LOLMarket guide page 2 (locked)

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Originally posted by Draconi:

What did u do when you got those three updates? You probably had something running ingame that gave you Progress Bar increments, like the Battle Arena…

I had it waiting in shop screen

With Anti-Idle Mode on? If so then I have no idea how/when LolMarket updates are triggered. There must be something where it holds onto.

 
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Damn, when I think I have Lolmarket completely figured out, turns out I didn’t. Here’s the catch: it runs the check for the cap every time demand changes naturally. So you can have up to 59 demand, but when it updates, it resets to 40.

With Anti-Idle Mode on?

Yes. Like I said, it’s completely random. I just checked again, got 3 new updates while waiting, each with about 2 minutes from each other.

 
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Originally posted by Draconi:

Damn, when I think I have Lolmarket completely figured out, turns out I didn’t. Here’s the catch: the it runs the check for the cap every time demand changes naturally. So you can have 58 demand, but when it updates, it resets to 40.

With Anti-Idle Mode on?

Yes. Like I said, it’s completely random. I just checked again, got at 3 new updates while waiting, each with about 2 minutes from each other.

Even for it to be completely random, there must be something that triggers the random check that determines whether to update, or not. It can’t all of a sudden decide to update, unless that decision is triggered by something. Progress bar was my main suspect for that especially after my tests, but now that you’ve proven that isn’t the trigger, what else can fulfill this role?

 
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I’m pretty sure it’s just a function that runs constantly in the background. To check it I left another anti-idle window open. I just loaded the savefile and I’m waiting for any signals of it triggering without anything significant going on.

 
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Possibly a timer that goes off within a certain time range (ex: 2-5mins), randomized after each trigger.

 
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Originally posted by chaosguard:

Possibly a timer that goes off within a certain time range (ex: 2-5mins), randomized after each trigger.

Why didn’t I think of a timer that updates itself?! Either way yea it is possible but then there must be some way of preventing it from taking too long. That means either a special formula to extremely minimize long times, or most likely a maximum time it can take until the next update. Know this max time and you know the average frequency of the updates.

 
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@Draconi: Thank you very much!

@GeneralYouri:
1. Thank you! All the help is most appreciated.
2. I have changed everything except the price image. I will have a second look at it, but first, can you mention which prices you find are streching it? I often see Lv 1 gems at 500, strangely. But I’ll up it to 650 or so =)

@Boligao: Yeah, probably. I think I saw it at 10k once now that I think about it. I might just not have paid attention, for some strange reason I tend to ignore Lv 5 gem xD It’s the one I use the least :O It doesn’t like me and kinda idles about at +/- 10 and 8ish k all the time.
Oh and btw, regarding Lv 6 gems going up to 12k. They definately do, but that is the buy price. I have put the sell price, which generally does not go over 11,2k.

Originally posted by GeneralYouri:
Originally posted by Draconi:

The logical demand range when using LolMarket Control is -58 to +58.
The range without using LolMarket Control however is still -40 to +40.

Sorry, doesn’t work that way. If demand is higher than 40 or lower than -40 it’s reset to the cap. Mystery points can go up to 101 because there isn’t reset check like that, it just doesn’t let it go up if it is >= 100

Look at the image posted by woto earlier. He has +54 and +52. If it really does check and reset to -40 or +40, then that wouldn’t be possible.

I find it really amusing you assumed I am a he. I happen to be a she, haha. Not that it’s relevant, just made me laugh =)

Edit: Does anyone know how to make the forum maintain the empty lines? I noticed the guide is just a huge mass of text now. Layout gone ftl. I guess I could just add white images inbetween, but urgh, lazy. Anyone have a better idea?

 
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Yup. Being a programmer, a timer is the most simple logical implementation.

Either way yea it is possible but then there must be some way of preventing it from taking too long.

Yeah, you typically set a pre-determined Minimum & Maximum if this is how its implemented. For example, if its set to… 2 + random(4) then the minimum is 2 mins, max is 6, average is 4. Course it would actually be scripted in miliseconds.

I’ll mess around with it a bit and see if I can get anything more concrete.

 
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Now this is strange:

http://img502.imageshack.us/img502/9732/lolzq.png

More than 10 minutes for it trigger the first time, and then it triggers once again in 20 seconds.

 
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Ok so I know it looks like crap now, but since this dhjdhj forum doesn’t want to accept normal lines I tried to add in tiny pictures of white, which for some reason works the first 3 lines but then it gets all huge and crap. I will fix it tomorrow. Anyone who knows the forum who can give me a better idea of how to fix it? I wouldn’t want to read it without some sort of layout.

