Recent pricing errors and bans - official Kongregate statement page 2

And another edit, but why isn’t snail in this forum? This is about THEIR GAME. They should be here along with Kong. The best way for you all to solve this is by communication, and it seems kong is the one communicating, where as Snail is staying quiet because they know they’ve not done crap about any other glitch in this game.

Hear-hear! Exactly what I was thinking. If not for Phoenix, we would be left in the dark with nary an answer, care or concern from anyone in authority. And he shouldn’t have to do it alone either. As you said, there SHOULD be someone from Snail in this forum to read and reply to what is being said! And afterwards, open up a line of diiscussion from its game base to its players. But such an act borders on common courtesy, decency and the right thing to do, so therefore, Snail will do the exact opposite.

And on a side note:

No company can advertise something in the United States of America and say oh sorry you can’t have it at that price. (The laws were changed and they have to honor it even if the company printing the ad messed up).

Now I’m not expecting this to happen, but in the grand scheme of things, this is not only the truest fact of the thread, but the letter of the law. If X promises services or goods stated at a certain price, and Y purchases such goods and service, then Z cannot come back and say, oopsy, that was a mistake, the agreed price for goods and service is not what was originally quoted.

I don’t care who you are. In real life, if you’re buying anything from a bottle of ketchup, to a flat screen television, and the person selling you the item tells you the price tag on the item is a mistake on their part and you have to pay more because you have no choice, you might just go ahead and pay more than the originally stated price, but deep down inside, you know you’re not only right, but have both the moral and legal high ground to stand on.

But at the end of the day what irks me is not getting banned, not the points fiasco, not idiots like Bart, not the piss-poor way this all came about….none of it. What irks me the most is reading the last hastily constructed mass mail from a Snail rep in the game labeling people as violators and cheats of the game exploiting a bug. With the exception of the original hacker Phoenix mentioned earlier, noone here is a violator, cheat or exploited a bug. Did people take advantage of a good thing. You betcha. But they also did a month ago when McDonalds was selling Big Macs and quarter pounders for a dollar a piece. They may be gluttons and heart attacks waiting to happen, but that’s a far cry from being a violator of the fast food industry.

Realistically, this is what happened:

Everyone knew it was a bug, an error, a glitch, whatever. Those of you who claim that they thought is was a real sale are lying (or very very new to the game).

Are the people who exploited the bug scumbags? Of course not. It is just a game; exploiting a little bug is no big deal. And when the bug didn’t get fixed right away, some people probably felt that they had to go on exploiting it because everyone else did. No one wants to fall behind.

The correct and simple solution has been suggested many times – do a 48-hour-roll-back, take back all bans, send gifts to all those who did not exploit the situation. My guess is that Snail is unable to do the roll-back; otherwise they would have done it already, and this discussion would be over.

Then there are some who think they are entitled to keep what they bought during the “sale”.
Here’s a heads-up for you: the price tags were not wrong because of some mistake or error; they were wrong due to criminal activity. Not only are you not entitled to keep what you bought – you are not even entitled to get your money back.

Think about it – if a thief sells you a stolen rolex, and the real owner can prove that it is his watch, you will have to give it back and will not be refunded. And if you pretty much knew that you were buying a stolen watch, you will even be prosecuted yourself.

And with this “sale”, you knew that something was wrong. So just be grateful if you get your money back – it is more than you are entitled to.

looking at all the people complaining is laughable.

for one to use laywers go fer it. it will be your dim, and when you loose, you will need to pay court costs also.

now, lets get back to the point.

the top cheaters/Expoiters. whom have had screenshots and Videos of thier cheating and exploit abuse have finally been rightfully banned from the game.

