RaceBandit's Storm of Chaos (Game Over): Grr, phenomenal cosmic power. page 5 (locked)

234 posts

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1. Do you believe that jesters exist in-game?

Mayhaps.

2. Do you believe that survivors exist in-game?

Yes.

3. Do you believe that there are more than 2 anti-town groups?

Mayhaps.

4. Would you be willing to start a bandwagon on a mafia comrade (aka bussing) if it seemed beneficial?

I don’t have mafia comrades.

5. How dedicated will you be to this mafia? Are you willing to put in time for activity and to think/interpret posts?

Kind of. I am not exactly into scumtell-hunting, though. It uses a lot of time and is often futile.

6. If you had a Power Role, would you be willing to rush Day to use it?

Lynching is townies’ best weapon. Better not waste it.

 
Flag Post

Pulsaris, do not ignore questions. Why did you feel the need to claim and reveal your plan?

 
Flag Post

Do you think I alone can lynch the survivors, not one, but two or more? I am not skillful at manipulating people, so I need town’s help. It is the best way I can get.

 
Flag Post
Originally posted by Pulsaris:

Do you think I alone can lynch the survivors, not one, but two or more? I am not skillful at manipulating people, so I need town’s help. It is the best way I can get.

And what makes you think that town will help you lynch survivors, when doing so will give us less time to lynch scum?

 
Flag Post

(Bluji)

Since we are in the middle of a mafia, no matter what sort, we are likely to find a mafia faction here. How many mafia members do you believe are likely to be in this game?

In a 15 player game with a possibility of multiple anti-town factions, I’d put the number of scum to be about 25% of the initial meld aka 3/4.

Do you think we have Vanilla Townies in this role madness?

Most RMs have at least one VT, from personal experience, so yeah.

(Pulsaris)

I’m a lyncher, told to lynch all survivor[b]s[/b].

I have no idea why you claimed your role this early, especially the particular role you claimed. IMHO, Lynchers are third party, and they get as much benefit by helping town as survivors do, which is precious little.

Also, for clarification, you have been given the identities of your Lynchees?


(Jask)

And how exactly do you know those people are correct?

I am confused as to the exact utility of this inquiry, but I guess you must know why you asked that. Why did you think that it was important to know whether Zzzip considered the other people correct?

In this case, I define “overly scummy behavior” as having let out a scumtell far too easily from an experienced player, or acting as a jester, which I would vote but still be careful, even though it’s gonna be jester, I doubt the game would end.

I see. Makes sense.


(Jask)

You could still scumhunt, just being a little cautious, I don’t know how you seem to deem it as ‘downright impossible’.

Because caution results in filtering, and when you filter the abstract evidence obtained in a mafia game, you are left with a mass of conjectures. It is much simpler when you don’t selectively scumhunt.

As I asked Dragon earlier, why are you uncertain for more than half your answers?

Do you consider uncertainty in expressing person opinions, as the RQS was entirely about, a scumtell? If yes, why?

cough Ocelot cough

Can you point out where, please? Just for my personal satisfaction.

Nah, two should be enough for my satisfaction, but, just to be safe, could anyone confirm these couple of mafias?

What tree are you barking up, Jask?


(devourer)

Why the sudden turnaround?

You seem disappointed by the apparent increase in popularity of your methods ;) Scummy!

Successful bussing does not bring suspicion.

He didn’t really imply that he was really good at carrying out successful bussing. Seems somewhat a useless comment.

Yes, Race doesn’t seem like the type to avoid including one. This is mostly a gut feeling, and even if I didn’t have one, I would watch out for jesters anyways, as I do in most closed mafias.

How do you watch out for jesters when scumhunting? I have asked this before, but I don’t recall asking you particularly, dev.


(Dj)

Because I usually skim over your posts while I’m answering and making conclusions.

One would say that would make scumhunting harder. Town wouldn’t want to have a harder time scumhunting.

You found me :( oh nooooooooooooo :D

Clarify whether you are actually claiming. I don’t like roleclaims accompanied with smileys and sarcasm tags.

I’m getting scum vibes from you.

Well, you roleclaimed early too (even if on different plane, mentioning only the fact that your role had a bastard modifier attached to it). Seems hypocritical to me.

I said I have a bastard modifier, is knowing that gonna help the town now? Probably not, which is why I preferred ignoring them.

It helps to know that we can expect weird things to happen, so yes, it does help a lot. Also, you should never ignore a question, no matter how useless it seems to you, as long as it pertains to the game. It might clash against your ego, but there may be someone out there more intelligent than you who can decipher more information out of a casual reply than you can.

Wrong. Survivor could easily act anti-town. Survivor can choose to hurt or help town, saying that a Survivor isn’t anti-town depends on the survivor’s playstyle.

While that is true, most survivors do not find it necessary to help scum which, as you must remember, is the minority. Particularly, many setups (including this, I feel) allow Survivor wins with town. In a way, it helps to balance a setup with multiple anti-town factions.

I play mafias for amusement rather than FGF Wins. So I try to do whatever will be more fun while trying to be serious. And Jask’s VI-ness is funny as hell.

OT, but when the thread descends into general chaos that is only resolved when Jask is lynched, it isn’t fun at all. I will pick the serious Jask toover the jester Jask any day.


(Zzzip)

Because how the hell is anyone able to form any sort of concrete opinion of a closed setup at Day 1?

