Beasts of War[BETA] page 3 (locked)

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…Zzzip. That’s not “not completely balanced”. That’ “broken as hell, but with idiotically high energy costs”. Seriously, lower everything.

 
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Originally posted by BCLEGENDS:

…Zzzip. That’s not “not completely balanced”. That’ “broken as hell, but with idiotically high energy costs”. Seriously, lower everything.

Point of Order.

 
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Lower the energy costs. Order has better creatures and higher energy costs than usual, but this is insane.

Golden Hourglass of the Instant seems UP as you remove all your energy cards. I’d rather have energy cards than total energy. Total energy runs out; energy cards don’t.

Golden Obelisk of the Eternal does nothing to help you as it actually takes away energy. Stasis is one of the weakest skills I’ve ever seen as it actually sabotages you AND your opponent at the same time. Order is about hoarding energy and summoning big-ass creatures, not taking away energy and making your creatures unable to attack.

I like Counterclockwise due to its Casuality skill and its Rewind skill. It allows you to control the energy flow for both players. I like the Diminishment thing as well, so its power level cycles to and fro. You should make it so Clockwise can turn back into Counterclockwise(so it can use its skills again).

I assume Anubis’ passive is to prevent “raise from dead” type spells? Sounds fair. Raising Call needs to have its energy cost reduced. But I love the Soul Collection. It can combo with Raising Call to turn your opponent’s creatures into your own.

Prophet’s Scarcity power-you do realize that there is no benefit whatsoever to reshuffling your deck, right?

Chronophage is pants-shittingly powerful. I love it. I’d say an Energy cost of 15 would do just fine.

 
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Water Starter Deck
10x Basic Energy
1x Last Shield
5x Tidal Slasher
3x Flash Frost
3x Spineshock
3x Deathspine Treader
3x Leviathan Boomer
2x Icewraith

Tidal Slasher
Water
Energy Cost 2
Power Level 1000
Abilities:
Toxin(Passive):When this creature is destroyed by another creature, the killing creature will lose 500 power the next turn.

Flash Frost
Spell
Energy Cost 3
Select a creature. That creature cannot attack or use any abilities for the next 2 turns.

Spineshock
Spell
Energy Cost 3
Select a creature. That creature cannot use any abilities for the next 3 turns.

Deathspine Treader
Water
Energy Cost 5
Power Level 4000
Abilities:
Injection:Select a creature. That creature will lose 500 power every turn until either it dies or this creature dies. This ability may only be used again when the target creature has died.
Poison Gas:Lower all enemy creatures by 500 power. When this ability is used, the ability Injection cannot be used for the next 3 turns. Any creature currently taking damage from it will stop taking damage until Injection is available again.

Leviathan Boomer
Water
Energy Cost 6
Power Level 8000
Abilities:
Blindness(Passive):This creature may not attack.
Guardian:When another creature is being attacked, this creature may choose to absorb the damage instead. If so, it will only deal half its power level as damage to the attacking creature instead of its full power.

Icewraith
Water
Energy Cost 10
Power Level 8000
Abilities:
Sub-Zero:The next turn, all enemy creatures may not attack or use any abilities. This ability has a cooldown of three turns.
Nervewracker Blast:Select a target creature. This creature loses 500 power whenever it attacks another creature. This ability has a cooldown of two turns.

 
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I haven’t finished debating with Z over the balance/relevance of his cards, but I’ll comment on this anyways.

Golden Hourglass of the Instant seems UP as you remove all your energy cards.

I wouldn’t say it’s UP. Just extremely situational. As such, it has no place in a starter deck.

Golden Obelisk of the Eternal does nothing to help you as it actually takes away energy.

Seriously? I can imagine building entire decks based on Golden Obelisk. I can imagine it being OP or balanced (I settled on balanced with a 10 energy Dynamcity cost), but it’s definitely not unhelpful. Imagine the deck-out strategies possible with just 10 energy cards in the energy pile, protection against permanent destruction spells, and a good deck set-up.