Anyone caught in this ban hammer ignorant or not. have the right to be banned. and forfit all rights to a full refund.

all this bla bla bla whine whine whine… get over it. you were busted. if you love this game so much. start over. If you only wanted to cheat your way to the top. this is almost always the end result.

now to KONG and SNAIL.
IF the players you have banned are perma banned. I will start investing my money in to this game again. I have spent well over 20,000 on this game. I stopped purchasing points because of cheaters like Dice, miska, Galama, kaidHun and many others. and The inaction of the massive complaints compiled against them along with overwelming evidence. Now that they are banned, im now assured of fair play again, and fair competetition. This what i loved about this game.

In the future, please be more PROACTIVE in keeping this game fair and balanced. It will result in an increase of revenue.

Originally posted by Phoenix00017:

I cannot speak to any earlier hacking problems or support issues as those are within the developer’s domain.

Phoenix. Why should hacking and support issues not be any concern of yours? Leaning back in your easy chair, watch the money come in and neglect your clients that want an honest game is not only very short sighted, it is also extremely unethical. It is that kind of an attitude that lead to your current predicament.
Granted, you don’t have powers to resolve it but not caring about it and claiming innocence by simply passing the buck to Snail is unacceptable. In my view, if Kong does not even try to resolve the issues together with Snail,then Kong is part of the problem. Your clients expect you to act in their behalf. All of them. You are not supposed to put your head in the sand and by doing so become an accomplice of the hackers.
Snail, Kong and Honest players are are essential ingredients for a nice game. If any of those are allowed to forget about their moral duties you will get what you got now.
Every decent player in the game was rejoicing because most hackers got banned. Sure, you must find an acceptable solution for the glitch but maneuvering yourself into a position that will bring the hackers back is not the way forwards.
I don’t care how much they invested in their hacks. You cannot claim the right to hack because you paid for legit items. You cannot bribe your way into something as illegal as hacking unless their is somebody you can bribe. And in my world, people that condone it or look the other way are just as guilty.

There is a silver lining to your predicament. You got an opportunity to get rid of people that destroy your games. (you got more coming, they invaded other games as well).
Take a tough, honest stance, get rid of the alts and watch the game come back to it’s old glory.

Think about it – if a thief sells you a stolen rolex, and the real owner can prove that it is his watch, you will have to give it back and will not be refunded. And if you pretty much knew that you were buying a stolen watch, you will even be prosecuted yourself.

And with this “sale”, you knew that something was wrong. So just be grateful if you get your money back – it is more than you are entitled to.

Did you have some hidden insight as to any of this prior to Phoenix giving us the 411? Because until Phoenix posted, I for one did not know that a hacker cracked into Kongregate’s security measures, leaving the system vulnerable to the exploitation of purchasing points at a much reduced price for a full 2 days.

And your example of the stolen Rolex scenario only works if the buyer knew beforehand that they were purchasing stolen goods. This wasn’t a shady deal between 2 people in a dimly lit alley. People bought points from a legit business in the legit way that points have always been sold.

So if I walk into a Macy’s and buy a Rolex at a great deal from the person standing behind the cash register posing as the sales person and/or cashier, and are told afterwards by the store owner that I just purchased a stolen item from someone who was posing as a sales employee for the last 2 days, am I suddenly an accomplice in receiving stolen property and placed under arrest?

@loganVexx:

if you buy stolen goods knowengly or not in the USA. just being in possesion is a crime. and yes. you can be arrested and Prosecuted if your caught. The law does not care how you came in to possesion of it.

Store or not. you mentioned a person posing as a sales clerk. lets take it one step further,,

you go to macy’s and see a rolex. the sales person offers to sell you it for pennies on the dollar. you give him the money, and he tells you to meet him out back. you go out back, and he meets you there nad gives you the rolex. That is a crime.

same thing goes with if he pretends to be a sales man, but honestly does not work there. he sells you the rolex, even puts it in a macy’s bag, then pockets the money. It is still stolen unless he gives you a valid reciept for it.

please dont cry ignorance. look up our laws. or as many people say try googling "possession of stolen goods, is it a crime? " DERP!

