[Mafia] Shattered Soul (Finished) page 3 (locked)

321 posts

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(devourer)

FoS Adeeb for implying that this would be a good lynch.

I should have labeled that as a joke. I wasn’t actually going to support a bandwagon led on you on that cause.

Note that Vara’s statement said “at least one”, meaning that it’s a null tell in all directions.

Obviously.

While I normally wouldn’t FoS someone for pointing this out, I doubt that you would make such a terrible townie.

How, pray tell me, am I a terrible townie? That seems like a preemptive statement when I have neither voted nor FoS’d you, and really, that seems like an awfully paranoid statement to me. How does contributing to the thread with my opinion make me a terrible townie?

And it doesn’t seem like good bait, a discussion starter, or a joke to me.

Again, as I said, you are really overreacting to the statement.

With activity as it typically is and sheep as they typically are, baiting with this would pull negligible results.

So you are expecting an extreme lack of activity and sheeping? Not very optimistic for a townie.

And if it was just a discussion starter or a joke, you wouldn’t imply that you were willing to test a lynch yourself.

As I said above, it was a joke. I was joking about the GM’s comment about how we could possibly get discussion started in the game. Seems to take an awful lot to get through to you.

Furthermore, as a scum, it wouldn’t be such a bad decision to make as you are not creating suspicion yourself, coercing others to look for it instead.

Valid point, but then, I wouldn’t have mentioned that I’d be willing to test the theory out personally, yes? I also didn’t say that I am suspicious of you particularly (I was only pointing out how the GM’s note could be interpreted that way), and so someone would have to get the wagon rolling on you. From that POV, this could easily have been bait.

Though it actually wasn’t. It was a joke.

It makes perfect sense though, giving the responses that have been given to him in countless other mafias. Jask starting an RQS has almost always ended up with him being attacked for being Jask. I don’t see why it’s suspicious or warranting of a vote for him to attempt to avoid this.

Countless other mafias? I recall WRE (where the argument was actually against RQS itself), but I can’t recall any others where he got attacked explicitly for making an RQS. There is a difference between playing carefully and playing way too defensively.


(RQS)

1. How dedicated will you be to this mafia? Are you willing to put in time for activity and to think/interpret posts?

Not sure. With exams ongoing, I’ll hardly get any time on Kong these days.

2 will be answered at the end when I am done with the RQS and know what it contains.

3. As a townie, do you prioritize your survival or the scumhunt? Why?

Scumhunting, especially in a setup where scum can NK. Ten to one, I get borked early by scum anyway, but that’s not the main reason. When it comes to survival, the only reason I’d want to survive is to maintain town bulk. From that PoV, any townie that is alive will automatically contribute to town bulk. Scumhunting is a different avenue where not anyone is going to participate actively, but which is essential to make sure that townies don’t get borked at night.

If I get attacked, I naturally prioritize my survival, as me getting lynched won’t help town in any way, but it is always more important for a townie to keep a lookout for someone acting sus.

4. What do you think WIFOM is (as in a definition)? Please don’t just link me to mafiascum or something.

WIFOM, IMO, is like playing tennis with yourself. You keep hitting the ball over the net and can’t actually let it drop in either court confidently. It isn’t actually useless, but it is largely exaggerated sometimes. You are never really sure whether that guy is applying Reverse Psychology or Reverse Reverse Psychology or Reverse Reverse Reverse Psychology and so on.

In endgame, WIFOM draws discussion out, and sometimes, though not always, you can reach a useful conclusion on who is best for lynching.

5. Are night kills reliable sources of evidence?

No. Nor is a random pattern of NKing, IMO. It is difficult to be sure about whether an NK pattern is random or intended, and that nearly got me lynched in Blackout (I think), where I wasn’t actually scum. People (I suspect some of them were scum tho :p) thought that I was scum because I was the only one clever enough to NK randomly.

6. How do you feel about the mafia activity at FGF?

No comment. It is pretty damn awful, but not the worse I’ve seen. What’s problematic isn’t the activity. What’s problematic is the lack of interest towards playing the game properly, or making an attempt to do so. Many people like to lurk and avoid getting questioned and that’s what leads to the game stagnating.

7. Generally, is it worth it to lynch an inactive player? In this mafia, is it worth it to lynch an inactive player?

Depends. If NKs aren’t happening, chances are that scum is inactive. If you don’t think anyone active is scum, chances are that scum is inactive/lurking.

In this mafia, not yet. I can’t tell for later, but I guess we’ll see. If it does come to a phase when we think that the rest of the actives are all townies, I guess.

8. What do you think of Vara’s discussion protip?

You can probably tell from my joke. I don’t find it an optimal solution to our lack of discussion simply because it singles out devourer from others. A random vote or even this RQS may be far more useful.

9. Are there any players that you are especially watchful/careful of in this mafia?

devourer359, Jaskaran and CF are only a handful of them. I am always careful around SE as well, since he tends to be a pretty unreadable scum.

10. Is paranoia a scumtell?

Not necessarily, but it sometimes is. It is a weak scumtell, since scum are always paranoid about leaving tells behind them. Paranoia is also a pretty good blind for your alignment since townies are supposedly more paranoid than scum, and so excessive paranoia might be indicative of acting paranoid.

11. What are your feelings on the Joke Phase?

Not sure. Discussion needs to start off somehow in a mafia, and if a joke phase does it, that’s not bad. If the game devolves into an eternal joke phase, that’s bad.

