Forums Tyrant

Offensive Deck Creation

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So, while the majority of the people are whining, I’ve decided to create a topic where some discussion can happen about working offensive decks rather than sitting there QQing about how offensive sucks now and defence is god.

Anyway, cut to the chase. Clearly, 1-drops are going to be a huge problem, namely the infamous Iradiated Infantry, Tiamat, Predator, Omega, Vampire, Hatchet and Arc Trooper. (ie 1-drops….)

You’d also have to deal with the legacies of Counterspam (Trident, MC, and such), All Structure defence deck and Action Removals.

New problems would definately be slowrolls and other popular add-ons to multidecks like Dominated Hatchlings, Stealthy Niaq and Havoc. (because their slowroll units go up faster than your 1-drops, haha)

Most legacy decent defdecks do not use Siege outside of EQG, possibly, and also, most of these defdecks do not account for Weaken. That is to say, 1-drop spam with IIrad and such. Therefore, Structures, up to 3-4 are extremely useful supporting tools now in offence. EDIT: Apparently, when typing this post, I forgot completely about Bolide and Titan.

EDIT2: Note that some offensive decks have begun to play Siege. Enclave Champions, and Cannon Walkers in particular.

Good structures to use include:
Earthquake Generator (Strike All 1, Siege All 1, Wall)
Blood Wall (Weaken All 1, Wall) [note: this literally paralyses any 1-drop stop decks]
Mortar Bunker (Rally 2, Wall, Siege 1) [this handles Structure defdecks well due to Rally and Siege]

Good Assaults to include:
Aegis due to Armored 1 reducing damage significantly and Heal All 2 negating damage.
Bolide Walkers have always been good against Structures and Counter.
Pummeller with its Evade, decent HP, and Siege is generally useful.
Dracorex/Dalia were popular defdeck Commanders due to Weaken.
EMP shines in any deck. Its such a no-brainer.
Mech Walker with Armored 2 handles nearly all the 1-drops you might face.
Cycle Mech for Armored 2 and Valor 2. Stops most 1-drops cold.
Cannon Walker still good for the Siege, AntiAir and good HP against Structures.
Shapeshifter is a decent 1-drop and is useful against anything with strong abilities. (Rifter, Titan, Bolide)
Pandemic, and Mend Wounds can also be helpful. (by retsamerol)
Vaporwing is useful for holding down a space and dealing consistant damage, with its Armor.
Hydra is a decent ultility card to have. (Siege 2/Armored 2/AntiAir2) (by AmberFang)
Tremor Wyrm has high values of armor and its Strike All can clear the board effectively. (by AmberFang)
Trident. Ever-popular defdeck card becomes new offensive card. (by kurtalmighty)
Exodrone. Flying, Counter and 5HP can hold down some assault-based decks. (by kurtalmighty)
Poseidon. Decent utility card but high delay, use with caution.
Dominated Hatchlings are fast muscle units with Heal 1.

As an example, my current offensive deck:

Dracorex
Blood Wall
Blood Wall
Shapeshifter
Bolide Walker
Cannon Walker
Pummeller
Dominated Hatchlings x3
EMP

 
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No offensive deck will work 100%, people just have to accept the fact that they will loose a lot more on offense now. Consequentally they will win a lot more on deffense.

The metagame has evolved and changed quite drastically, in order to win on offense you know need to know your deck and play your cards smartly in order to counter whatever the AI does on deffense. It is actually more entertaining like this, if you dont have the right card on your first turn to counter your opponent you can forfeit and give away the 10 pts or hope for a better draws on your next cards and risk giving away more pts.

 
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I think now the gameplay is focused on the manual action for wars, probably a player wants to overthink the random AI by making choices based on the first card drop, and counter the defence with his own startegy. I still don’t get how to achieve this.. it’s very challenging. Maybe the cards are designed for a different purpose, and building a proper deck which got some killing chances is now far from being designed imo. Basically, the card pool that the game offers as free game content is not optimized for this matter.

 
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Not a part of deck-building, but there are a couple of things I want to point out about attacking.

