[GemCraft chapter 0] all 512 waves

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We´re debateted about this idea separately in several threeds. Why´s why I created this threed.

Ours several first idea:
Do it in Beyond corruption MODE.
on map num. 1.

Firstly we want to commonly unlock all 512waves and had evidences about HP of waves. Specialy several last waves.

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I don´t thing it has sence to do all 512 with this conditions. I unloked 72th wave. On 72th has only 1496HP !!!!

I observed others waves and everytime they decresed HPs with next unlocked waves.

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i been slacking, only got to 136 yesterday lol, hp is about 10k

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I read the entire all 229 waves thread, it was awesome, but this is epic. You would have to repeat the level hundreds of times. And the level itself is extremely challenging. I would love to see you guys try(and maybe succeed.)

(By the way level one has R/O/Y which is key to get loads of mana)
(Try maxing out yellow mastery cyan mastery poison mastery etc… That way you’ll get some starter gems to make a prismatic.)

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ramaf, given that it’s beyond corruption mode, one has to be level 62 or higher to even start playing this, so many skill points will already be available. But those people who try this challenge already have all skills maxed out, and some hundreds of skill points left unspent. You might enter, of course, but yes, this challenge requires 247 replays of #1 beyond corruption.

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512 challenge is possible to beat (FOR SURE) whatever HPs(reasonable not like 30digit HPs) have several last waves, becouse you can build FP as high as you want. I´m increasing HP gems with 11grade gems, but If I do it for instance with 6grade gems then it cost less mana PER same FP grow.

(My computer is able to craete 9.5M FP up per 24hours this way)

I have just 109th wave and manaern is unimagenable. If I use all mana just for grow FP with 1grade gem, it could grow several cheaper, but even slower. …. and this is “just” 109th wave.. immagine 350th wave.. how fast manaearn could be.

Queation is NOT if is possible to beat all 512, but what time it spend.
We just need to decide how long time is needed to do it.

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well, you can’t load a game on kongregate, and this particular set of data is reported as being invalid by the game. Please use “pre” tags next time when you post such a wall of text, in order to preserve the text as is, so it will be able to be copied without possible errors. Like this:

Some text goes here. Any kind of text save will do. BOLD and italic must not work, as well as any other HTML tags inside, until “/pre” will appear.

edit: DAMMIT(((( textile works in “pre”! Reporting as forum bug. Testing Textile version of “pre”:
Some text goes here. Any kind of text save will do. *BOLD* and _italic_ must not work, as well as any other HTML tags inside, until "/pre" will appear.

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As someone said before. GC0 can be playable for ever.
I created any new conditions for this game just for myself. Just try to play it another way and make game a little bit harder.

There are two my ideas how I played it.


Maximize skills before reach first arcane:

have a fun with GC0
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On the contrary, there is a limit to how far even a supercomputer could go, provided the hp curve remains exponential.

R/O gems have a finite firing speed.
mana pool multiplier may grow, at most, at a linear rate.
so, effectively, the max firepower by any wave is quadratic. this isn’t noticed by us humans because we’re so slow, we fall way behind. But, eventually, the exponential wins. it CANNOT be played “forever”-in the sense there is a maximum possible wave a perfect player could ever reach.

I am not sure whether beyond corruption curve actually slowed down enough for a human player to beat 510 waves of beyond corruption using speedhack, though conner thought it did.
…an algorithm probably could do it, but manual clicking would take longer than a human lifespan to get enough firepower to win.

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“for ever” I´m strongly persuaded that last n.78 level can be play over one Year by human (teoreticaly).
I “spent” 19days for this round. Aplication worked over night. I let played just till cca 113wave. 12M max mana. BUT. I used 6grade gems for supergaming.

Just immagine if someone put YOR intro traps earlier and make supergameing with 1grade gems. (higher attack per spend MANA, but lower FP-build PER TIME.) AND

If someone with powerfull CPU let run 4500monsters all the time NOT till 1500 like me.

Around 113 is easy to have cca 16M MAX mana maybee even more. and have 100M FP. even more.

We can immagine 200wave and still build FP from mana… I thing on this wave with 1grade gems for building FP it can be aroun 1B FP maybee… It is possible to counted if is possible to reach so high FP. I thing is possible.