2. Do you think that RQS is useful? Why or why not?

I find it useful, because it has several meta-related questions, though I am not sure whether scum will be making any noticeable slips through it directly. As always, it will hopefully boost activity, and there is some food for thought in Q7/Q9.


(DAZ)

Firstly, he gets attacked no matter how he acts, for the simple reason people hate him. [Other Mafias, The Elimination Game, etc.]. Thus it would make sense that he would be a bit defensive.

I do not excuse people on a meta that I am not even sure about. As I have mentioned above, as a townie, it is a duty to scumhunt. Discussion leads to scumhunting, and if you are afraid to start discussion, you are either scum or a bad townie.

Secondly, although I don’t play mafia much, I feel like AdeebNafees isn’t acting like his normal self.

Since you don’t play mafia much, you can’t really say that, but since dev says the same, I guess you guys might be right, and exams are finally getting to me. Makes me wonder if I should have stayed on the bench for this mafia.

He has never done the expression :o in chat…and in the forums either, AFAIK.

I do that in chat. If you had seen me do it, you’d also know what I was trying to express, since nearly all of my random votes get accompanied by that convenient smiley.

I’d say another name, but I don’t want to hurt his feelings [though I think we all know who I’m talking about].

Jask?


(CF)

THEREFORE HE MUST BE SCUM.

WAY 2 DAM SURE


(Jask)

I don’t see why you would want to lynch devourer, what vara stated should be common sense, reverse-psycho and all that shtuff doesn’t fall in this.

I’d lynch devourer precisely because the mod separates him out of the crowd. It was a joke, but it fell as flat as a pancake. As flat as- Nah, that’s inappropriate.

I know I’ve done it, so anyone else can do it.

That’s weird. Is that laziness or paranoia?

I’ve been voted for, for proposing a questionaire, which usually continues to get me lynched, as you can understand, being town, it would be better to get scum lynched rather than let myself, being a townie, get lynched, which may cause town to lose.

Examples?

So, you’re gonna vote for enough reason for a FoS, but not a vote, unlike you.

Lol@repetition of Chosen Mafia.

I don’t see how I am “fishy” with my overly defensive play, when I simply want town to win.

Not very apparent with that defensive post.

[Vote: AdeebNafees] until he provides other reasons than being “overly defensive” and just some voice in his head telling him to do so.

It was also a random vote intended to check your reaction, and you acted pretty weirdly, honestly. You did mention:

(Jask posted earlier)

I won’t do it, due to people being suspicious on me for doing it in mafias and voting me, which is followed by me OMGUSing.

OMGUSing is not always good town play, so it is strange that you should mention it as one of the reasons why you weren’t going to start a RVS, and then performing what seems like an OMGUS vote on me. Course, you did claim that you are sus of me because of my incomplete reasoning, but I don’t see any reason why you should be especially sus of that. Your defense doesn’t impress me much either, though that’s probably because I can’t remember how many times you got lynched for making an RQS D1.

Why have you felt the need to mention this?

I guess he was following your advice of:

(Jask posted earlier)

DAZ, this is a game, please share your opinions properly


(Woon)

Just one of his many evil plans that he will grandly reveal later in the game.

I am gratified, though that’s because you posted twice in the same page.

And how’d you ever know?


(Jask)

That “Hmm” means you must’ve went through some sort of thought process before proposing that question, and as I am obliged to know that thought process, would you be so kind to tell us what was your thought process before proposing that question?

That’s a late quote, which makes me think whether you went back through my post looking for more things to solidify your vote on me.

The “hmm” was me considering the line, and imagining myself saying that in a mafia. I’d have to be paranoid to say that.


(Woon)

When AN goes all weirdshit on you, you gotta expect something :|

How is my vote ‘weirdshit’?


(SE)

AN going wierdshit = 9 times out of 10 he is scum (I believe.)

Out with it, my man. Are you, or are you not suspicious of me in the context of this mafia? Just saying that AN acting weirdly makes him likely to be scum is like saying that Pooh having a full belly makes it likely that there’s an empty honeycomb in the 100 acres wood.

It’s unlike you when you don’t leap down someone’s throat with every post.

 
Flag Post

Nothing new to add, but I can say that devourer’s overreacting to things. It was pretty obvious that what Adeeb said was a joke, and even if he is scum, he would’t be dumb enough to make a mistake like that.

THEREFORE DEVOURER IS PULLING THE OVERDEFENSIVE STRAT TO GET ADEEB LYNCHED

I’m kind of annoyed that so many people can’t determine whether a subject is a joke or not. devourer can usually figure them out by himself, and this one’s fairly obvious to detect. I’m gonna say that devourer’s acting more strange than Adeeb this game.

 
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(Jask)

So, you’re gonna vote for enough reason for a FoS, but not a vote, unlike you.

What determines whether or not a FoS or a vote should be used? The answer, imo, is nothing. A person shouldn’t be suspicious for choosing a vote (note: a vote that isn’t on a bandwagon) over a FoS, as they are both tools anyways.

Yes, but the chances are that we wouldn’t find it, and would actually blame it on anyone else.

Isn’t that the case for any form of scumhunting? Why prevent this situation just because of a chance of failure?

wat, no

Perhaps I should have included this in the question, but why not?

DAZ, this is a game, please share your opinions properly, it isn’t about having someone feel hurt, it’s about playing with sportsmanship.