 
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@woto
I don’t remember assuming ur a he, was that comment meant at me?
As for the buy/sell guidelines, it very much depends on whether or not you are using LolMarket Control. without it you won’t reach such extreme values like a lvl 1 gem for 500ish buy price.
Since the guidelines should be for the less experienced players I’d say something like this:
- Without LolMarket Control, buy prices at 1200x gem level, sell prices at 1800x gem level.
- With LolMarket Control, buy prices at 900x gem level, sell prices at 2100x gem level.
Both can vary depending on demand. These are just my quick guesses though.

Originally posted by chaosguard:

Yup. Being a programmer, a timer is the most simple logical implementation.

Either way yea it is possible but then there must be some way of preventing it from taking too long.

Yeah, you typically set a pre-determined Minimum & Maximum if this is how its implemented. For example, if its set to… 2 + random(4) then the minimum is 2 mins, max is 6, average is 4. Course it would actually be scripted in miliseconds.

I’ll mess around with it a bit and see if I can get anything more concrete.

I’m (sort of) a programmer too lol :)
Even simpler than a timer for me would be putting it on something else that already runs regularly/timed. In this case I thought the Progress Bar until Draconi proved otherwise.
I agree with the script, though minimum here is probably 0.

 
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Originally posted by woto:

Ok so I know it looks like crap now, but since this dhjdhj forum doesn’t want to accept normal lines I tried to add in tiny pictures of white, which for some reason works the first 3 lines but then it gets all huge and crap. I will fix it tomorrow. Anyone who knows the forum who can give me a better idea of how to fix it? I wouldn’t want to read it without some sort of layout.

woto, use <br> whenever you want to go to the next line.

 
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Originally posted by GeneralYouri:
Originally posted by woto:

Ok so I know it looks like crap now, but since this dhjdhj forum doesn’t want to accept normal lines I tried to add in tiny pictures of white, which for some reason works the first 3 lines but then it gets all huge and crap. I will fix it tomorrow. Anyone who knows the forum who can give me a better idea of how to fix it? I wouldn’t want to read it without some sort of layout.

woto, use <br> whenever you want to go to the next line.

Thank you, again. You just made my day =)

And, for the he-thing. Really I’m just posting random stuff cause I’m bored.

Originally posted by GeneralYouri:

Look at the image posted by woto earlier. He has +54 and +52. If it really does check and reset to -40 or +40, then that wouldn’t be possible.

I DONT LIKE THIS FORUM TODAY ARGH xD

 
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Originally posted by woto:
Originally posted by GeneralYouri:

Look at the image posted by woto earlier. He has +54 and +52. If it really does check and reset to -40 or +40, then that wouldn’t be possible.


I DONT LIKE THIS FORUM TODAY ARGH xD

This is already asnwered by Draconi.
Basically the system allows such amounts, but on the next update it will correct them back to -40 or 40. Therefore the demand won’t be above +40 or below -40 for longer than 1 LolMarket update.
This means that indeed demand limits are -40 and +40.

I’ll be adding this info on my spreadsheet about AI:TG soon.
http://www.kongregate.com/forums/60-anti-idle-the-game/topics/127735-spreadsheets-project

 
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Yeah I understood that. I quoted it to show you said “Look at the image posted by woto earlier. HE…” :P

 
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I’m (sort of) a programmer too lol :)
Even simpler than a timer for me would be putting it on something else that already runs regularly/timed. In this case I thought the Progress Bar until Draconi proved otherwise.
I agree with the script, though minimum here is probably 0.

When I was more of a novice programmer, I totally would agree with attaching it to something. Progress bar, etc.

BUT the maintenance on that vs setting up its own thread/counter is insane (in terms of updating ANYTHING, theres a lot of re-balancing to be done).

Imagine it being attached to progress bar. You turn in a quest that gives 20 insta-progresses and with your 30% progress booster, you get a total of 26 progresses…. market does a “Lulz wtf happened?! SHUT DOWN EVERYTHING!!!!

edit: I very much doubt the minimum would be 0 if this is how its setup. Having events fire back to back instantly is never fun, Im sure Tukkun knows better than that XD

 
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@woto i talked about what happens if you bought all the gems of a certain color cuz demand was high, and then later come back and see that demand suddenly and unexpected dropped (what happens quite often) and so profit dropped too and is now at lets say -2k, then you can sell one of the gems of these color, and buy it again, now you see that the profit raised to lets say -500, and with some math you will see that this is more than -2k. so profit is now at a point where it would be if you would have bought all gems. its just still crappy, but not as bad as before, also you will lose some overall-profit, but now your at a low point from where there is an increasing chance that demand and profit raises again, so you get your green coins back without much loss. its hard to explain, try it just for yourself, but only if profit is very low (about -1k), buy one more gem of this color, and you will see profit goes from -1k to average -500 or even more, depends on current price.

its like table with one of the legs too short and table stands unsteady, what to do… just shorten the others too to make them all the equal (shorter) lenght again, until table stands steady, but overall somehow lower. et voila you have a steady table, and dont care that its 1/4inch lower now. ;-)

 
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Originally posted by chippi:

@woto i talked about what happens if you bought all the gems of a certain color cuz demand was high, and then later come back and see that demand suddenly and unexpected dropped (what happens quite often) and so profit dropped too and is now at lets say -2k, then you can sell one of the gems of these color, and buy it again, now you see that the profit raised to lets say -500, and with some math you will see that this is more than -2k. so profit is now at a point where it would be if you would have bought all gems. its just still crappy, but not as bad as before, also you will lose some overall-profit, but now your at a low point from where there is an increasing chance that demand and profit too raises again, so you get your green coins back without much loss. its hard to explain, try it just for yourself, but only if profit is very low (about -1k), buy one more gem of this color, and you will see profit goes from -1k to average -500 or even more, depends on current price.