Remember that Stasis does not stop energy gain or the placement of cards. As far as I can tell, it also doesn’t prevent passives (which I forgot to ask Z). In other words, providing you play Obelisk while you have an advantage and time your Stasii correctly, you have countless possibilities in terms of strategical approaches. You could simply wait for an enemy deck-out, let your energy climb, build multiple 10k (exaggeration) power Clockwises, etc. In this way, Obelisk can allow you to hoard energy and summon expensive creatures. I don’t like Obelisk personally and I agree that it feels awkward in the Order theme (perhaps it would help if Hourglass was replaced), albeit in a different way than you say, but it’s definitely not unhelpful.

and its Rewind skill

Hypothetically, let’s say that I have five Clockwises on the battlefield. Could I not spam Rewind in order to gain infinite power? I understand that spells will probably be able to counter this, but the energy cost irks me, especially when Rewind is combined with the energy eating Causality.

You should make it so Clockwise can turn back into Counterclockwise(so it can use its skills again).

Could you propose how you would go about doing this?

Raising Call needs to have its energy cost reduced.

My final stance on this depends on the eventual cost of Anubis itself and the average cost of most creature cards, but as of now, I don’t see why Raising Call should be reduced. If anything, 10 energy is balanced.

Prophet’s Scarcity power-you do realize that there is no benefit whatsoever to reshuffling your deck, right?

Situational. Prophecy of the Enlightenment and other effects might make it beneficial. In addition, drawing cards is skipped, so it prevents deck-out.

I’d say an Energy cost of 15 would do just fine.

Oh god. While I agree that 75 is pushing it by a lot, 15 sounds OP.

 
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EBWOP:

Looking at the addition of more cards, I should probably do some thinking about energy output/cost balance as opposed to the drawing of cards before stating my opinions about card balance. Ignore any critiques I have about energy cost for now.

 
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Signing to be a beta tester.

 
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I get what you mean, devourer, by using Golden Obelisk of the Eternal to do things like “STASIS EVERY TURN UNTIL HE DECKS OUT”, but please note that:
a)Obelisk destroys itself if your opponent gets more Total Energy than you.
b)Obelisk REDUCES YOUR TOTAL ENERGY.

Therefore, I don’t think Obelisk will be able to last long if he focuses on Energy building cards(Basic Energy, cards that add energy or whatever).
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Also, any comments on my Water Starter? Seems pretty interesting to me. It’s easy to use. Basic strategy is:

Tidal Slasher, Flash Frost, Spineshock, Deathspine Treader should all inflict enough status effects on your enemy to prevent super rushes. Then your Icewraiths can come in and pwn everybody(even better, it can be guarded by hte Leviathan Boomer).

 
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a)Obelisk destroys itself if your opponent gets more Total Energy than you.
b)Obelisk REDUCES YOUR TOTAL ENERGY.

I did say that it could work with the right deck set-up, didn’t I? In other words, a stall deck oriented around energy spam/steal/gain. You raise a good point with B though; in retrospect, I didn’t factor that in as well as I should have. Of course, the potency of this really depends on meta and other cards.

Also, any comments on my Water Starter?

I’ll comment when I have more time and I can work out a formula or something to calculate how energy cost should be determined. As of now, I feel that we’re working off of guesswork and that’s not a good thing when energy rate is actually based off a factor.

 
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As a general rule, the creature’s power divided by one thousand should be its energy cost. But remember to factor in abilities.

For example, my Tidal Slasher has 1000 power, so its cost should be one. But it has a minor ability, so I raise it to two. But only time will tell what’s hte best way to assign energy costs.

By the way, to ensure the starter decks are balanced, I’m going to have to play 15 games. That should cover all the combinations of the starter decks with each other. If there are no obvious OP/UP decks, then we can launch the full version of Beasts of War.

 
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By the way, to ensure the starter decks are balanced, I’m going to have to play 15 games.

Please make sure to record some logs and post them so that beta testers can voice their opinions. It would also give some nice information as to how duels will look and work.

 
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Sure. When BC works out what proportions of cards he wants to put into his Starter Darkness Deck I can play a Fire/Darkness game with either you or him.

 
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Poorly drawn Golem.

Questionalbly drawn Spark.

 
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Darkness Starter Deck
10x Basic Energy
1x Last Shield
5x Black Summoning
3x Voodoo Lock
5x Living Shadow
3x Vampire’s Thrall
2x Assassin
1x Pit Demon



Black Summoning
Darkness
Energy Cost 2
Summon any number of Darkness-element monsters with a combined Power Level of up to 2000 from your deck. This spell card may also be used in conjunction with any number of additional Black Summonings in your hand simultaneously; for every additional Black Summoning invoked at the time this card is played, add 1.5 to the total energy spent (rounded up) and 2000 to the total Power Level that can be played from your deck. Excess Power Level that is not used is lost, and future uses of Black Summoning will not stack with the current use.

