Vanilla Mafia [GAME OVER] page 5 (locked)

I am reading through Vara’s analysis, and usually it is quite balanced and fair… But I can’t help but notice it looks a little bias towards Kingzak. Not only did Vara choose to miss out the biggest points, but picked out bits in order to simply try and make me look suspicious.

Not even an FoS yet, but I will be watching your future input. After all, anyone could be mafia at this point, and Vara is smart enough not to support Kingzak in his post, as most mafia buddies often forget, thinking they can prevent a bandwaggon and making it two mafia deaths rather than one. I don’t know, the post has a sinister edge that Vara’s posts don’t usually have? Maybe it’s just me because I was the target. We’ll see.

Anyway, if we have some good skilled players on mafia for once that will make a great change.

Yes, if Vara if mafia that will make for an interesting(and fun!) game. Since ocelot did a a PoS(Pinkie of Suspicion)/IWY onto Vara, I’m going to try and analyze her post. By the way, before you shout that I seem to be biased towards Vara, well, of course I am. I’m doing this for the express purpose of finding out if Vara is scum.

It’s like how a financial auditor doesn’t mention that he notices you have good money management skills, but jumps on one tiny little inconsistency in your records. In that sense, he’s “biased” towards you.
-

About kingzak13:

Does he help the town? No.
Will the town miss him? No.
Is he acting stupid? Yes.

Does all of that make him scum? Not necesarily!

Also, because of his incapability of self-defense, he’s a delicious lynch-bait which tastes like strawberry icecream.

Although Kingzak is not necessarily scum, he IS a Village Idiot, which makes him a candidate for lynching. Also, if someone is lynch-bait, it means he’s either a SI or VI. We want to kill VIs and protect SIs. Thus, when you lynch someone who is lynch-bait, it means there’s fifty percent chance he’s someone you want to kill. That’s good odds when you consider that we vastly outnumber the mafia.

Analyzing ocelot:

Kingzak is voting stupidly in general, seems like he is trying to just push a lynch for the sake of it with no good reason.

Translation: “Kingzak’s votes are generally stupid.”

I think you misunderstood ocelot’s use of the word “general”. When he says “general”, he doesn’t mean that “Kingzak’s votes are usually stupid.”, he means that, “Kingzak’s vote of someone who was only joking is usually a stupid move.”

A common tactic for mafia is to try and convince people you are making a quite good excuse, but “He’s just mafia” doesn’t cut it.

Makes me wonder why it was mentionworthy that kingzak’s argument doesn’t cut it. Everyone knows it doesn’t cut anything, and hadn’t you enstablished already he makes stupid votes?

*This could be for the benefit of the newbies who genuinely don’t understand why it “doesn’t cut it” and to tell Kingzak straight in the face that “no one believes, you, come on, don’t try to pull a fast one on us”.

Would a town player vote like that? I don’t think they would. I vote Kingzak.

Wait a second…
First you enstablish kingzak usually votes stupidly, and then you enstablish that because he votes stupidly, he’s mafia?

You’re contradicting yourself here. “Kingzak votes stupidly in general, and only mafia would vote stupidly.”

The logic:
kingzak.stupid = always
stupid = mafia
Therefore:
kingzak.mafia = always
?

If somebody always votes stupidly, why does his stupid voting make him mafia?

Ocelot is NOT saying that Kingzak is voting stupidly, and mafia always vote stupidly, therefore he is mafia. He is saying that Kingzak is voting for someone who is obviously a town member(hence his use of the word “stupidly”, since only a VI or SI would cast suspicion on themselves as a mafia candidate), therefore he is mafia. Or at least VI, which basically counts as mafia because he helps them.

This looks like lynching kingzak for the sake of lynching kingzak, which is slighty mafia.

Uh, no it doesn’t. Lyncing kingzak for the sake of it is like “I vote kingzak” and leaving no reason, not responding to others even when they give you evidence that kingzak isn’t mafia. Here ocelot has an argument, and it was strong enough to form a bandwagon, which is usually a sign that it’s a strong argument, because people only hop on a bandwagon when they see that several other people agree with the argument, and when several other people agree it means the argument has to be solid. Or the argument would be torn apart in analysis.

In addition, ninja quickly votes with ocelot, his arguments ecactly match ocelot’s, and now he even defend ocelot when ocelot gets FoS’ed…
Those are signs of ocelot and ninja being related, which means mafia.

