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[GUIDE] Quest / Conquest Battleground Effects page 2

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Originally posted by Moraku:

If you check the XML, it points to the same commander as the ones in the missions.
All that Tyrant does is remove those restrictions (including the on-card text).
So in a sense, it does ignore faction restrictions.

Two things…. To say that faction restrictions are ignored is incorrect. If you use a commander with faction restrictions they won’t be ignored. If there are assults or structures that have faction restrictions they are mot ignored. Now if you want to say the XML doesn’t agree with the commander that is in the actual quest or that faction restrictions are removed from the commander before the quest is started, then fine. But faction restrictions are not ignored.

Second, I checked with the devs on the counter on walls. They confirmed that they switched this up and made an exception to the counter rule for quests. In quests even if the attack does not damage the wall, the wall will still counter. This works for both player and enemy. Assults still need to be damaged by an assult attack to counter (ie if protect reduces damage to zero, there is no counter triggered).

Hope this helps,
Pip

 
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ADDED to Time Surge:
• Rush skill activates AFTER all other commander skills

 
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IMPENETRABLE: refresh wall’s skill does not activate.

 
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Originally posted by Moraku:

Impenetrable

Prevent all attack damage done to Walls. Refresh does not activate for Structures

• Only Siege and Crush can damage walls
• Counter damage from walls DO trigger despite walls taking no damage from attacks
• Structures can still Regenerate and can still recover health through the Repair skill

 
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LOL I’m a really good reader :)

 
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Another general rule: there is no legendary check for the enemy during cards selection.

Originally posted by TheRealPip:

Two things…. To say that faction restrictions are ignored is incorrect. If you use a commander with faction restrictions they won’t be ignored. If there are assults or structures that have faction restrictions they are mot ignored. Now if you want to say the XML doesn’t agree with the commander that is in the actual quest or that faction restrictions are removed from the commander before the quest is started, then fine. But faction restrictions are not ignored.

If it’s a semantic issue you have, I did not mention ignoring at all. The point I wanted to get across is what you state in italics. However, the opening post does mention ignoring.

 
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Originally posted by Moraku:

Just tested Payback/Evade.
Out of 10 attempts, skills that were evaded never triggered Payback.

Will update OP with the assumption that Pip was correct until this is proven wrong.

  1. Do we have any new information that makes us less or more confident about this?
  2. I cannot think of a reason why I really care about this exact issue, but knowing the answer to this issue might affect how I feel about a related quest issue
  3. I am currently under the impression that the skills on a card are processed in the order that they appear on a card
    1. If not, then uh, skip some stuff I am about to write?
    2. If so, then if Payback is listed before Evade on a card, then Payback would trigger whether or not the effect was evaded, right?
    3. Therefore, for Evade to prevent Payback, then Evade must be “listed” before Payback on the card
    4. Therefore, if the above is true, then in this Quest, Evade is added somewhere before Payback

In another thread, the consensus that in the Time Surge quest(s), Rush was added to the Commander’s skill after Rally (and possibly all of the Commander’s skills). http://www.kongregate.com/forums/65-tyrant/topics/283213

If the Evade/Payback order-of-operations for Assault cards works like above, and if the order-of-operations for Rush/Rally on the Time Surge Commander works like above, then I feel like there is a discrepancy in the battlefield effects implementation.

 
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Originally posted by hunterhogan:
Originally posted by Moraku:

Just tested Payback/Evade.
Out of 10 attempts, skills that were evaded never triggered Payback.

Will update OP with the assumption that Pip was correct until this is proven wrong.

  1. Do we have any new information that makes us less or more confident about this?
  2. I cannot think of a reason why I really care about this exact issue, but knowing the answer to this issue might affect how I feel about a related quest issue
  3. I am currently under the impression that the skills on a card are processed in the order that they appear on a card

    1. If not, then uh, skip some stuff I am about to write?
    2. If so, then if Payback is listed before Evade on a card, then Payback would trigger whether or not the effect was evaded, right?
    3. Therefore, for Evade to prevent Payback, then Evade must be “listed” before Payback on the card
    4. Therefore, if the above is true, then in this Quest, Evade is added somewhere before Payback

    In another thread, the consensus that in the Time Surge quest(s), Rush was added to the Commander’s skill after Rally (and possibly all of the Commander’s skills). http://www.kongregate.com/forums/65-tyrant/topics/283213

    If the Evade/Payback order-of-operations for Assault cards works like above, and if the order-of-operations for Rush/Rally on the Time Surge Commander works like above, then I feel like there is a discrepancy in the battlefield effects implementation.