That’s true, IMO. The questions asked by both devourer and Jask repeatedly about the uncertainty seems to me to be quite strange when we are playing a completely closed setup without even knowing how many town and anti-town roles are there. I wonder how we will know if we are at LyLo/MiLo.


(hell)

Debating the probability of bastard roles does nothing to help the town. We should be searching for scummy players, not wondering if there’s a Jester in the setup.

Debating > Brings opinions out.
Bringing opinions out > Identifies inconsistencies.
Inconsistencies == Scumtells.

So yeah. While debating on the weather or the Presidential elections might be useless, talking about the setup being bastard or not can lend valuable insight. Precious little, but anything is something.

That last sentence will probably come back to haunt me one of these days, but I don’t feel like fixing it.

I’m saying it again:Giving vague answers to questions that do not direectly scumhunt is not evidence of scumminess. And yes, devourer, I wuld give different answers depending on what my role is.

Elaborate, if you can, on why you would have different answers when you’d have different roles. If you feel that it is poking way too deep into your meta, adopt a general tone. Why would people have different answers when having different roles?

I’m getting major scumreads on Jask due to his insistence on pushing the smallest of things. He posted a lot of text walls and keeps on pestering people on why they avoid his questions. They have a right to, Jask. It’s Day fucking 1. Nobody has given out any major scumtells except you. You’re trying too damn hard.

Scumread 1: Insistence on pushing the smallest things.

Processed Query: Quote his insistences on pushing the smallest things, along with how they can be defined as scummy behavior (why would scum do that?)

Scumread 2: Posts lots of text walls.

Processed Output: Scumread reliability zero. Attributes similar to many townie metas and playstyles. Also detected minor amounts of hypocrisy (target post is a WoT).

Scumread 3: Pestering people about avoiding questions.

Processed Query: Isn’t avoiding questions a scumtell? There is, after all, a different between an unclear answer and an answer that isn’t even given.

Scumread 4: Trying too hard.

Processed Output: Scumread reliability zero. Townies are known to overtax themselves looking for inconsistencies.

Overall scumhunting reliability: Negligible. Consider revision.

If I avoid your question, it means I think it’s irrelevant, stupid, or I just want to lay low and see how the game develops before taking a more active stance in analysis.

Irrelevant: As I said earlier when addressing DJ: Also, you should never ignore a question, no matter how useless it seems to you, as long as it pertains to the game. It might clash against your ego, but there may be someone out there more intelligent than you who can decipher more information out of a casual reply than you can.

Stupid: Stupidity is relative. See Irrelevant.

Lying low: Which is a scumtell.

The difference is that Jaskarn is the only one out of the three who is asking useless questions, perhaps to try to confuse the players, which is always useful when you’re scum.

My memory might be faulty, but you didn’t answer Bluji’s questions from the last page. If they seemed useful to you (you mentioned that Jask was the only guy with the ‘useless questions’), why not answer them? Minor hypocrisy, again.

In other words, why do you consider Jask more suspicious than Bluji? Can you provide a comparative study of their posts to explain why exactly you consider them more/less important?

Also, if I was trying to confuse players, asking, in your own words, apparently irrelevant/stupid questions wouldn’t be my way of going about it, but maybe that’s just me.


(devourer)

But being indecisive and catering to others is.

IMO, being indecisive is NOT a scumtell, while catering to others is. There is a difference.

An indecisive player is one who doesn’t go “Oh yeah I have found a major scumtell LYNCHLYNCHLYNCH” and instead goes “Well, this can be interpreted differently from this angle”, because he is aware of the active contribution of scum in derailing logical discussion. Catering to others is when you get constantly sheeped, and appear to change your opinions to match those of the majority.

Different things, and should be differently interpreted.

Common sense, RQS isn’t scumhunting. If you’re scumhunting and I give you vague answers it’s probably because I’m scum and trying to hide. If it’s RQS I’m just not responding to questions that you decide to force me to answer.

So… Contradiction…? Isn’t a symptom of being scummy aka vague answers what town would call “scumslips” and which is the main basis of scumhunting?

Really, the only advice I give to town in order to make them seem less scummy is to answer questions and be a good Samaritan. If you are being vague, you are either scum or a rebel/VI and if I had unlimited DKs, I’d get rid of them all. RQS sometimes makes scum cocky, and sometimes it drives them back into their den. Good players know how to identify both of those symptoms of scum.

Zzip has a history of being indecisive. Furthermore, an indecisive player may not be the sign of scum, but rather of a, well, indecisive player.

I agree, actually. Zzzip’s meta has frequently been of an indecisive townie. The fact remains that metas can be changed, and this very same reliance on meta nearly (and would have inevitably, if the game continued) got my lynched in Blackout.

Better to deliberate awhile and lynch one more scum then hurry to the night phase where the scum are more powerful.

Why do you think scum is more powerful than town in this particular RM? Any reasons or just gut feelings?


(devourer)

And just how would Jask know this? Z stopped playing mafias for quite some time.

Er… can you explain how this is relevant at all? Isn’t this one game enough to show that Zzzip is indecisive?

I can even name examples if you would like me to.

Can I like you too to?


(Pulsaris)

I don’t have mafia comrades.

For the sake of discussion, assume you do. This question was in the context of a hypothetical or actual situation where you have mafia comrades. Don’t take questions out of context.

 
Flag Post

I’ve slept a night and have got some new thoughts.

