Pay 2 Win

19 posts

Flag Post

I’m not going to play multiplayer if I’m simply fodder for people who’ve paid for lots of cards. The devs have to make money of course but at the moment single player is the only option for free players that don’t like being roflstomped by OP decks.

 
Flag Post

This is one of the least pay to win games i’ve ever played.

It’s one of the only card games I’ve ever played where the tier one cards as a group are better than the tier 4 cards.

Every card is obtainable through oak packs, which are the smartest thing to buy for a while after you start (until you have almost every common card maxed which takes some time). And then silver packs are quite cheap to unlock.

I’ve had a lot of multiplayer success as a newish player without spending any money.

 
Flag Post

quite a number of the top elo / pvpers are using max commons / uncommons in their pvp decks. if pvp/ mp is too hard for u now, try again when u have max commons ?

 
Flag Post

Considering that you literally get a pack every win on skirmish if you have a half decent deck, it’s incredibly easy to get upgraded cards. In fact, spending money here seems very inefficient to me, and I only did it to support the devs because I love this game.

 
Flag Post

The fact is that n00bs (and semi-noobs, I’ve put a few hours into this game) are regularly placed in matches versus decks where they have zero chance of winning. Do the sensible thing and quit, and the game locks you out of multiplayer. It’s rude. I will never spend money on a game structured in this way.

 
Flag Post

You are look forgetting three big factors in your statements

1.) The game is pretty small, being only little more than a month old, the playerbase is small, so the chances of finding someone of your skill level as a new player is incredibly low
2.) The game’s campaign is still in progress, which means that the single player focus of the game is rather obfuscated, it might seem a little counter-intuitive to Skirmish when Multiplayer is right there, but Skirmish is the way to go to manage a collection and get yourself to a stable enough position to even consider PvPing. This is a fault of the game, but something that everyone recommends; to focus on Skirmishing to get around with the rules of the game and wait for campaign content
3.) You are PvPing as a newbie in a CCG, this is an enormous sinkhole in ANY card game. Go make a new account on Kingdoms, Tyrant or Bloodrealm. Sure, PvP rating will save you the first few matches, but after that, you are own your own against players who have been there for years.

Which brings me to my next point, those players have been there for years and have those grandiose collections, while this game is a Month old and people ALREADY have grandiose collections, which speaks volumes of the velocity at which you can earn cards if you try instead of wildly tossing everything around to find everything in the room. And if your position still stands, then that’s OK, feel fine to not spend money in this game, you can succeed anyhow with no problems whatsoever

 
Flag Post

If you play two turns and quit, you make 50 silver…

Originally posted by Bascule2000:

The fact is that n00bs (and semi-noobs, I’ve put a few hours into this game) are regularly placed in matches versus decks where they have zero chance of winning. Do the sensible thing and quit, and the game locks you out of multiplayer. It’s rude. I will never spend money on a game structured in this way.

Originally posted by GregarFalzar:


2.) The game’s campaign is still in progress, which means that the single player focus of the game is rather obfuscated, it might seem a little counter-intuitive to Skirmish when Multiplayer is right there, but Skirmish is the way to go to manage a collection and get yourself to a stable enough position to even consider PvPing. This is a fault of the game, but something that everyone recommends; to focus on Skirmishing to get around with the rules of the game and wait for campaign content

Why would you skirmish? Why would you quit? Conceding is easy, makes both players happy (since your opponent gets 150), and, hey, if you feel like playing it out after two turns you can.

 
Flag Post
Originally posted by GregarFalzar:

You are look forgetting three big factors in your statements

1.) The game is pretty small, being only little more than a month old, the playerbase is small, so the chances of finding someone of your skill level as a new player is incredibly low
2.) The game’s campaign is still in progress, which means that the single player focus of the game is rather obfuscated, it might seem a little counter-intuitive to Skirmish when Multiplayer is right there, but Skirmish is the way to go to manage a collection and get yourself to a stable enough position to even consider PvPing. This is a fault of the game, but something that everyone recommends; to focus on Skirmishing to get around with the rules of the game and wait for campaign content
3.) You are PvPing as a newbie in a CCG, this is an enormous sinkhole in ANY card game. Go make a new account on Kingdoms, Tyrant or Bloodrealm. Sure, PvP rating will save you the first few matches, but after that, you are own your own against players who have been there for years.

Which brings me to my next point, those players have been there for years and have those grandiose collections, while this game is a Month old and people ALREADY have grandiose collections, which speaks volumes of the velocity at which you can earn cards if you try instead of wildly tossing everything around to find everything in the room. And if your position still stands, then that’s OK, feel fine to not spend money in this game, you can succeed anyhow with no problems whatsoever

To unlock the coins without paying takes ~7,000,000 silver (this is based upon stats from users of the official forums, the exact chances appear to be secret), which is 70,000 average skirmish victories. Officially an ‘average game’ is 7.5 minutes. That’s a year of playing (~364.6 days). No breaks taken into account, 8750 solid hours of playing (and this doesn’t count the time taken to open all those packs) to get on even footing with paying players.

This game is definitely pay to win.