I think it’s more likely that Ninja just agrees with ocelot’s argument but can’t be bothered to paraphrase too much. And he defends ocelot under the logic that ocelot’s argument is good and voting kingzak off(who ninja thinks is scum) will help the townies. As a sidenote, this seems to point that Ninja is not scum, unless he’s faking, but I don’t think Ninja would be capable of such an early and subtle fake.

This may be an excuse for ocelot for lynching kingzak for the sake of it, however he didn’t use proper arguments for a policy lynch; disguishing it as a mafia lynch. That’s not something a townie should do.

FoS ocelot.

I have already pointed out why ocelot has good reason to vote kingzak on a mafia lynch.

(Note: I’m not defending kingzak, I’m pointing out ocelot is suspicious too.)

This seems hastily added on. Obviously this could be a slip in the tongue or wording or whatever, but it is a small(very small, by itself not even able to warrant a IWY or PoS) piece of evidence towards Vara defending Kingzak.

-

In the light of my analysis, I have decided to FoS Vara for the reasons stated above.

damn you sleep

with my dying breath i incriminate …. dead

see you tommorow (my ghost will be here to see whats up)

I somehow… forgot about this game. But hey, one of the mafia guys is out of the game! Only two more to go!

Originally posted by kingzak13:

damn you sleep

with my dying breath i incriminate …. dead

see you tommorow (my ghost will be here to see whats up)

[Oh, come on. It was blatantly obvious that you were going to die. When I was talking to one of your Mafia buddies, one of them said as much.]

[You fail Mafiae forever.]

I don’t think helltank is quite right, my point wasn’t that Vara’s analysis was wrong, in fact, it was quite apt. I’m just saying that Vara failed to take note of the points where I said my proof was and went straight for the bits where I called his votes stupid. I had plenty of relevant scumtells going on how Kingzak was acting too.

I don’t yet suspect Vara. I want to see how this plays out, since sometimes when people FoS someone, other people tend to go “lolFoSthatmeansGUILTY!!!” I don’t want that to happen.

something i have noticed that has gone from mafias in the recent times

the story telling
you still have an epilogue and prologue but the description of the deaths have gone
anyone who was in a old mafia game will know what i mean

(i am going to pop up every so often just to check in and get the posts higher)

Originally posted by kingzak13:

something i have noticed that has gone from mafias in the recent times

the story telling
you still have an epilogue and prologue but the description of the deaths have gone
anyone who was in a old mafia game will know what i mean

(i am going to pop up every so often just to check in and get the posts higher)

[Mine lacks any sort of story]

[I’m too lazy to bother writing it, this game is so people can get back down to basics]

[The Mafia mislead people, the Town scumhunt, without any complicated role bullshit]

Information I’ve compiled so far, only brief bits here and there.

1. Bluji
NOTHING OF NOTE (Suspected/Inactive)

2. Myhome
KINGWAGGON (EARLY voter (Least Suspected))

3. Samster
KINGWAGGON (LATE (Clear bandwaggon had developed, still suspected.))

4. Gaminguru
KINGWAGGON (LATE (Clear bandwaggon had developed, still suspected.))

5. N1NjA
KINGWAGGON (EARLY voter (Least Suspected))

7. MysteryMason
NOTHING OF NOTE (Suspected/Inactive)

8. dreamsdragon
NOTHING OF NOTE (Suspected/Inactive)

9. TofuTaco
NOTHING OF NOTE (Suspected/Inactive)

10. devourer
KINGWAGGON (LATE (Clear bandwaggon had developed, still suspected.))

11. tttttt
FoS by Vara day one, (N/A)
So NOTHING OF NOTE (Suspected)

12. Vara
FoS on ocelot
supported KINGWAGGON

13. helltank
FoS Vara
MAFIA ATTEMPTED TO BANDWAGGON (Suspected clear townie! (yay))
KINGWAGGON (SUPERLATE)

14. Shandys
KINGWAGGON (LATE (Clear bandwaggon had developed, still suspected.))

15. kingzak
KINGWAGGON TARGET
Mafia. Dead.

I think our current situation is exactly the opposite of what it looks to be, or at least, what the mafia claims it to be.

