their faction had one extra tile; this would help most for small factions; a few low level factions could ‘share’ 1 tile; one taking it, getting tokens, then the next taking it again. The marginal gains diminish rapidly as the size of the factions involve increase, making this sort of gaming not worth the time of larger factions. Basically you can exploit to get a small amount of tokens or you can play well and get a large amount of tokens; I know which one I’d prefer.

Finally, the air drop mechanic makes even this sort of tile trading dicey since any other faction could swoop in and snap up your traded tile before the recipients can invade.

If anyone can come up with a mathematically beneficial way to seriously exploit these numbers with 0 risk, I’d like to hear it.

 
Flag Post

Ok, that does indeed sound good.

 
Flag Post

Bump this, this idea really good.

And I suggest OP’s Solution-3 math change:
ZL*(100-X) where ZL is Zone Level that based on the number of tiles the faction controls and X is the number of that faction’s deck slots defeated by attackers in the last 24 hours.

Lowest T for ZL = (T+T^2)/2
ZL1 = 1+ tile
ZL2 = 3+ tile
ZL3 = 6+ tile and so on

 
Flag Post

+9001*infinity
Dear OP: I love you. May I suggest you take a look at my recent post on tournament reward distribution? http://www.kongregate.com/forums/65-tyrant/topics/314518-proposal-for-tournament-reform

 
Flag Post

Given the recent discussion of restructuring, might be worth looking at Woader’s idea again too.