purposes for balancing classes

atm mages have high advantages compared to other classes. Especially on higher levels with many enchants on the weapons.
Class motos are: Enjoy your stick, suck your gun/bow and RIP sword.

Mages have also advantages on attributes, because they can concentrate on INT/DEX with maxcrit effect (305DEX) and good sp as bonus. Guns need DEX/SPEED/and decent INT for good sp while Swords even need STR/SPEED for attack +305DEX and some decent INT.

KingK really needs to do something about this, or we’ll have a complete mage-game.

Some ideas for balancing classes are searched.
Here some possible purposes:

- Mages enchants give only +4 instead of +5. (would be fair I think but hard to realize because it will make most people angry to get weaker)

-Better enchant bonus for guns and swords. Like 5mage/7sword/+8.5 or +9gun

-Another way might be fair with a blockchange. For all bosses big hits: mages block stays as it is / Big hits for guns earliest on 13th hit and for swords earliest on 15th. (Important: for mixed classes the block also depends on the weapon for not giving mages an even better advantage)

Just some ideas, they might not be perfect but something has to happen. Please post your Ideas here if you have some good ones about this theme!

Originally posted by Mamaa:

atm mages have high advantages compared to other classes. Especially on higher levels with many enchants on the weapons.
Class motos are: Enjoy your stick, suck your gun/bow and RIP sword.

Mages have also advantages on attributes, because they can concentrate on INT/DEX with maxcrit effect (305DEX) and good sp as bonus. Guns need DEX/SPEED/and decent INT for good sp while Swords even need STR/SPEED for attack +305DEX and some decent INT.

KingK really needs to do something about this, or we’ll have a complete mage-game.

Some ideas for balancing classes are searched.
Here some possible purposes:

- Mages enchants give only +4 instead of +5. (would be fair I think but hard to realize because it will make most people angry to get weaker)

-Better enchant bonus for guns and swords. Like 5mage/7sword/+8.5 or +9gun

-Another way might be fair with a blockchange. For all bosses big hits: mages block stays as it is / Big hits for guns earliest on 13th hit and for swords earliest on 15th. (Important: for mixed classes the block also depends on the weapon for not giving mages an even better advantage)

Just some ideas, they might not be perfect but something has to happen. Please post your Ideas here if you have some good ones about this theme!

It’s already a mage game.

Also, wouldn’t it be better to change it so that the enchants grant less than a 0.6% SD boost? The +5 for each enhance only affects the Attack rating.

Thanks for taking the effort to bring up this issue again, it means a lot. Time and again people have tried to bring this up, only to get shown the hand.

When it comes to global competition such as Mystics, Faction Wars, Fallen, or Poseidon, damage per time ratio is also vital, not just the damage per energy ratio. The problem is, even if the damage per energy is fixed, Mages will die faster, meaning that they get in more Talisman hits than Swordies do.

Gunner 2% more block, +6.5 per enchant instead of 6. Sword to +6. See how that does things and work from there. You simply never make a class weaker, it causes more outrages than bumping two classes and leaving one the same. I feel that during your brainstorming, you forgot mages get +.6% SD per enchant.

The +5 down to +4 would change absolutely nothing except for how strong mages hit without use of skill points. (Which isn’t really a game changer at any point beyond level 40).

With your boss suggestion, mages could go staff for turns 1-9 and sword on tuwn 10 till turn 15 and then switch back to mage.

Edit: Got partially ninjad.

true: I made a mistake to count mages enchants with the attack. You’re right it should work with changing the SD boost

@mrwiggs8. I don’t think that mages can take big advantages with sword and back-changes, because they are usually not concentrating on str/speed. They still might do more damage in shorter time by staying on mage. Also class and weapon changes are just too annoying

While that would make the power more equal, I believe everyone would prefer simply gun and sword get buffed some than mages get nerfed…well, all but alb at least.

I don’t care anything about classes. Pushing the Tarzan Button is the only equal opportunity scenario in the game. I’m concerned about nerfing free stuff, events and coin drops. How about this….the only things that drop gold are things that would be carrying it. Why would an alien soldier be carrying 16 million coins in DW Land denomination? Why would a robot need money? Hell…why would a duck need coins? So…cut coin drops by 80%. Make events special by having them like four times a year. Make the daily box the only possible pill drop. And lastly….increase the cost of mist. Suddenly the game is off god mode and it’s fun again.

Originally posted by mrwiggs8:

While that would make the power more equal, I believe everyone would prefer simply gun and sword get buffed some than mages get nerfed…well, all but alb at least.