With the given context, I find this statement amusing.

Please answer the questionaire.

It’s not going to happen.


(SE)

AN going wierdshit = 9 times out of 10 he is scum (I believe.)

And do you have proof of this? And how exactly do you think he’s behaving strangely?


(Adeeb)

How, pray tell me, am I a terrible townie?

Remember that I didn’t interpret your post as a joke. In other words, I believed that you were honestly advocating a lynch based on small evidence.

So you are expecting an extreme lack of activity and sheeping? Not very optimistic for a townie.

I’m not an optimist, and I don’t see what this has to do with anything. Seriously, what does optimism have to do with being a townie?

Again, as I said, you are really overreacting to the statement.

It seems more like you’re overreacting, with all the repetition, defense, and attempts to AtE me. When I see a weird statement, isn’t it only natural for me to attempt to interpret all of it’s possible uses, especially coming from you?

Seems to take an awful lot to get through to you.

Funny. The only statement I had to get through to me before this post was the joke itself. It’s strange that you’re posting this as if we had a longer discussion about this.

I wouldn’t have mentioned that I’d be willing to test the theory out personally, yes? I also didn’t say that I am suspicious of you particularly

I fail to see the difference between these two.

I also didn’t say that I am suspicious of you particularly (I was only pointing out how the GM’s note could be interpreted that way), and so someone would have to get the wagon rolling on you.

The phrase “anyone else” tends to imply that you yourself is supportive of the lynch.

Countless other mafias?

“Countless” would be a failure in word choice on my part. There has been multiple times in which his RQS have failed just because of his reputation though. Unfortunately, I can’t provide any links, as I also can’t remember any specifics. He has, however, shown hesitation in Relationships Mafia, in which he was town.

What’s problematic isn’t the activity. What’s problematic is the lack of interest towards playing the game properly

And the lack of interest creates inactivity. Aren’t they one in the same?

Lol@repetition of Chosen Mafia.

Please explain the situation surrounding this.


(CowFriend)

It was pretty obvious that what Adeeb said was a joke

It’s funny that you mention this after Adeeb revealed it as a joke and not before in your previous post.

It was pretty obvious that what Adeeb said was a joke

Please explain where in his post made that statement an obvious joke.

and even if he is scum, he would’t be dumb enough to make a mistake like that.

Hence the reason I didn’t vote him?

THEREFORE DEVOURER IS PULLING THE OVERDEFENSIVE STRAT TO GET ADEEB LYNCHED

I’m deliberately showing scumtells to lynch someone?


(RQS)

How dedicated will you be to this mafia? Are you willing to put in time for activity and to think/interpret posts?

As dedicated as I usually am. Honestly, my activity may drop later when my procrastination catches up to me though.

Do you think that RQS is useful? Why or why not?

If I didn’t think it was useful, I wouldn’t use it. I feel that it encourages discussion indirectly.

As a townie, do you prioritize your survival or the scumhunt? Why?

Honestly, this depends on how the mafia is run. If the mafia allows for wins after death (like this one), I’ll definitely prioritize the scumhunt due to how much more important it is than my one life. If the mafia doesn’t, I would prioritize both equally, as both are equally important to winning.

What do you think WIFOM is (as in a definition)? Please don’t just link me to mafiascum or something.

WIFOM is when there are multiple sides to something, when something considered could have two possibilites involving reverse psychology, leading to recursive thinking.

Are night kills reliable sources of evidence?

NK’s are definitely not reliable sources, but they can serve as evidence to boost an already strong argument. Note that I say “already strong”; imo, NK’s should never be used alone as evidence for a lynch.

How do you feel about the mafia activity at FGF?

Bad. Honestly, it annoys me how someone can sign up for something and not even put in a small amount of effort.

Generally, is it worth it to lynch an inactive player? In this mafia, is it worth it to lynch an inactive player?

Generally, no. When there is discussion on the table, that should be pursued instead of an excuse lynch on an inactive. Inactives should be left to night abilities or the modkill (if they’re truly inactive and not just lurkers).

In this mafia, I feel that there could be a situation where lynching an inactive could be worth it. In the case where we’re confident that active players are all innocent and the case where the inactive is simply lurking and avoiding the modkill, it may be worth it to lynch the inactives, especially if there’s only a few of them. After all, there’s no alternative as we have no vig or cop.

What do you think of Vara’s discussion protip?

Useless. I already mentioned this.

Are there any players that you are especially watchful/careful of in this mafia?

As one player, there would be Adeeb. I would be watchful of him in any mafia, due to the fact that I typically have a hard time reading him. And in this one, I’m getting strange vibes from his behavior. I’m willing to hold on to the possibility that his statement was a joke and that his vote was partially bait, but I’ll keep an eye on him until I obtain a complete picture of his actions.

There’s also CowFriend and Jask, due to their playstyles. I don’t think that this needs too much elaboration.

Is paranoia a scumtell?

I’m a little hesitant to make a decision on this one. While I feel that all factions can be paranoid, I have been tricked into thinking a scum’s actions were normal with the excuse of paranoia in the past. Currently, I think that paranoia is a scumtell unless it comes with good reason.

What are your feelings on the Joke Phase?

Honestly, I don’t hate the Joke Phase as much as a lot of others started to. I just feel like it’s extremely limited in what it accomplishes, in that the VI or SI is usually the one that ends up lynched.

 
Flag Post

It’s funny that you mention this after Adeeb revealed it as a joke and not before in your previous post.