First, you can actually afford to lose quite a few battles. You get about 20 points for a win, and as long as you surrender [or get stalled] the opposing faction only gains 10 points for defense. So, you only need to win once for every two losses to break about even. If you can win over 33% of your battles on offense, you can contribute points to your faction’s victory.

Second, action cards will probably be dropping out of defense decks (because the computer can end up wasting them on the first turn.)This means that low-HP cards are viable options for offense. You only need to play smart and not put them up against a Tiamat or a Trident or something.

To be more on topic, some notable low-HP cards that you might want to include:

Hydra, when combined with Dracorex, can put a stop to just about any rush, as well as provide good AA and Siege. It’s a powerful alternative to Cannon Walker.

Obsidian can stand up to any rush in any deck, and it’s Weaken All makes it a good non-legendary replacement for Nimbus.

Hunter or Black Ops can be included to swiftly deal with slow-roll cards.

I’ve also been messing around with Median, an uncommon 0/2/0 Mimic, to deal with Strike defenses.

Hornet Drones can probably be used as a faster healing alternative to Aegis and Poseidon as well, being 1CD Heal All.

Tremor Wyrm, a long-time joke card, can now be used as an alternative to Bolide Walker.

There are probably plenty of other low-HP cards that can have some use without so much danger from a sudden EMP, but obviously, it’s still probably best not to have too many of them. If nothing else, they die quite quickly to Counter, but if you play manually, you can be smart enough to play these cards at the right time.

 
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Learn how to spell, but it is a good thread.

 
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@chacal, al_rodrigo: There are other threads if you want to discuss the implications of the “Defence first” change, please re-direct your posts there.

@yalao: The only typo was “Agies”; you’re free to contribute things too, besides pointing out that my spelling sucks because I can’t spell Aegis.

Originally posted by AmberFang:

To be more on topic, some notable low-HP cards that you might want to include:

Hydra, when combined with Dracorex, can put a stop to just about any rush, as well as provide good AA and Siege. It’s a powerful alternative to Cannon Walker.

Obsidian can stand up to any rush in any deck, and it’s Weaken All makes it a good non-legendary replacement for Nimbus.

Hunter or Black Ops can be included to swiftly deal with slow-roll cards.

I’ve also been messing around with Median, an uncommon 0/2/0 Mimic, to deal with Strike defenses.

Hornet Drones can probably be used as a faster healing alternative to Aegis and Poseidon as well, being 1CD Heal All.

Tremor Wyrm, a long-time joke card, can now be used as an alternative to Bolide Walker.

There are probably plenty of other low-HP cards that can have some use without so much danger from a sudden EMP, but obviously, it’s still probably best not to have too many of them. If nothing else, they die quite quickly to Counter, but if you play manually, you can be smart enough to play these cards at the right time.

Actually, Black Ops is inferior to Irradiated Infantry, simply because IIrad has 2/3/1 (BO has 3/1/1) but IIrad’s Posion takes effect over time and before heal, so effectively, it deals 3 per attack, and 1 damage even when not attacking. Plus BO dies straight to Counter (ie Commander Center) and Atlas (if it doesn’t Evade). Hunter is worse in that respect because it lacks Evade.

Hydra is a good alternative for stopping rushes though, agreed, but not for Anti-Siege because one shot from Tesla/Silo/2hits on CC gets it killed, whereas Cannon Walker would be would soak up 2 strikes from either. Plus it has less delay, and similar AA capabilities.

Bolide Walker is still superior to Tremor Wyrm though, simply because Bolide has Siege and cannot be Counter’d (unless you Rally it….) and is more resillent to Strike.

Hornet Drones may be potientially useful (still waitin’ on that EMP nerf….) but I’m not buying it just to put it on a test run. Tell me your results if its successful.

Median is rather dubious. It does shitall against 1-drops, Counterspam, and Structure spam. Perhaps if the meta shifted to more Activation-heavy slowroll defdecks like Bolide, it would see more play.