First of all, I’d like to apologise Jaskaran2000 for my assholish behaviour yesterday. Sometimes I get mad at people criticising things I do, because I like to do them so. However, that only makes me act like an idiot, which behaviour those criticising people don’t deserve from me. Instead, I should just take criticism calmly and answer it without being an asshole. I’m very sorry for my behaviour, but I will continue to use bolded answers inside a quote for RQS answers.

Then, I came to realize that since this apparently due to the belief of certain players is a bastard mod game, maybe we have a Lynchers but no Lynchees?

 
Flag Post

4. Would you be willing to start a bandwagon on a mafia comrade (aka bussing) if it seemed beneficial?

Yes. You say it’s beneficial!


(AN)

I have no idea why you claimed your role this early, especially the particular role you claimed. IMHO, Lynchers are third party, and they get as much benefit by helping town as survivors do, which is precious little.

Also, for clarification, you have been given the identities of your Lynchees?

It’s better not to lie, lest my vote-manipulations get awry. And yes, the host does not give out who the survivors are. He just tell me to lynch them.


(Devourer)

And what makes you think that town will help you lynch survivors, when doing so will give us less time to lynch scum?

Scum kills. I of course will lynch scums with first priority, but what if there is no obvious scum? In how many mafia games did the town lynch all scums in the first few days?


(Bluji)

Then, I came to realize that since this apparently due to the belief of certain players is a bastard mod game, maybe we have a Lynchers but no Lynchees?

This makes the Lyncher a Named To… OH SHI-

 
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(Jaskaran)

Alrighty, you ask me that I am uncertain on my answers? What’s wrong with that? I’m not sure because I AM not sure, and I ain’t going to pretend otherwise. Quite frankly, most of those answers were gut instinct mixed with a bit of evidence.

So I ask you again. Why do YOU consider uncertain answers suspicious?

I also wish to ask you this. You seem to be gleaning a lot of information through your questions and giving a lot of argument if you think there is insufficient/bad information. So Jask. One question. Why?

 
Flag Post

Inconsistencies are not scumtells. We contradict ourselves all the time. Besides, it might be a VI. I’m getting hte impression that devourer is searching too hard for scumtells.

Too lazy to read through all the text, so I’ll just FoS devourer for searching suspiciously hard for scumtells(trying to look like townie?)and for saying null tells are scumtells.

 
Flag Post

I would like everyone to mention to me as “Lord” from now on instead of “Jask” when you’re quoting my posts.


[Bluji]

And if you don’t like it, then don’t play

Well, I’d start annoying you too if you do that in every single one of your posts, and then offer you the same advice, but for the sake of sanity, I won’t do that, unless it really, and I mean really, gets on my nerves.

just not look at my posts.

Well, if you have your thoughts and opinions in this mafia, those would be really useful, and possible scum moves could be taken from your side, so, not looking at your posts is what I’d believe to be a bad move on my part if you’re playing the same mafia I am. Telling me to not look at your posts, even if in a fit of rage, just increases my suspicion about you, since that might’ve been a calm and collected thought to make me think that it was in a fit of rage.

[Bastardroleslink]

Thanks, really appreciate you doing this just for the sake of my clarification/satisfaction.

[SuperBastardMafia]

Alright, enough to convince me I guess.

Never EVER use chat mafias as example for a forum mafia. There is a great difference between those two, and they are played very differently.

I beg to differ, bluji. Chat mafias might be useful examples for a forum mafias in case of certain players, even though I do agree about the difference part, and even if they’re modified for chat, it doesn’t mean one’s meta cannot be the same in both of those types of games.

Just like you Jask, you don’t go voting and unvoting rapidly in forum mafias, do you?

I used to, however, I’ve stopped doing it, both in chat mafias and forum mafias. In the other case, I did do that in both types of games, quite a bit, in fact. You could see a couple examples like Starship Trifos 2 by Taiboss, or Space: II by Ocelot.

And anyways, I mentioned the part referred (dj possibly having a bastard-only role) in my original post

Alright, I apologize for having mistaken it.


[Zip]

I dont think we were talking about it anywhere else, perhaps they have some themselves.

Good point. Need to take this into notice, also, why were you stuttering?.


[Devourer]

I would assume that most people would answer them. The only reason I had that condition in the first place was to prevent people like you from complaining about it and refusing to answer anything.

Well, did you consider the condition in which, since most of us have already answered that, leaving those questions, thus leaving the newcomers with practically nothing to read upon on those questions?

Why the sudden turnaround?

I like to argue with you, doesn’t matter which side, and, if anyone takes this as a scumtell, I’ll hate you.

Anyways

Off-topic, but, is it ‘Anyway’ or ‘Anyways’?

“Why?”

Well, mainly, the reason is because I believe that town would be too low-powered if we had more than two anti-factions, if race decides to be bastard, which I doubt he will otherwise the townies would have no chance, then there could be more than 2 anti-town groups, but no, in your usual case, there shouldn’t be, no matter under what circumstances, more than 2 anti-town groups.

he does.

You said it, in the one of most blunt ways possible, but you still did.


[DJ]

Because my role has a pretty bastard modifier.

If dj is not lying here, then this game has modifiers, which I hate, I hate you race, if dj is saying the truth ;-;

The person saying I’m scum and the person saying I’m town would be confused, and the person who says I’m third-party would be confused even more.

So, I believe you can possibly have chances of being, if race is bastard, a fourth-party?

Because I usually skim over your posts while I’m answering and making conclusions.

And this is because..? Skimming over someone’s post may cause you to have half knowledge, and incomplete knowledge is always dangerous, no matter in what form.