Voodoo Lock
Darkness
Energy Cost 4
Target one enemy monster. Until the monster is destroyed (NOT removed from the field by any other means), it’s abilities cannot be used.

Living Shadow
Darkness
Energy Cost 3
Power Level 1000
Abilities:
Unseen Burden – Target one enemy monster. That monster’s power level is reduced by 2000, to a minimum of 500, and Living Shadow cannot attack enemy monsters or block attacks from other enemy monsters. This effect can be undone by the owner of this card at any point during their turn, and is automatically undone if the monster targeted by this ability is destroyed.

Vampire’s Thrall
Darkness
Energy Cost 4
Power Level 2000
Abilities:
Drain Energy – Target one opponent. Transfer one of their Energy cards from their Energy pile to your own. This ability may only be used by this monster once per opponent per match.

Assassin
Darkness
Energy Cost 7
Power Level 3000
Abilities:
Stealth (Passive) – When this monster is played on the field, opponents will not be informed of its presence on the field or of effects it endures as a result of abilities or spells used by any player, and it will not block attacks until it damages an opponent’s monster, at which point this ability will deactivate.
Enact Namesake – This ability can only be used whilst Stealth is active on this monster. Target an enemy monster that is not a wall. That monster takes damage equal to two and a half times this monster’s current Power Level. This monster does not suffer damage from damaging an opponent’s monster by this method; however, it will deactivate Stealth as per a normal attack, and this monster will be unable to attack normally on the turn this is used.
Hide – This ability can only be used whilst Stealth is inactive on this monster, and cannot be used in the same turn as Enact Namesake. Return this monster to the owner’s hand (returning the monster to the hand in this manner does not affect its Power Level at the time). Playing this monster on the field again does require that its Energy Cost is paid; however, this ability reduces its Energy Cost by 1 each time it is used, to a minimum of 4.

Pit Demon
Darkness
Energy Cost 9
Power Level 5000
Abilities:
Seeping Weakness (Passive) – Whilst this monster is present on the field, the Power Level of all enemy monsters is reduced by 500 for every turn this monster is on the field past the first, to a minimum of 500. Enemy monsters that are played after this monster are subject to the gradual loss of Power Level in the same manner as those already present on the field. When this monster leaves the field, enemy monsters regain their Power Level at a rate of 500 per turn, up to their initial Power Level.
Into the Pit – Target an enemy monster. That monster is removed from the field for one turn. When it returns, its Power Level at the time this ability was used is halved.

 
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Just want to confirm that the above deck is approved by me.

Whoever wishes to test the Fire vs Darkness starter deck combination to make sure neither is OP, please step right up and pick your deck, I’ll use the other one.

 
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about the updated fire deck: Can the steam machines attack? and can the soaring dragon kill any monster for free with its special?

 
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Originally posted by helltank:

Just want to confirm that the above deck is approved by me.

Whoever wishes to test the Fire vs Darkness starter deck combination to make sure neither is OP, please step right up and pick your deck, I’ll use the other one.

Wait wait wait here. That above deck is not right.

Assassin is Way OP. Not only can you inflict an unstoppable 7500 attack by default, you can completely heal it by using Hide, nullifying any damage done to it, and replay it for a lower cost. This is complete OP defense and offense crammed into one 7 Energy cost. Darkness is not supposed to have good defense.

Pit Demon is just OP. It has too much defensive power for a 9 Energy Darkness card.

Also, Voodoo Lock is UP for a Darkness spell. Darkness spells are supposed to be the most powerful in the game.


Guys, I want to propose that Devourer359 is an excellent balancer. He was the balance of FGF WarCards. He knows what goes on. I want you to before you post your decks here, to do a preliminary discussion with him.

 
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Zzzip50 is right, as I think that the Assassin should have a base power level of 1000. Stealth and Enact Namesake can stay but the Hide skill needs to dissapear. Energy cost should be 4-6.

