New players are not very smart (and this is okay)

46 posts

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So I’m in the majority here – the game got badges so I came back. Last time I played was at least a year and a half ago. I’ve been playing competitively against my boyfriend for a few days now, and sometimes either of us can’t figure something out, or miss something, or just need some help, so we come to the forum.

And I get it. A lot of you guys have been regs here for years, and know this game REALLY well. And you’re being flooded by a lot of people who have no fracking clue what they’re doing. You know what though? You guys are kind of being buttholes about it.

Like, it is REALLY easy to miss a line of text or get confused about an area of the game or do something dumb you didn’t know would completely screw something up. Or maybe it didn’t screw it up and you just don’t know what you’re doing. Because you’re NEW. Every damn thread I’ve gone into looking for help has had the same 5-10 people replying to people asking questions with rude, condescending replies.

Do you know why somebody is asking about the controls to a game they don’t understand in the “ask a stupid question” thread? It SURE ISN’T so you can tell them they’re dumb. They just missed the screen that told them the controls, or didn’t know where it was. Which is really, really easy to do when you’re new to a game, especially a game with so many little hidden features as AI.

There’s no reason to not be polite and understanding to people who haven’t done anything wrong but be new to a game, is all.

/soapbox

 
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I know what you mean. This game has the same terrible community that most other games have these days. Because of this, I just simply avoid the people here in general and skip out on something if I don’t understand it. My first play was 873 days ago(according to the stats screen, also I’ve been playing pretty regularly since then) and I doubt anyone here would recognize my name.

You’re honestly just better off avoiding these people, but that’s just my opinion.

Edit: No such thing as playing games for fun these days. It’s all about being the best even if it involves making other people not even want to play with terrible attitudes. If it’s not about being the best then it’s about being one of the “old people”. For some reason that makes you soopar cool here on the internet.

 
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I mean, I’m not here in this forum to make friends. But there’s some stuff here that’s legitimately helpful/useful/etc. And it’s really, really painful to try to read through the FAQ thread to find the solution to a problem I’ve been having when every answer is a person harassing the asker.

 
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Originally posted by Pixieeee:

I mean, I’m not here in this forum to make friends. But there’s some stuff here that’s legitimately helpful/useful/etc. And it’s really, really painful to try to read through the FAQ thread to find the solution to a problem I’ve been having when every answer is a person harassing the asker.

I know what you mean. It’s probably better off for you to ask in the actual game chat. It’s equally as bad a lot of the time, but at least your question gets answered fairly quickly… More quickly than the forum anyways.

 
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Come to room 3 there is nothing bad about it :P. It is true though that I have heard this forum has a bad attitude. However I have checked the last few pages of BA Megathread and stupid questions thread and I don’t see any rude replies or whatever so I don’t really see any of this old players rage.

 
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Okay. Be a friend and do your best to read this with positive eyes.

1. I agree. There’s A LOT of people in this community that needs to cut the crap and be less rude to people who just don’t have the experience. I want to believe I’m not one of them, but I am biased and might not notice. I hear you though. This is something I’ve been debating for a long time.

2. That said, coming here and calling us buttholes is unlikely to fix it. Being rude about people being rude puts you in the same group, and that’s not going to take anyone anywhere. It’s quite possible to in a pleasant manner say the same thing, and not do the same thing you complain about.

3. You need to understand that when the 150th person asks the same question, you might not want to reply any more. We don’t get paid to answer questions, we do this on our free time because we want to help, but there’s a limit to how many times you can reply to “how to give weapon to robacon” without being sick to your stomach of it. Anyone can make an innocent mistake, but there’s also a whole lot of lazy. Too lazy to read though, too lazy to search, too lazy to try. These people are usually really easy to tell apart from those who really just made an innocent mistake and do their best not to ask “stupid” questions.

In sum up: I get your side. I hope you get ours. Stop calling us buttholes and learn to constructive criticism nicely. I can’t speak for the rest of people, but I am always willing to work on my approach to not scare off new players. As such, I invite you to find a post of mine that you found condescending and rude, specify WHAT in it was, and I in return promise to work on it.

I must say I enjoyed reading this thread though (aside from the insults). This is a dear topic to me, and seeing someone else bring it up was a nice surprise.