My opinion: helltank and ocelot are the two remaining mafia. Proof down here:

Analyzing helltank:

Although Kingzak is not necessarily scum, he IS a Village Idiot, which makes him a candidate for lynching. Also, if someone is lynch-bait, it means he’s either a SI or VI. We want to kill VIs and protect SIs. Thus, when you lynch someone who is lynch-bait, it means there’s fifty percent chance he’s someone you want to kill. That’s good odds when you consider that we vastly outnumber the mafia.

First of all: why the hell (pun may or may not be intended) are you stressing the SI so much?

Why would the mafia lynch an SI?
Wy would the town want to avoid lynching SI?

Also, seriously, “You want to lynch VIs, you have 50% chance”. Seriously, if I wanted to lynch a VI, I could easily point out all VIs in this game without taking any risk of him/her not being a VI. The VIs are VIs because they’re obviously VIs. And if I accidentally lynch a SI while VI-hunting, then that’s even BETTER for us!

I say that a genuine townie wouldn’t even CONSIDER not wanting to lynch somebody because he might a a SI. You are having a mafia mind. (Will elaborate this later in this post)

Also, ocelot’s lynch is even more fishy than I accused him of in my previous post. Look at the post order. By the time kingzak voted helltank for being mafia, pretty much everyone was making joke suspections and votes. Helltank joked “i am mafia”, and kingzak joked “i vote helltank ‘cause he’s mafia”.

Why didn’t ocelot interpret kingzak’s post as a joke? I would see it as a joke, but ocelot sharply picks out his post, treating as if it wasn’t a joke.

As we can see by kingzak’s later posts, it apparently wasn’t a joke. But how did ocelot know it wasn’t? We could only judge his seriousness by his later posts.

There’s something very fishy about ocelot seeing kingzak’s post as a non-joke, while treating everything else as a joke though.

Also, quite funny how ocelot says “The way he was acting made me feel as if he was mafia.”

Because the way kingzak was acting didn’t make me feel at all like kingzak was mafia. It made me feel kingzak was an idiot. However, ocelot knew kingzak was mafia, so he had enough reason to claim kingzak is mafia, but couldn’t properly state why.

Something more:

I have skype confirmation that he was in fact mafia.

Skype confirmation or known information? I’m not sure you actually asked knoob through skype, or could simply fill that in because you already knew.

Also, helltank seems to be the first person to jump in to assault me for questioning ocelot yesterday. Ocelot treats helltank as being innocent. Ocelot is even rigorously defending helltank, as well as helltank is defending ocelot.

Helltanks says it’s unlikely ocelot is mafia:

Vara, look here. Ocelot is unlikely to be mafia, because any fool can see that even if Kingzak is townie he is obviously a VI who helps the mafia.

I sense there’s a strong link between ocelot and helltank; they are helping each other a lot.

About kingzak13:

He seems to be overly convinced of helltank being mafia. He also hints at ocelot being mafia:

so i still vote ocelot for trying to lynch a townie (even if he is a non mafia he is a pretty mean townie for trying to kill his team)

His team, obviously, is mafia. Why would he betray his own team? Because (1) he’s an SI, and (2) he’s angry at his team.

Didn’t helltank mention the town not wanting to lynch a SI? Why, because the SI is betraying his own team?

Helltank, according to ocelot, is being granted a “clear town” status because kingzak13 attacked him:

13. helltank
FoS Vara
MAFIA ATTEMPTED TO BANDWAGGON (Suspected clear townie! (yay))
KINGWAGGON (SUPERLATE)

Ocelot himself is granted clear town status because he started the bandwagon on a mafia member. He even asked for trust:

Am I a little more trustable now?

So, the sum of everything? I see two possible storylines:

+ Helltank, ocelot and kingzak are mafia;
> Helltank jokes about being mafia, thinking this might make him slighty less sispicious of being mafia, or does it according to his ritual, as he claims;
> Kingzak, the SI, assault helltank because he’s mafia and has even said it in public, being overly confident. He hopes for looking innocent;
? Helltank may or may not have asked ocelot to jump in;
> Ocelot counterstrikes kingzak. Kingzak is not helpful to their team at all, so they wouldn’t miss him if he gets lynched;
> Kingzaks defends and attacks ocelot again. “Trying to kill his team” is a big hint here. Kingzak continues because he’s confident of hitting mafia;
> Ocelot keeps striking helltank and helltank gets lynched;
> Ocelot and helltank share the innocent look with each other, hoping they’ll not be suspected anymore.