And as for Pit Demon it should either be scrapped or have its own sleeping weakness affect skill affect itself. (not allies) So it would be useful if you’re facing multiple enemies at once. :P

 
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Darkness is supposed to be Ability and spell based. Therefore, Pit Demon at most should have 2000 Power level.

 
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Im going to completely destroy my Order Starter deck. It doesn’t fit the theme as well. Will work on it tommorow.

 
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Assassin is NOT OP. He appears on the field and uses Enact Namesake. Now he’s exposed, so I take him out with a creature that has a power above 3000.

Therefore, the Assassin is basically a one-shot 7500 power damage. Unless the enemy is stupid, the Assassin has no chance to use Hide. A one-time 7500 damage is reasonable for an energy cost of 7, isn’t it?

Still, I agree with gammaflux, perhaps reduce his base power to 1000 as Assassin is ability-based, not power-based.

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If Pit Lord has 2000 power level, I’d just use a weak creature like Three-Sword Warrior(an energy cost of only 2) and attack it. Both die. You’ve wasted 9 energy, I’ve wasted only 2.

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Vodoo Lock can be a deathblow to certain creatures. For example, the Leviathan Boomer is the main protector of the extremely powerful Icewraiths in the Water Starter Deck. The Boomer can only protect Icewraiths WITH ITS GUARDIAN SKILL. If someone VLocked the Boomer, the Icewraith would be exposed and the Boomer would be useless as it can’t attack.

 
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Originally posted by helltank:

Assassin is NOT OP. He appears on the field and uses Enact Namesake. Now he’s exposed, so I take him out with a creature that has a power above 3000.

Therefore, the Assassin is basically a one-shot 7500 power damage. Unless the enemy is stupid, the Assassin has no chance to use Hide. A one-time 7500 damage is reasonable for an energy cost of 7, isn’t it?

Still, I agree with gammaflux, perhaps reduce his base power to 1000 as Assassin is ability-based, not power-based.

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If Pit Lord has 2000 power level, I’d just use a weak creature like Three-Sword Warrior(an energy cost of only 2) and attack it. Both die. You’ve wasted 9 energy, I’ve wasted only 2.

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Vodoo Lock can be a deathblow to certain creatures. For example, the Leviathan Boomer is the main protector of the extremely powerful Icewraiths in the Water Starter Deck. The Boomer can only protect Icewraiths WITH ITS GUARDIAN SKILL. If someone VLocked the Boomer, the Icewraith would be exposed and the Boomer would be useless as it can’t attack.

Although I agree that putting 75 as the cost for Chronophage was manic, you clearly have no sense of energy numbers and balance. Like suggesting 15 for Chronophage. Do you realize how easy it is to get 7? That does not merit a insta 7500 attack, complete heal and intangibility, and locking the opponent’s deck and hand up with fear of just 1 card. Also, if it was facing 2 Creatures (as would the norm be as Assassin could be summoned surprisingly easy, contrary to your opinion.) then nothing existing can kill Assassin after it has hit the enemy. 3000 is also not that bad, it can survive like 1/4 of the opposition atm.

2. Your point? Isn’t that what is desired and expected?

3. You just admitted its situational. Darkness is supposed to have great spells. Spells “on the verge of OP.”

 
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New Darkness Example Spell

Mutation
Energy Cost: 6
Pick any monster on the field. Ally, or opponent. If you choose an ally you have a 75% to gain +2000 power and a 25% to lose 1500 power. (10% to lose a random skill.) If you choose an opponent you have a 75% to lose 1000 power and a 25% to gain 1500 power. (10% to lose a random skill.)

Would this be considered a darkness spell?

 
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Willing to Beta Test.

Card idea:

Nuclear Failure
Energy cost: 7
Power level: 5000
Abilities:
Overheating (Passive)
Has a 25% chance to explode. 2000 Power level. Hurts both sides. Remove 1 random monster from each side.
Radioactivity (Passive)
Poisons both sides with a Power level of 500, for 5 turns.
Spillage
Choose a monster. That monster is targeted with a radioactive spillage, and its Power level is reduced by 1500 for 3 turns.

P.S. I think I could make a poison deck, if you want. Not now though.

 
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Wait a second I just thought of something really important to gameplay.

Do abilities/skills cost energy? (excluding passives unless the passive needs energy to perform.)