EDIT: As it says on my profile, anyone is welcome to PM me if they have a question. I might not reply instantly, but I do my best to get back to you as soon as possible.

 
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The only thing that is wrong with new players right now (IMO) is not their fault. Tukkun set the bug reports requirements too low and now we have a load of people that don’t know how the game works yet reporting “bugs” because they think something that is working perfectly isn’t working properly.

Otherwise I don’t see anything wrong. I’m actually more and more pissed at older players than the newer ones lately.

 
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I liked the original post because it was well written and gave a side to the story that the original players are not able to see so clearly anymore. It was a nice post and I respect that. I don’t know where the perspective came from but I sure could use the reminder.

However, with that said the majority of us are not bad people and the only real moments where you will find us frustrated is when constant posts are made on the forums because people don’t take the time to navigate the forum and see there is already a post for their question. And it happens so frequently that it is very tiring on veteran players. I have no idea what that disco fellow is talking about in the first reply, if anything that is one of the rudest and most inaccurate posts I have seen.

Anti-Idle has the best developed community I have seen on any Kongregate game. We are not perfect, but we do pretty good. Most of us here are helpful. It is too bad you’ve had some bad luck so far. Don’t let that discourage you.

 
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I definitely agree with this thread. A lot of older players are indeed horrible personality-wise especially when they think they can “get away with it”, i.e. trashing newbies. I try not to, and in fact I don’t think I ever do really. Maybe i’m somewhat sarcastic or joke with them but i’m not straight-up attacking them ever

 
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I am pretty sure “somewhat sarcastic” classifies as being rude.

 
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I guess this is my time to apologize.

While I try to act as Anti-Idle’s help desk(At least for the BA)…as Aurian said, it gets somewhat annoying to have the same question asked over and over again. It is not possible to be completely unbiased, and I guess my attitude could use some work as well.

In short, I’m in the same boat as Aurian here.

 
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Omesh – The FAQ thread is hit and miss, I think the first page is pretty cut and dry right now? But more often than not when I’m there someone is being a butt to someone. Anyway, I think I’m in room 2 right now? Idek, I rarely use kong chat outside of my regular room. Maybe I will come say hi!

Aurian – Hello! I will try to reply to you in the format you replied to me.
1. I don’t got anything to say bout this one.
2. I used buttholes because it seemed silly enough to me to not be incendiary. I think the last time someone called me a butthole and was trying to actually hurt my feelings I was 9? I was looking for a word that meant that ya’ll weren’t being cool without saying “but you guys actually suck and I’m trying to be an ass.” I am sorry that it didn’t come off that way – I’m really not trying to be rude. I was using it as a silly synonym for rude. Being rude is kind of a buttholey thing to be, for example. I honestly think harping on me for that when I didn’t actually insult anyone – just said their actions kinda sucked (sucked/were buttholey/were rude/etc) – is kind of silly.
3. Here is the thing: I’ve been in this situation before. I’ve modded on forums and I’ve been the many-year-alumni-reg who has their community flooded by new folks who don’t know jack about the whole thing and all of that. It doesn’t change my opinion here at ALL. Listen, when someone can’t figure something out in a game goes to post in the thread designated for stupid questions, they KNOW it’s a stupid question. And it’s the first time they ever wanted to know the answer. THEY didn’t ask it 150 times before. You said it yourself – you volunteer for this. That means you don’t have an excuse to be rude when someone asks for the 1425th time this week how to do the controls for triangle count, because they’re asking in the right place and it isn’t their fault 1424 people asked before them. If you’re annoyed, stop. Nothing is ever going to excuse being rude to people for no damn reason.

As far as them being LAZY: that’s pretty assumptive of you! Sometimes you miss things, or you don’t know where to look, or you can’t find what you’re looking for. The second you decide you know these people’s motives enough to judge them on it is the second you need to step back and take a breath. I don’t think it’s easy to figure out who is lazy and who isn’t lazy – I think a lot of things meld together, and a lot of people communicate differently. And mostly, I think that if a person is asking a stupid question in a stupid question thread, nobody in the whole world has a right to be rude to them for their question being dumb.

Anyway, I wasn’t insulting you. I was using a rude word to describe a rude action. I’m really, really sorry that wasn’t clear.

Draconi – Yes I did step foot in the bug thread for a tiny bit and did a lot of cringing. Blurgh.

