Flash Being Deprecated?!?! Wasup with this rumor? page 3

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Originally posted by Jabor:

Claiming that Flash is faster than a PS3 is pretty dumb, to be honest. Flash isn’t a piece of hardware, how fast it is depends on what its running on. Trying to claim that as a measure of “power” is even sillier.

In terms of stability, I honestly don’t know how anyone can claim that Flash is more stable than a modern browser. Flash is a gaping security hole that browser developers have been trying to bandaid over for years. It’s trivial to exploit Flash. Exploiting a browser without using flash is much harder.

I hope that you understand most computers are faster than consoles of their time, in terms of hardware; That’s why skyboy stated that Flash was the superior runtime in terms of performance (which is indeed true, given the JIT compiler and new stage3D technology).

Originally posted by basicbasic:

Hey, I’m new to the world of programming and am currently studying ICT at school… I was wondering…. what language should I try and learn first? I want to make games so C# and AS3 seem pretty good but this thread makes me wonder if its worth it…. Thoughts?

It’s a very worthwhile technology to master and you will be able to make apps with it for years to come.

Originally posted by EndlessSporadic:

Being in a HTML5 + JavaScript course at school this semester (in terms of creating games), I am going to change stance and express my deep hatred for JavaScript. It is a shitty language and needs to die in a fire.

I don’t think that being in a course this semester gives you the seniority to judge a language so harshly…

 
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I hope that you understand most computers are faster than consoles of their time, in terms of hardware; That’s why skyboy stated that Flash was the superior runtime in terms of performance (which is indeed true, given the JIT compiler and new stage3D technology).

That is not true. PS2s and the Xbox were actually labeled as the equivalent of high end computers during their release. That being said your post is accurate for modern consoles.

I don’t think that being in a course this semester gives you the seniority to judge a language so harshly…

How are Earth did you imply that? Are you trying to start something?

 
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He implied it by blatantly stating it ;)

 
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How are Earth did you imply that? Are you trying to start something?

I honestly wish I can understand what you’re saying o-o

Why are you hating on Javascript?

 
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Originally posted by BigJM:

AS3 is also statically and strongly typed whereas JS is not.

mark a variable as * (or don’t mark it as having a type) for behavior exactly like JS. they’re based on the same spec.

Originally posted by Jabor:

Claiming that Flash is faster than a PS3 is pretty dumb, to be honest. Flash isn’t a piece of hardware, how fast it is depends on what its running on. Trying to claim that as a measure of “power” is even sillier.

In terms of stability, I honestly don’t know how anyone can claim that Flash is more stable than a modern browser. Flash is a gaping security hole that browser developers have been trying to bandaid over for years. It’s trivial to exploit Flash. Exploiting a browser without using flash is much harder.

the power has to do with its access to 3D contexts in 11+ (which has nearly full penetration for consumers), and the interpreter often outperforming the JS interpreters due to access to numeric types other than “double” (a shortcoming of JS); and most PCs bought within the last year or two outperform the PS3, and with flash having access to the GPU (and newer CPUs) it manages to run more quickly than the PS3 does. while JS could manage the same if it was replaced by something resembling AS3 (as was Adobe’s intention) it currently can not (and with how fast standards are adopted, it may be a decade before it can)

as for stability: flash is patched regularly to deal with those holes (and similarly, firefox/chrome/opera are patched regularly to deal with their holes) so they cease to be a problem pretty quickly, and Adobe is implementing sandboxing for flash by default on firefox (chrome already handles it). firefox also crashes more frequently than flash does, unless something is targeting flash by trying to allocate too much memory (which causes a hard crash instead of an error like it did in 10.0; Adobe’s fault.)

Originally posted by qwerber:

Why are you hating on Javascript?

javascript is pretty bad since DOM interaction still needs to vary based on what browser and what version of that browser is being used. this early adoption of HTML5 by not only websites, but the browsers has only further fragmented how to interact with the DOM. it will settle out in a few years time (like 4 or 5?) but even then, some websites will attempt to support legacy code for years longer.
(tangent) while the flash player must do the same internally, it’s managed in a single place, and by Adobe specifically. we don’t have to be concerned with it in our own code; as for making sure the version the client has is correct, a simple wrapper can be written in flash 5-8(any) that loads the version required by the main SWF and checks against it, then loads the main SWF if it’s fine, or prompts the user to upgrade. written correctly, this need only be done once, for the lifetime of flash.

 
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When flash crashes… it’s not Adobe’s fault, it’s the developer.

 
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Originally posted by Draco18s:
Originally posted by basicbasic:

Hey, I’m new to the world of programming and am currently studying ICT at school… I was wondering…. what language should I try and learn first? I want to make games so C# and AS3 seem pretty good but this thread makes me wonder if its worth it…. Thoughts?

Thread title makes you wonder, every single post in this thread is saying that the thread title is wrong.

