No fun in this PvP...Sanct rules

26 posts

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Fighting in PvP always engage battle against Priest with Sanct.

PvP is turning in Sanct Sanct Sanct..
Where’s fun?
Bah

 
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Deadly Blow, Purge, a lizard, etc. And there is an entire thread about this already.

 
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No qq please, top pvp is all rangers, hardly any priests. now shush

 
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sanc is not a problem in the top tier, because there are soooo many solutions(and rush is soooo powerful)
but for the mid-low tier where sanc are available(being an easy MoH card) but counters are not(you notice how all those cards are not in MoH store?) it is a problem.
it’s not a matter of a card being extremely op, but a card op for its accessibility. You rarely see ppl cry about godlike xxxx being OP, when they all are (in a game where most ppl are using epics with few leg).

 
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Totally agree with deathvonduel. I’ve never seen someone crying about armageddon: high cooldown, damn rare, not always usefull, but can really kill 10+ cards xD
Instead, they created sanc: the only real counter to that is deadly blow, assuming that you are not sancting an Augustus…
But anyway, sanc forced the game to rush: noone, really noone can affoard to have 5-6 creatures down with a priest in the other side. Deadly blow cd is 3, so it is not always ready, same for purge (which is an horrible card btw), so all what you can do is rush or play priest…or just lose.
This game is getting unbalanced every day more. I remember when games were filled with tactic, now it’s just a drop mif and hope for a crit….so stupid.
Actually, the only games I really love are showdown (because if enemy is known for using rush, he automatically lose) and sealed, since you cannot use biggies and broken combinations, that is really just simple fun.

 
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Originally posted by shin89:

Totally agree with deathvonduel. I’ve never seen someone crying about armageddon: high cooldown, damn rare, not always usefull, but can really kill 10+ cards xD
Instead, they created sanc: the only real counter to that is deadly blow, assuming that you are not sancting an Augustus…
But anyway, sanc forced the game to rush: noone, really noone can affoard to have 5-6 creatures down with a priest in the other side. Deadly blow cd is 3, so it is not always ready, same for purge (which is an horrible card btw), so all what you can do is rush or play priest…or just lose.
This game is getting unbalanced every day more. I remember when games were filled with tactic, now it’s just a drop mif and hope for a crit….so stupid.
Actually, the only games I really love are showdown (because if enemy is known for using rush, he automatically lose) and sealed, since you cannot use biggies and broken combinations, that is really just simple fun.

This is silly, rushes were greatly strengthened by 1.2 and werewolves. 95% of the top 64 being rush decks is not because sanc is so horrible and OP, but because rushes are fast and rushes get results. These days people playing against priests don’t put 4-6 high damage creatures in a lane and expect to simply crash through, so generally speaking not more than 2-3 creatures should ever be lost to a sanc use, and the person loses the sanc card in question which could be said to be worth one creature itself.

Aside from sanc, priests are a very weak when it comes to pvp, so the fear of sanc is mitigated by the lack of fear of anything else in the priest arsenal.

 
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Originally posted by Hotshot2k4:

This is silly.

Thanks for giving an introduction to your post. :)

In 2v2 we encountered a top tier rush deck duo that killed us both end of turn 4 (they starting), and my collegue and I (both level 48) play a rather strong anti-rush, i.e. winning 9 out of 10 games against it. Where is the balance in a game, that allows to inflict more than 80 Damage in the first 4 turns?

Rush is op. Because Rush is more op than sanc doesn’t mean, sanc is not op. (Already said.)

I had a nice game vs a priest, where a fenris charged in, ending up in front of me with 11/2 or so. I decided to use the deadly blow on something else, cause I could kill him with vigilance. Got blocked, next round a sanc came and I lost 2 turns later.

Another match was a Darius, fenris and a Heroic cavalry (1/7) charging in. I got rid of Fenris and Darius using skills and vigilance spear and put a vigilance spear in front of the cavalry. Next turn sanc came. I lost all spears and later the game.