Beeshrine – Yes, I should have made clear that I don’t think all of the old members of this forum are being rude. As far as repeat threads: I said above, I used to be a forum moderator (not on this site. of course. there are no forum mods here). Repeat threads suuuuuck and are super easily avoidable. I mean, it’s because so many new game players are also new to forums. Sometimes if you you point it out they’ll be apologetic or at least understanding, and that’s great. But either way, forum spam totally blows and is super frustrating.

 
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Originally posted by Aurian:

I am pretty sure “somewhat sarcastic” classifies as being rude.

You can’t be babying people just because they are new either. I mean, if a statement/question calls for a “somewhat sarcastic” reply, then one should go ahead. Never be mean just for the sake of it though.

Or maybe that’s because i feel more at home with communities where you aren’t trying your hardest to be nice and friendly all the time.
I don’t know.

 
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Originally posted by Zerryie:
Originally posted by Aurian:

I am pretty sure “somewhat sarcastic” classifies as being rude.

You can’t be babying people just because they are new either. I mean, if a statement/question calls for a “somewhat sarcastic” reply, then one should go ahead. Never be mean just for the sake of it though.

Or maybe that’s because i feel more at home with communities where you aren’t trying your hardest to be nice and friendly all the time.
I don’t know.

I don’t think anyone gets anywhere trying to sugarcoat everything or pretending to be some super-friendly ultra-extroverted idea of a person, but I don’t think there’s a problem being at the very least, merely straightforward to someone who hasn’t actually done anything wrong. Like, you can tell somebody they should try to figure it out themselves without being mean about, for example.

 
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Originally posted by Zerryie:
I mean, if a statement/question calls for a “somewhat sarcastic” reply, then one should go ahead.

And how do you define which ones call for it? How do you classify when it is justified and not rude? How do you explain to someone coming on their first visit that their post justified a sarcastic reply?

Often sarcasm can sting more than flat out attacking, because it’s more condescending, and more sneaky. You might think it’s a joke, but it might not be to the other person.

I’m not saying rainbows, unicorns and lollipops should be the tone of every post (that would be hypocrite, given that I am nothing of that sort), but you can point out things without resorting to sarcasm or being mean.

Originally posted by Pixieeee:

I’m not saying butthole is a terrible word, I just don’t think your point will get across well if you lump everyone into the same box and set that tone for the rest. It’s a tip, nothing else.

You are absolutely right that nobody has to answer a question, and that if you can’t do it nicely you shouldn’t. That’s the rule I live by personally, as I rather wait an hour and reply when I feel more empathetic. But just as it’s understandable to miss the section that tells you how to move an item, it’s also understandable that you might not notice that you aren’t in the best of shape to reply nicely. I am just trying to get you to see both sides, as that is more likely to get anywhere.

As for the lazy, I think you are misunderstanding me. It’s funny that you do since you yourself state that repeat threads “suuuuuck” and are super easily avoidable. Very true, but often not what happens. Why do you think that is? The posts I am referring to are often the ones that show up as a repeat thread, and more often than not the question is phrased in the shape of “too lazy to look how do you x” or “where is cant be bothered to look”.

But, I think we are getting off on the wrong foot. At least I feel that’s the case. I support your message all the way, and I agree it’s needed. AI community has gone from mostly kind, to mostly grumpy.

 
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well, since i only stay in room #2 i don’t know what happens in other chatrooms, but as far as i know most ppl that do say a thing are either helping eachother out or just chatting.
I know there are jerks once in a while… but there are jerks in real life too… why wouldn’t there be any in some random game you find on the internet.

If someone is rude or asking how to cheat… well to be honest… i can’t stand cheaters… then we (more ppl in chat) try to convince him to stop cheating/ being rude… well, if he doesn’t stop, he doesn’t get help… that’s all
darn… didn’t want to write whole story

 
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EDIT:This is my reply to Aurian.
You can only classify it by personal opinion. And you don’t explain it. People do understand. They are not children (well, som might be), and they are not retarded. In the very worst case scenario, they will understand after a while, provided the sarcastic answer actually withheld the asked for information. And pretty much all statements/questions calling for such replies, are sprung out of laziness or actual stupidity, both of which, i would answer with something sarcastic in real life as well.