It’s funny because you shouldn’t need people to tell you it’s a joke for it to be a joke.

Please explain where in his post made that statement an obvious joke.

Adeeb is a serious mafia player, anything that leaks obvious scumtell is probably intentional/non-serious.

Hence the reason I didn’t vote him?

Yet you had this heavy suspicion that he’s scum when he’s clearly joking.

 
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By the way, forgot to add: Context is everything in anything. It’s the start of a new mafia game, expect there to be joke posts. I didn’t need to jump on Adeeb for that post because I knew what he was doing.

 
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(CF)

THEREFORE DEVOURER IS PULLING THE OVERDEFENSIVE STRAT TO GET ADEEB LYNCHED

Every time you use those caps…

…a bunny dies somewhere.


(devourer)

A person shouldn’t be suspicious for choosing a vote (note: a vote that isn’t on a bandwagon) over a FoS, as they are both tools anyways.

Can you clarify the note?

With the given context, I find this statement amusing.

My brain is probably woozy, but why do you find it amusing?

In other words, I believed that you were honestly advocating a lynch based on small evidence.

I kind of see, though I still don’t like the way you leaped down my throat SE-style. Not the way you usually play. Also, I’d have been more forceful if I was advocating the lynch, not just making an off-hand remark about it.

Seriously, what does optimism have to do with being a townie?

It doesn’t have to do with just being a townie, on hindsight. It has to do with playing the game well. If you have an attitude of failure towards something, it doesn’t make things easier. If you have a positive attitude towards the game, chances are that you are going to take thinks a lot more seriously. If you believe that everyone in the game is going to sheep towards every wagon’s that created, that means that making a wagon is itself enough to guarantee a lynch on pretty much anyone, and a townie shouldn’t have that kind of attitude towards the lynch.

It seems more like you’re overreacting, with all the repetition, defense, and attempts to AtE me.

I might be, but you are the one that started it, and pushed me off the edge. My defense is that I was joking, and I don’t think I repeated it so many times that it merits a mention. As for attempts to AtE, I beg to differ. I have merely pointed out that you are behaving in a paranoid manner that is not how you normally play. I have also mentioned that your viewpoint towards the game doesn’t seem to me like that of a good townie, considering you are one.

The only statement I had to get through to me before this post was the joke itself. It’s strange that you’re posting this as if we had a longer discussion about this.

Uh-huh. That’s a point, but actually, I was referring to your whole post, where you dedicated a pretty big bit on me. I don’t know for sure, of course, but while writing it, you must have gone over my joke multiple times, and therefore, it seemed strange to me that you wouldn’t notice the jocular tone to it.

I fail to see the difference between these two.

Quote completely.

I am not entirely sure that I understand your question. Rephrase?

The phrase “anyone else” tends to imply that you yourself is supportive of the lynch.

“Anyone else tempted to”, not “anyone else want to” check out the lynch. Any reason not to believe that I wasn’t joking?

He has, however, shown hesitation in Relationships Mafia, in which he was town.

Relationships doesn’t count in my opinion, since we were all town, firstly, and he was pretty much the scum of the game with his DKs and stuff.

Also, one game isn’t enough for a meta, and I still don’t see what should prevent Jask from trying to start a convo, or why you would try to defend his stand on that point. A coupla links would have been nice, but since you can’t provide them, I’ll try to look some up myself.

And the lack of interest creates inactivity. Aren’t they one in the same?

Not lack of interest. Lack of interest in playing the game properly. They are willing to get into the thread, check the last few posts and make small comments. They aren’t willing to go through past posts and look for possible patterns. There’s a difference.

If there wasn’t any interest, no one would sign up for these.

Please explain the situation surrounding this.

Simply put, I put in a vote on Jask in order to pressure him a bit, on a pretty small wagon too. Jask went OMGUS on me, and I got lynched in the end. Jask was scum in that game, and I was town.

It’s funny that you mention this after Adeeb revealed it as a joke and not before in your previous post.

You seem to be getting better at detecting jokes with all your ’it’s funny’s

Hence the reason I didn’t vote him?

Not sure if same context, but:

(Devourer said earlier)

What determines whether or not a FoS or a vote should be used? The answer, imo, is nothing.


I’m deliberately showing scumtells to lynch someone?

You admit that your behavior can be interpreted as scumtells? :S

As one player, there would be Adeeb. I would be watchful of him in any mafia, due to the fact that I typically have a hard time reading him.

D’awww.

Love you too devourer

While I feel that all factions can be paranoid, I have been tricked into thinking a scum’s actions were normal with the excuse of paranoia in the past.

Could this trickster possibly have been Knoob?

Currently, I think that paranoia is a scumtell unless it comes with good reason.

What would you accept as a good reason for paranoia?


(CF)

I didn’t need to jump on Adeeb for that post because I knew what he was doing.

Should have defended me when devourer attacked me then, hmm?

 
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I promise I’ll go through the thread today. I’ve been so busy with HEROES in the last couple days I just haven’t had the time to do this, but I will do it today.

 
Flag Post

I am gratified, though that’s because you posted twice in the same page.
And how’d you ever know?

Why thank you
Because you have always been an evil mastermind and I am deathly scared of you.

 
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Every time you use those caps…
…a bunny dies somewhere.

Screw bunnies anyway. Cows are the only being that needs to live in this world.