The other storyline is essentially the same as the above storyline, except everything had been discussed by the mafia and this was all an intentional plan to make ocelot and helltank look innocent. (Except that one makes me wonder why kingzak would collaborate with that.)

This may have been inspired by what knoob said in the introduction post:

Sixth, someone who votes for a Mafia is not always a Townie. Sometimes Mafia vote for their own in order to pretend to be Town.

Kingzak could be sacrificed easily; he’d be of more use to the mafia by sacraficing him for innocence than keeping him alive.

Tl;dr: helltank and ocelot are the mafia. They sacrificed kingzak in order to deceive us.

FoS ocelot.
FoS helltank.
Vote ocelot.

But helltank’s joke was hugely obvious, especially the exaggerated bad english. kingzak just posted;

Originally posted by kingzak13:

i vote helltank because he is mafia

Originally posted by helltank:

Um, knoob, sorry 4 being nub but i got a pm frum u saying dat im mafia. wat dos dat mean?

—

Especially when helltank never posts like that seriously.

I agree that helltank’s joke was indeed more obvious than kingzak’s, but ocelot definitely exagerated. First of all, it did look pretty much like a joke like me, and probably to many more. I don’t think actually anyone took kingzak seriously.

Second, such a stupid post was in no way going to cause much of a bandwagon. Yet he still is like “Kingzak wants to lynch helltank. I couldn’t allow him to continue forging his bandwagon!”

Ocelot felt the need either to attack kingzak or to protect helltank.

Actually, looking back, I’m noticing this thing which I hadn’t noticed before:

Originally posted by Knoob85687:

[No, guys]

[You’re supposed to go ‘Lol I RNG ocelot’ or summin’]

[Oh fine, I’ll do it first]

[Even though I lack a vote]

Lol I RNG ocelot

Originally posted by kingzak13:

if he can apparently play i vote for knoob because he uses RNG

if not i will relax and observe to see who is mafia and who is not

Kingzak attacks knoob while knoob RNGs ocelot. Possibly because kingzak was protecting ocelot? (Allso being illiterate enough to not notice knoob saying she doesn’t have a vote.)

Vara, I feel you are trying hard to get Ocelot out, maybe too hard…
Could it possibly be because Ocelot is suspicious of you?
FoS Vara

Originally posted by gaminguru:

Vara, I feel you are trying hard to get Ocelot out, maybe too hard…
Could it possibly be because Ocelot is suspicious of you?

Well, obviously ocelot is suspicious to me; otherwise I wouldn’t vote him.

The reason I’m trying to lynch ocelot today is actually quite different from the reason I suspected him yesterdy. Yesterday, I thought ocelot was mafia who was trying to lynch kingzak13 with invalid reasons.

Today it is because there’s a conspiracy between ocelot and helltank to lynch kingzak to make themselves look innocent.

Looking at their post, there’s too much collaboration between ocelot and helltank, and there’s a lot of interaction coming from ocelot/kingzak/helltank.

Helltank and ocelot collaborate. Kingzak accuses both of them of being mafia, being ridiculously confident about his accusations. A mix of that means they’re probably all the mafia. See my long post for details.

Also, if I ignore this, ocelot and helltank will succesfully enstablish their innocence, thin the population by lynching the inactives. As I see it: if I (or somebody else) do not fix the problem, the town will surely lose.

knnob, in the list of players, you might want to cross kingzak’s name out, just saying.

Originally posted by gaminguru:

knnob, in the list of players, you might want to cross kingzak’s name out, just saying.

[Too many dashes make the formatting break, and that might happen later on, depending on how this part of the game swings.]

EDIT: [Wait, nevermind. I forgot that I could just use my formatting SKEELZ to do it.]

Actually, I collaborated with ocelot because, well, he was one of the forerunners of the bandwagon against Kingzak, who was one of the forerunners of the short-lived bandwagon against me. Therefore, ocelot saved my life.

Now, my thought process goes like this:1)I am a townie. 2)Ocelot protected me. 3)Ocelot can’t be mafia. He can’t be faking because if he’s trying to protect a townie, he would protect a harmless townie rather than an active one that has a track record of analyzing people’s posts.