One idea might be to implement the decay for mages and gunners too(yes the block decay affects them too but how often does a mage get 16 rounds on a 1 hit boss? I’m swords and with effectively 90%+ block I’m happy if I make 16 rounds). Basically, have spell damage decay 1/10 of its total a round after round 2 and gun crit decay 10% a round after round 5….if this is too much it can be tweaked to rounds 3 and 6 with the next patch in 3 months.

Give bosses a chance to block all damage that can be lowered with big bang/aim/scoped/gunner class bonuses. Problem solved.

Seriously alberto, what you are saying is that you want so that everyone will have to either play less or pay more. How the fawk would that make it more fun? Sure Kingk maybe made a mistake with the weekly events, but that’s nothing that can be changed now. Please, get out of this write-only mode and start to read too… So you’re telling me that a game that I can spend about 2500e every week on and the chance for finding pills is 0 is more fun than when i can spend 10k+ energy and get a shit load of pills? It’s like saying that I would enjoy to drive a VW Beetle once a week more than driving a Ferrari every day.

Oh, I forgot to add that high quickness should have a chance to bypass block as well.

Originally posted by kingk:

Post-release expansion changes (changes have been incorporated into the expansion patch note as well)

• Battle fatigue in PvE now only affects blocking instant kill attacks and only starting on the 13th round, but sword/staff/gun’s extra bonus against mothership was removed

and

Originally posted by kingk:

Update August 2, 2012 (patchless)

• Battle fatigue for melee weapons will not start after round 16 (previously 15).

From what kingk mentioned, a sword/gun user loses his superiority of block while a staff user never loses his superiority of spell damage. Why not modify the battle fatigue like:
sword: -1% block rate
staff: -10% spell damage
gun: -5% critical rate

Originally posted by kingk:

Loosing 1% block starting on the 11th doesn’t effect average output that much (dolls also reset the round count). The biggest impact this would be is some sword users won’t be easily to just hold down the ‘s’ key to kill the bosses without instant kill. We will evaluate this change for couple days, and make necessary adjustments if needed.

How many sword users can easily just hold down ‘s’ to kill the bosses without instant kill? The problem is we can buy LPs by gems and it makes a wide gap between gemmed and ungemmed players, and kingk applies battle fatigue for this ‘unbalance’.

Back to this topic, to balance the classes, the formula of attributions should change. In general,

• 270 str for 10% max block rate (useless under the battle fatigue)


• high int + many things for max 32767 skill points (save more coins)


• 305 dex for max 300% critical damage (more spell damage multiply by spell damage bonus)


• high qui for high defense (useless under instant kill)


The problem is spell damage comes from (critical damage) * (class bonus), the spell damage from enhance potions is not limited, and the spell damage never decreases. The critical damage is unlimited only for gunner, -10% spell damage under battle fatigue, or -0.5% block rate only for sword user.
　
Limited block rate, limited critical damage, why unlimited spell damage?

---

knight: ‘All I can do is block, but now I can’t block that much anymore, sigh…’
gunner: ’That’s ok. I’m useless now. Why every class can do 300% critical attack?’
mage: ‘You need to use your intelligence to overwhelm the world. And also, no pay, no win.’

Ok, guys just cut the crap, you don’t have to pay to get good stats. You do need to use your coins wisely and all of that, but no, you don’t have to pay. I can easily do 10k+ mobs won every week without losing a shit, but as I get my crazy ideas to reach mist cap during a normal weekday by doing mainland only, then I start to notice the coin loss. I lost about 600 to 700b coins yesterday for you that wonder. But when I do only FW, during the weekend then I go almost +/-0. I usually keep a 10k average per week. This results in a pretty good amount of pills and enhances. And really, if you do the math, then you’ll notice that the thing that separates the weaker ppl from the stronger ppl the most is not their stats, but their enhances.

  Int   Dex  Spell_Dmg   | Magic power
¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯|¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯
  400   400     216%     |    186566
  400   400     456%     |    328262
  400   400     756%     |    505382
  800   800     216%     |    373132
  800   800     456%     |    656524
  800   800     756%     |    1010764
¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯
Ok that shit up there was for a lvl 90 mage with the Divine Sage class. The different Spell Dmg is with an enchanted drow staff +9 with different amount of enhances on it. 216% is unenhanced. 456% is with +2000 on it. 756% is with +4500 on it. As you can see, there’s not much difference between a guy with twice the stats if the guy with the very high stats doesn’t have the enhances too.