 
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(CowFriend)

Adeeb is a serious mafia player, anything that leaks obvious scumtell is probably intentional/non-serious.

So you believe that Adeeb can’t make scumslips?

Yet you had this heavy suspicion that he’s scum when he’s clearly joking.

Please explain how you interpreted it to be a heavy suspicion. The point of the post was to receive a response.

Context is everything in anything. It’s the start of a new mafia game, expect there to be joke posts.

There has been plenty of exceptions to this.


Can you clarify the note?

Not sure if same context, but:

I’ll answer this in the same section, as it’ll be a similar response anyways. I consider votes (again, if not a bandwagon vote) and FoS’s both tools to pressure/tunnel, especially this early in the game. A person shouldn’t be suspicious for choosing one over the other, as they both serve the same purpose anyways. However, a vote happens to have a stronger influence than a FoS, for obvious reasons. And because all I wanted was a response/explanation, I only provided evidence and a FoS.

My brain is probably woozy, but why do you find it amusing?

Jask is asking DAZ to tell him that he’s watchful of Jask. I may just be interpreting DAZ wrong, but it seems like the most likely result. In other words, off-topic comment.

Not the way you usually play.

Elaborate on how I usually play.

If you have an attitude of failure towards something, it doesn’t make things easier.

I’m not an optimist. That doesn’t mean that I’m a pessimist.

If you believe that everyone in the game is going to sheep towards every wagon’s that created, that means that making a wagon is itself enough to guarantee a lynch on pretty much anyone, and a townie shouldn’t have that kind of attitude towards the lynch.

I’ve argued that wagons are stoppable in the past. I hold that stance, and that is not what I meant by my post. If bait is sheeped after by plenty of townies, with no true lead to the lynch, whoever is scum becomes almost indistinguishable.

I might be, but you are the one that started it, and pushed me off the edge.

Is that a problem? Should a player not be pressured?

My defense is that I was joking, and I don’t think I repeated it so many times that it merits a mention.

Oh? I think I understand the point that you’re joking after I hear it once. Ignoring rephrasings in the same sections, I don’t think I needed to hear that you were joking three times in different ways.

and therefore, it seemed strange to me that you wouldn’t notice the jocular tone to it.

So you’re switching to a stance where your joke was easily interpretable? Back in your previous post, you mentioned that you may not have been playing normally. It seems strange for your stance to take a sudden jump several times.

I am not entirely sure that I understand your question. Rephrase?

What’s the difference between a willingness to test out a theory on someone and suspiciousness of someone? Remember that the point was whether or not you would have been willing to vote, and having either wouldn’t have made a difference.

“Anyone else tempted to”, not “anyone else want to” check out the lynch. Any reason not to believe that I wasn’t joking?

You have so many stances now; I’m getting confused. First you say that your statement could have been interpreted as a willingness to test out the lynch. And now you say that it can’t be because of a small difference in semantics? Am I supposed to note the subtle difference between “tempted” and “want” when I read a post?

and he was pretty much the scum of the game with his DKs and stuff.

But did he know that?

Also, one game isn’t enough for a meta

I know that, which is why I said that it was unfortunate that I couldn’t provide any links.

or why you would try to defend his stand on that point.

I’m not defending his stance (that he should avoid RQS out of fear); I’m attacking the belief that that stance is scummy.

Not lack of interest. Lack of interest in playing the game properly. They are willing to get into the thread, check the last few posts and make small comments. They aren’t willing to go through past posts and look for possible patterns. There’s a difference.

Meh, it’s a difference in the way we interpret the word “inactivity”. I’ll mark this as another reason why semantics shouldn’t play a role in your defense.

You seem to be getting better at detecting jokes with all your ’it’s funny’s

Wait, so those were all jokes? Excuse me while I go get a bag of ice for my head.

You admit that your behavior can be interpreted as scumtells? :S

Anything can be interpreted as a scumtell. If my behavior couldn’t be interpreted as a scumtell, it wouldn’t be under discussion. However, in this case, I was rephrasing CowFriend’s (what I assume to be a) joke as a rhetorical question. On the note of how I can’t tell if it was a joke, I can’t currently tell whether or not he interprets me as a VI or a scum. I would like him to explain his stance on me.

Could this trickster possibly have been Knoob?

Yep.

What would you accept as a good reason for paranoia?

A MyLo. I know I would be paranoid.

 
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EBWOP: The quotes after the page break are attributed to Adeeb.

 
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So you believe that Adeeb can’t make scumslips?

No, but there’s no reason for Adeeb to post that if he was seriously considering getting you lynched. It has no concrete support, it’s nearly impossible to start a bandwagon just because of that.

Please explain how you interpreted it to be a heavy suspicion. The point of the post was to receive a response.

Why put up such a big post to reply to that little snippet of text, then? That entire response was comprised of you not taking it as a joke and expanding from there. You even formed a theory on why he would be doing it as a scum. It was an unnecessary overreaction to a lynch bait that would never succeed (assuming that Adeeb was actually even serious about that).

There has been plenty of exceptions to this.

And you really think that Adeeb would try to start an ineffective bandwagon to make himself look like a scum?

 
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Some questions:
1. CowFriend, what is your stance on me?
2. Adeeb, you mention that I’m playing strangely. Do you consider that a scumtell?


(CowFriend)

Why put up such a big post to reply to that little snippet of text, then?

Why not? Is there a problem with elaboration? As said before, it didn’t seem like a joke to me; therefore, I had to consider all other possibilities.