I could give several more of these stories. I also saw priests giving up after I blowed their sanc. But anyway: Have-a-counter-ready-or-loose is NOT the base of balance. Playing-super-OP-rush-to-beat-OP-sanc is also NOT the base of a balanced meta. As a ranger I don’t care much about sanc, cause rush forces me to play 3 deadly blows anyway. Ironically the best option VS rush is rush itself. It is therefore not surprising, that rush is strengthened more and more to ridiculous forms, thus breaking the balance further and further. Maybe the new toxic swamp will help or a new rule that prohibits damage to the hero for the first 3 turns or doubling the bonus on life points (and also sudden death). To be honest, this game will not last another year, so don’t worry about sanc. Changeto priest and laugh about it. ^^ “If life gives you lemons…” you know.

 
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Gamb, I don’t understand, you’re offering me stories where sanc changed the course of battle. Just about any card worth using in pvp can change the course of battle, especially if you get crits or blocks involved. In both of your examples it sounds like you made some poor choices, unless you simply did not know you were playing vs a priest and that sanc exists. I have in the past, and still do agree that sanc is OP purely as a card. However, the vast majority of the other skills priests have are useless in 1v1 or 2v2, especially against a rush. You seem to think that it is the priests’ place to be useless in pvp if you have such an issue with the existence of this card.

 
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Originally posted by shin89:
noone, really noone can affoard to have 5-6 creatures down with a priest in the other side.

Yeah, because righteous judgment wouldn’t clear that line. If you at any point, even pre-sanctuary, were placing 5-6 units in single lane, you’re bad player who deserves to lose.

Originally posted by Hotshot2k4:

Aside from sanc, priests are a very weak when it comes to pvp, so the fear of sanc is mitigated by the lack of fear of anything else in the priest arsenal.

One of those days I’ll dust off my old US2 account and join equalizer just to show you (and every other noob who claim that priest is weak) how terribly wrong you are. From inspire that allows me to swamp field with kings/Sarya/judge Dredd to righteous judgment which easily clears entire lane of howlers/M&M/Lucius (while I have inspired Bael in another), to sacred touch dispelling those pesky petrifies, priests have much better cards than you think.
I’ve said it countless times, but looks like I have to say it again: don’t judge class by arena dominated by wallet warriors copying easiest solution possible, because they’re too stupid to come up with something innovative. Judge it by equalizer. Give me VIP 10 and I’ll bring priest to top 1 in no time. Hell, top 1 guy on GameFuse’s EU server was priest with 94% win rate and more points than top 1 on Kong EU at the time of merge. That’s how good priest can be in 1v1 arena if you back him up with enough money (and maybe some skill).

You know how I counter sanctuary? With one of the most underrated cards ever: King Asterion. He has 17 hp and only 1 attack, so he’ll never suicide on sanctuary and his counter (2 dmg + stun) pierces sanctuary’s protection. So not only protected unit takes twice more damage than Asterion reflects on himself, but also cannot act for 50% of sanctuary’s duration. See, I don’t QQ, I pew-pew.
And now for the third time in this post, so maybe it’ll get into at least some of your dense skulls: if your entire line suicides on sanctuary, you were using units with attack >= 50% hp, which means righteous judgment would wipe that line clear. Which means priest could accomplish exactly same goal even if sanctuary didn’t exist. Which in turn means sanctuary is not a problem, your gameplay is.

 
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Equalizer is not the same game at all, Seizen. There are no crits, and hero HP is at 50. This nerfs rushes greatly, and allows for other classes to play intelligent decks instead decks that work as fast as possible. The more godlike cards you own, the more sense priest makes as a class, but very few priests that I see play inspire anymore in 1v1. In fact I don’t think I’ve met one this season. Actually, I’m not sure if I met a non-rushing priest at all this season, besides that guy in the top 8 or 16 or whatever, and I’m currently top 50 on the server and just outside of top 64 overall I think.

 
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I’ve always found it funny how people complain about tactics that are used because they’re effective.

“You can’t use that rifle, it’s too cheap!”
“Only noobs build that tree, try using a real one!”
“You stupid noob rusher, use a real deck!”

Always while getting their nose wiped. Anything to make you feel better, I suppose.

 
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Originally posted by Slayzer:

I’ve always found it funny how people complain about tactics that are used because they’re effective.

“You can’t use that rifle, it’s too cheap!”
“Only noobs build that tree, try using a real one!”
“You stupid noob rusher, use a real deck!”

Always while getting their nose wiped. Anything to make you feel better, I suppose.

