Protector IV Discussion page 6

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Many aspects of this protector are cool, but as everyone agree this game is far too easy.

Since two versions the player get more and more power and possibilities while the maps and enemies stay the same, or are even nerfed (no slow/poison immune creature in example, and a smaller number of big difficult maps compared to Protector-RTT).

I hope the next protector will bring back some difficulty, giving new powers to enemies instead of always more to the player.

Here are some suggestions for new abilities :

  • return of Slow and Poison immune from earlier versions (only cripple immune is useless) → while people have succeeded more brutal methods, I’ve also easily beaten the game with the good old slow+poison combo with heroes levelling mostly specialism
  • Magic immune (can only be damaged by melee/ranged weapons) → needed to make melee less worthless
  • Arrow immune (can only be damaged by melee/magic weapons) → idem
  • Stealer (steals 10 gold if it succeeds to reach the exit) → if you can’t stop them spend gold instead of waiting for advanced units at the price of some lives
  • Saboteur (destroy a random defender if it succeeds to reach the exit) → if you can’t stop them, it’s better to have a lot of mid level defenders than one fully upgraded
  • Fire/Cold/Poison aura (each second the mod is adjacent to a defender of another element than the aura, this defender lose 1 power, if the defender power reaches 0 the defender is destroyed) → I always wondered why in most tower defense towers can’t be destroyed
  • Nature aura (10% each second to create a tree in each empty square adjacent to the mob position) → you need to kill them near the entrance or have to re pave often
  • Freezing aura (slow defenders in adjacent squares) → better to use long range units to kill them
  • Jumper (the first time the mob is damaged it jumps 4 or 5 squares forward in its path) → you need more than one screen of defenders
  • Stealthy (unnoticed by defenders more than 1 square away) → you cannot defend all the map with one range 3 archwizard
  • Adaptative (changes its elemental strength just after each time the mob is damaged to become strong against the last element having done damage) → you need to adapt and use 3 different elements
  • Reverse atunement (when the mob reach the middle of its life, its weak element become strong element and strong the weak) → better to use a third element to kill it
  • Phoenix (need to be killed two times, when destroyed a first time continue to walk as a new unit going back to full life and with all effects removed) → counter slow poison and super upgraded first defender at the same time
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How do you upgrade your basic units?

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well not really upgrading basic units,but your hero so that your basic units are much stronger

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I am having problems defeating the Idiots Storyline. Any hints or tips please? Thanks

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how do you get new units? like heros and other units. Thanks for the advice :P

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Can we make melee serve a purpose? I mean, let’s be serious, there isn’t one (in game) for melee. I feel like it was a token addition that was done more or less out of habit/ritual than having any real significance to a solid gameplay experience.

Let me start by saying that I am a fan of melee. That I prefer it over any and all forms of ranged combat/interaction. I should say that I REALLY wish melee was more useful and that I do recognize that it deals, generally, more damage and has more powerful abilities than non-melee.

That stated, we all know what happens if you place more than a couple of melee units down on virtually any map. The flying wave comes. Suddenly, your melee unit, even with a million gold, hacks to make it deal damage larger than the U.S deficit, and abilities beyond the scope the game designer could have imagined, is useless.

He stands there and watches the archer and mage attempt to cover his slack. At wave 7 or 8, every single melee unit and upgrade invested into one is power taken DIRECTLY from your ranged units. Some might argue that the lower damage deal by ranged units creates an inverse in this perception but this is not true.

I could spend 300 gold on melee units and then only 100 on ranged and be in a dangerous, very difficult situation.
I could spend 300 gold on ranged units and an additional 100 gold on ranged units and be fine regardless of what is sent at me. Anyone who has actually PLAYED the game knows this from experience. Ranged units can win maps by themselves without ever having a melee unit played by their side.
The same cannot be said about melee units.

Furthermore, ranged units, while dealing less damage, deal that damage all the time to everything, wave after wave until the game is over. Melee units deal their damage some of their time to some things on some waves, but not wave after wave, until the game is over. What this means in actuality is that the moderately less powerful ranged unit will constantly and consistently gain levels. It’s reliable. It will level for sure, where your melee unit will be guaranteed not to. It will catch up at these moments and then use the additional power to compete with the melee units once those units finally have an opportunity to do something. There is little to no risk in playing a magic or archer unit. But no one can doubt (unless they are mentally not sound) that there is inherent risk in playing a melee unit, for every melee unit played, each and every single time you play one. The risk is that it will do nothing- at all.

Melee units do just fine against ground forces without any serious boosts. Thereby, with skills that improve a melee units damage or capabilities while not addressing their general uselessness, it stands to reason that hero and character investment into anything that enhances melee performance is typically going to be a wasted and poor investment.

I hope that I have made my case clear. For a final example, consider the posts about winning the game with a single hero using a single unit. I will promise you all this: Not one of them did it with a melee unit.

Now that we understand that melee IS bad and WHY it is bad, here are some thoughts on making it matter in a game where it clearly doesn’t.

As a game designer myself, I figure these are some worthy suggestions that wouldn’t be difficult to code.