It was an unnecessary overreaction to a lynch bait that would never succeed (assuming that Adeeb was actually even serious about that).

From what I can understand, it was a joke. Didn’t you say yourself that it was an obvious joke?

And you really think that Adeeb would try to start an ineffective bandwagon to make himself look like a scum?

If it started off, would it really be an ineffective bandwagon? With a small and mostly ignorable comment that can be written off as a joke, the cause of the lynch could be written off to someone else and the blame could be dodged if failed. I admit that I no longer hold the opinion that his statement was a scumslip, but there’s really no other way for his statement to be interpreted if it wasn’t seen as a joke.

Going back to the original point, even considering that joke posts should be expected in D1, what destroys the possibility that posts can be anything else other than jokes? What destroys the possibility that his statement could have been bait for scum? Why is his post so obviously a joke and not anything else? I may not support the chances of that bait working, but the possibility still exists, a possibility that Adeeb himself confirms as possible.

 
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Sorry, no time today. But I promise you’ll get a post tomorrow. I promise.

 
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From what I can understand, it was a joke. Didn’t you say yourself that it was an obvious joke?

That’s why I said “assuming that Adeeb was actually even serious”. I know it was a joke, but it was strange to me that you would think he was a scum and not joking at that specific time you posted that.

If it started off, would it really be an ineffective bandwagon?

The question is, has it gone off yet?

What destroys the possibility that his statement could have been bait for scum?

Do you honestly believe that Adeeb’s statement will hold any stance on your likelihood of getting lynched? As I said before, context is everything. We can agree that Adeeb is experienced enough to not show obvious scumtells like that, right?

CowFriend, what is your stance on me?

MUST BE SCUM LOL

 
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(CowFriend)

The question is, has it gone off yet?

With discussion on the path it has reached, this shouldn’t even be considered.

Do you honestly believe that Adeeb’s statement will hold any stance on your likelihood of getting lynched? As I said before, context is everything. We can agree that Adeeb is experienced enough to not show obvious scumtells like that, right?

I fail to understand how this has anything to do with baiting scum. The more you respond, the more we deviate from the original question. Consider a situation in which an ambiguous joke is made on D1. Is a joke the only way that joke can be interpreted? Can’t it be interpreted as a discussion starter, bait, etc.?

No, I do not believe that Adeeb’s statement alone can cause a lynch on me. But as I say once again, I did not interpret it as a joke. Wouldn’t the best choice in this case be to consider the possibilities and prompt a response? We can consider the opinion that Adeeb is experienced enough to avoid obvious scumslips, but when we do, we once again reach the dilemna above.

 
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(Devourer)

Jask is asking DAZ to tell him that he’s watchful of Jask. I may just be interpreting DAZ wrong, but it seems like the most likely result. In other words, off-topic comment.

Pretty much this.

AdeebNafees ~ Not the way you usually play. Devourer359 ~ Elaborate on how I usually play.

Analysing master. Tons of quotes/answers. Very active mafia player.

(Cowfriend)

So um, what’s with his caps?


Let me ask you guys some questions:

1) Opinion on AN?
2) Opinion on Dev?

 
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(devourer)

I consider votes (again, if not a bandwagon vote) and FoS’s both tools to pressure/tunnel, especially this early in the game. A person shouldn’t be suspicious for choosing one over the other, as they both serve the same purpose anyways. However, a vote happens to have a stronger influence than a FoS, for obvious reasons. And because all I wanted was a response/explanation, I only provided evidence and a FoS.

OIC.

Elaborate on how I usually play.

I can’t detail your whole playing style because it does change, and it will be FMPOV. However, from what I’ve seen in the past mafias I have played with you, you don’t usually FoS someone just because they mentioned a joke. FMPOV, the joke was recognizable, so I found your reference to it as a scumtell (I assumed so since you FoS’d me for that) strange.

I’m not an optimist. That doesn’t mean that I’m a pessimist.

I thought it was implied :S

If bait is sheeped after by plenty of townies, with no true lead to the lynch, whoever is scum becomes almost indistinguishable.

Do you think baits are always inactive in FGF?

Is that a problem? Should a player not be pressured?

Never said it was problem. Was explaining why I reacted. Townies can react under pressure, as you probably saw in Dual Mafia (your case) and Relationships (Jask). Players should be pressured, sure. I don’t like being called a terrible townie.

Ignoring rephrasings in the same sections, I don’t think I needed to hear that you were joking three times in different ways.

I didn’t proofread what I said, or I might have noted the tautology. As it was, I went step by step, and mentioned that I had joked every time I answered a statement related to it.

So you’re switching to a stance where your joke was easily interpretable? Back in your previous post, you mentioned that you may not have been playing normally.

I previously had a stance where my joke wasn’t easily interpretable?

Quote-a bene.

What’s the difference between a willingness to test out a theory on someone and suspiciousness of someone?

The difference is apparent in case of a policy lynch. I’d be willing to, for example, lynch Wooneh in a mafia full of mostly inactives because of how she is likelier to show the same behavioral patterns regardless of alignment. Suspiciousness of someone is when you find a scumtell on someone and think that they are actually hiding something.

First you say that your statement could have been interpreted as a willingness to test out the lynch.

As a willingness to policy lynch.

And now you say that it can’t be because of a small difference in semantics?