@mogcabul

The law does not care how you came in to possesion of it.

The law doesn’t care? Where are you from, 1941 Germany?

Every day of the week, people unknowingly buy stolen goods through Craigs list, newspaper ads, pawn shops, etc, but in your world, the cops are standing outside waiting to place cuffs on these people because they are guilty of receiving stolen property. Right. Now lets get back to reality a bit.

It is still stolen unless he gives you a valid reciept for it.

In which anyone who bought points received a valid receipt sent in electronic form to HOG mail via Shop. A letter and receipt confirming the purchase of points through the shop from buyer to seller. I seem to recall getting those. I’m sure everyone who purchased points did as well.

And as I said before, there was no shady deal. When points were bought at the shop, not in “the back” as you say, I wasn’t greeted by Ratso who whispered into my ear, “psssst, hey Mac, meet me down in the HOG forums if you want a good deal on some points.”

There have been some wrong statements about the law here.

If you buy an item and someone else can prove that it was stolen from him, you will have to give it back, no matter what. If the guy who sold it to you is caught, you will probably get your money back; otherwise, you won’t. (Don’t know about insurances for such cases. Don’t care.)

Now, if that item was rather valuable, the law will try to find out whether or not you bought this stolen item knowingly. If they can prove that you did, you will be prosecuted.

Of course no one who bought HoG points during the “sale” will be prosecuted; there is no way to prove that you knew what was going on.

But this works the other way round, too – if anyone tried to sue, he would have to prove that he really really believed that a 99.9%-off-sale was legit. Good luck with that.

When will Kong or Snail release an answer to this?

Snail refused for years to do anything about other cheaters / hacks being used. It is interesting to me that some that topped up didn’t get banned and some did. I’ll admit that I did two surveys and used those kreds to top up. All or nothing you bastards.

I am frankly thrilled for the remaining players on Olympus that the accounts of Dice, Galama and Khaiduhn are gone. Some degree of parity and fairness can return to the game. I am willing to sacrifice my own several year old account if those guys are gone. The problem is, with Snail’s usual degree of incompetence, they left several alts for those three and they’ll just resume the botting/hacking again albeit from some weaker accounts. SSDD. Gala’s ranting in global using DrakeEmpress’ account while the bannings were happening was absolutely priceless and brought a huge smile to my face even though my account was banned. Justice was served albeit for the wrong reason.

Why do people even try to argue over this?
They already claimed the responsibility and only banned temporarily.

To people arguing “Rights to be banned” “Crime” – why so butthurt?

Originally posted by Phoenix00017:

We are not intending to ban anyone on Kongregate’s side – while you should have known that something was amiss, this was not criminal and none of you were the hacker responsible.

Every single one of you trying to claim the moral high ground in this are absolutely disgusting. Especially that twit bart, who despite having quit the game ~2 years ago necessitates ad hominem fallacies against him every time he posts.

Look at some of the names on the list. Some players who hadn’t exploited a bug or glitch in their years playing the game are on that list – Nanett the friendly grandmother for example – You know what that tells me? That of everyone who could abuse something like this, there’s maybe three players in the entirety of the history of Gaia who wouldn’t.

Lol @ the idea of a lawsuit against snail, compared to all the crap they’ve pulled over the years this – that isn’t even their fault – is relatively minor in damage to but a few players who had ample reason to quit before hand. Lest we forget going on 4 years of absolutely horrendous customer service, terrible decisions, and neglect. Not only that, but they’re a company based in China. I’m really doubting they care about any supposed infractions of US law.

Originally posted by kakashi870:

bart … necessitates ad hominem fallacies against him every time he posts.

Yeah, you are such a great guy. You didn’t even READ my posts. I said clearly that it was normal for everyone to exploit the bug, and that no one should be banned because of it.