-

Now, let’s look at Vara’s behavior.

First of all, Vara has, in the past, twice falsely accused me of being mafia. This, of course, is nothing against her, but it is circumstantial evidence that she might be biased towards me. At the very least, her analysis has led to at least two false mafia lynches.

No one seems to be convinced by her analysis.

gaminguru, which did not take part in the Kingzak Wagon and thus can be regarded as a “neutral third party”, with no bias, thinks that Vara is trying “too hard” to lynch ocelot. Ninja pointed out that ocelot’s post is less “jokey” than mine.

Vara responses by saying that “it did look pretty much like a joke to me” and that “I don’t think… [anyone] took Kingzak seriously”. She doesn’t have any evidence of that. Did anyone pipe up in the thread and say, “Vara, yeah, I totally agree, Kingzak’s vote was obviously a joke”?

Town should not try to lynch SI, for the simple reason that SIs are such idiots they give the rest of their team away easily.

-
Possible Storyline:
+Vara, Kingzak and ? are mafia.
>I joke about being mafia.
>Kingzak, seeing a chance to get a non-mafia member, quickly votes me because of my joke.
>Ocelot defends me because he sees that I’m joking and Kingzak is being a moron.
>Kingzak scrambles back, wary of having a counter-bandwagon started against him. He tries to counterattack by implying that ocelot is mafia using the “Trying to kill his team” thing. This is a common mafia trick, by the way.
>Ocelot thinks that Kingzak must be either VI or scum, and bandwagons him. Kingzak gets lynched.
>Vara gives a hostile analysis of ocelot’s post, intentionally misinterpreting his English.
>I defend ocelot because her intentionally obviously false analysis is aimed at him.
>She then attacks me instead, accusing me and ocelot of collaborating.

-

To sum it all up:The Kingzak Bandwagon was a complicated event, what with the “joke-ness” of kingzak’s post being in doubt and the ocelot/kingzak/helltank repeated bandwagons against each other. Mafia members love complicated events, because they can use these events to direct suspicion on anyone who’s involved.

Therefore I vote Vara.

-

A word of warning, Vara. There are two outcomes. Either we lynch you, and you’re proven to be mafia, or they lynch me, and once I’m proven to be townie the hate will instantly rebound on you and you will be lynched. Given that the mafia are short of numbers at the moment, do you really want to sacrifice your life for a townie’s?

this is like a detective film

i like these theoreis

Actually, I collaborated with ocelot because, well, he was one of the forerunners of the bandwagon against Kingzak, who was one of the forerunners of the short-lived bandwagon against me. Therefore, ocelot saved my life.

Ocelot really saved your life? I don’t think so.

Kingzak’s bandwagon looked as stupid as possible. There’s no way he could’ve gotten any non-VI followers with him. Especially not according to his first post – which was enough for ocelot to attack him.

Ocelot apparently claims “I couldn’t allow him to forge that bandwagon”, but really, was kingzak forging any bandwagon at all? His claims were betraying the mafia-team, which made him take it seriously, for for a townie, it wouldn’t carry any value.

Also, why did you feel like any pressure had been put upon you by kingzak? Because the mafia was betraying you?

Now, my thought process goes like this:1)I am a townie. 2)Ocelot protected me. 3)Ocelot can’t be mafia. He can’t be faking because if he’s trying to protect a townie, he would protect a harmless townie rather than an active one that has a track record of analyzing people’s posts.

If you were townie, you’d see ocelot as somebody trying to lynch kingzak, not as somebody trying to protect you.

Vara responses by saying that “it did look pretty much like a joke to me” and that “I don’t think… [anyone] took Kingzak seriously”. She doesn’t have any evidence of that. Did anyone pipe up in the thread and say, “Vara, yeah, I totally agree, Kingzak’s vote was obviously a joke”?

Deja vu…

Originally posted by kingzak13:

you don’t have any actual proof i am mafia so we need to prove i am not

Seriously, I do not need proof. Why not? Because it doesn’t exist.

In mafia, we analyse each others behavior. We imagine what a townie or mafia would do in certain cases, and accuse those who act according to your image of mafia or do not act according to your image of town.

I say that a townie would not stress himself over kingzak’s initial post as much as ocelot did. There’re many reasons for thinking that which I’ve probably stated somewhere above.