Yes, I do possess a role usually in bastard games.

If you could, could you reveal if it is included in the list of “considered bastard by most players” in the link that bluji gave?

I said I have a bastard modifier, is knowing that

You say ‘knowing that’ in a way full of arrogance that the town will believe what you have said, because, if you’re saying the truth, then you’re anti-town and we shouldn’t trust you, thus leading you to be a deceitful liar who is only trying to lead town astray.


[Zip]

Because how the hell is anyone able to form any sort of concrete opinion of a closed setup at Day 1?

Some people may or may not make slips on a closed setup at Day 1, it is not necessary that we would not be able to form any sort of concrete opinion.


[Hell]

[Reasoning why voting me]

Yeah, so you think just because you have a long post, your shitty reasoning and other retarded stuff is going to be believed? Well, it may be believed my the newcomers, but no half-experienced player would believe that shitty reasoning you have put up to hide yourself from the possibility of being scum.

[Vote: Helltank] until he provides proper reasoning instead of that shit.


[Woon]

mafia groups

Blame my inexperience yet again, but, what do you mean by mafia groups? Are you referring to anti-town groups as a whole or something else?


[Hell]

Asking zzip why his answers are indecisive, which as I pointed out is already his meta.

As adeeb once said, one who knows his meta can change his meta.

 
Flag Post

Blame my inexperience yet again, but, what do you mean by mafia groups? Are you referring to anti-town groups as a whole or something else?

Mafia team #1
Mafia team #2

It’s used, though not very often.

 
Flag Post

[Puls]

I don’t have mafia comrades.

In the question, it is clearly asking you to consider if you were mafia, not if you had any mafia comrades, what would you do in that situation if you were mafia, would you buss or not?

Lynching is townies’ best weapon. Better not waste it.

What about when if you were mafia, would you be willing to rush the day to use up your mafia ability?


[AN]

In a 15 player game with a possibility of multiple anti-town factions, I’d put the number of scum to be about 25% of the initial meld aka 3/4.

Firstly, AN, you’re wrong, 25% of the initial meld is 1/4, not 3/4. Secondly, that’s 3-4 (or 3.75, which can be rounded up to 4, or down to 3, depends which way you do it) people for anyone too lazy to calculate.

personal

How deep is this ‘personal’ experience?

Why did you think that it was important to know whether Zzzip considered the other people correct?

You’re taking it a bit wrongly here, AN. I never said it was important, it was just a question to measure people’s take on things, and why they are going along with another person’s opinions without really providing something other than “perhaps”.

I see. Makes sense.

Just to clarify, is this sarcasm or is this what you actually believe?

Because caution results in filtering, and when you filter the abstract evidence obtained in a mafia game, you are left with a mass of conjectures. It is much simpler when you don’t selectively scumhunt.

It is, indeed, simpler, when you don’t selectively scumhunt. However, I still disagree with the fact that you say it’s ‘downright impossible’ when it is, very much possible, and I don’t think filtering is that bad, since your suspicion is still there, but it might help you. Don’t ask me to tell how, since I believe you know it perfectly well.

Do you consider uncertainty in expressing person opinions, as the RQS was entirely about, a scumtell?

Not really.

Can you point out where, please?

I can.

What tree are you barking up, Jask?

The wrong one.

I wonder how we will know if we are at LyLo/MiLo.

We probably won’t.


[Blu]

I’d like to apologise Jaskaran2000 for my assholish behaviour yesterday.

Accepted the apology.

because I like to do them so.

You sure have weird fetishes.

Instead, I should just take criticism calmly and answer it without being an asshole.

You still haven’t answered it calmly and properly without being an asshole, though, and even if I am being an asshole by saying this, but meh.


 
Flag Post

In the question, it is clearly asking you to consider if you were mafia, not if you had any mafia comrades, what would you do in that situation if you were mafia, would you buss or not?

I have answered this somewhere above. It is like slapping at your face if I post the link to my answer, so it’s better for you to find and read it.


What about when if you were mafia, would you be willing to rush the day to use up your mafia ability?

Of course not. If I were mafia, I would know who were my enemies; I would not mislynch.

 
Flag Post

Votals (If I didn’t miss anyone)
Jaskaran2000: 1 (helltank)
helltank: 1 (Jaskaran2000)

Deadline in a little under 96 hours.

 
Flag Post

Jask’s vote seems a little OMGUS-y, for some reason. Can’t explain, but I just feel like that.

 
Flag Post

(Adeeb)

You seem disappointed by the apparent increase in popularity of your methods

More like annoyed by the pointlessness of the entire reason I put that clause in.

He didn’t really imply that he was really good at carrying out successful bussing. Seems somewhat a useless comment.

Perhaps, but I like making pointless comments. It makes me feel smart.

How do you watch out for jesters when scumhunting?

Jesters tend to look more like jesters than scum, in that their actions are over-the-top and unrealistically scummy. The pitfall here is that a suspected jester can just be a mafia pulling a disguise, but that’s a different story with many possible resolutions (NK, lynch just in case, etc.) and potential jesters can still be found.

The questions asked by both devourer and Jask repeatedly about the uncertainty seems to me to be quite strange

In the case of Z, I asked about his indecisiveness because he explicitly said that his opinion was influenced by people saying this mafia could be a bastard mafia. While it could be a case of indecisiveness, it could also be a case of early catering, and I have no reason not to pry into it, no matter how small.