I am pretty sure you misinterpreted my answer. I am saying that it could also have been interpreted as a joke, and would likelier have been a joke in the context of the comment.

Am I supposed to note the subtle difference between “tempted” and “want” when I read a post?

I guess?

But did he know that?

He did know that he could do away with another player at any time. The point is still there that he didn’t get lynched because of his RQS. He got lynched because he brainburped.

I know that, which is why I said that it was unfortunate that I couldn’t provide any links.

Mhm.

I’m attacking the belief that that stance is scummy.

I still find that stance scummy because a townie would want to initiate discussion anyhoo. An RQS would have been a useful tool in that case.

I’ll mark this as another reason why semantics shouldn’t play a role in your defense.

Are we interpreting semantics differently here? Semantics refers to correct interpretation of the meaning of a statement, right? In that case, shouldn’t semantics be useful if someone is misinterpreting you somewhere? I think that’s partly why Jask started his “elaborate please” campaign, though that was a bit over the top.

Wait, so those were all jokes? Excuse me while I go get a bag of ice for my head.

Have fun on the way since I have tripwires installed all over the house.

Why you quote my struck through lines grah

Anything can be interpreted as a scumtell. If my behavior couldn’t be interpreted as a scumtell, it wouldn’t be under discussion.

I want to say “but that makes scumtells useless since anything can be interpreted as scumtells”, but I think I know what you mean unfortunately

However, in this case, I was rephrasing CowFriend’s (what I assume to be a) joke as a rhetorical question.

Rhetorical questions are bad. They are way to misinterpretable and easily interpretable as scumtells. I need to google Plato on that.

On the note of how I can’t tell if it was a joke, I can’t currently tell whether or not he interprets me as a VI or a scum. I would like him to explain his stance on me.

I personally don’t find you a VI, if it makes you feel better.

Yep.

Why did I know that so well? I played Corrupted lololol

A MyLo. I know I would be paranoid.

Not LyLo? IC.

2. Adeeb, you mention that I’m playing strangely. Do you consider that a scumtell?

If I did, devourer, you wouldn’t be walking about without a FoS on you. I don’t really find you scummy, just strange, as I have mentioned before, but someone being strange is not necessarily scummy. There can be tons of reasons why someone’s behaving strangely, and I kinda know most of the things that can set you off and make you unable to play the way you usually do, like exams, little voice in head, sickness cetera.

I am just looking closely at you and it has nothing to do with me being infatuated, which I am not because I don’t trust you a bit after reading through Vanilla Mafia. I also found the small defense of Jask, though it did make sense, a bit weird, but no conclusions in that sector either.

Overinterpreting the joke was weird too, but you didn’t vote me directly, which is still like you, so I guess I haven’t made up my mind on you yet.

With a small and mostly ignorable comment that can be written off as a joke, the cause of the lynch could be written off to someone else and the blame could be dodged if failed. I admit that I no longer hold the opinion that his statement was a scumslip, but there’s really no other way for his statement to be interpreted if it wasn’t seen as a joke.

I am not Knoob, actually, but that’s a sensible idea, I guess… Over in Corrupted, I recall you nearly getting Knoob lynched (and he was scum too, I guess..) because of that little push on the CF/whoever wagon, and I also got lynched on a similar comment, though I was only mentioning how townies should always vote (it is funny because I was trying to advise IE on how to play and not thinking like scum ATM :( )

How would someone initiate the wagon on you, though? Especially based on that comment (Knoob’s comment in Corrupted was much more to the point. Something like ‘he rings like a VI to me but could be scum’, whereas my comment, if taken seriously, advocates an already unlikely policy lynch).


(CF)

MUST BE SCUM LOL

Is that a derp or did you catch a tell?


(DAZ)

Analysing master. Tons of quotes/answers. Very active mafia player.

If that describes me, I only like the part that says I am a very active mafia player.

Do I need to answer the question(s)? Can you answer your own questions too? Honestly, I’d like to hear what a fourth party thinks about this once in a while since I seem to be looking at the same names again and again.

 
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Bump post.

Originally posted by Woon1957:

As therapy to cure my horrid play in mafias, I’ll sign.
However, if I don’t make at at least one post every single real-life day, you have my permission to slap, torture or murder me horribly.

Statistics:

  • Real life days since woon’s last post: 3

 
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Real life days since woon’s last post: 3

I was on a horrible holiday for 2 days, and I’m starting school tomorrow.

You can absolutely do all three suggestions right now.

 
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1) Opinion on AN?
2) Opinion on Dev?

1) Evil
2) Dick – Oh the other one? Evil.

 
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Originally posted by Woon1957:

You can absolutely do all three suggestions right now.

Too bad, we’ve got this no-death-no-harming clause in the opening post.

Originally posted by Vara:

This game will never kill or physically injure anyone in real life.

 
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Okay, time to start. I’m going to start by answering the "R"QS and then continue off by analyzing each player in their own.


["R"QS]

1. How dedicated will you be to this mafia? Are you willing to put in time for activity and to think/interpret posts?

Well, you’ve seen my activity so far. I promise that I will try to be more active.

2. Do you think that RQS is useful? Why or why not?

Really, hugely depends on the questions. Also, I think certain questions should be asked again a couple ingame days later to see whether the players’ opinion has changed or not, and if it has changed, how much.

3. As a townie, do you prioritize your survival or the scumhunt? Why?

Well, because I have won so many mafias, people have some kind of a grudge against me and I’m usually dead by day 3 if I’m town. I’ve noticed this AND NO, DON’T ASK ME FOR EXAMPLES. THERE ARE TOO MANY.