I´m not sure, but let say 1grade FP for building FP instead of 6grade… let say 6times slower… then we have 5months just to reach 113wave…. This´s like 20% (even less) of this round if you don´t want to break this work.

Around 100th wave. I needed for next 4waves whole 24hours working…. game was slower and slower, becouse of tons of MANA.

I needed 2hours JUST for summoing ONE wave with 17grade gems, but I had mana to anger with 21-22th grade without any significantly loose of MANA. If I should used 22grade gems for arguing that EXACTLY:
22-17=5 5square = 32 !!!! 32times 2hours. !!! = 64hours for summoing only ONE wave.. Only around 100wave.. and now Immagine income of MANA aroound 200wave and possible grade gems for summoing without any scare of lack of MANA.. !!

I´m definitely sure that this last round can be play by human over one Year. (if flash or webrowser don´t fall down)
Can be playable even much longer time.

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normal only – did and passed, if I’d do better I’d do it easier this time – I didn’t use L/O traps while being low wizlevel until second arcane – me bad.

maximize skills before 1st arcane – easy, just do #1 endurance and #12 endurance (that one is x3).

about 512 waves of BC – can’t tell actually, never played BC at all :)

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Are you sure that fp is only around 1 Billion for wave 200 supergemming with grade 1s? Because with a relatively tiny mana pool (400K I think), I was able to get 200K fp. supergemming with grade 6s. So with 16 million max mana, since multiplier is directly related, that would be … 8 M per round if you are solely working on supergemming with grade 6s…sounds to me like more than 100 M fp.

Using grade 1s, that’s more than 30x cheaper but 8x less powerful or so – not sure of the exact numbers, but let’s just assume 3x more fp per mana spent. That’s 2.4 B fp assuming you will keep the mana pool constant, which you won’t. So you say 16 mil. mana by wave 113 and 300 M fp. Could you be at wave 262 and 40 something mil. mana, then? And if you just use just grade 1s for supergemming that’s 60 M * remaining 250 waves = 15 Billion fp by wave 512. That’s probably about the limit of fp possible.

So this might be able to conquer monsters with 20 trillion hp. in BC. Do they go higher than this?

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GC0 is back with another way to finish.
This time I used just 9 maps to maximize all skills.
I jumped form level 50 over 85, to 560. I´m clearly sure is possible to get on 3M+ exp. from even lower initial level.

I could jump from 50th level to 200+. I played andurance mode and I reached 10K exp and almost die, but suddenly I had enought mana to start max. RO. I started to be invictible, but it turn out I played 1.15version. :( my max. mana was block on 78K. Means easily raising EXP was gone. This´s why I let it reach just 300K. and then finish it in next round.

68 rounds has been used. I think is possible to has around 18 less. (skip time and swarm modes)

Next time I´ll try to use for this just 6 maps.


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Honza, I went from level 28 to 140something with just level 1 endurance. It may be possible with just 4 maps.

Okay, so this is NOT my idea, I read this on the Armorgames forum. This was ConnerC’s idea, and he beat a wave a 1.2 tril. health with just a 50K gem. But this could easily be beaten.

This is for the highest score possible – use the Flash Beam shrine and grade 18s(?) to weaken giant monsters of 124,999/125,000 of their health. So if they have 1×10^15 (1 quadrillion) health, that would leave 8 billion. If you use a higher grade, maybe grade 20s could weaken them to just 1 billion.

Probably the best for this is either Heroic or Beyond Corruption mode – both say that there are no giant monster waves, but there are in the bonus waves.

Pros and cons for each:
Heroic – fewer waves, and the chances of getting a giant wave at the end are small. However, since there are only 20% (?) more monsters, the score is decreased to 5/6 of what it would be in normal mode.
Beyond Corruption – more waves, but there are 100% more monsters. This is good maybe if you can find a wave of 4 giant monsters, but that will give half the score of a 2 giant monster wave. Still, this is probably the way to go, because this allows as many waves as you want, and if you can double the mana pool in the time it takes to get here and anger more, then this is the best.

Is it possible to get an ultra-high score with this method – will your score be greater than the last level?