I strongly believe the order of non-activation skills do not matter. They should work passively at a predesignated phase each turn. Unless, of course, we’re talking about multiple “on play”, “on death” or “on attacked” skills. These would trigger in the order written on the card.

I think we can be fairly confident that skills that were evaded do not trigger Payback. It’s fairly similar to how if Flying activates, “on Attacked” skills will not activate, because the attack “missed”.

 
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Payback shall only trigger if skill hits. Evade means it doesn’t hit, like a failed Jam.

 
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nvm

 
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bump. new questions added to OP.

 
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Originally posted by Moraku:

Feel free to add any details you can think of. This information may help NETRAT with fixing any glitches in his implementation of Quests in Evaluate Decks.


Unanswered Questions

What does a “Player’s 5th turn” mean?

Depending on how the first turn is allotted, the “Player’s fifth turn” means either the 9th or 10th turn, and every 10 turns afterwards, i.e. 9,19,29,etc. for regular Attack or 10,20,30,etc. for Surge. Not completely tested, but I tried Clone Experiment with a rush deck, I had the first turn, and turn 9 was the first time the Split skill procced.

The “every 10 turns afterwards” thing is just conjecture, since I won the Conquest battle on about turn 11.

Edit: In light of some new intel (a.k.a. a bug patch), we are no longer able to drop a card on turn 1 because Conquest was meant to be a “Surge-only” feature. Thus, “Player’s 5th turn” no longer means that the effect will proc for the player on turn 9. However, it means that the effect will still proc on turn 10.

 
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Updated OP with “Turn 9 / Turn 10” explanation, but left the “every 10 turns” conjecture as a new question.

 
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Forcefield
Both Commanders gain the skill “Protect All 1” (replaces any instance of Protect)

What does “replaces any instance of Protect” mean? For instance if I have Pantheon, does it protect all 3 times = protect all 3?

Or it is just for commanders and any other card can protect themselves or others as usual.

 
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Originally posted by bobpolson:

Forcefield
Both Commanders gain the skill “Protect All 1” (replaces any instance of Protect)

What does “replaces any instance of Protect” mean? For instance if I have Pantheon, does it protect all 3 times = protect all 3?

For example, Svetlana’s “Protect Raider 1” is replaced with “Protect All 1”. Your Pantheon is not affected. Only the commander’s skills.

 
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Thank you

 
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edit: I was wrong.

 
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Originally posted by Moraku:

Does a “Player’s 5th turn” imply recurrence every 10 turns?

No, there’s no recurrence. It only happens once.

Originally posted by Moraku:
What cards are being excluded from the random Summon in Genesis?

So far, no raid-only or mission-only cards have ever been summoned.

Originally posted by Moraku:
Does an “Armored 1” card receive “Armored 2” in Photon Shield?

Haven’t run into this yet.

Originally posted by Moraku:
How is Faction-specific “Strike” handled in Friendly Fire?

Valkyrie targets friendly Xeno assaults.

 
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Bump. I forgot to check a number of these questions…

 
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Faction-specific strike in Friendly Fire works as expected and is implemented correctly on your simulator. Cards like Praetor are good options to avoid self-Strike if you don’t add any targeted faction (Imperial) assaults or Cleanse.

 
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Originally posted by leftylink:
Originally posted by Moraku:

Clone Project

Clone Project selects any active, unjammed Assault unit before you drop your card

Hello. After our discussion in the SimTyrantJS thread, you found that jammed units CAN receive the temporary Split skill. This bullet point should be updated to reflect that point.

Correct. OP updated to reflect this.

 
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Let’s talk about Decrepit.

From the quests XML file
Both Commanders gain the skill “Enfeeble All 1” (replaces any instance of Enfeeble)

All right. So, I’ve observed that with Atlas, the Enfeeble All 1 comes after his Strike 1. He’s gaining a new skill, and it is added at the end of his skill list. Great.