 
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Originally posted by LightburneR:

Most legacy decent defdecks do not use Siege outside of EQG

not sure i agree with you on that one

 
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I’ve been having much success with appropriately timed action cards. EMPs and Mend Wounds should be given their due attention. It slows down gameplay a lot, having to calculate when to play them. But it is quite rewarding when a well timed action card grants you the victory.

Activated DQs says “nom nom nom”.

 
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dont forget pandemic

 
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Originally posted by BenchBreaker:
Originally posted by LightburneR:

Most legacy decent defdecks do not use Siege outside of EQG

not sure i agree with you on that one

Uhm, well I completely forgot Bolide is used in a few defdecks, as well as Titan >__________>

EDIT: Added Pandemic/Mend Wounds to OT. And that note about Titan/Bolide.

 
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the hardest thing for most non-wb players is to get a Dracorex
dalia may have a similar function but not exactly the same, so i can only pray that dalia weaken the correct one in the second round, otherwise, a loss.

 
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Originally posted by him1988:

the hardest thing for most non-wb players is to get a Dracorex
dalia may have a similar function but not exactly the same, so i can only pray that dalia weaken the correct one in the second round, otherwise, a loss.

Well, if you’re stuck without Dracorex, you can use Marauders/Hydra/Anvil, which all have Armored 2 and can negate the attacks of most 1-drops. Or try your luck with Flying/Regen.

 
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Originally posted by LightburneR:
Originally posted by him1988:

the hardest thing for most non-wb players is to get a Dracorex
dalia may have a similar function but not exactly the same, so i can only pray that dalia weaken the correct one in the second round, otherwise, a loss.

Well, if you’re stuck without Dracorex, you can use Marauders/Hydra/Anvil, which all have Armored 2 and can negate the attacks of most 1-drops. Or try your luck with Flying/Regen.

i think anvil/hydra won’t work well, since some people combine thadius with irradiated infantry, thus one have to find a card with armor 3 to be safe. but these cards(only obsidian and tremor hunter?) have low health, cannot take an EMP, so it seems like i can only pray.

 
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Action Cards have been wasted by the AI before the change too – don’t see why people should stop including them now.
I for my part have seen enough of my hydras blasted by EMPs today to not believe in this.

 
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@Neograf: The only two Action cards used in Defdecks pre-change with any consistancy were Airstrike (where you needed, like 6+ of them) and EMP. (because its just that good)

EMP is obviously still used, whereas Airstrike may be more debatable, because a single Airstrike will always be wasted, if going for pure Airstrike removal.

Originally posted by him1988:

i think anvil/hydra won’t work well, since some people combine thadius with irradiated infantry, thus one have to find a card with armor 3 to be safe. but these cards(only obsidian and tremor hunter?) have low health, cannot take an EMP, so it seems like i can only pray.

Or you could include Dalia, and play your own 1-drop deck. There are quite a number of ways to get around IIrad. The real problem is getting around IIrad, and the other defdecks.

 
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It’s like a breath of fresh air. Hope folks will use less EMP and more brains.
Offense decks will be completely reworked, which is great. I think we’ll see more armour and buildings in offence (like mentioned before), 2 hp units like hornet drones, gruesome crawler, and much more counter in offense.

 
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Originally posted by Moonfrost:

It’s like a breath of fresh air. Hope folks will use less EMP and more brains.
Offense decks will be completely reworked, which is great. I think we’ll see more armour and buildings in offence (like mentioned before), 2 hp units like hornet drones, gruesome crawler, and much more counter in offense.

:p nope still using 2 emps BECAUSE of the fact that people are ignoreing it, so they are gonna go play things now that EMP roflstomped. this will allow my second EMP to clean up the mess of 2 HP dudes who will now be used.

 
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Originally posted by LightburneR:

Actually, Black Ops is inferior to Irradiated Infantry, simply because IIrad has 2/3/1 (BO has 3/1/1) but IIrad’s Posion takes effect over time and before heal, so effectively, it deals 3 per attack, and 1 damage even when not attacking. Plus BO dies straight to Counter (ie Commander Center) and Atlas (if it doesn’t Evade). Hunter is worse in that respect because it lacks Evade.