That’s what the profit says. You don’t get your green coins refunded. Profit is based solely on coins taken out – coins put in. So you’re losing coins by doing that still. It looks like you’re doing better, because the number which says profit has changed, but in reality you aren’t.

 
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Originally posted by chippi:

@woto i talked about what happens if you bought all the gems of a certain color cuz demand was high, and then later come back and see that demand suddenly and unexpected dropped (what happens quite often) and so profit dropped too and is now at lets say -2k, then you can sell one of the gems of these color, and buy it again, now you see that the profit raised to lets say -500, and with some math you will see that this is more than -2k. so profit is now at a point where it would be if you would have bought all gems. its just still crappy, but not as bad as before, also you will lose some overall-profit, but now your at a low point from where there is an increasing chance that demand and profit raises again, so you get your green coins back without much loss. its hard to explain, try it just for yourself, but only if profit is very low (about -1k), buy one more gem of this color, and you will see profit goes from -1k to average -500 or even more, depends on current price.

Yeah, I do know about this. What I don’t understand is why one should do it. As qlordz mentioned, the profit is based on coin in and coin out. If you look carefully when you buy a gem that buy-sum will be subtracted to your total profit, and when you sell one the sell-sum will be added. So doing like that, doesn’t it just make you pretend you get more than you do and lose GC on that first one you sell? I dunno, personally if that happens I’d just wait until it goes back up xD I thought it was something like it being stuck. Thanks for explaining though =)

 
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Originally posted by chippi:

@woto i talked about what happens if you bought all the gems of a certain color cuz demand was high, and then later come back and see that demand suddenly and unexpected dropped (what happens quite often) and so profit dropped too and is now at lets say -2k, then you can sell one of the gems of these color, and buy it again, now you see that the profit raised to lets say -500, and with some math you will see that this is more than -2k. so profit is now at a point where it would be if you would have bought all gems. its just still crappy, but not as bad as before, also you will lose some overall-profit, but now your at a low point from where there is an increasing chance that demand and profit raises again, so you get your green coins back without much loss. its hard to explain, try it just for yourself, but only if profit is very low (about -1k), buy one more gem of this color, and you will see profit goes from -1k to average -500 or even more, depends on current price.

its like table with one of the legs too short and table stands unsteady, what to do… just shorten the others too to make them all the equal (shorter) lenght again, until table stands steady, but overall somehow lower. et voila you have a steady table, and dont care that its 1/4inch lower now. ;-)

That 1/4inch height it lost just so happens to be 6% of the gem buy price that you are losing.
Still not alot but it won’t gain you anything other than visual changes, and those are caused by what I see as a bug.
No use whatsoever.

 
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yea sure, in theory nothing really changes if just take this bad deal, but like in real stock market, you gotta keep money moving, and if you dont sell gems you will have the gems and your own green coins blocked and excluded from new better deals, which brings new profit so you regain the loss of the former one bad deal. just as i said somewhere else: greed is your friend in lolmarket. just be an opportunist there. :)

 
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…you do realize that you’re losing more coins by doing that, not gaining more, right?

 
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When is the demand/price updated? every 10 minutes or what? Does it update when the game is off?

 
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I buy if it’s less than ~1250 * level and sell if it’s over ~1750* level though I push those ranges out a little for level 1 which moves back and forth very fast and sometimes I’ll sell at 8000+ for level 5 and 9000+ for level 6 because they move relatively slowly. It’s not optimal, but it works pretty well for me because I don’t check very often so I’m not going to catch it at the exact peak. My total profit is up to 28M.

 
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Originally posted by chippi:

yea sure, in theory nothing really changes if just take this bad deal, but like in real stock market, you gotta keep money moving, and if you dont sell gems you will have the gems and your own green coins blocked and excluded from new better deals, which brings new profit so you regain the loss of the former one bad deal. just as i said somewhere else: greed is your friend in lolmarket. just be an opportunist there. :)

No.
What you do there, is you don’t look at profit at all. You sell at the highest point you can sell it (next local maximum of the price, most likely when demand goes from positive to negative), and take your loss, so you can re-buy and start making profit again.

I can see why you might want to do this for the profit achievements, but it’s just lying to yourself.