Despawning MC's in AS2.0 page 2

43 posts

Flag Post
Originally posted by Senekis93:

If you don’t want to learn AS3 because it’s OMFG, SO HARD! that’s fine, but refrain from spamming missleading comments that will only hurt new developers by making them think that using AS2 is a good option at this point.

Perhaps refraining from turning every single AS2 help thread into an “AS2 SUCKS AS3 IS BETTER” topic might mean posts like that never showed up in the first place. For 90% of AS2 coders, it’s all they even need anyway, and except in cases like Aesica’s, “rewrite everything from scratch in a new language” is a far worse solution than just fixing the (usually basic) problem in the first place.

The fact that most of Kong’s best games were made in AS2 (some in AS1) is a pretty relevant point to bring up considering most AS2 users spend their time defending their language of choice against rants against it from you and others.

 
Flag Post

The “AS3 is better” thing is a must in any AS2 thread. Like a warning label on dangerous products, so people just getting into this don’t get the wrong idea and pick the wrong tool.
I wish someone was nice enough to warn me about it when I started making Flash games. It took me a while to get rid of all the AS2’s bad practices.

Also, I don’t see how you “fix the usually basic problem” when the problem lies in the damned VM, not in the code you write.

Anyway, the problem will be solved soon, since IDEs don’t even support AS2 anymore. But yeah, I’ll keep informing about it everytime I can; if a single user reads my posts and starts reading about AS3 instead, it’ll be worth it.

Also, I don’t see what’s the point of bringing the same argument after it’s been said how pointless it is. No ammount of good AS2 games or great AS2 programmers will change the fact that AS2 is a bad choice. That said, I couldn’t find a single AS2 game in the top games page, but whatever, it’s an irrelevant point anyway.

 
Flag Post

Saying that AS3 is better should be a warning, I agree, but it is not necessary to change every topic involving AS2 to a topic about AS2 vs AS3. I’m sure there is a topic about this discussion, so just link people to that topic if you want to warn them, don’t change the topic into it.

Also, saying “X game is made in AS2” is not an invalid point, since it shows the capabilities of AS2, which you are underestimating. Fancy Pants for example, has 5 different enormous bitmaps scrolling around the place, which gives the parallax effect. On top of that is an invisible collision vector, also enormous, used by 20 baddies for slope detection, and all baddies are frame-by-frame drawn vectors.

Btw, Flash CS6 supports AS2, or am I missing something here?

 
Flag Post

I think that CS7 will discontinue AS2 support, if I remember correctly.

 
Flag Post

But will the flash player ever stop supporting it?

 
Flag Post
Originally posted by JohnnyBohnny:

But will the flash player ever stop supporting it?

Much sooner than it’ll be before the flash player stops supporting AS3. You’re doing yourself a great disservice by learning an obsolete, deprecated, and ultimately unsupported flavor of actionscript. Take it from a former AS2 user who, at the time, thought AS2 was “perfectly fine for what I wanted to do,” and that there was no real reason to bother learning AS3.

If only I had a Tardis…

 
Flag Post
Originally posted by JohnnyBohnny:

But will the flash player ever stop supporting it?

I remember a few As2 .swf behaving in a strange way with new FlashPlayer update.
It was a beta, but still: this evidently shows that the support for As2 is on the decline.
(same as with the mentioned upcoming Flash IDE)

The thing that people are trying to point out is that there is most likely more value for you in changing to As3 than sticking to As1/2.

 
Flag Post

I agree that derailing threads and turning them into an AS2 vs AS3 argument is not the best thing to do, and yes, I may as well make a thread explaining why I suggest against it and just link it.

I’m not underestimating the capabilities of AS2; AS2 is a very flawed tool, but was enough for the job for a while, but developers eventually started pushing it to its limit in order to accomplsh what otherway should have been simple goals; noone should spend a week optimizing stuff only to be able to display a considerable ammount of objects or running some semi heavy logic, and that’s one (maybe the main) reason for AS3 to exist, just like AS3.1 will exist soon because of the non stop requirement for better performance.

Yes, very good games can be made in AS2, but that’s not enough to suggest others to even consider it as a viable option at this point, when they can spend the same time learning AS3. Learning AS2 instead of AS3 does not only limit the game’s performance, but also your options to make multiplayer games, port it to multiple devices or even use a bunch of APIs.

I don’t think AS2 apps will stop running in the Flash Player for a while.

Anyway, the thing is that AS2 had its purpose, but it was deprecated for a reason. AS3 has been available for a good time and the web is full of documentation, articles and tutorials. Many of us started with AS2 and eventually learned AS3 because it’s the best thing to do; tis isn’t a witch hunt where I’m just telling people to use this tool because it’s the one I use, trying to impose my views over yours; I just want people to be aware that there’s a better tool out there. If someone still want to go with AS2 after reading all of that, that’s fine; I’m just giving them an oportunity that I never had; I ddn’t know a thing about laguages when I started making games and after a quick Google search it seemed like AS2 was the way to go. Had I found an “AS3 is better” comment, the history would have been different.

I’ll see if I find some time to write about it during the course of the day.

 
Flag Post

I think a side of the argument you’re missing is that most of the people posting here with a question (any question, not just AS2 ones), aren’t interested in performance, efficiency, benchmarking, etc. They just want a simple answer that works, regardless of anything else. They have a partly finished game, they’ve made a beginner mistake somewhere, and the fix is usually pretty simple.

The fact that someone says they’re using it shouldn’t be confused with someone saying it’s the best language to use. On the same note, someone asking for help with something hasn’t necessarily just started learning it, even if it’s a concept that seems simple to you. They’re here because at some point in the making of their game, they’ve found a point they’re unsure of, that other AS2 users can likely help with.