Your “You don’t have evidence” is like “You don’t have evidence that a sane person would not jump into a volcano”. If somebody jumps into a volcano, I think I can claim that he wasn’t a sane person.

Town should not try to lynch SI, for the simple reason that SIs are such idiots they give the rest of their team away easily.

Town would lynch mafia. SI = mafia. When we’re lynching VIs, we’re doing it hoping there’s a SI in the VIs, otherwise lynching VIs would be pointless.

And usually, SIs do not give away the identity of the mafia… or did kingzak?
I think he did. Kingzak claims helltank is mafia, helltank claims kingzak gave away the mafia’s identity.

No one seems to be convinced by her analysis.

gaminguru, which did not take part in the Kingzak Wagon and thus can be regarded as a “neutral third party”, with no bias, thinks that Vara is trying “too hard” to lynch ocelot. Ninja pointed out that ocelot’s post is less “jokey” than mine.

First of all, Vara has, in the past, twice falsely accused me of being mafia. This, of course, is nothing against her, but it is circumstantial evidence that she might be biased towards me.

A word of warning, Vara. There are two outcomes. Either we lynch you, and you’re proven to be mafia, or they lynch me, and once I’m proven to be townie the hate will instantly rebound on you and you will be lynched. Given that the mafia are short of numbers at the moment, do you really want to sacrifice your life for a townie’s?

None of these are contributing to your defense.

What are these doing however? These are meant to discourage me from continuing my suspection, and discourage others from following my point.

The reader is meant to read your sentences as such:

“If you follow Vara, you’re alone because nobody else is.”
“I’ve got support from others! Don’t listen to her!”
“Vara had suspected me wrongfully in past mafias*. Don’t believe her!”
“Vara, whoever gets lynched, you will die.”

*I’m actually wondering which mafias you’re talking about.

Rather than providing actually valid arguments in your defense, you put in these bits to discourage people from voting you or ocelot. You hope people will support you because they fear getting lynched otherwise, even if they are slighty suspicious of you/ocelot.

Such techniques are disrupting a valid judgement of who is or isn’t mafia. Using them may or may not be scummy, but at the very least, they don’t help the town in any way.

To hell with it.
FoS VARA AND HELLTANK AND OCELOT

Vara, consider this:

Helltank is voted for by a mafia.
I voted for a mafia who got killed.
How can you FoS and Vote for the current standing least suspected players?

You’ve gathered around 4 FoS now, and alot of people don’t quite get the way you are posting.

I’m sorry but I’m going to Vote Vara.

Originally posted by ocelot:

Vara, consider this:

Helltank is voted for by a mafia.
I voted for a mafia who got killed.

How can you FoS the current standing least suspected players? I’m sorry but I’m going to Vote Vara.

[Now, I’m supposed to remain unbiased, which is why I’m not pointing out the factual inaccuracies above, but surely you aren’t forgetting that you sheeped Myhome in TofuTaco’s ‘Mafia’, causing me to lose?]

[That was even in the Guidelines. Vara quoted it. Your argument is so invalid it’s not even funny. Which is why I had to point it out, despite being the ‘supposedly neutral’ host.]

[EDIT: By the way, ocelot’s having of an invalid argument does not necessarily preclude the possibility that Vara is Mafia. Anyone here could be Mafia, with the exception of me. Enjoy your senseless paranoia!]

Originally posted by ocelot:

Vara, consider this:

Helltank is voted for by a mafia.
I voted for a mafia who got killed.
How can you FoS and Vote for the current standing least suspected players?

You’ve gathered around 4 FoS now, and alot of people don’t quite get the way you are posting.

I’m sorry but I’m going to Vote Vara.

I’ve explained this thoroughly in my posts above, and I do noq quite feel like retyping or quoting everything, so here’s are some links. They contain quite a lot of reasons to which you’ve paid no attention at all.

The only thing you seem to be bringing up is “I’m not suspected”, which is essentially what helltank is currently doing too: discouraging players from voting you without presenting any valid defense. Same counts for saying I’ve got four FoS’es on me already. It does not devalue my arguments, it does not defend you. You apparently couldn’t get some valid arguments instead.

