Forums Tyrant

How to design a balanced card?

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Pitfall #1: Attack too high? Reduce health.

Let’s have a look at the card which has the highest attack among all cards that have been released.

Blight Golem, 8/3/4, Bloodthirsty Uncommon.

Besides to achieve One-Hit Kill and Overkill achievements, who has this card in their main deck, please raise your hand. Any one?

To make the problem more obvious, let try the following simulation, Dementia (The Bloodthirsty command who offers the best Heal) + 10 x Blight Golem vs. Cyrus + 10 x Heavy Infantry. And we will let Dementia play first. And which side will win?

Every single Blight Golem will be killed in two shots by opposing Heavy Infantry, although helped by Dementia’s Heal All Bloodthirsty 1. And this won’t change even if we change Blight Golem to 8/3/3. So how to fix this? I would suggest make it 8/6/4. Come on, the card with the highest attack should not just be a joke, give it a chance to fight.

Cards falling into this pitfall including Xeno Mauler, Merciless Invader, and Grinder to a less degree.

 
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Originally posted by DylanHunt:

Pitfall #1: Attack too high? Reduce health.

Let’s have a look at the card which has the highest attack among all cards that have been released.

Blight Golem, 8/3/4, Bloodthirsty Uncommon.

Besides to achieve One-Hit Kill and Overkill achievements, who has this card in their main deck, please raise your hand. Any one?

To make the problem more obvious, let try the following simulation, Dementia (The Bloodthirsty command who offers the best Heal) + 10 x Blight Golem vs. Cyrus + 10 x Heavy Infantry. And we will let Dementia play first. And which side will win?

Every single Blight Golem will be killed in two shots by opposing Heavy Infantry, although helped by Dementia’s Heal All Bloodthirsty 1. And this won’t change even if we change Blight Golem to 8/3/3. So how to fix this? I would suggest make it 8/6/4. Come on, the card with the highest attack should not just be a joke, give it a chance to fight.

Cards falling into this pitfall including Xeno Mauler, Merciless Invader, and Grinder to a less degree.

this has already been done and it’S called quad walker. this card is perfectly balanced

which makes dominated hatchlings overpowered.

every card that can kill quad walker too easily is OP, and any card that has hard tome killing it is UP

 
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  • raises hand *

Blight golem, enemy plays
a) Titan
b) Bolide Walker
c) Pummeler

Battle starts, they die
Blight golem is a very useful one hitter, believe me.
Also, super-nice to get 25 damage in most raids.

 
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lots of cards in this game are useless in faction wars, BG is just one of them

 
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most cards are useless.

 
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I use blight golem in my tartarus swarm deck, seems to help get 25 points a lot of the time. Its health is irrelevant to this purpose (as long as it is greater than 1 and survives acid splash).

 
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work out the moment of inertia of the card since moment of inertia of the univere is zero the must be some counterpart in existance which ounter acts it

 
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Originally posted by NicolBolas:

most cards are useless.

Ah, this is the words of an experienced tyrant player!

Originally posted by DylanHunt:

Pitfall #1: Attack too high? Reduce health.

Let’s have a look at the card which has the highest attack among all cards that have been released.

Blight Golem, 8/3/4, Bloodthirsty Uncommon.

Besides to achieve One-Hit Kill and Overkill achievements, who has this card in their main deck, please raise your hand. Any one?

To make the problem more obvious, let try the following simulation, Dementia (The Bloodthirsty command who offers the best Heal) + 10 x Blight Golem vs. Cyrus + 10 x Heavy Infantry. And we will let Dementia play first. And which side will win?

Every single Blight Golem will be killed in two shots by opposing Heavy Infantry, although helped by Dementia’s Heal All Bloodthirsty 1. And this won’t change even if we change Blight Golem to 8/3/3. So how to fix this? I would suggest make it 8/6/4. Come on, the card with the highest attack should not just be a joke, give it a chance to fight.

Cards falling into this pitfall including Xeno Mauler, Merciless Invader, and Grinder to a less degree.

Blight golem really can’t get ready unless you focus a deck to keep it alive.

 
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Pitfall #2: Overpowered? Add 1 to delay.

Next, we will examine another Bloodthirsty card.

Blood Rider, 4/1/2, Evade, Bloodthirsty Common

Since Blood Rider only has 1 health, Dementia cannot do anything to help it. So let us bring out one of the strongest if not the strongest commander, the dreadful Dracorex, to lead 10 x Blood Rider, going against, again, Cyrus + 10 x Heavy Infantry. What will happen? The riders, playing first, under the support of the almighty Weaken All 1, got slaughtered.

Well, what went wrong in the design this time? Well, 4/1/1 plus Evade is way too powerful, definitely superior to Blood Grunt, arguably even better than Hunter. So how to balance it out? I know, add 1 delay to it! Well, now an overpowered card suddenly becomes an useless card.

So how to fix it this time? 3/1/1 plus Evade is one way to go, basically a Bloodthirsty version of Black Ops. If we really want to keep attack at 4, 4/2/2 plus Evade is interesting. Even 4/3/3 plus Evade will be a more playable card than Ravager.

Cards falling into this pitfall including Dreadnaught, Zealot, and The Wyrm.

 
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What’s wrong with your thinking?

Blood Rider will kill basically every 4d non-flying unit, it can also resist Atlas/EMP.

Nothing wrong with this card.
Yes, pretty much useless, but not way underpowered, just, meh, no real use of it.

 
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put all your pitfalls together in the OP

btw bloodrider will own pumpool

 
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Its an uncommon, its not meant to be used in high level play like faction wars.

 
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just feed your cards cider vinigar it will develop their body and mind

 
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I’m actually using Blood Riders and Tarantulas in Mutant Bloodthirsty 4 with great success.