It’s not been suggested anywhere that complete beginners should be starting with AS2. Although, if they find it easier to pick up, there shouldn’t be a problem with that either. Personally, I use AS2 most of the time mostly because the relative simplicity of the language means I can spend as little time programming as possible. I hate programming and only do it because nobody will do it for me… I don’t want to spend more time doing more programming when the language I already know a little of is still capable of enough to get me through. Regardless of which language appears more logical to you, you’re a relatively advanced programmer – to most new programmers AS2 is easier, and therefore the one they look at first.

If you really want to convince more people to switch to AS3, you’re approaching it the wrong way. Most AS3 tutorials are geared towards high level programmers with a decent level of understanding of programming in general. The people who most need the tutorials can’t understand them, because AS2 doesn’t set you up for learning AS3 (as you mentioned) and also because they don’t want to know about efficiency and the ‘best’ way to do things, they just want to make their game as fast as they can so they have something to show people. Write some tutorials that the typical Kong user can actually understand, and voila, more AS3 users. Otherwise, those guys are gonna stick with AS2.

 
Flag Post

Yeah, I’ve been wanting to write one for a while, but I’m not particularly good at finishing stuff. We’ll see if I can come up with some good tutorial once the AS3.1 thing is ready.

In the meantime, there’s that famous avoider tutorial. It’s far from perfect, imo, but good enough to get you on the track.
I don’t know much about tutorials, to be honest; I find it easier to learn by reading the documentation, but I bet there are some other newbie friendly tutorials out there, it’s a mater of spending some time looking for some.

 
Flag Post

I use AS2 because there are multiple ways to do something, you don’t have to clarify everything and because you can assign Math.sqrt("omg cats!")/[asdf, "asdf", int(asdf)] to _root._x. With AS2 I can be more creative and productive, even though the fps isn’t 60 but 40. If the fps does get too low, I can optimise some stuff, and it’s (semi-)fixed.
I have become skilled enough in AS2 to write code fluently without thinking too much about it, which is also the reason that I find it more difficult to learn AS3 than any other language: I am doing pretty much the same, but I have to look up things often, clarify everything, deal with multiple files(classes), and in the end, I created something in 60 minutes which I could have made in 10 minutes, and that is not very satisfying. (I am not saying that as2 is 6x faster)

And btw, you can actually create realtime multiplayer games using xml and php sockets with AS2 (besides creating the sockets themselves).

 
Flag Post

Originally posted by JohnnyBohnny:

I use AS2 because there are multiple ways to do something, you don’t have to clarify everything and because you can assign Math.sqrt("omg cats!")/[asdf, "asdf", int(asdf)] to _root._x. With AS2 I can be more creative and productive, even though the fps isn’t 60 but 40. If the fps does get too low, I can optimise some stuff, and it’s (semi-)fixed.
I have become skilled enough in AS2 to write code fluently without thinking too much about it, which is also the reason that I find it more difficult to learn AS3 than any other language: I am doing pretty much the same, but I have to look up things often, clarify everything, deal with multiple files(classes), and in the end, I created something in 60 minutes which I could have made in 10 minutes, and that is not very satisfying. (I am not saying that as2 is 6x faster)

And btw, you can actually create realtime multiplayer games using xml and php sockets with AS2 (besides creating the sockets themselves).

AS2 doesn’t have int()

AS3 doesn’t let you do insanely stupid things (like dividing by an array) because its insanely stupid; and complaining about errors being thrown is absolutely absurd: errors are your friends, they let you know when something is wrong. AS2 may seem better because it just swallows the errors and ignores the fact something’s wrong, but it’s hurting you in the end by making debugging more difficult and allowing you to do something (like access an undefined variable, and perform math with it) that you didn’t want to do because you made a typo and then promptly hides that fact

and not learning something new because your first steps are unsatisfying is rather childish: that’s like refusing to ever play in the snow because your first steps in it were cold

 
Flag Post

Not to mention that vomiting nonsense that will compile but not run (and knowing it!) is hardly “creative” or “productive”. The correct word to use there is “stupid”.

 
Flag Post

I’ll just go and check the ‘learning AS3’ topics then.

 
Flag Post

AS2 doesn’t just swallow the errors, it breeds them to create all new, unspeakable horrors. In one project, I had an object with several variables. One was declared as a Number and yet, when I tried to add 1 to it, it was not only concatenating that 1 with the variable like a string, but was actually turning that Number-declared variable INTO a string. I had to hunt all over for the cause of that bug because, according to the AS2 compiler, “nothing to see here! Everything is in working order!” WTF, why would anyone want to put themselves through that? AS3 would’ve shown me red and taken me right to the source of the problem.

 
Flag Post

When using AS3, is it better to use Flash Develop or just CS*? Does FD have any functionalities that CS doesn’t in debugging or such?

 
Flag Post

I use FlashDevelop for debugging purposes

FlashDevelop AS3 Project: Flash IDE Project

CSX compilation, FD debugging

It’s been so long since I’ve used CSX for coding that I don’t remember what it is like

 
Flag Post

I don’t how much (or if at all) CS has improved its coding functionality, but when I used Flash 8 Pro (rofl) coding was grossly inferior to that of FD. With Flash, the autocomplete was garbage, the syntax highlighting/coloring wasn’t as helpful, and I hated the debug/output window. About the only thing I found noteworthy with Flash Pro was how well it compacted everything down—surely CS is just as good if not better at doing that. With FD, you are responsible for compacting your images and sounds.