Originally posted by omark96:

And really, if you do the math, then you’ll notice that the thing that separates the weaker ppl from the stronger ppl the most is not their stats, but their enhances.

So that’s why I say no pay, no win.

Originally posted by lf2ian:

So that’s why I say no pay, no win.

Ehh? You don’t have to pay to get enhances. I easily get over +100 in 1 week. And that’s with 0 coin loss, so you can easily get up to the big guys if you just play.

EDIT Oh and would you look at that, Congrats omark on 500 posts! :D

Originally posted by omark96:

Originally posted by lf2ian:

So that’s why I say no pay, no win.

Ehh? You don’t have to pay to get enhances. I easily get over +100 in 1 week. And that’s with 0 coin loss, so you can easily get up to the big guys if you just play.

EDIT Oh and would you look at that, Congrats omark on 500 posts! :D

That’s true, but I don’t believe those who pay for this game pay 0 enhance potion. And you can’t have 1000+ stats only by exploring. I have played DW for 2.5 years, and my attributes are around 160 except the con.

congrats for 500 posts :D

Originally posted by lf2ian:

That’s true, but I don’t believe those who pay for this game pay 0 enhance potion. And you can’t have 1000+ stats only by exploring. I play DW for 2.5 years, and my stats are around 160 except the con.

congrats for 500 posts :D

Most ppl with +4500 have never bought an e pot with gems, maybe with coins sometimes, but not with gems. And most of those that have 1000+ stats played in the past when there was an exploit so if you didn’t have enough coins for the gambler or the dust merchant and also had the arena quest active then you couldn’t encounter those special encounters and would get a GoD instead. So they could get a shit load of GoD’s in 1 e refill. And that made energy gemming very effective

May I just ask, what’s your amount of mobs won?

121134, I’m lazy to mist :P

Sometimes you gotta break a few eggs. You’ll survive. Just imagine all the free time!

Originally posted by omark96:

Seriously alberto, what you are saying is that you want so that everyone will have to either play less or pay more. How the fawk would that make it more fun? Sure Kingk maybe made a mistake with the weekly events, but that’s nothing that can be changed now. Please, get out of this write-only mode and start to read too… So you’re telling me that a game that I can spend about 2500e every week on and the chance for finding pills is 0 is more fun than when i can spend 10k+ energy and get a shit load of pills? It’s like saying that I would enjoy to drive a VW Beetle once a week more than driving a Ferrari every day.

Originally posted by lf2ian:

121134, I’m lazy to mist :P

See, that’s your “problem” lol. It takes me about 3 months to get the same amount of mobs won and that can be done for free. So you gotta understand how much time some of these ppl put down into this game. Many really strong players don’t actually spend that much on this game.

Originally posted by omark96:

Seriously alberto, what you are saying is that you want so that everyone will have to either play less or pay more. How the fawk would that make it more fun? Sure Kingk maybe made a mistake with the weekly events, but that’s nothing that can be changed now. Please, get out of this write-only mode and start to read too… So you’re telling me that a game that I can spend about 2500e every week on and the chance for finding pills is 0 is more fun than when i can spend 10k+ energy and get a shit load of pills? It’s like saying that I would enjoy to drive a VW Beetle once a week more than driving a Ferrari every day.

“Seriously alberto” is the part that made me laugh. I sincerely hope that people have stopped taken him seriously as he’s shown an affinity towards general stupidity or borderline troll behavior. Nobody cares about what he has to say given how he’s inconsistent and has basically negative in the field of credentials.

Alberto, I prefer when I get to decide what to do with my free time by myself. If I wanna spend a lot of hours playing this game then let me, but don’t be a bitch and complain ‘cause you can’t do the same.

OK, but the point is not how many mobs won, it’s how unbalance the enhanced potion works on staff compared with sword/gun. I don’t mist a lot, but at least my power should be the same whatever the class I choose. Now mage is the best class.

Originally posted by lf2ian:

OK, but the point is not how many mobs won, it’s how unbalance the enhanced potion works on staff compared with sword/gun. I don’t mist a lot, but at least my power should be the same whatever the class I choose. Now mage is the best class.

There have always been 1 class that’s better than the others and will most likely continue like that, next expansion will most likely change it into favor for another class, maybe gunners.

Hope so, otherwise I really wanna quit this game :/

Originally posted by lf2ian:

Hope so, otherwise I really wanna quit this game :/

Why? Did the last update make you weaker than you were before? If not then what’s the deal? Eventually will all classes get a power boost again, some will get a bigger and some a lower, but everyone gets a power boost sometimes now and then.