The problem is, its TOO effective for being so easily available, especially against warriors. Rangers have disinfo, deadly blow, Mages have petrify, and even Priests can just use another Sanct against it. But warriors? Nope, all DD cards, nothing to counter it. It needs some kind of nerf, even if its just a turn increase in CD, just to give u a little more time

 
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Originally posted by Hotshot2k4:

Gamb, I don’t understand, you’re offering me stories where sanc changed the course of battle. Just about any card worth using in pvp can change the course of battle, especially if you get crits or blocks involved. In both of your examples it sounds like you made some poor choices, unless you simply did not know you were playing vs a priest and that sanc exists. I have in the past, and still do agree that sanc is OP purely as a card. However, the vast majority of the other skills priests have are useless in 1v1 or 2v2, especially against a rush. You seem to think that it is the priests’ place to be useless in pvp if you have such an issue with the existence of this card.

I think, I made myself pretty clear. Poor choices maybe, maybe a bit of bad luck as well, but the fact is, that almost all of my cards actually were worse than useless just because of sanct, and only 1 card in my entire deck could have avoided my death. This is just overpowered (by definition). Sanc does not change the battle – it wins the battle. Just as a mifzuna does with +10 attack and an op crit.

It is one thing to play carefully because of Armageddon, Righteous Judgement, Mifzuna or Swift Raid to come, but totally another to be vitally dependent on 1 single card to not loose against another single card. (Although that is not entirely correct, because apart from sanct there must be a unit on the field, but nonetheless.) I learnt how to deal with sanct. But I still remember the frustation when sanct was new and everybody played sanct-rush, until everybody else turned into rangers to counter it with deadly blow. It doesn’t matter if the rest of the cards are useless or not. make a new class and give it a single skill: CD8 – You win the game, and that class would be op, wouldn’t it? We are not discussing priests, we are discussing sanct. Any other class skills do not touch this topic at all.

 
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If you see a priest on the other side over like lv 30-35, dont invest in only 1 lane and dont buff your units on summon, wait to see which get through. sometimes it is better to let a sanc unit past and summon at its back. units like mynx that dont attack on move will get hurt less if you put them out front. sylvi will still burrow under i think. flying units. thats just for warriors. others have stuff like fog and smoke bomb to cut a turn off of it, deadly blow /frenzy, purge, pet, etc etc.

 
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Originally posted by kevinke6:

No qq please, top pvp is all rangers, hardly any priests. now shush

This post needs to be in every thread.

 
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Originally posted by Seizan_7:
Originally posted by shin89:
noone, really noone can affoard to have 5-6 creatures down with a priest in the other side.

Yeah, because righteous judgment wouldn’t clear that line. If you at any point, even pre-sanctuary, were placing 5-6 units in single lane, you’re bad player who deserves to lose.

Oh, man, you really said this xD
Yes, I’m such a bad player that I was rank 2 in Snowy Fort. But let’s not talk about my ranks, I prefer to underline your stupid sentences. Rush rules, so you need vigi. I cannot play more than 2-3 creatures total vs a priest, since almost all my creatures have vigilance, which allows me to win 95% rush decks. But many other players that try antirush cannot win vs a priest normal/priest rush because of that. Righteous judgement attacks only 1 lane, sanc can affect both.
Another stupid thing you said is that I should fear a judgement. Man, I play 3-4 creatures to block a big creature, not in an empty lane. Of course you don’t use Judgement if you lose more than your enemy, so, are you really that blind???
If I’m a bad player (which can be) you surely are joking or an even much worse player, for such statements.

Also, werewolves and crit on heroes forced the meta to rush. But adding a card that kills you if you don’t rush doesn’t help too…. I did not say that sanc forced everyone to rush. Many good players understood that 1.2 cards were perfect for rush decks and that rush decks are really strong. But many other good players still wanted to build normal decks. And sanc is a good reason not to do that. Vs a priest you basically cannot even have more than 3-4 creatures TOTAL in the battlefield. Now the only decks that can affoard to play high cd cards are showdown decks and….priest rush decks xD

Most important thing is: 1 card should be worth 1 card, or it should have conditions which allows it to be worth less or more.
Armageddon can kill a lot, but it has high cd, high rarity, kills your own creatures. Righteous Judgement has a lower cd and lower rarity, but still it can kill many creatures and still can kill your own creatures. Sanc has low cd, low rarity, 0 backlashes and still the opportunity to kill 3-4 cards easily. it’s like protect 120.0. Protect is definitely not OP, because damage does not disappear or reflect, YOU take it instead of the creature. Sanc should cancel damage only, or last 1 turn only, instead it’s just Judgement and Protect all together without those cards weaknesses….
It’s even better than Guardian Angel, which should be the ‘strongest’ priest card, as Armageddon or Swift Raid… (with ‘strongest’ I mean the one with the bigger effects)

 
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Well said. I think this sums everything up. Any more comments from a game dev / money shark / whale or can we close this topic (again)?