 
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Hang a card from one point draw a vertical line on it hang it from another point draw the vertical line from that where they coss is the point of balance

 
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Originally posted by Moraku:

I’m actually using Blood Riders and Tarantulas in Mutant Bloodthirsty 4 with great success.

i’m using tarantulas :) whoo underused cards!

 
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Originally posted by BenchBreaker:

put all your pitfalls together in the OP

btw bloodrider will own pumpool

What do you mean by “put in the OP”?

 
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Originally posted by Leothyr:

  • raises hand *
  • Blight golem, enemy plays
    a) Titan
    b) Bolide Walker
    c) Pummeler

    Battle starts, they die
    Blight golem is a very useful one hitter, believe me.
    Also, super-nice to get 25 damage in most raids.

Oh, really? Then, my friend, you will love this card I made up just for you.

Clayfeet Golem, 8/1/4, Strike All 3, Siege All 3, Antiair 3

Now that’s a card of its own kind. Titan, Bolide Walker, and Earthquake Generator are all children’s toys comparing to this “God” card. And it can really one-hit kill almost any cards, including Kraken and Draconian Queen. If it is still Uncommon, how many copies will you put in your deck?

 
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Originally posted by deltatwelve:

Its an uncommon, its not meant to be used in high level play like faction wars.

Uncommons are not meant to be used in faction wars?
Mind Controller.Dalia.Blood Wall. They are all uncommon.

 
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Eve

Originally posted by Noly:
Originally posted by deltatwelve:

Its an uncommon, its not meant to be used in high level play like faction wars.


Uncommons are not meant to be used in faction wars?
Mind Controller.Dalia.Blood Wall. They are all uncommon.


Even common cards are used. Give me a cent for every Irradiated Infantry used in faction wars.

 
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Pitfall #3: Why is it so darn hard to win playing second?

Simulation a) Cyrus + Irradiated Infantry vs. Cyrus + 10 x Irradiated Infantry.

First Cyrus goes first and wins! So the lesson here, is you cannot win even if you outnumber your oppoent 10 to 1 because you play second. Counter-intuitive, but okay.

Simulation b) Cyrus + Blood Grunt vs. Dracorex + 10 x Blood Grunt.
Cyrus goes first and wins agian! Oh, even throwing in a great commander doesn’t change a thing. You still lose because you play second. Now I am a little pissed and I want to cheat a little bit.

Simulation c) Cyrus + Predator vs. Petrisis + 10 x Predator.
The second deck is not a legitimate deck since Predator is Unique. But what an unstoppable deck it is! No matter the enemy has Evade, Flying or Armor, they are going to die to the combination of Enfeeble, Strike and Antiair, right? But, wait, my “Dream” deck has just been utterly owned by a single Predator! Why? Because you play second.

I don’t think we need to continue the simulation. Too many cards will show the same result again and again in similar heads up showdown. I can’t even count.

Basically the majority of released cards were designed and balanced on the assumption that they will always be on the side which plays first. Only a few exceptions exist, such as Arc Trooper, Cannon Walker, ExoDrone, Colossus, Draconian Queen, Missile Silo. They are not over powerful when playing first, but are still playable when playing second. Unfortunately, they are all Rare and above.

How to fix it? You can’t tweak a card here and then a card there. Because this is a systematic problem. Almost all cards suffer from this problem. Unless you want to redesign every card from scratch, it cannot be doen. That’s why there must to be rule changes in Live PvP which gives the player goes second some significant advantages outside of his cards.

 
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DylanHunt:

It is not hard to win playing 2nd. You are going up against an auto deck, if you select the right cards you can win. It is not a difficult concept.

Everyone is just pissed because they had to start including strategy whenever they changed it.

Quit crying.

 
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Originally posted by xReplicax:

DylanHunt:

It is not hard to win playing 2nd. You are going up against an auto deck, if you select the right cards you can win. It is not a difficult concept.

Everyone is just pissed because they had to start including strategy whenever they changed it.

Quit crying.

Man, I am talking about Live PvP here.

Of course when playing second, you can still beat an auto deck which has cards you cannot have and lead by a super commander. We’ve all done it. That’s not my point.

The inherent design flaw in almost all of the cards are that they are so much better when playing first than playing second. And some of them simply become completely useless when playing second.

Will you still be so confident to say “It is not hard to win playing 2nd” against a human player in the same league?

 
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Dylan, you are just using worst case scenarios, eg. spam deck against spam deck.
I think that a spam deck user deserves to lose to another player with a deck that counters his II-spam.

In a “real life” situation, playing an II after the opponent played an II first is just stupid.
Play something like an ExoDrone or another flyer or use an armor 2 unit.
Think of Tyrant as an elaborate form of Rock-Paper-Scissor.

It’s not like cards are becoming useless when played second, just when played second after a card which will destroy it.
Think this way: The player that plays second has the advantage, that he can counter the cards his oppontent is playing.
The other player plays an assault card with anti air? Great, you know that you shouldn’t play Draconian Queen!

 
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Originally posted by BeatPeet:

Dylan, you are just using worst case scenarios, eg. spam deck against spam deck.
I think that a spam deck user deserves to lose to another player with a deck that counters his II-spam.

In a “real life” situation, playing an II after the opponent played an II first is just stupid.
Play something like an ExoDrone or another flyer or use an armor 2 unit.
Think of Tyrant as an elaborate form of Rock-Paper-Scissor.

It’s not like cards are becoming useless when played second, just when played second after a card which will destroy it.
Think this way: The player that plays second has the advantage, that he can counter the cards his oppontent is playing.
The other player plays an assault card with anti air? Great, you know that you shouldn’t play Draconian Queen!

Excellent point! Only if we have a bigger hand size than just 3.