What about Halcyon the Corrupt, who already had Enfeeble 1? What are the semantics of “replace” in the effect description?
Does his shiny new Enfeeble All 1 modify his Enfeeble 1, keeping it in the same spot in his skill list? In this case, he would use Enfeeble All 1, then use Mimic.
Or does he lose his original Enfeeble 1, and gain a new Enfeeble All 1 skill? In this case, he would use Mimic, then use Enfeeble All 1.

I’d like to test this myself, but I may not be able to do it personally. In that case, I will have to depend on the wise words of someone from the community who has seen this. Help me out. The fate of Halcyon the Corrupt hangs in the balance.


Guess what guys? I tested this personally (and you can too, with Halcyon the Corrupt or Lucina the Wicked, on any Decrepit tile). The answer… Halcyon the Corrupt will use Enfeeble before he uses Mimic (so Enfeeble All 1 replaces his Enfeeble 1 in the same position in his skill list). This ordering is much more favorable toward Halcyon the Corrupt than the other possible ordering. Rejoice, ye fans of Halcyon the Corrupt!

Let us assume that the same semantics apply to the Forcefield effect until we see otherwise. It is less important for Forcefield; there are fewer commanders with existing Protect for whom the ordering of Protect relative to their other skills matters. The only example I see is Kleave sieging a Crumbling Remains. Is anyone able to think of any others?

 
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On that note, does “replacing” remove faction restrictions? (looking at Barracus flavor)
There are a couple of commanders you can test this with.

 
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OK.

tl;dr: Faction restrictions are removed, as you would expect.

Zander and 4 Hydras face off against an unknown enemy force headed by Invasion Coordinator. Recall that Zander has Enfeeble 1 Bloodthirsty.

I play a few Hydras, my cunning foe plays a Steadfast Cannon, which Zander Enfeebles! He then plays a Xeno Mothership, which Zander Enfeebles as well (along with the Steadfast Cannon, of course)!
The lengthy battle ends in my crushing defeat. I have no clue how that happened. I thought my deck was infallible…

Anyway… I think we can see that faction restrictions are removed from this.

Just under five hours left in this invasion of the Decrepit tile! Submit your test requests before it’s too late!

 
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This post contains two questions, as well as two interesting discoveries about Clone Project.


An odd question for Impenetrable.

We already know that despite doing zero damage to walls, Assaults trigger Counter from the walls. Do they activate their own Berserk ability as well?
Protoflare says no.


One of the “unlikely questions” for Genesis:

If you are attacking a neutral Genesis tile and the commander is Typhon Eclipse or Vyander (Xeno Domination variant), what will they summon?
Their original unit?
A random unit?
BOTH?!?!


Concerning the interaction of the Clone effects’ temporary Split skills and Blitz:
Since they are only applicable to special battlegrounds, I believe this is the best place for them, rather than the Terminus skill guide, the other plausible option.

Clone project/experiment:
- An assault unit who activates Blitz necessarily cannot receive the Split ability, since the recipient of the Split ability is chosen before you play your card, and if an assault unit is activating Blitz, it must have been played this turn.
- (BUG! BUG! BUG!) If an active assault unit with Blitz activates Split, cloning a unit opposite of an active enemy unit, the clone will display the Blitz animation, but will take no action this turn. Instead, it takes an action the next turn. (This bug is just like the Lightning Strider bug).

JSON transcript of a battle depicting this bug using Charrionite:
http://pastebin.com/fwP8ywrp

The relevant turn of the battle is turn 9:
Notice how Charrionite #51 activated Blitz, then did not attack.

JSON transcript of another battle depicting this bug, this time with Spew Glider:
Before I play my last card: http://pastebin.com/3KcySmxa
After I play my last card: http://pastebin.com/rP9DF1VQ (energy/gold/WB values zeroed out to protect the innocent).

Notice on turn 11, Spew Glider #51 activates Blitz… then does nothing!
Now on turn 13, Spew Glider #51’s counter is at 1… but it attacks anyway, because of Blitz from the previous turn!
(This goes on for a few Spew Glider clones. On turn 13, Spew Glider #52 is created, and he activates Blitz, to no effect. Then he attacks on turn 15. On turn 15, Spew Glider #53 is created, activating Blitz, but he doesn’t attack until turn 17. And so on…)