 
Flag Post

<Hasn’t bought Gems
<Has 7 coins
<Game is less than 2 month old

Somehow your math seems crooked

 
Flag Post

I win the vast majority of PVP matches I get (or it feels that way at least) I have no coins and the people who do beat me don’t tend to even have one. Coins are a bit overrated. Maybe you just have a bad deck.

 
Flag Post

I heard about .5% chance of a coin in a silver pack. It would then take 200*300*10=600k silver to get 10 coins. And it should only take about a minute for each skirmish if you are really good, but we’ll use 90 seconds. It would then take 150 hours to get 10 coins.

There might be some questionable numbers in there but regardless 9k hours is a huge overestimate.

And you can win without coins. Currently the #2 ranked player only has one coin.

 
Flag Post

Re: replies, my number has a huge margin of error, but to clarify:

- As I’m talking about non-paying players this means oak packs, not silver.

- The coins in oak packs ratio was taken from stats in the war of omens official forum….it’s certainly not the ‘real’ number, but it’s as close as I could get without 5th column releasing the actual numbers. If you have any different source for oak packs per coin, feel free to give it. Or do your own calculation: oak packs per coin * 10 *7.5 minutes.

 
Flag Post

At the moment, the top ELO is pay to win, and the bottom/middle ELO isn’t. It doesn’t take a bunch of scarce/rare to make a good green or red deck, but it’s mandatory for blue.

 
Flag Post

AlienKitty, how did you find out about quitting after two turns? If it was in one of the tutorials I missed it.

FWIW the decks that were beating me probably weren’t bought decks for the most part. With hindsight I think the problem was matchmaking. A newbie deck will almost never beat an upgraded deck; not only are the noob’s cards not upgraded but important cards will be missing and he probably isn’t very good at deck building yet. But a noob will still be frequently matched against much stronger decks, a very frustrating experience. I think it’s a problem as some players will give up before realising how good the game is.

 
Flag Post

I’ve been playing this game for a few months and have 1 coin, never spent any kreds on silver or gems so don’t even have the silver pack unlocked and I’m doing fine, I have a bunch of maxxed commons and a ton of scarce/rare, even an upgraded scarce and it really doesn’t seem pay to win to me at all, especially since you can get literally any card from the oak pack. It may take longer yes but tat doesn’t make it pay to win and if you’re having trouble in multiplayer do skirmish rushes, you can knock them out in no time at all if you know what you’re doing and stockpile silver like crazy which would even out the difficulty much faster.

 
Flag Post

I think it’s important for fans and developers to recognize this perception, as it will come up as the game receives more accolades and the new players that follow.

It is very discouraging to explore the multiplayer feature and immediately be matched up with a deck full of upgrades and rares with special coins littered throughout. Access to these cards makes a huge difference, and it isn’t unreasonable for a new player to feel discouraged. The key here is that the discouragement isn’t from the match result, but from the match-up.

The progression of the game works really well in relation to player experience (people have specifically said this game feel the least P2W of CCG’s out there, and I emphatically agree). What needs work is the matchmaking system. I think the best approach for the Dev is to match solely on deck power, with perhaps some value in ranking for the top 1-5% (to help them face each other). No one who needs to play with the initial cards should be facing someone with maxed cards.

The progression of the game can stay untouched if the matchmaking is improved.

 
Flag Post

1) The coins are in no way necessary. One or two coins will just give a small edge in a close game.
2) The matchmaking was modified twice, I believe. It was most important for developers (and players) to have that multiplayer mode out in the first place, hence it was released without a good matchmaking in place. It is being enhanced specifically for the purpose mentioned in this thread. It will just take some time.
3) The more silver is spent, the faster silver is accumulated. The better the deck the faster opponents can be defeated and the faster strong opponents can be defeated.

Since this game is made in such a way that it’s rather hard to play entirely on high-rarity cards (since they are not strictly better in this game), investing in commons and uncommons is a very smart move that will let the player profit in all levels of the game. It just requires some investment in actually accumulating a bunch of cards.

Considering that, the thread title is terribly misplaced. Pay to win is a game where you cannot win without paying. You can win without paying in this game. It just takes more time. What’s important is that this “more time” is still reasonable. Like a person that works outside the game for money to spend on this game, a person needs to work inside this game to reach a high level without spending money. Both though can reach it reasonably easily. Heck, this game is not only the most free-player friendly CCG I ever came across. It’s actually the most spender friendly one too. Other games have ridiculous prices for packs that may very well contain all-commons. Here you are guaranteed rare or coin (and unlock an uncommon+ pack).

So, yeah. This game is very player friendly all-around. It just needs some time to reach its goal in both multiplayer and single player.

 
Flag Post
Originally posted by kikix12:

Considering that, the thread title is terribly misplaced.

Yeah the title is misplaced. I could edit it (to Play 2 Win perhaps?) but people have replied based on the original title so I think it should stand. My point is really about the matchmaking for new players.

 
Flag Post

perhaps could you edit like this :
Play 2 Win (old title edited : pay 2 win)
or
Play 2 win ( pay 2 win )

This way reader would understand that you evolve in your idea.
I changed three times title on a subject similar to yours.

I’m agree with postexodus and kikix12.

And to answer your question : “how did you find out about quitting after two turns? If it was in one of the tutorials I missed it”. Click on “menu” just near “end turn” and choose “quit”.