Yes but if I do decide to become a full on game designer/programmer, it would be 4 years on from now. By then the language would be stable wouldn’t it?

 
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Originally posted by basicbasic:

Yes but if I do decide to become a full on game designer/programmer, it would be 4 years on from now. By then the language would be stable wouldn’t it?

the language is stable. unless you mean unstable as in “it changes” in that case, it’s going to keep improving and nothing will stop it.

 
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Adobe is pushing the platform more and more for mobile OS aswell. If anything, flash will grow as it’s the easiest platform for 2d vector based games, which is one of the prime type of games for the market.

 
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Originally posted by SniperFox:

Adobe is pushing the platform more and more for mobile OS aswell. If anything, flash will grow as it’s the easiest platform for 2d vector based games, which is one of the prime type of games for the market.

Especially when they discontinued the flash player plugin for mobile.

 
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Originally posted by Drakim:
Originally posted by SniperFox:

Adobe is pushing the platform more and more for mobile OS aswell. If anything, flash will grow as it’s the easiest platform for 2d vector based games, which is one of the prime type of games for the market.

Especially when they discontinued the flash player plugin for mobile.

Because it did not work properly, it was a mess to control with touch and gestures rather than a mouse. They are dropping the embedded flash player to instead further develop a dedicated compiler for iOS and Android.

 
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Drakim. AIR… that’s the big thing.

One could say the discontinued plugin just centralized things =p.

 
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Personally I don’t think consumers think very fondly of non-native flash apps that run slowly and consume battery. This will be the perception the general consumer will get when most flash developers continues using animated movieclips on the displaylist to make their games.

Flash is infamous for being laggy and bad on the desktop (despite being quite aright these days) and it will get the same fame on the mobile marketplace, I suspect.

But we shall see :)

 
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People rarely use their judgement these days… just because Steve Jobs said HTML is the future, a crap load of irresolute website designers spread false messages everywhere.

 
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Originally posted by qwerber:

People rarely use their judgement these days… just because Steve Jobs said HTML is the future, a crap load of irresolute website designers spread false messages everywhere.

Steve Jobs also believed in holistic health care.
(Look where that got him)

 
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The compiler for AIR outputs ARM ASM when you build an iOS app. It’s performance is therefore not dependant on the Flash runtime. As far as I know there is no obvious way to tell if an app was made in AIR.

 
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Originally posted by BigJM:

The compiler for AIR outputs ARM ASM when you build an iOS app. It’s performance is therefore not dependant on the Flash runtime. As far as I know there is no obvious way to tell if an app was made in AIR.

Except for the big bloated timelined vector graphics that prevails in the majority of flash games.

Flash is really easy to get into, but it also means it’s the “newbie platform”, which has given flash a reputation for being slow and unstable, when it really isn’t. I don’t think mobile will be any different if Adobe is aiming at making it mainstream for flash developers to publish there.

 
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I don’t think consumers care. They might think ‘this game screws my battery’, but not ‘this language/format…’. The reputation amongst techies doesn’t matter, it’s whether it’ll affect people thinking about breaking out the e-wallet for spangly helmets & bonus levels.

 
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Originally posted by Drakim:

Personally I don’t think consumers think very fondly of non-native flash apps that run slowly and consume battery. This will be the perception the general consumer will get when most flash developers continues using animated movieclips on the displaylist to make their games.

Flash is infamous for being laggy and bad on the desktop (despite being quite aright these days) and it will get the same fame on the mobile marketplace, I suspect.

But we shall see :)

Well then why are many of the popular games on the market made in AIR? If people really aren’t that fond of it, it’d drive them away, and yet I still see people playing their Angry Birds, no?

Bottom line, as Ambitious said, it doesn’t really matter too much to consumers. They will take a few hours at a larger battery consumption rate to enjoy a fun game.

 
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Eh? But Angry Birds wasn’t made in Flash/Air…

 
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Originally posted by Drakim:

Eh? But Angry Birds wasn’t made in Flash/Air…

Well then why was there big news about Angry Birds using Starling?

 
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Originally posted by TAO_Arecibo:
Originally posted by Drakim:

Eh? But Angry Birds wasn’t made in Flash/Air…

Well then why was there big news about Angry Birds using Starling?

I don’t know, they have probably ported it a billion places. There was a HTML5 version up in the Google Play store a few months back.

But the main Angry Birds app that made them bit was not made in Flash. A quick google shows that most of the game-logic was made in Lua powered by Obj-C. When it was ported to Android it was done with Java (but still with Lua files driving the game-logic).

The fact that Angry Birds came out almost 3 years before Starling even existed should also have tipped you off.

 
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Angry Birds for Facebook is perhaps what you were thinking of?

 
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Originally posted by Drakim:

The fact that Angry Birds came out almost 3 years before Starling even existed should also have tipped you off.

As far as I remember, the Flash Version was out before Starling was. Starling was an addition, persay. Let me do some research and find out.

 
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