Hydra is a good alternative for stopping rushes though, agreed, but not for Anti-Siege because one shot from Tesla/Silo/2hits on CC gets it killed, whereas Cannon Walker would be would soak up 2 strikes from either. Plus it has less delay, and similar AA capabilities.

Bolide Walker is still superior to Tremor Wyrm though, simply because Bolide has Siege and cannot be Counter’d (unless you Rally it….) and is more resillent to Strike.

Hornet Drones may be potientially useful (still waitin’ on that EMP nerf….) but I’m not buying it just to put it on a test run. Tell me your results if its successful.

Median is rather dubious. It does shitall against 1-drops, Counterspam, and Structure spam. Perhaps if the meta shifted to more Activation-heavy slowroll defdecks like Bolide, it would see more play.

True enough about Black Ops I suppose, it just came to mind.

Hydra can’t totally replace a Cannon Walker, but it can be more useful to have a Hydra and a Cannon Walker instead of two Cannon Walkers. Hydra still performs decently against structures: it can help take down Tesla Cannons and Silos before they activate. True about Commander Centers, but you’d use other cards in that case.

Similar situation with Bolide vs Wyrm. Sure, you can have two Bolides, but both are useless if your opponent rushes. But if you had one Bolide and one Tremor Wyrm, then you have two cards with Strike All 2, and one that can deal with rush and the other can deal with structures.

I’m getting Hornet Drones eventually [because I’m a completionist], but I might pick it up sooner than I otherwise would.

Median is a card that I’d probably include and remove according to the defense decks of the opposing faction. If their running a lot of Strike defense, I’ll definitely put it in, which is why I was playing with it. For the war I was using it, there were a couple of guys who had Bolides that were messing me up, so I threw in Median and destroyed those decks when I came across them. Might be better off using Shapeshifter, or maybe even Abolisher, Speculus, or a Mirror Wall, but it’s good to add in if you can use it.

But that leads me to think that there will probably never be an “end-all be-all” offense deck, because you’re probably better off adapting your offense in each war (with the help of your faction members preferably.) Maybe at the higher ranks, factions will have their overall defenses in pretty uniform proportions, so I may be wrong, but it’s a nice thought. Would be rather fun if faction wars expanded into a battle of constantly changing defense decks requiring appropriate responses in offense decks.

 
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I think I have a pretty good offensive deck but the problem is this: Is there anyway to increase the damage done in Factions & Raids?

 
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Originally posted by Useless_mancer:
Originally posted by Moonfrost:

It’s like a breath of fresh air. Hope folks will use less EMP and more brains.
Offense decks will be completely reworked, which is great. I think we’ll see more armour and buildings in offence (like mentioned before), 2 hp units like hornet drones, gruesome crawler, and much more counter in offense.

:p nope still using 2 emps BECAUSE of the fact that people are ignoreing it, so they are gonna go play things now that EMP roflstomped. this will allow my second EMP to clean up the mess of 2 HP dudes who will now be used.

If I see a deck waste an EMP on the first turn, then that just gives me free reign to put whatever the hell I want because I suddenly have the initiative, and it’ll just be like it was before the change, except that your deck now has 9 cards instead of 10 at that moment. Pretty much a guaranteed win then. And that is why a lot of people won’t be putting EMP in their defense, which is why it is worth the risk to put a couple of low-health cards in your deck.

 
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Originally posted by LightburneR:

EXAMPLE OF AN OFFENSIVE DECK

Dracorex
Blood Wall
Blood Wall
Shapeshifter
Bolide Walker
Bolide Walker
Pummeller
Aegis
Aegis
Mortar Bunker
Cannon Walker

Is this something you’ve honestly won a battle with? Because it’s difficult to see that happening. Especially against a thad+II rush.

EDIT: Don’t take this personally, but I just tried this twice on manual and got my ass handed to me both times. This deck is full of crap.

 
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Originally posted by AmberFang:
Originally posted by Useless_mancer:
Originally posted by Moonfrost:

It’s like a breath of fresh air. Hope folks will use less EMP and more brains.
Offense decks will be completely reworked, which is great. I think we’ll see more armour and buildings in offence (like mentioned before), 2 hp units like hornet drones, gruesome crawler, and much more counter in offense.

