New integrated standard

14 posts

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As we all know, this whole html javascript css thing is a mess right now.

Call me a pessimist but i just can’t see html becoming the internet standard of

the future(replacing even flash for games and stuff).

Is a new dynamic,open,powerfull standard created for 2.0 to much to ask for?

 
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Ironically, HTML5 doesn’t even have one standard. It has three.

 
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I’m going to direct you to this thread for any discussion regarding html5/js/flash stuffs.

(Just doing this to anything related to the original thread, sorry. So much easier to have one thread cover the debate/issues/desires of everything related)

EDIT Lock or no? Hrm.

 
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Before you lock, you may as well link the following threads in the OP of the thread that you linked:

http://www.kongregate.com/forums/4/topics/223258
http://www.kongregate.com/forums/4/topics/201025

I think that (sadly), there are more threads about the same thing, but I can’t remember their names.

 
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Lock it down :)

 
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Eh, I think this could be interesting. Basically – if you could redesign client-side programming for the web – how would you do it?

 
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Originally posted by Senekis93:

I think that (sadly), there are more threads about the same thing, but I can’t remember their names.

I think there’s about 6000 threads about this.

 
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Originally posted by BobTheCoolGuy:

Eh, I think this could be interesting. Basically – if you could redesign client-side programming for the web – how would you do it?

There are some concepts already,perhaps we can dump some here?

 
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Originally posted by BigJM:
Originally posted by Senekis93:

I think that (sadly), there are more threads about the same thing, but I can’t remember their names.

I think there’s about 6000 threads about this.

id say about 5000 myself,but okay i you wanna over exagerate go ahead :/

 
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Originally posted by Dynastic:

As we all know, this whole html javascript css thing is a mess right now.

Not really. The kongregate forums is overwhelmingly filled with Flash developers who have tons of experience with AS3 and the Stage and very little with JavaScript and HTML. Thus, you get a bit of an echo chamber about how strange and wrong the design is, and how it could possibly not be adopted in mass scale.

Call me a pessimist but i just can’t see html becoming the internet standard of

the future(replacing even flash for games and stuff).

What the heck are you talking about. This forum, the kongregate website, and every single fucking website on the whole fucking planet is built in HTML and enhanced with JavaScript. How can you say that you don’t see how it could become the standard of the web?

I might agree with your assertion that it won’t completely take over Flash when it comes to games (I’m holding my breath for NaCl)

But when it comes to the rest of the web you are 100% wrong. It is the standard already and has been since day 1 on the web. You might as well say that you don’t think water will ever be the main standard for human bathing. Or that TV will never catch on.

Is a new dynamic,open,powerfull standard created for 2.0 to much to ask for?

Yes it is. If we all got together here now and made a perfect, easy, powerful, dynamic, great language, free to use for everybody, we would get exactly 0% adoption.

JavaScript is far from as terrible as you make it out to be, and if you really want to avoid it while developing for the web, just use something like CoffeeScript or HaXe, which are both prettier languages but can output their code into JavaScript form for you to use.

 
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I think it’s fair to say that HTML/CSS/JS is somewhat of a mess. You have HTML which is caught between defining meaning and defining functionality. It also has one heck of a strange grammar to it that makes it relatively difficult to parse. You have the Frankensteinian CSS, which has been haphazardly enhanced so many times it’s almost hard to tell what it is now. It’s also much more difficult to use than some other layout systems. Now, you can argue that:


which is somewhat fair, but it also points to a flaw of CSS – it shouldn’t be that hard to layout content!

Then you have JS, which was hacked together in an incredibly short time by a few individuals at Netscape. Is it useable – yes. But could it be much better, easier to use, and more predictable? Also yes. (And it could be better cross-browser too!)

Anyway, I still think it’s a more interesting question how you would redesign client-side web programming if you could.

 
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Other than the Browser-JavaScript API, I don’t really see what is so hacky about JavaScript. It’s not like the Netscape just dreamed up something completely new, JavaScript is based on ECMAScript just like AS3 is. Compared to it’s early rivals like VBScript from Microsoft JavaScript is outright commendable.

The CSS stuff is indeed tricker, but IMO so is the weird stage and movieclip system that Flash uses. For a much better experience, I recommend the <canvas> tag which works like a Bitmap.

But either way, all this is a matter of what one prefers and what one likes. The point was that OP is horribly wrong on most things he said, on the same level as somebody who says “Why bother milking cows, when you can just buy the milk in the store?”. Add the arrogant tone and I see red. :)

 
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Originally posted by BobTheCoolGuy:

Eh, I think this could be interesting. Basically – if you could redesign client-side programming for the web – how would you do it?

I would go with a prettier language.

Drakim is right that we can always use Haxe, Dart, Fantom, CoffeeScript or whatever, but there are a lot of limitations, like… you can’t make a nice GreaseMonkey script; you have to use ugly JS. You can’t simply enter haxe:new Main from("path/to/file/Main.hx") in the URL bar and let magic happen.

So yeah, while they are good for develpment, they aren’t as good when it comes to other things.

I would love if JS was replaced for something else, but that will never happen. See what happened with Dart, some of you may be discovering that there’s a language called Dart right now; that’s how much success it had by trying to replace JS, and it was made by Google, who are particularly efficient when it comes to forcing people to use their producs (like with all the Chrome spam).