Some statistics on this:

The numbers the game says are wrong – here are the numbers according to ConnerC
Grade 1s – drains 1/8 health, leaving 7/8
Grade 5s – drains 1/2 health, leaving 1/2

Maybe it deals with some exponential function involving the square root of 2?


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My opinion about it is….

There is NO problem shoot up some heavy summoned monsters, but neccessary time to get enought multiplier (manapooling) and time to create high grade of gems..

My limitation of my 3rd 228 challenge focused for EXP was … summoing of these gems.
20th grade gem consume 16hours nonstop building by aplication. !!!! (If you use him just onetimes… it is like usless. not big different.) If you compare him with 15th grade.. ok is much more better, but NOT so much… This different is no so much excaiting like 10times more EXP.. nothing like this…

If you want to see significantly bigger EXP different, you must use 20th grade all the time… but you it is NOT like 100times moere EXP. - but neccesary time is too much.

This´s problem… you can use crash beam, but no in 78th map. Any another map allow lower manaincome then in 78th. lower manaincome — means lower multiplier — to EXP..

My conclusion of this is that in this case even you use this methode and use same time TIME like for 78th maps… YOU´LL GET LOWER EXP
This´s my idea… It is no rule. I didn´t couted exactly, but my conclusion.

For instance… I did in map. N.2 - cca 23M EXP maybe in 2hours …. and I had just around 7times 11grade gems in towers nothing else… all my EXP did MANAmultiplier. and 12th grade of gems to summoing. (round just 2times summ. per wave) till cca 60th wave.. then I destoryed all my gems to finish this endurance mode.

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Level ID#73 has 61 tiles, meaning 2/3 the mana pooling of #78. It is R/O/L. It also has a 3x flash beam, and Beyond Corruption with slower hp curve – I’ve heard there are giants.

Does anybody know anything about the hidden levels? These are the ones that are unlocked after you beat heroic for all the levels up to the arcane guardian. I’ve unlocked #4 and #6, but if anybody has any information about these others, could you take a screenshot and post it here?

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Hmm. Using as small amount of maps as you can, to get maxed skills? One just has to get level 8 within normal modes on those maps, and more will only be necessary if a 3x sudden death modes on them will fail to provide enough boost to get level 16. I wonder though, this isn’t easy to fit in 6 maps for level 16. But I might try it eventually, this is a challenge, though a small one.

Note also that having Enhanced Pool skill should help loads in this challenge, starting mana for normal modes allows better angering of initial set of waves.

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Enhanced Pool will not affect starting mana, if I remember correctly.

I got to level 8 with only 3 maps without replaying levels. Right now, I have a level 14 save-file that has only played 3 maps on Normal and Sudden Death. I have not replayed any levels so far. 3 maps would be the limit, definitely.

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6 maps to maximize all skills challenge has been complete in 56 rounds.

I jumped from 38level to 268. (I didn´t want more.)


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I have another idea for normal mode – maybe ID#73:

Say you angered a last wave to about 3 mil. points per monster, and they have more armor than the max damage for ROC traps. And you killed a bunch, but you still have about say 150 on the board doing nothing but gaining mana. So if you have that many, and because of doubling, you will have 200-250 targets, so say 200, that’s about 100 mana pools per minute – say 10 mins. per minute in a game, if you let it run for 20 hours with a weight on M or 4, that’s about a 600x multiplier over those 20 hours. So 150 monsters x 3 mil. = 450 mil. on board x 600 extra multiplier = 270 bil. This means that you can gain 324 billion score every day by simply idling. Anger them to 5 mil. a monster, that’s 540 bil.

Now, try combining this with the flash beam strategy. If you use 25 tril. hp giants, and you anger with grade 15s, I could imagine angering a wave of 50K giants 31 times to achieve this amount! This is also a 1000 x multiplier to score. The drawback? You need to first compress the wave of 660 + initial giants over 15 or so spaces to use the flash beam, so about 40 per square. You need to use grade 1 gem bombs. But the 31 angers is almost exactly 1000x the score. This means … 30-40 mil. score per monster maybe? So 3.2 trillion points per day running! Can be done with fewer angers, of course, but this is definitely the way to get the all-time highest score!