IMO, being indecisive is NOT a scumtell, while catering to others is. There is a difference.

True.

So… Contradiction…?

I agree, actually.

I believe this is an accident, but you put me instead of helltank as the original speaker.

Isn’t this one game enough to show that Zzzip is indecisive?

One game isn’t enough to determine a player’s meta. Meta can be faked or dependent on a role. If I deliberately play passively in one mafia, does that make it my meta? If a player plays scummily in one mafia, does that make him innocent as that is his meta?

Can I like you to?

Starship Trifos 2
Dual Mafia

As can be seen, nobody unexpectedly became IV’s just because they were mafia.


(Pulsaris)

but what if there is no obvious scum?

Then we will scumhunt for scum; honestly, it’s difficult for us to hunt for survivors, especially when we derive no benefit from doing so.


(Helltank)

Inconsistencies are not scumtells. We contradict ourselves all the time.

Scum is more likely to contradict themselves than a townie. Scum have more reason to fabricate arguments and be stubborn, continuing an argument even when they start to contradict themselves. A town should see the contradictions in his argument and drop or change it, as it starts to become invalid. And with this same logic, all scumtells are not scumtells. After all, townies make slip-ups and act scummy all the time, whether or not they intend to.

Besides, it might be a VI.

Are you seriously calling yourself a VI?

I’m getting hte impression that devourer is searching too hard for scumtells.

Explain to me how scumhunting is suspicious.

Too lazy to read through all the text

Seriously? Why are you even playing then?

and for saying null tells are scumtells.

Specify what these null tells are.


(Jask)

Well, did you consider the condition in which, since most of us have already answered that, leaving those questions, thus leaving the newcomers with practically nothing to read upon on those questions?

I honestly have no idea what you’re trying to say here.

Off-topic, but, is it ‘Anyway’ or ‘Anyways’?

I’ve always used “Anyways”. Feel free to correct me if that’s incorrect.

I believe that town would be too low-powered if we had more than two anti-factions

What if they all consisted of one member?

As adeeb once said, one who knows his meta can change his meta.

So you already knew his meta?

 
Flag Post

Jask…

Why haven’t you answered my question? You’ve posted several times, 2 hours after I posted. Is this like, a “scumtell” according to you? You suspected DJ for avoiding a question, so you? Or are you too “Lord” to apply to this rule of yours?

 
Flag Post

(Bluji)

Then, I came to realize that since this apparently due to the belief of certain players is a bastard mod game, maybe we have a Lynchers but no Lynchees?

Read back to what Pulse said. He has to lynch Survivors. I called them Lynchees because they effectively are Lynchees if we are to believe the hypothesis that Pulse is Lyncher.


(Pulse)

It’s better not to lie, lest my vote-manipulations get awry. And yes, the host does not give out who the survivors are. He just tell me to lynch them.

So… why’d you say that even if you claimed Cop, you’d only be able to lynch one survivor anyway? If you don’t know who the survivors are, isn’t it ENTIRELY possible for you to lynch someone who isn’t a Survivor on your cop claim?

Scum kills. I of course will lynch scums with first priority, but what if there is no obvious scum? In how many mafia games did the town lynch all scums in the first few days?

If we are to believe you, you will be helping us to lynch scum so they don’t kill you or something like that?


(Hell)

We contradict ourselves all the time.

Uh-huh. But town should try to avoid that pitfall as the only scumslips we really can find are when scum contradicts themselves trying to avert a scumlynch >.<

Besides, it might be a VI.

So you are admitting to being a VI or something? Can we policy lynch you now?

Too lazy to read through all the text, so I’ll just FoS devourer for searching suspiciously hard for scumtells(trying to look like townie?)and for saying null tells are scumtells.

FoS Reason #1: Searching for scumtells

Processed Output: Lolwut. Town search for scumtells. Reliability in the negatives.

FoS Reason #2: Trying to look like a townie

Processed Query: Why not “is a townie”? Won’t townies look like townies? Shouldn’t squares look like squares?

FoS Reason #3: Nulltells being considered as scumtells.

Processed Query: Define nulltells. Exemplify. Preferably quote where devourer made his wrong considerations.

Overall FoS Reliability: Go away from this FoS before it explodes. Do not cross Go. Do not collect $200.


(LordJaskDudeThing)

Off-topic, but, is it ‘Anyway’ or ‘Anyways’?

Anyway.

Anyways is more melodious on the ears, and easier to use in rapid conversation, since the pull on the S allows you to arrange your thoughts a split second longer than anyway does, and also allows for a smoother transition to the next consonant sound, though notably, not in case of vowel sounds.

That’s the reason behind why Anyways is more popular among the younger people. The original word has rather obscure roots, though it probably originated somewhere in the States and the colloquialism rapidly picked up in terms of popularity due to the fact that Anyway is one of the most frequently used words to change track or bring an end to a conversation.

/offtopic.

So, I believe you can possibly have chances of being, if race is bastard, a fourth-party?

Or a role that changes its alignment, though I am probably just musing.

You say ‘knowing that’ in a way full of arrogance that the town will believe what you have said, because, if you’re saying the truth, then you’re anti-town and we shouldn’t trust you, thus leading you to be a deceitful liar who is only trying to lead town astray.

Why the incomplete quote?

Also, if we are to believe him, it doesn’t help us much as the only thing we know is that there are bastard roles in this game. The statement per se says nothing of his alignment.

Yeah, so you think just because you have a long post, your shitty reasoning and other retarded stuff is going to be believed?