So I’d prioritize on scumhunt.

4. What do you think WIFOM is (as in a definition)? Please don’t just link me to mafiascum or something.

Wine In Front Of Me. I’m (confirmed) town, there’s three players left, two town, one mafia. The other players are voting each other and I need to break the tie. One of the other players has been rather scummy over the game whereas the other has been totally null on the scumtell radar, because of very neutral posts. Who should I vote?

5. Are night kills reliable sources of evidence?

At late-game when there are few players left, yes, because then killing the right people in the means of lowering suspicion is truly important for the mafia. In early-game, not really, because the mafia can just be killing unusual targets.

6. How do you feel about the mafia activity at FGF?

It’s okay.

7. Generally, is it worth it to lynch an inactive player? In this mafia, is it worth it to lynch an inactive player?

Generally, really depends on the amount of suspicious players. If active players are all rather null on the scumtell radar, lynching an inactive COULD be a good idea. In this game… the amount of doctors is pretty high, so I wouldn’t risk it, unless two or all of the doctors were dead already.

8. What do you think of Vara’s discussion protip?

Who takes that kind of a tip seriously? Considering there are 11 players (or something like that) and only one has a username starting with a lowercase letter, isn’t it pretty obvious there MUST be a bad guy among the people whose usernames start with capital letters. Duh?

9. Are there any players that you are especially watchful/careful of in this mafia?

All and every equally.

10. Is paranoia a scumtell?

No. Especially in early-game when there’s no idea of who is a bad guy, you need to suspect everything and everyone.

11. What are your feelings on the Joke Phase?

Stupid crap.


[devourer359]

1: devourer presents questions to Jaskaran about a hidden vote among possible RNG votes. devourer also mentions that because it was late at night, he did not post a questionnaire. devourer also FoSes Adeeb for “implying that this [lynching devourer due to Vara’s ‘protip’] would be a good lynch”. I agree, following the ‘protip’ wouldn’t be that good and I highly doubt Vara was serious with it. devourer provides reasoning behind his FoS and comments on Adeeb’s vote on Jask ( which was reasoned by “fishy, overly defensive play”). devourer also posts the questionnaire.

2: devourer comments on: when a FoS or a vote should be used, Jaskaran’s mention of not finding a possible hidden serious vote in an RNG vote phase, Jaskaran’s negative answer to something (please, devourer, if there is more to a quote than just “no” or “yes”, would you mind including the question itself as well?), Jaskaran asking DAZ to “share [his] opinions properly” (once again, without the context included, I don’t know why devourer find this funny) and finally, devourer comments on Jaskaran asking someone to answer the questionnaire.

Then, devourer asks SilverEvil to explain why Adeeb is scum on 9 out of 10 occasions if Adeeb goes “wierdshit”. devourer continues onto Adeeb with the following points:

  • He did not take Adeeb’s first post as a joke; rather, he took it as a serious post, although it seemed to be rather joke-ish
  • He claims not to be an optimist and asks Adeeb what has optimism to do with townie-ness
  • He says that he felt Adeeb was over-reacting and that he always tries to find all possible interpretations of a post (especially if the post is Adeeb’s
  • Then devourer finds something Adeeb said “funny” because it seems like they’ve had a longer discussion according to Adeeb’s post
  • devourer also does not manage to find the difference between Adeeb “willing to test ‘the’ theory” and Adeeb “being suspicious of devourer particularly”
  • I AGREE with devourer’s next point, since Adeeb used the form “anyone ELSE” which hints to him also wanting to lynch devourer for Vara’s ‘protip’ or some other reason
  • devourer chose a wrong word form “countless” instead of “multiple” when talking about Jaskaran’s failed RQSes due to Jaskaran’s bad reputation
  • devourer mentions that lack of interest creates inactivity. I AGREE

Then, devourer moves onto CowFriend. devourer finds it “funny” that CowFriend mentioned on Adeeb’s interpretation of the ‘protip’ being a joke AFTER Adeeb mentioned it was one instead of BEFORE Adeeb mentioned it. He also requests an explanation to why CowFriend found it as a joke. He also comments on CowFriend’s “even if he [Adeeb] is scum, he [Adeeb] wouldn’t be dumb enough to make a mistake like that” and says that it was the reason why he did not vote Adeeb. He also asked on CowFriend’s rather joke-ish mention that he is “deliberately showing scumtells to lynch someone?”.

Finally in the post, he answers the RQS and I don’t really see anything special there.


So far, my analysis of devourer359 shows that he has a very weird sense of humor, or he uses the word “funny” in way wrong places. Clearly enough, Vara’s ‘protip’ was a joke as well as AdeebNafees’s interpretation of it. I don’t want to lengthen this post anymore, but in my opinion, devourer is a little aggressive in his gameplay or at least the messages I’ve tried to analyze, and I find no reason for that, especially on day 1. I know this is devourer’s meta, but you don’t always have to attack everyone and everything with questions. I will analyze the rest of devourer’s posts later on along with looking into Adeeb’s case as well.

 
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Another bump; you’d almost think the archeologists are sleeping during the day. Oh well.

Random quote:
Fate, then, is a name for facts not yet passed under the fire of thought; for causes which are unpenetrated.” ~Ralph Waldo Emerson

 
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vote twistedcake lul