So anger with 15s, anger 31 times to get 1000x initial score.
Grade 16s, 29 times for 1243x initial score plus 2/3 the health of the 31 grade 15s, but 40 more monsters.
Grade 17s, 27 times for 1500x initial score plus 4/5 the hp of the 29 Grade 16s, but 40 more monsters.
Grade 18s, 27 times for 2000x initial score and about the same health as the 15s. Or 25 times for 500 Bil. per creature and 1727x initial score, which may be beatable by using the flash beam only twice per creature.
Grade 19s, 24 times for 2142x initial score and about 500 bil. per creature.
Grade 20s, 20 times means 1771x and 50 bil. per creature, 25 times is the absolute maximum, with a 3276x multiplier to score. Plus, if you can use grade 20s, you might be able to use the flash beam twice per creature, so they’ll have health in the 8 digits when you’re done.

Gemcraft is better than Anti-Idle.

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Sorry about the double post – I completely forgot about experience shrines. If you can have an experience shrine with 3 charges, that means that the value per mana pool is more than multiplied by 10x! Each charge gives xp worth 3x the number of creatures on board up to 100 creatures. So this brings it up to 2 trillion score per day for 3 mil. monsters! Combine flash beam and experience shrine and grade 20s, and that’s 50 TRILLION PER DAY!!!

And Mana tap shrines would help slightly too. Map 49 has two flash beams totaling 4 charges, but a lot of transmuting is required.

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4 maps to maximize all skills challenge has been complete in 45 rounds.

WAY of redistribute of points:
6 hours. I´m not sure.
Firstly just FOCUS- to max.- and FOR EVER,
then some points to TOWERBUILDER, TRAPSPECIALS, MANAGAINmastery – redistribute for every kind of round,
then take all of these 3 and start to put into: REPLENISH + DUAL gem MASTERY- REP. has higher priority for points. rest of points to MANAgain.
REP. to MAX. dual gem just around 7lev… MANAgain try to lev.9 rest to FORGE … and this´s 31.lev. no more points.
RED MASTERY is VERY immporten, but I didn´t have unloked him.

I jumped from 31level to 230. (I didn´t want more.)
I must be satiesfeid with RO maxed at 8.4multip, 460FS 3 target… coudln´t be more. I didn´t have unlock RED mastery.

I just played regular endurance and waited for every every 1400 mana to create a few O-1gems and combine them with Ogems from trap, which coused 2times higher income for this gem. When I had on any of gem 8.4 I started to put several 1g-R to get on 15range, then I had just 3 weak RO and another 4O.. then I just improved these RO till max.. and then I could start to anger 8times 1g. gem… and when I had 3RO maxed. I started to anger with 6grade gems. (9times) next waves I used 7grade gems… … then I had several RO-“maxed”
then anger was for 11grade gems… then I finished ROmax. in everytrap. (I didn´t care abour ROY. Probably It was immposible to has higher income from ROY.)

Then I filled all map with tower and 2color 7grade gems… and just manamalooling all the the time… tilll over 500K (1K start)
summoning were later with 12.. and at last 13th grade gems…
Arguing were for 10K-20K and occasionly for 100K HP.
and then I just destroyed all gems for finish on 4M EXP. - very easy.

Actually I suppose to harder climbing, but I all the time immproved my strategy. It wasn´t hard.
I thing same condition for this challenge but with 3 maps is probably possible, but I´m not sure.


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3 maps to maximize all skills challenge has been complete in 32 rounds.
I thought it is immposible. It looked like during leveling.

I jumped from 21 level to 200+. I decided to almost don´t use REPLENI.. and I had to used around 5level of DAULGEMmas. Rest a few point ware put into MANAgainmastery and FORGE. It worked. (FOCUS just level 9)

I improved tactics in last endurance. I pust some 3gr. dualgems into 5towers and I summoned just 3times 1gr. gems. all the time.. and all MANA to improveing managems in trap.


2 maps challenge? DEFINITELY not possible. I´ll NOt try it. I needed even here strongly exp from gadges. I let several game just run to get badge even with lower EXP.

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With 1 map, I have level 16 … so, I’m trying to gain levels, but it’s hard to …

EDIT: Now Level 18…1 map. 2 maps DEFINITELY possible.