I might seem hypocritical after my own analysis of helltank’s reasoning for voting you, but I’d have really, really liked it if you quoted the “shitty reasoning” and “retarded stuff” and explained why it was so.

Particularly when that is the main reason why you voted helltank.

In the question, it is clearly asking you to consider if you were mafia, not if you had any mafia comrades, what would you do in that situation if you were mafia, would you buss or not?

He answered the question again later.

25% of the initial meld is 1/4, not 3/4

Pardon me.

How deep is this ‘personal’ experience?

Well, I have played many RMs on this side and off, and that’s what my brain tells me: that there is always a Vanilla Townie (or equivalent) no matter how hectic the RM is, though different GMs balance them differently. Off the top of my head, Yti had Tracy as Leonardo (PR’d Vanilla Townie) (though he did choose that role in his desired role meld).

I never said it was important, it was just a question to measure people’s take on things, and why they are going along with another person’s opinions without really providing something other than “perhaps”.

I see.

Just to clarify, is this sarcasm or is this what you actually believe?

I had no cause for sarcasm there.

However, I still disagree with the fact that you say it’s ‘downright impossible’ when it is, very much possible, and I don’t think filtering is that bad, since your suspicion is still there, but it might help you.

I said “it is downright impossible to scumhunt properly”, not that is downright impossible to scumhunt. Don’t put words in my mouth.

Not really.

I see.

I can.

Will you provide a link justifying your statement when answering this question?


(Bluji)

Jask’s vote seems a little OMGUS-y, for some reason. Can’t explain, but I just feel like that.

Gut feelings can be helpful sometimes, but really, it was entirely possible for you to have demanded an explanation of the vote from Jask or have tried to analyze his post to explain why you felt so. This comment alone does little to help the situation.

If you do think it is an OMGUS vote, what is your opinion? What does the OMGUS vote, in the present context, signify to you?


(devourer)

Jesters tend to look more like jesters than scum, in that their actions are over-the-top and unrealistically scummy. The pitfall here is that a suspected jester can just be a mafia pulling a disguise, but that’s a different story with many possible resolutions (NK, lynch just in case, etc.) and potential jesters can still be found.

Would you advocate a policy lynch on someone acting overly scummy? If there was a claimed Vigilante, would you advocate a Vig shot against someone acting overly scummy, if you had the knowledge that the scum factional kill was not compulsive and scum could withhold their kill in order to frame the Vig?

In the case of Z, I asked about his indecisiveness because he explicitly said that his opinion was influenced by people saying this mafia could be a bastard mafia. While it could be a case of indecisiveness, it could also be a case of early catering, and I have no reason not to pry into it, no matter how small.

Understandable.

I believe this is an accident, but you put me instead of helltank as the original speaker.

Pardon moi.

One game isn’t enough to determine a player’s meta. Meta can be faked or dependent on a role. If I deliberately play passively in one mafia, does that make it my meta? If a player plays scummily in one mafia, does that make him innocent as that is his meta?

But one game can be a very good hint to a person’s meta, though I think I see what you mean here. I didn’t think about it from that angle yesterday.

As can be seen, nobody unexpectedly became IV’s just because they were mafia.

Very illustrative.

Are you seriously calling yourself a VI?

Beaten to the punch by devourer >.<

What if they all consisted of one member?

You mean multiple serial killers?


(DAZ)

Why haven’t you answered my question? You’ve posted several times, 2 hours after I posted. Is this like, a “scumtell” according to you? You suspected DJ for avoiding a question, so you? Or are you too “Lord” to apply to this rule of yours?

What’s with the sarcasm on the last sentence?

I agree that Jask shouldn’t have ignored your question earlier, but what is YOUR take on this? Why are you saying “is this like a scumtell according to you?” Is this a scumtell according to you?

Mod: Can you clarify whether we will be informed or not when we are LyLo/MiLo?

 
Flag Post

[AN]

Or a role that changes its alignment

A role that could change alignments should be considered fourth-party/third-party.

we know is that there are bastard roles in this game.

And how exactly do we ‘know’ that there are bastard roles in the game? Just because race may or may not have been bastard in the past does not mean it is necessary for race to be or not be bastard in this game. Even if race has been bastard in more games than ones he’s not been bastard in, we only have a chance at guessing, even if with higher probability, that it is a bastard game, but not knowing. I don’t see how you would ‘know’ this unless you have a bastard role yourself.

The statement per se says nothing of his alignment.

It seemed like anti-town, so I decided I should go with it, it does have a bit of higher probability of him being anti-town in my eyes.

but I’d have really, really liked it if you quoted the “shitty reasoning” and “retarded stuff”

Here:

Originally posted by helltank:

Debating the probability of bastard roles does nothing to help the town. We should be searching for scummy players, not wondering if there’s a Jester in the setup.

Lots of people have been banging on Zzip and Dragon for giving vague answers to the RQS, but I’m gonna put it out that it’s an RQS, they aren’t expected to give clear answers.

I’m saying it again:Giving vague answers to questions that do not direectly scumhunt is not evidence of scumminess. And yes, devourer, I wuld give different answers depending on what my role is.

I’m getting major scumreads on Jask due to his insistence on pushing the smallest of things. He posted a lot of text walls and keeps on pestering people on why they avoid his questions. They have a right to, Jask. It’s Day fucking 1. Nobody has given out any major scumtells except you. You’re trying too damn hard.