 
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Seriously this again? If you are losing because of sanctuary vs priests and can win almost anything else you have nothing at all to complain about. Lil notes about sanct. It needs a target to land on and if you go all in to kill a creature and it gets a block and lives yes it will be sancted. Go look at how many priests you see in pvp if you are losing to them suck it up they are maybe a 1 in 10 in upper pvp if you cannot handle seeing them that often I dunno what to say to you.

 
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Sanc is at most the fourth biggest problem in pvp:
1. Merger
2. Big spenders
3. Rush
4. Sanc

I see no point to restarting this discussion.

 
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Maybe you don’t understand. I win and I’m in top ranks, but still sanc is not balanced. Cards should be balanced almost always, I’m not complainting about my personal matches. Rangers are strong because they have many viable skills, but none of those skills are OP. I personally play mage and no mage skill is OP either. No card should be OP at all, that’s why I complaint about sanc.

About Stunna post, well, merge is a welcome, since Snowy Fort was too easy and queues were terribles, cancel that.
Big spenders…sometimes you can beat big spenders, most of the time you lose. Get used to that, after all they are paying for us too, cancel this point also.
Rush. Well, check 1.3 mage and priest spells. They will be really nice vs rush. Rush won’t disappear, but won’t rule this much anymore. Cancel this point in 2 weeks, when 1.3 appears.
So, here we are, talking about the only problem left in your list =)

Last thing. Priest is the hardest class to play, requires skill and high cd cards. Priest does not need a buff, average priest player’s brain does. And whatever you can say, OP cards should not exist, for any reason, cards should always be balanced.

 
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Originally posted by Stunna:

Sanc is at most the fourth biggest problem in pvp:
1. Merger
2. Big spenders
3. Rush
4. Sanc

I see no point to restarting this discussion.

1. rush
2. rush
3. rush
4. rush

and its going only worse…. i tried playing a few matches, and all of them were rush. (I play rush myself)

about a month ago some ppl at least tried controls

 
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1. Merger = 2.
2. Big spenders = 3.
3. Rush >>> 4.
4. Sanc

However, I really like how shin explains it. It’s the same way I see it and in one of the previous threads I left several ideas o how to balance this card out by giving it at least one disadvantage, like the unit dying afterwards or not being able to attack. That would make a lot more sense than just creating a killing aura for free.

 
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Actually, having just put my antirush deck against sanc, here is one reason why sanc should be nerfed in pvp… it is BORING to fight against. Even with 30 cards, fights can go decently fast IF people play units. However, sanc means don’t play all your cards in order to not bite it against sanc → fights can take forever. Every commonly available slower unit that can break a stalemate is either hard countered (heroic/rage/faith unit dies) or soft countered (unit has 3-4 health after two turns, probably dying to whatever is sanced anyway).

Mage v mage (antirush) is quite boring too, but at least petrify/deep freeze don’t stop you from playing units.

 
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What should I say….I feel that Gambaro and Stunna completed what I missed to clear out. Sanc is wrong under many points of view, boring matches are a good point as Stunna said, since it’s a game and it should entertain and a flaw would be expected, as Gambaro said, since all the other cards with similar effects have flaws.

And to all the ones that state that priests needed a buff…First: a buff is not an OP card; Second: top players are not priests even with sanc….

Thank you GameFuse for adding a card that made this game more boring without balancing classes at all

 
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Warriors are worst against sanctuary… buff a powerful card, priest sancs creature, get killed yourself!! i mean what kind of game is this where warriors lose everything to Deadly blow,Petrify,Sanctuary and even DD? also warriors also dont have any paralysing or instant kill skills like flash bomb, petrify,deadly blow only warriors have is slash as a DD which is also hard to collect!!!