Forums Tyrant

The theory behind RUSH

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Hello, readers. This is your friend Dylan Hunt again.

In this mini-series, we will take a close look at the one of the major deck archtype, the rush decks.

I) The value of your card

Fact) In general, after it is active, card with higher delay is more valuable.

Why would you include a 4-delay card in your deck if a 3-delay card will do the same job, right? To greatly simplify things, we will assign (1+Delay) points to any already active card in play, and call it the Current Value. For example, an active Tiamat is 1+1=2 points, an active Draconian Queen is 1+4=5 points.

But that’s not the whole story, isn’t it? How about cards still waiting for their timer to reach 0? If you have two Aegis in play, one has a timer of 1 and the other has a timer of 3, and now your opponent plays an Airstrike, which Aegis do you wish to survive?

Fact) In general, among cards with the same delay, card has a lower timer is more valuable.

Therefore, although inactive cards has no Current Value, they have Future Value. We will take 1 point away from its would-be Current Value for every turn it has to wait. For example, the first Aegis is 1+3-1=3 points, the second Aegis is 1+3-3=1 point.

Okay, in summary there are two kinds of values for each card in play,
Current Value = 1 + Delay
and
Future Value = 1 + Delay – Timer

A little quiz for the readers.

  1. What are the Current Value and Future Value of an active card?
  2. What are the Current Value and Future Value of a card still in your hand?

Until next time, Dylan out.

 
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and the point of this thread is ?

 
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Originally posted by Siberian_husky:

and the point of this thread is ?

to show that you dont get the point

 
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Originally posted by BenchBreaker:
Originally posted by Siberian_husky:

and the point of this thread is ?

to show that you dont get the point

Yes, i don’t get the point. Is this supposed to be a guide or something ? If it is then it is clearly worthless as there are many other things to take in account, not just delay and timer.

 
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Originally posted by DylanHunt:

  1. What are the Current Value and Future Value of an active card?
  2. What are the Current Value and Future Value of a card still in your hand?

I dunno lol.

 
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II) The power curves of your deck

First, the answers to the quiz.

  1. For an active card, Current Value and Future Value are the same.
  2. For any card still in your hand, both Current Value and Future Value are 0.

When you put any card from your hand (except an action card) into play, it will always get 1 point for Future value. However, the Current Value it will get depends on the Delay of the card. So let us calculate the Current Value and Future Value for the following decks, after each card played.

Impulse Walker x10
Current Value: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10
Future Value: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10

Irradiated Infantry x10
Current Value: 0, 2, 4, 6, 8, 10, 12, 14, 16, 18
Future Value: 1, 3, 5, 7, 9, 11, 13, 15, 17, 19

Trident x10
Current Value: 0, 0, 3, 6, 9, 12, 15, 18, 21, 24
Future Value: 1, 3, 6, 9, 12, 15, 18, 21, 24, 27

Colossus x10
Current Value: 0, 0, 0, 4, 8, 12, 16, 20, 24, 28
Future Value: 1, 3, 6, 10, 14, 18, 22, 26, 30, 34

Pummeller x10
Current Value: 0, 0, 0, 0, 5, 10, 15, 20, 25, 30
Future Value: 1, 3, 6, 10, 15, 20, 25, 30, 35, 40

Now if we plot the two rows of numbers for each deck into curves, we get the power curves for each deck. See the difference between them? Basically, the future value of every inactive card in play grows every turn. The more inactive cards you have, the bigger the growth. A low-delay deck trades the rate of Future Value growth for an earlier start in Current Value.

Quiz for the readers.

  1. Why is 0-delay deck not popular?
  2. When is the best chance for a 1-delay deck to beat a 2-delay deck?

Until next time, Dylan out.

 
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Originally posted by DylanHunt:

  1. Why is 0-delay deck not popular?
  2. What is the best chance for a 1-delay deck to beat a 2-delay deck?

I dunno lol

 
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Originally posted by DylanHunt:

Quiz for the readers.