If I avoid your question, it means I think it’s irrelevant, stupid, or I just want to lay low and see how the game develops before taking a more active stance in analysis.

In my thread Advanced Mafia Strategy I brought up the idea of Influential Voices, the people that drive the action forward. I also pointed out that usually, at least one mafia is an IV as to better control the game.

The IVs I see so far are Jaskaran, Devourer and Bluji. They are the ones asking the questions and pushing for answers. The difference is that Jaskarn is the only one out of the three who is asking useless questions, perhaps to try to confuse the players, which is always useful when you’re scum.

Therefore, I unvote Devourer and vote Jaskaran.

You’re welcome.

Pardon me.

Why should you be pardoned, if a mere human who has committed murders and done robberies would say “Pardon me” to the police, I doubt he would get released, so, yes, why should you be pardoned?

that there is always a Vanilla Townie (or equivalent) no matter how hectic the RM is, though different GMs balance them differently.

Alright, I’ll believe you this time. Also, off-topic, but now I know one role of your mafia.

I had no cause for sarcasm there.

I wouldn’t know, considering it’s you.

Don’t put words in my mouth.

As a matter of fact, I only took a word away from your mouth, not put it in it. Also, if you were perhaps skilled enough, you would be able to scumhunt properly in such a condition.

Will you provide a link justifying your statement when answering this question?

Probably not.


[Pulsaris]

I have answered this somewhere above. It is like slapping at your face if I post the link to my answer, so it’s better for you to find and read it.

I’ll look up and read it then, Mr. Pulsaris.

I would know who were my enemies; I would not mislynch

So, as mafia, you would know who the 3rd party roles were, and who the townie roles were?


I will not reply to anyone not referring to me as ‘Lord’. Either that, or you don’t mention my name, but quote my post, and I shall reply.

 
Flag Post

I’ll be sure to inform you of whether or not a night resolution leaves you at MyLo, LyLo, or a guaranteed town loss.

 
Flag Post

(AdeebNafees)

Read back to what Pulse said. He has to lynch Survivors. I called them Lynchees because they effectively are Lynchees if we are to believe the hypothesis that Pulse is Lyncher.

What I said but change “Lynchees” to “Survivors”. If I am to believe this as a bastard game, that’s totally possible.

<offtopic>

Off the top of my head, Yti had Tracy as Leonardo (PR’d Vanilla Townie)

Except it wasn’t a VT. It was a Once-Every-Three-Nights-Cop. Though, that game did have a VT (coolo).

</offtopic>

If you do think it is an OMGUS vote, what is your opinion? What does the OMGUS vote, in the present context, signify to you?

It seemed a lot like an OMGUS vote mainly because his arrogant word usage (“shitty reasoning and other retarded stuff”) that seemed like Jask thought he is above helltank in some sort, saying helltank isn’t actually allowed to vote him on any basis. Reading the reasons helltank provided for his Jask vote (Jask is pushing players on small things and asking useless questions, and when people ignore those questions, he just keeps pestering them) sound fine to me, and thus the vote is given on a good enough basis, considering it is day 1.


(Jaskaran2000)

I’m going through your post in a rather odd order.

I will not reply to anyone not referring to me as ‘Lord’.

Do you have any idea how stupidly arrogant this sounds? I can’t think of any other word for your behaviour than ‘arrogant’, because that is what you are. Sadly enough that’s not big enough of a reason for a vote, but I would definitely vote you on that basis if I weren’t capable of finding scumtells of any sort.

Why should you be pardoned, if a mere human who has committed murders and done robberies would say “Pardon me” to the police, I doubt he would get released, so, yes, why should you be pardoned?

Has Adeeb done something worse here than murder someone? I highly doubt that, so I don’t get what was your point here. All he did was make a tiny mistake on 25% of the initial meld being 1/4 instead of 3/4 as he said, so this was just exagguration for you to say what I quoted above.

 
Flag Post

(Adeeb)

Would you advocate a policy lynch on someone acting overly scummy? If there was a claimed Vigilante, would you advocate a Vig shot against someone acting overly scummy, if you had the knowledge that the scum factional kill was not compulsive and scum could withhold their kill in order to frame the Vig?

If I have reason to believe that it isn’t normal for him to be acting that scummy, I would advocate a lynch (I have no idea why you’re calling it a policy lynch). If I have reason to believe that he can’t fake a jester, I won’t advocate a lynch. Obviously, whether or not I vote depends on the circumstances. As seen in YtIV, I avoided voting arken because of his excessive scumminess. There was the possibility that he was scum faking jester, but from what I had seen from him, it wouldn’t have been a possibility that I would have expected.

And yes, if possible and if I was uncertain, I would advocate a Vig kill. If I had knowledge that the scum kill wasn’t compulsive, the scum holding back their kill wouldn’t make the vig suspicious as long as the target was killed. After all, the knowledge that the scum could hold back their kill is open. And besides, I prefer not to vote based off of night actions anyways. It’s insufficient evidence, and only should be considered if more evidence comes to light via pressuring.

But one game can be a very good hint to a person’s meta

I think that one game with the player as scum and one game with the player as town is the bare minimum to start interpreting meta. That is, for players that don’t have a meta of being completely inactive.

Very illustrative.

I can’t tell if this is sarcasm or not, but I’m leaning towards the former. I could have been more descriptive and explanatory, but I felt lazy and had work to do anyways. Either way, I think that the general point is clear.

You mean multiple serial killers?

That’s a possibility. Of course, individual scum can be more than just SK’s.