Also, the “this community has gone from being nice to grumpy” comment is complete bullshit, if i put it that way. Every single community i have ever been a part of/seen/whatever has a majority of members saying that. This community is pretty much exactly the same as it was several years ago.

 
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Aurian – Oh! If it is just a tip, it is one I will choose to pass by.

I understand that it is easy to not be nice to people, but I am not inclined to be gracious to people who are being rude. I think it is possible to understand but still disagree, which I do. Sometimes not being rude is hard. This doesn’t mean it’s okay to be rude. It isn’t.

Actually, you were right! I did misunderstand you! Most of the things I have been talking about have been in threads specifically designated for topics – so it turns out we are talking about different contexts. So, specifically addressing dealing with repeat threads: I think it is possible for a situation to suck without being rude about it. But my opinions on how to respond to repeat threads are the same as how to respond to repeat questions – if it is your job to take care of repeat threads (I don’t know if you guys have your own moderator system or what-have-you), and the way that you do that is by posting in them, then let them know what a repeat thread is, why theirs is, and what they could have done instead. Also reroute them to the forum guidelines. Do all of this politely. Not to beat the I WAS A FORUM MODERATOR thing to the ground, but approx 90% of what I did when I was one was deal with repeat/spam/incorrectly placed threads. It was a volunteer position, and I had to be polite and helpful 100% of the time. A lot of the time it was really frustrating, but you never know when someone just doesn’t know what they’re doing isn’t okay.

 
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I agree and I do agree with some of the points Aurian raised. As well:

Some of the answers are literally right in front of you. I don’t know if it’s just me being more perceptive here, or if it’s a thing with AI, but some people really want everyone to hand them stuff on a golden platter, tell them everything and exactly what to do. To play the game for them, and that’s really, really frustrating. I don’t know about most people, but I at least try to figure out the answer on my own. There’s several useful stickies. Hell, even one of them is a list of all the guides.

It’s a combination of a lot of things: lazy/“stupid” people, frustrations and repetition.

 
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Originally posted by Zerryie:

You are welcome to disagree, but I am sorry, what I hear from your post is this:

“People need to stop being sissies and not take offense. It’s not my problem to protect their feelings.”.

Might not be what you are trying to say, but it’s what I read. As for community not changing, that’s a matter of opinion. There’s some trolls that left that I was glad to see go, but also a lot of really great people, such as Quizer or rcktzr. Perhaps you can’t tell that they are gone, but I can because there’s posts I know would be there that aren’t any more.

Originally posted by adv0catus:

Some of the answers are literally right in front of you.

Exactly. I mean, I just answered a question where the exact same question was posted 6 posts above. Nobody expects anyone to read through the entire FAQ, but you can at least check the last page. It would have been easy to go “I suggest you check the post 6 posts above, where this question is answered”. Do I? No, cause that’s unnecessary. Doesn’t mean it’s not tiring and demotivating when people seemingly made very little effort. But I guess that’s when you eat some chocolate, pat yourself on the back, and take pride in being helpful regardless.

Originally posted by Pixieeee:

Forum moderators are not unexistant. We have an excellent moderator called IAmTheCandyman. He is however not an AI player and does not read the forum. If you think this forum would do well with a moderator who is actually active, you are welcome to contact a site admin and suggest this.

 
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Oh, I know kong doesn’t have forum mods. I just didn’t know if you guys had set up any sort of community specific moderation system.

 
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Kongregate does have forum moderators, that are specific to a certain forum. Who the moderator is of a specific forum is listed under “Moderators” at the top of the page.

 
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Forum members can flag inappropriate posts, and Kong Bot auto-deletes some inappropriate posts, but that’s about it.

 
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Did you know Kongbot also deletes any posts you make if it’s a new account and you played no games? I found out when I was making my using-forum-video, as it kept instantly deleting anything I wrote with my pretend-troll account. It was infuriating xD

At least I think it was playing a game that made it stop deleting everything instantly. I suppose it could be coincidence though and have some other explanation.

 
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Originally posted by Aurian:

The reason for that is actually really simple. During the summer, someone decided to massively spam several sections, and I mean page and pages and pages of spam. So one of the barriers to entry that were created was to auto-hide all posts from accounts that have no badges. There seems to be some special cases where it doesn’t, but it almost always auto hides.