While I am talking with multiple people at Snail, I’m afraid we don’t have a firm plan yet. They tend to prefer to conduct communication on their own forums, as many of our developers do (it’s easier for their customer management to not have to deal with separate forums for every platform that they are on). They posted briefly about the issue in their forum here — it doesn’t have any answers yet, but it shows that they are looking into it. I’m afraid I don’t have any information beyond this at this time.

I’m not going to try to get into legal debates with you guys. I’m not a lawyer so my opinion really doesn’t matter. All I can do now is try to help get things fixed as best as possible. We will be returning the kreds for the purchases made during this attack, hopefully today.

Sure i took advantage of a glitsch in the pointshop,
but im playing this game for over 3 years and in those 3 years i purchased a lot of kreds 10k +
Im not a cheater, botter, feeder. i dont have alts so i dont play at all at the moment.
Fix this problem and unfreeze us all, we are the people that pay for this game.

This was posted in Snail forums earlier today:
Greetings,

We understand the situation with Kongregate that occurred over this past weekend is a confusing one, and we want to provide an update with more information.

At this time we are conducting an investigation of every account affected, but have yet to decide on a final course of action. Due to the complexity of this issue, we want to make absolutely sure that the decisions we make are in the best interest of our players and the overall balance of the game.

We have received feedback from many of our players on various issues affecting Heroes of Gaia and while we have not been able to respond to all of these concerns, we do appreciate your input and acknowledge your concerns.

We are investigating these reported issues and working on a resolution for each and every one of them. That said, these types of issues do take time to fix and we ask for your continued patience.

We’d like to thank you all once again for your understanding. Further updates will be provided as they become available.

Thank you.

dice galama and khaidhun getting banned for this is like al capone going to jail for tax evasion.

NO Roll Back Snail !!!!! I commmend you on getting rid of people that have taken advantage of bugs , glitches in some cases for an extremely long time, Even if it took it hitting your pocket to finally take action against KNOWN cheaters in Heroes of Gaia that have a HUGE UNFAIR advanantge over other players because of their cheating, Botting And exploit abuse.

ALL HAIL SNAIL.great job keep it up!!!

sounds like some people are seriously butthurt. The simple answer is if you are not prepared to do the time then don’t commit the crime. People in TE have been stealing from Snail for years and cheating other players out of a level playing field. It’s about time they got their commupance.

Good Riddance to Galama=cheat

Originally posted by FearlessSoul:

NO Roll Back Snail !!!!! I commmend you on getting rid of people that have taken advantage of bugs , glitches in some cases for an extremely long time, Even if it took it hitting your pocket to finally take action against KNOWN cheaters in Heroes of Gaia that have a HUGE UNFAIR advanantge over other players because of their cheating, Botting And exploit abuse.

ALL HAIL SNAIL.great job keep it up!!!

Funny part is there are still more botters and exploiters in game that will now just abuse it more than they were, to become the new “top dogs”. And, snail will do nothing about them.

Originally posted by celticfairie:

This was posted in Snail forums earlier today:
Greetings,

We understand the situation with Kongregate that occurred over this past weekend is a confusing one, and we want to provide an update with more information.

At this time we are conducting an investigation of every account affected, but have yet to decide on a final course of action. Due to the complexity of this issue, we want to make absolutely sure that the decisions we make are in the best interest of our players and the overall balance of the game.

We have received feedback from many of our players on various issues affecting Heroes of Gaia and while we have not been able to respond to all of these concerns, we do appreciate your input and acknowledge your concerns.

We are investigating these reported issues and working on a resolution for each and every one of them. That said, these types of issues do take time to fix and we ask for your continued patience.

We’d like to thank you all once again for your understanding. Further updates will be provided as they become available.

Thank you.

Thanks for posting this. Having been banned I don’t have access to Snail’s thoughts on the matter. All the more reason why a Snail rep should be in the forum mixing it up with its posters on the subject as well as assisting Phoenix in the Q & A department. Very-very disappointing this hasn’t as of yet happened I may add.