  1. Why is 0-delay deck not popular?
  2. What is the best chance for a 1-delay deck to beat a 2-delay deck?

Until next time, Dylan out.

1: Primarily because there are abilities that ignore deployment, though by your reckoning this goes hand in hand with the value of 0 delay cards being a static line, rather than a rapid curve.
2: By destroying their cards before they deploy and meet their higher value.

Methinks this neglects several important aspects of rush theory as yet. A cards abilities cannot be ignored, nor are all three delay cards/one delay cards equal. Shiver does not carry the same value or Tiamat, Aegis is not the same as Dracus Wyrm.

This also ignores Strike/Rally, which heaps conditionals upon the question.

 
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1) the increase is too low, and depends on the delay on the opposite deck, by turn 2, 3, 4, or 5, it’s evned out, but the future value is too high for the opposite deck, and thus, it’s not even, since the impulse walkers haven’t killed anything yet

2) complete shutdown by turn 3 (after that, current value is the same)

 
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Well… when choosing the cards, their status like atk/hp and abilities are also important. So you have to factor them in while making a deck. And the values change from card to card and it depends upon the enemy deck. So, you can’t compare cards with just the delay/wait.

 
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I don’t quite get the point either

 
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The minimal requirement is to deal 3 damage by turn 3, that means 1 delay card activates and deals a total of 3 damage (by any means even going as far as taking action cards into consideration), this effectively takes out anything before activating except a few cards (omega, vampire, arc trooper and 0 delay cards) which is the central to the theory of rush deck. To basically outdeploy and outcontrol the board before your opponent does without losing too much in terms of card survivability *cough*hunter*cough*

 
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Originally posted by DylanHunt:

  • Why is 0-delay deck not popular?
  • Because the cards with 0 delay suck. Nothing else, really.

     
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    III) The speed of your deck

    Again, the answers to the quiz.

    1. From the power curves, we can see 1-delay deck is superior to 0-delay deck everywhere except at turn 1. And until now, it is not possible to completely dominate with a single card.
    2. From turn 7 and on, the 2-delay deck will exceed in both Current Value and Future Value. So the best chance for the 1-delay deck is to make the kill with the first 3 cards played. Otherwise, it becomes an uphill battle.

    Real decks seldomly have 10 cards all with the same delay. The actual power curves of a real deck will fall somewhere between those sample decks we examined last time, and also will vary from game to game.

    For an auto deck, since the 10 cards in the deck will simply be played in a random order, the average Delay of all 10 cards is the speed of the deck. For an manual deck, the player has the ability to choose the card with the lowest delay out of the 3 cards in hand. A simple way to calculate the speed is to take out the 2 cards with the highest Dealy and do the average Delay of the rest 8 cards.

    Because the possible delay of a card ranges from 0 to 4, the speed of your deck will also be between 0 and 4. A speed near 0 or 4 is quite rare to see. And players very often label decks with speed around 1 as Rush, decks with speed around 2 as Balanced and decks with speed around 3 as Slowroll.

    An interesting rule of thumb between well-designed decks is, Rush beats Slowroll, Balanced beats Rush and Slowroll beats Balanced. What this rule proves is that, a superiority in Current Value that last 3 turns or more usually translates into a win.

    And this leads to a type of cards which seem to have no lasting value in our calculation, the action cards. We all know action cards are the best weapons in player’s hand. But once played, they are gone. What makes them the great equalizer? Because they can manipulate Current value and Future value at the right time and at player’s will.

    For example, you have Tiamat and Predator in play, both active. That’s 2+2=4 points in Current Value, and also 4 points in Future value. In other words, there is no growth potential for your side.
    What’s on the other side is Pummeller and Blood Pool, both with a timer of 1. So your opponent’s Current Value is 0. But his Future value is 4-1+3-1=5. So who is winning? If you cannot kill the Pummeller, the Current Value will become 4 vs. 7 at next turn! You’d better win it now or you may lose.
    So even though it is just 50-50 and it will not increase either your Current or Future Value. Airstrike is a good option to seal the deal right here.