I’ll quote myself about what happened:

+ Helltank, ocelot and kingzak are mafia;
> Helltank jokes about being mafia, thinking this might make him slighty less sispicious of being mafia, or does it according to his ritual, as he claims;
> Kingzak, the SI, assault helltank because he’s mafia and has even said it in public, being overly confident. He hopes for looking innocent;
? Helltank may or may not have asked ocelot to jump in;
> Ocelot counterstrikes kingzak. Kingzak is not helpful to their team at all, so they wouldn’t miss him if he gets lynched;
> Kingzaks defends and attacks ocelot again. “Trying to kill his team” is a big hint here. Kingzak continues because he’s confident of hitting mafia;
> Ocelot keeps striking helltank and helltank gets lynched;
> Ocelot and helltank share the innocent look with each other, hoping they’ll not be suspected anymore.

So, that’s how I can vote the self-proclaimed “currently least suspected players”.

(To everyone: can you please read my posts first before ciritisising them?)

+ Helltank, ocelot and kingzak are mafia;
> Helltank jokes about being mafia, thinking this might make him slighty less sispicious of being mafia, or does it according to his ritual, as he claims;
> Kingzak, the SI, assault helltank because he’s mafia and has even said it in public, being overly confident. He hopes for looking innocent;
? Helltank may or may not have asked ocelot to jump in;
> Ocelot counterstrikes kingzak. Kingzak is not helpful to their team at all, so they wouldn’t miss him if he gets lynched;
> Kingzaks defends and attacks ocelot again. “Trying to kill his team” is a big hint here. Kingzak continues because he’s confident of hitting mafia;
> Ocelot keeps striking helltank and helltank gets lynched;
> Ocelot and helltank share the innocent look with each other, hoping they’ll not be suspected anymore.

The START of this train of thought is assuming we are mafia. Have you even given thought to the other possibilities? No, not really.

I don’t need a valid defense, other than this post is almost PURELY assumption. The other part is assaulting helltank, which is nothing to do with me, even though he looks like he’s trying to buddy up to me.

Ocelot felt the need either to attack kingzak or to protect helltank.

How many more times must I say that voting kingzak was purely because I thought he was mafia, and I was right.

Kingzak attacks knoob while knoob RNGs ocelot. Possibly because kingzak was protecting ocelot? (Allso being illiterate enough to not notice knoob saying she doesn’t have a vote.)

This makes almost as much sense as before. I have nothing to do with Kingzak. Most of the reasons you have used up to this point towards me seem VERY arbitrary and actually have no note. In fact, I suspect attempting to tunnel on one player.

Looking at their post, there’s too much collaboration between ocelot and helltank, and there’s a lot of interaction coming from ocelot/kingzak/helltank.

I’ve been trying to get helltank to leave off me since this:

Originally posted by ocelot:

I don’t think helltank is quite right, my point wasn’t that Vara’s analysis was wrong, in fact, it was quite apt. I’m just saying that Vara failed to take note of the points where I said my proof was and went straight for the bits where I called his votes stupid. I had plenty of relevant scumtells going on how Kingzak was acting too.

I don’t yet suspect Vara. I want to see how this plays out, since sometimes when people FoS someone, other people tend to go “lolFoSthatmeansGUILTY!!!” I don’t want that to happen.

What the hell does this look like, me buddying with helltank? Not really.

I say that a townie would not stress himself over kingzak’s initial post as much as ocelot did. There’re many reasons for thinking that which I’ve probably stated somewhere above.

I sensed mafia, my nose was right and I lynched a mafia member.

No one seems to be convinced by her analysis.

gaminguru, which did not take part in the Kingzak Wagon and thus can be regarded as a “neutral third party”, with no bias, thinks that Vara is trying “too hard” to lynch ocelot. Ninja pointed out that ocelot’s post is less “jokey” than mine.

First of all, Vara has, in the past, twice falsely accused me of being mafia. This, of course, is nothing against her, but it is circumstantial evidence that she might be biased towards me.

A word of warning, Vara. There are two outcomes. Either we lynch you, and you’re proven to be mafia, or they lynch me, and once I’m proven to be townie the hate will instantly rebound on you and you will be lynched. Given that the mafia are short of numbers at the moment, do you really want to sacrifice your life for a townie’s?

Notice how none of these are me? No neither did I.
I’m actually beggining to suspect helltank a bit now, but no matter. I’m more convinced on Vara.