I’m not gonna bullshit. Yes, I was a glutton and bought points for kreds. Approximately 174 worth that I had gotten a few years ago from doing some surveys. The first day I had bought points I hadn’t purchased a single item in the shop. I waited to see if a rollback, Snail mail, warning, whatever you will on the subject, but nothing came. And well into the second day when the Snail/Kong snafu was still up and running and still nothing was said on the matter, I bought a meager 20 lucky chest, and 4 ap packs. And I stopped because, well, it just didn’t feel right. The rest of the points I bought are still sitting in my account where I left them unused.

Between life in general, having one too many jobs and being the carefree sort, I never took HOG as a serious game to be played and mastered like some of those have. Hell, I can’t even remember the last time I had a Saturday off and participated in a freebie silver fest at cap battles. I’m also beginning to think the only real fun I have anymore is arguing with Bart down here in the forums. So whatever verdict Snail deems is appropriate I am fine with. Like I basically said in the other thread, it was fun while it lasted and I wish the next generation of HOG players the best of luck. And while I will monitor this thread from time to time out of curiousities sake just to see how this matter is once and forever settled, I doubt I will post my thoughts here again on the subject. Unless of course Bart really-really proves himself an ass in which I will more than likely pop in and drop an atomic bomb on his nuts.

Mel, Picasso, Totters, thanks for the memories. Please get someone to watch over the French Resistance within the guild. Like I said before, they are very much like lemmings and need constant supervision. CF, Nanners aka milkmaid, thanks for the foreplay. Sorry I didn’t let you two pass second base with me, but I’m saving myself for someone special. And the lot of you others I haven’t mentioned because there’s either too many good names too recall, or because you are asses and not worth mentioning, adios.

OAO

Many keep referring to theft. Nothing was stolen, and if so please show me the proof. every item in the game is nothing but codes. i can’t take my titan ring and put it on and goto work. Snail\Kong didn’t lose money, if fact i bet if they checked their revenues they would see they made money from the glitch. Many who would never or seldom buy points whipped out their credit cards in a second. As for rolling back the servers, it would only be fair if Snail actually stopped all the glitches and hacks that have been going on that many of the players have been reporting.

I will admit it…. I abused the system…After spending over 2000+ dollars on this game over the past couple of years I figured it was finally going to get ‘released to the wolves’ and let it go, since nothing has been done about the others cheating here. As for being banned…Look into my inventory and see all the stuff that is sitting there as I used next to nothing of what I bought. I will want compensation for the last money that I spent and for the pain and suffering this game has caused me over the past few years…Also since we are at it how about SNAIL gives a flying hoot about their own game and actually put GM’s in their. They would have shut down immediately if there was anyone on this game…The Ban had better be temporary since it is not my fault you had a hacker and I did what every person would do, take advantage of a GAME!!!…Thats why they put cheat codes into games, they know that people want to use them. If SNAIL or KONG ever wants to get money out of this player again then I suggest knocking out the items that obviously shoudnt be in my inventory…

“Greetings,

We understand the situation with Kongregate that occurred over this past weekend is a confusing one, and we want to provide an update with more information.

At this time we are conducting an investigation of every account affected, but have yet to decide on a final course of action. Due to the complexity of this issue, we want to make absolutely sure that the decisions we make are in the best interest of our players and the overall balance of the game.

We have received feedback from many of our players on various issues affecting Heroes of Gaia and while we have not been able to respond to all of these concerns, we do appreciate your input and acknowledge your concerns.

We are investigating these reported issues and working on a resolution for each and every one of them. That said, these types of issues do take time to fix and we ask for your continued patience.

We’d like to thank you all once again for your understanding. Further updates will be provided as they become available."

Whew, that tickles! All that hot air up my ass warms my colon. Thanks! Can I say ass in here?

Lmao by the time snail figures out what to do, the non kong players won’t even need compensation anymore. #SNAIL