(LordJaskHollywoodExplosions)

You have got to be kidding me. LordJaskHollywoodExplosions, I don’t mind adding “Lord” to your name, but don’t ignore posts in mafia just because you feel like it. Yes, this includes others that you have ignored.

Well, did you consider the condition in which, since most of us have already answered that, leaving those questions, thus leaving the newcomers with practically nothing to read upon on those questions?

I honestly have no idea what you’re trying to say here.

I believe that town would be too low-powered if we had more than two anti-factions

What if they all consisted of one member?

As adeeb once said, one who knows his meta can change his meta.

So you already knew his meta?

A role that could change alignments should be considered fourth-party/third-party.

Correct me if I’m wrong, but any role that isn’t mafia or town is considered third-party.

You’re welcome.

What specifically in that post do you consider to be “shitty reasoning”?


(Bluji)

saying helltank isn’t actually allowed to vote him on any basis.

Explain how you came to this conclusion.

considering it is day 1.

So his argument wouldn’t be sufficient if it wasn’t D1?

 
Flag Post

(AN)

So… why’d you say that even if you claimed Cop, you’d only be able to lynch one survivor anyway? If you don’t know who the survivors are, isn’t it ENTIRELY possible for you to lynch someone who isn’t a Survivor on your cop claim?

Some survivors will expose themselves eventually.

If we are to believe you, you will be helping us to lynch scum so they don’t kill you or something like that?

This.


(Buttf*cker)

So, as mafia, you would know who the 3rd party roles were, and who the townie roles were?

Mafia is to become majority. What is the difference between lynching townie and lynching 3rd party?

 
Flag Post
Originally posted by DragonArcherZ:

Jask…

Why haven’t you answered my question? You’ve posted several times, 2 hours after I posted. Is this like, a “scumtell” according to you? You suspected DJ for avoiding a question, so you? Or are you too “Lord” to apply to this rule of yours?

Originally posted by DragonArcherZ:

(Jaskaran)

Alrighty, you ask me that I am uncertain on my answers? What’s wrong with that? I’m not sure because I AM not sure, and I ain’t going to pretend otherwise. Quite frankly, most of those answers were gut instinct mixed with a bit of evidence.

So I ask you again. Why do YOU consider uncertain answers suspicious?

I also wish to ask you this. You seem to be gleaning a lot of information through your questions and giving a lot of argument if you think there is insufficient/bad information. So Jask. One question. Why?

[Vote: Jaskaran2000] Refusal to answer this. Are you intentionally avoiding this question?

 
Flag Post

(Bluji)

Reading the reasons helltank provided for his Jask vote (Jask is pushing players on small things and asking useless questions, and when people ignore those questions, he just keeps pestering them) sound fine to me, and thus the vote is given on a good enough basis, considering it is day 1.

Can you scroll up to where I argued against helltank’s reasons for voting Jask, and give us your opinion on those points? It will help us a lot more than just knowing your stance and nothing else, you see.

[Addressing Jask]

That was unwanted and unwonted. Can you provide more relevant analysis? You know, analysis that is relevant to this mafia? What do you think about the helltank and Jask duo? Do you think one of them is scum?


(devourer)

If I have reason to believe that it isn’t normal for him to be acting that scummy, I would advocate a lynch (I have no idea why you’re calling it a policy lynch).

A policy lynch because we are considering the existence of a Jester and thus, the person acting overly scummy has a high possibility of being Jester. It is a policy lynch because lynching a Jester doesn’t help town, though a person looking like a Jester may be scum. It is like lynching VIs.

And yes, if possible and if I was uncertain, I would advocate a Vig kill. If I had knowledge that the scum kill wasn’t compulsive, the scum holding back their kill wouldn’t make the vig suspicious as long as the target was killed. After all, the knowledge that the scum could hold back their kill is open. And besides, I prefer not to vote based off of night actions anyways. It’s insufficient evidence, and only should be considered if more evidence comes to light via pressuring.

Thank you for your detailed answer.

I can’t tell if this is sarcasm or not, but I’m leaning towards the former. I could have been more descriptive and explanatory, but I felt lazy and had work to do anyways. Either way, I think that the general point is clear.

I didn’t say that you were descriptive or anything. The mafia you linked, which I was too lazy to link-quote, was very illustrative of your point.

I manage to convey sarcasm even when it is unintended. That is alarming.

Of course, individual scum can be more than just SK’s.

Can you elaborate, please? I think I get the basic gist of what you want to say, but I want to be sure that we are thinking along the same lines here.


(Pulsaris)

Some survivors will expose themselves eventually.

Can you list a coupla survivor tells? I have tried thinking up a couple of them, but honestly, it seems to be to me extremely hard word since Survivors are a hell lot more like VTs than Scum/SKs.

This.

Ah.

What is the difference between lynching townie and lynching 3rd party?

Not directed at me, but I’d like to answer it anyway. Town oriented players rarely, if ever, get a chance to “go over to the wrong side”. On the other hand, third party players don’t actually care whether townies die or not.

Unless your win condition states that scum winning invalidates your own win, or something like that.


(DAZ)

[Vote: Jaskaran2000] Refusal to answer this. Are you intentionally avoiding this question?

Answer this, please, before I call you out for hypocrisy:

What’s with the sarcasm on the last sentence?

I agree that Jask shouldn’t have ignored your question earlier, but what is YOUR take on this? Why are you saying “is this like a scumtell according to you?” Is this a scumtell according to you?