    Until next time, Dylan out.

     
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    Did NB highjack your mind ? lol. If not then where are you getting these stupid ideas from ?

     
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    hell no nicolbolas is better than this

     
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    Originally posted by Siberian_husky:

    Did NB highjack your mind ? lol. If not then where are you getting these stupid ideas from ?

    I think he makes a bit of sense, although he has an extremely poor way to express what he is saying. It is very tiring to read through that wall of text lol

     
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    Originally posted by yahoo234:
    Originally posted by Siberian_husky:

    Did NB highjack your mind ? lol. If not then where are you getting these stupid ideas from ?

    I think he makes a bit of sense, although he has an extremely poor way to express what he is saying. It is very tiring to read through that wall of text lol

    I get what he is trying to say ( or atleast I think I do ) but let us take this example >
    II and tiamat are both 1 wait cards, But against a obsidian II will fail whereas against a card like pummeller II is better. So his comparisons are well… not actually practical.

     
    Flag Post
    Originally posted by Siberian_husky:
    Originally posted by yahoo234:
    Originally posted by Siberian_husky:

    Did NB highjack your mind ? lol. If not then where are you getting these stupid ideas from ?

    I think he makes a bit of sense, although he has an extremely poor way to express what he is saying. It is very tiring to read through that wall of text lol

    I get what he is trying to say ( or atleast I think I do ) but let us take this example >
    II and tiamat are both 1 wait cards, But against a obsidian II will fail whereas against a card like pummeller II is better. So his comparisons are well… not actually practical.

    yea, that was why I said ‘a bit of sense’ lol

     
    Flag Post
    Originally posted by DylanHunt:

    Hello, readers.

    Until next time, Dylan out.

    Who actually reads this rubbish anyway.

    Dylan, just get out.

     
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    IV) The fun of Blitz

    The last post of this series is about a very special type of rush deck. As a matter of fact, I will call them Blitz decks instead since they operate in a very different way from the usual rush deck. They have been widely used to get all Speedy achievements. And they can also be deadly in Arena and Faction wars.

    These type of decks have to be played in manual mode and usually have a very small deck size. The key is to coordinate all activiation at exactly the same turn. It is very truly to win or to die at that turn. If we take a look at the power curves, we will see a big step in Current Value right at that specific T-turn.

    The smallest blitz combo is the well-known Rally Flag + Impulse Walker. Longer combos includes Mawcor + Asylum + Asylum + Chaos Wave, and Stormrunner + Tactical Infiltrator + Tactical Infiltrator + Frontline Warrior. And many other combination is possible, the only limit is your imagination.

    Pick the right moment to explode, use action cards wisely to keep alive until then and keep the moment after it, this type of deck can be deadly to any deck. For example, four card fear blitz

    Fulfilling Myst + Mad Cur + Asylum + Injection

    Have a nice weekend, Dylan out.

     
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    He failed to address any issue raised against him, failed to account for vital aspects of rush, and said that Rush beat slowroll.

    As such, allow me a counterpoint:

    Armour, Counter, and Commander abilities render this theory meaningless, as a card may have value undeployed.

     
    Flag Post
    Originally posted by Siberian_husky:
    Originally posted by yahoo234:
    Originally posted by Siberian_husky:

    Did NB highjack your mind ? lol. If not then where are you getting these stupid ideas from ?

    I think he makes a bit of sense, although he has an extremely poor way to express what he is saying. It is very tiring to read through that wall of text lol

    I get what he is trying to say ( or atleast I think I do ) but let us take this example >
    II and tiamat are both 1 wait cards, But against a obsidian II will fail whereas against a card like pummeller II is better. So his comparisons are well… not actually practical.

    I am pretty sure that’s not what he meant…

    he is talking in “mathematical terms” about the deck types of tyrant, and calculating who has the advantage at what turn, and who should try to get the upper hand by what turn

    what he failed to add in is that one player goes first, making a 4-delay deck into a 3-delay deck essentially