:p nope still using 2 emps BECAUSE of the fact that people are ignoreing it, so they are gonna go play things now that EMP roflstomped. this will allow my second EMP to clean up the mess of 2 HP dudes who will now be used.

If I see a deck waste an EMP on the first turn, then that just gives me free reign to put whatever the hell I want because I suddenly have the initiative, and it’ll just be like it was before the change, except that your deck now has 9 cards instead of 10 at that moment. Pretty much a guaranteed win then. And that is why a lot of people won’t be putting EMP in their defense, which is why it is worth the risk to put a couple of low-health cards in your deck.

I’m one for seeing on average a higher then 1 for 1 ratio with my deck.

EMP has the potential then for trading alot for 1 and causing alot of problems because this update is just inviting people to run then 2 hp or less card spam, and hoping they break through the faster d-decks. this will allow a single EMP to trade as even up too a 5-8 for 1 which has happened a few times for me.

 
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i know some people have this figured out

my alliance has been getting hammered and it hasn’t been close

 
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Originally posted by Useless_mancer:
Originally posted by AmberFang:
Originally posted by Useless_mancer:
Originally posted by Moonfrost:

It’s like a breath of fresh air. Hope folks will use less EMP and more brains.
Offense decks will be completely reworked, which is great. I think we’ll see more armour and buildings in offence (like mentioned before), 2 hp units like hornet drones, gruesome crawler, and much more counter in offense.

:p nope still using 2 emps BECAUSE of the fact that people are ignoreing it, so they are gonna go play things now that EMP roflstomped. this will allow my second EMP to clean up the mess of 2 HP dudes who will now be used.

If I see a deck waste an EMP on the first turn, then that just gives me free reign to put whatever the hell I want because I suddenly have the initiative, and it’ll just be like it was before the change, except that your deck now has 9 cards instead of 10 at that moment. Pretty much a guaranteed win then. And that is why a lot of people won’t be putting EMP in their defense, which is why it is worth the risk to put a couple of low-health cards in your deck.

I’m one for seeing on average a higher then 1 for 1 ratio with my deck.

EMP has the potential then for trading alot for 1 and causing alot of problems because this update is just inviting people to run then 2 hp or less card spam, and hoping they break through the faster d-decks. this will allow a single EMP to trade as even up too a 5-8 for 1 which has happened a few times for me.

So far, wasted action cards on the first turn have all led to instant victories for me. Granted, Hydra is the only 2 HP card I’m using at the moment, so I’m not really vulnerable. But even if people think there isn’t that much EMP, they still wouldn’t use too many low-health cards because there’s still plenty enough threat from other Strike cards, like Atlas [and too many low health cards would make you defenseless against strike rush]. The point is that it’s safe to include 1 or 2 low health cards in your deck because, unlike the AI, you should be smart enough to know when to play them.

 
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Originally posted by Moonfrost:

It’s like a breath of fresh air. Hope folks will use less EMP and more brains.

EMP gonna stick around.

@AmberFang:

Hydra is still weak to EMP, and weak to Counter. It’s generally weaker, despite Armor.

Well, Wyrm still suffers from the EMP thing, and it can get smited by Tiamat fairly easily, as well as a variety of other things like Daemon/Mimic.

I feel Median is ok, at best. I do use Shapeshifter, however.

I doubt a non-WB “beat all” offensive deck will show itself anytime soon though.

@Xenon27: Not as far as I know.

Originally posted by JMCrooks:

Is this something you’ve honestly won a battle with? Because it’s difficult to see that happening. Especially against a thad+II rush.

EDIT: Don’t take this personally, but I just tried this twice on manual and got my ass handed to me both times. This deck is full of crap.

It is my current offensive deck. I’m in a 100~200 ranked fraction so I’m not sure if it would work for you, but it is working for me with a 70%~ winrate against Xeno Slowroll, II rush, Structures and Counterspam.

If you’re in a 100++ ranked fraction, I’m not sure about the defdecks there, so I can’t pull anything out on my side.