Ranged(Physical): Units deal low-average damage. Some unit types receive skills to increase damage to air or ground units. Some unit types receive skills to deal splash damage or provide elemental effects (physical archer can deal fire damage with fire arrows skill tree from leveling up). This provides variety and limitations. A main point of these skills is that they never get powerful, just useful. Rather than increasing damage with each level up, attack speed, or new, logical extensions of the starting point of the tree would surface. ie, fire arrows give element fire then become fireflash arrows, with a chance to stun, the ultimate being an AoE fire arrow attack which would mostly deal the average ranged damage to a group. Not tremendous ranged damage.

Magic: Units deal the lowest damage in the game, oftentimes inconsequential damage. Entirely based on skills. Skills received have tremendous power but long cool downs. Mages would have a very slow attack speed but when they finally do attack, the effects should be noticeable but VERY specific. Examples include summoning monsters that move along with enemy waves and attack the enemies. Or move against the waves. AoE teleportation of monsters (very long cooldown), multi hit high damage attack (think chain lightning from Dungeons and Dragons), Poison- that grows into an AoE rapid HP loss poison.

Melee: Units function similar to the way they currently do except that on some units some skill trees allow for aura’s and potential ranged attacks. Example: Land Mine- Unit can set a land mine trap. Next it can throw grenades which hit flyers and have a small AoE. Finally, rocket launcher. High damage single strike to any target at long range but at the increasing cost of longer and longer cool downs. Example 2: Commanders aura- The unit allows all units adjacent to it to deal a bonus % of damage. Next, more units are included and can attack faster. Finally, even more units are included and deal additional damage and have cool downs reduced even more.

If only certain heroes from certain factions had these and these units were tweaked for balance and faction relations influenced whether a hero would stay with you or not and whether you could get a hero or not, melee would be useful, if not needed as ALL unit types would rapidly find themselves needed to work together on many more maps. Also, a format for the waves would be great. When wave 1-9 is flying and wave 10, 11 and 12 are melee, then the rest are flying, in the current format you just pick all ranged/magic units…
With my above-listed ideas you pretty much still pick all ranged/magic units. Generally, that would be considered a bad format and with my ideas, that would be a bad map (because your archers and mages are gonna have trouble killing the ground units with their noticeably lower damage and weaker abilities and/or really long cool downs).

Sorry for the long post but I was growing so incredibly frustrated by playing a ranged TD game that happened to have some melee units thrown in that I realized I was wasting time being frustrated and could be more productive by providing my criticism in a format that is positive and hopefully, enlightening.

While I am at it, could we get more unique short stories for the quests rather than rotating between the same small handfuls for every faction? It makes a potentially great game feel cheapened by such an obvious repetition of a small amount of content.

Hope this finds you in good spirits and with an open mind. I’ll look for your e-mail to send this to your inbox, as well. Later.

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how do i find talent scrolls. i have tinkerer in the store bought it multiple times but its not getting replaced by any others

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I have it! I got it either on the Hydra Stage or the Root of All Evil stage. Those are about the only 2 I play and I’m pretty sure I was playing Root of All Evil. I have some very insane stuff in my game…I’ve been power leveling out of boredom, have one character with all stats maxed out, 117 Skills for my “overall hero”, and am working on maxing out another character.

Anyways, I have about 10 +500% luck potions, and decided to finally use one. Used a scroll to switch my maxed out char to have a thief (ranged basic) char, and used up about 8 speed potions and 4-5 power cheeses and such (I know at least a few power stacks—I’ll have to do some testing later, but I’m pretty sure I used more power cheeses/potions then I got credit for) and gained 256 items on Root of All Evil.

Oh, and if you’re wondering, the Craftsman is the following:

Creating Stuff is always a pleasure
Tiny Chance to Create an Item After a Quest

And, NO, I’m not confusing it with Crafty. Crafty says New Item, Craftsman doesn’t. Strange, I know, but there it is.

You can get all the Jones items on the Hydra stage, as well as the Protectomon’s. But, the items definitely level up for stages. I looked at all the items on my massive Root of All evil catch, and they all looked pretty good (though not as well as the “named” items from Jones, generally).

Now, if only I can get that Plainswalker scroll…the only one I’m missing…

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Adding to what LordScimitar has said: I just got the Craftsman scroll, from “The Root of All Evil”. Didn’t use any speed potions, luck potions, power cheeses, or any other item to get it, simply used 4 thieves with 3 gentleman’s dress rings on the hero (who is not even close to maxed out, in case you’re worried); for my own basic skills I’m around 40 total skill (so it is entirely possible to get this scroll early). These 4 alone held the fort for quite some time, but eventually I put down archwizards along the edges for warping.

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I’m pretty sure you can get Plainswalker on any quest – I just got it finishing a random normal quest while training for faction relations. If you go around completing quests with thieves + gentleman’s dress rings, you’ll get it quickly.

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Forgot to mention, plainswalker is the following:

You thrive on the open plains and know how best to survive there
1 additional life on all plains maps

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anyone know why my data got erased? I cleared my browser history in chrome and it was gone. why?

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In case anyone else is having a hard time finding info for this game, here is a wiki that looks pretty complete, it is in Japanese but Google translate fixes that. :)

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Hi. I’m trying to find out how speed works. I thought high speed = faster until I saw that my Augmented with speed 4 was going apeshit. Is low speed = better? Also what would be a simple DPS calculation formula?