So after pouring through all of this, I decide I can’t actually find any “analysis” more like some random guesses in the dark. You try to use proof that is substantial as air.

I’m going to keep my vote on Vara for now.

The START of this train of thought is assuming we are mafia. Have you even given thought to the other possibilities? No, not really.

That’s not the start at all.

First, I noticed how you and helltank were helping each other, so I suspected a bond.
Next, I noticed how kingzak blamed you both of being mafia.
Then, I collected the details about the relationship triangle between ocelot-helltank-kingzak.
Thereafter, seeing the details listed “here”:?page=5#posts-5733565, I considered that kingzak might’ve been lynched to make you look innocent and made a draft of the storyline.
After thinking a lot about my ideas (I assure you I’ve thought a lot about them; I wouldn’t post such controversial stuff if I wasn’t sure enough), and correcting some points, everything seemed to make perfect sense.
And then I posted my final thoughts.

The “helltank, ocelot and kingzak are mafia” is the conclusion from everything I had found. It wasn’t the starting point at all. The storyline I posted is the conclusion of everything in the above post. I mentioned the conclusion earlier so the reader would know what way the post was heading, instead of being confused about “What is this about” while he’s reading it.

I don’t need a valid defense, other than this post is almost PURELY assumption.

My “assumptions” are quite proven. For example, any townie that reads my post can conclude for himself that not a single townie would see lynching an SI as undesireable.

Also, the way it works in science:

> Notice something is off;
> Get a hypothesis about what could be the cause;
> Do some experiments;
> Take a conclusion.

And I’m quite tired of hearing “Your argument is invalid lol” withous stating why it’s invalid. I’ve showed lots of things you did and explained why a townie wouldn’t do such stuff.

The other part is assaulting helltank, which is nothing to do with me, even though he looks like he’s trying to buddy up to me.

You’re buddying up with helltank yourself too. And really, there are lots of deep links between you. You help each other like nobody else in this thread does. And you’re both linked with kingzak.

How many more times must I say that voting kingzak was purely because I thought he was mafia, and I was right.

No matter how often you say it, I don’t believe it. I surely have stated my reasons for not believing it earlier, starting with you overreacting to kingzak’s powerless opinion. The mafia is signified by their slip-offs.

This makes almost as much sense as before. I have nothing to do with Kingzak. Most of the reasons you have used up to this point towards me seem VERY arbitrary and actually have no note. In fact, I suspect attempting to tunnel on one player.

It is a coincidence. The coincidences add up with the evidences.

Also, if you paid attention to my posts, you noticed I’m not focussing (what you call “tunneling”) upon you at all, the entire essence of my accuse lies it both you AND helltank being mafia.

What the hell does this look like, me buddying with helltank? Not really.

You are not hurting or obstructing helltank in any way. You think if you’d bandwagon me, you’d get blamed for OMGUS. Or that you overall have too little evidence to succesfully force that bandwagon.

I’ve been mafia in many games, and I can tell you this: the mafia commonly disagrees with each other. When mafia member X wants to lynch A, it’s not uncommon at all that mafia member Y objects to X and wants to lynch B instead.

Unless they feel like they collaboratively need to force a lynch because they feel threatened, they commonly voice different opinions to avoid looking like they belong together, and increase the chance the rest of the town will jump upon one of their bandwagons.

Also because the mafia doesn’t always discuss beforehand who they want to lynch, they have different opinions. I consider it possible helltank felt like wanting to revenge-strike me, while you didn’t feel that need at all.

In short: the mafia disagreeing about who to lynch isn’t uncommon at all.

Notice how none of these are me? No neither did I.

Indeed, they aren’t. I’m not attacking you, I’m simultaneously attacking you and helltank. Those are coming from helltank, so I attack helltank.

I’m actually beggining to suspect helltank a bit now, but no matter. I’m more convinced on Vara.

If this solves your “tunneling” problem, I’m willing to move my vote to helltank because I don’t care who of you two gets lynched first.

Unvote ocelot.
Vote helltank.

This, of course, does not negate my FoS on you.

So after pouring through all of this, I decide I can’t actually find any “analysis” more like some random guesses in the dark. You try to use proof that is substantial as air.

> Claims it are random guesses in the dark;
> Does not explain why it are random guesses in the dark.