[To the Devs] Please be smart about the "buffing" page 3

Originally posted by Shadowhopeful:

Originally posted by Moonfrost:

I spent around 300k chasing Tremor Wyrm — it was last card needed to complete Enclave (and more than 500k hunting Benediction to finish Standard). Will upgrading card mean that I need buying those awfil packs again??
NO WAY!

P.S. Balance in sealeds is not perfect already. Do you guys really think Wyrm with 7 HP will change it badly?

Enclave is actually pretty balanced because everything sucks.
The buffed version of Tremor Wyrm is essentially a “Win” button.

With amount of Mimic in pack, Wyrm with 7 HP is just few extra activations of Strike All 2 against Wyrm’s owner.

Originally posted by PivotalDisorder:

Originally posted by catepillar:

Originally posted by inorix:

Why not just buff the cards. But if that can’t happen, I’d go with option 1.

“Just” buffing the cards could mess with some of the early missions. Like facing a buffed Draconian Queen… New players need a contingency option for it, though I agree “just buffing” is preferable to this crafting nonsense.

they change commanders for missions, can’t they just change the buffed cards to old stats?

The mission commanders have different card ids. This is kinda how this buffing upgrading is going to go, but (right now) it appears highly likely that there is going to be a cost for it.

Originally posted by Moonfrost:

Originally posted by Shadowhopeful:

Originally posted by Moonfrost:

I spent around 300k chasing Tremor Wyrm — it was last card needed to complete Enclave (and more than 500k hunting Benediction to finish Standard). Will upgrading card mean that I need buying those awfil packs again??
NO WAY!

P.S. Balance in sealeds is not perfect already. Do you guys really think Wyrm with 7 HP will change it badly?

Enclave is actually pretty balanced because everything sucks.
The buffed version of Tremor Wyrm is essentially a “Win” button.

With amount of Mimic in pack, Wyrm with 7 HP is just few extra activations of Strike All 2 against Wyrm’s owner.

Name some universal Mimic cards that are actually used (Not counting Hydraulis)

I dun recall mimic to be widely used(though could be just cuz all card in enclave sux) so I went to double check.

For rare, you only have chaos wave.
As for uncommon, you have 3 choices with 2 3cd card and 1 0cd.
Lastly for common, mirror wall 1cd and enclave warlord 3cd.

The most reliable? Hydraulis. But also the most risky.

If you ask me, not much viable mimic actually other then hydra and maybe mirror wall. What is noteworthy is that only 11 card has 3+ dmg(including tremor wyrm) Interceptor and tainted blade has pierce(along with arc trooper under the new buff)

Edit: Shadow ninja me :(

Originally posted by decyfeR111:

The information has changed to 10000 gold cost each :D

LoL this just sux. I guess this is some kind of psychological effect huh. Demand a ransom of 1 trillion and then lower it to 1 billion and suddenly the ransom feel cheap haha.

Originally posted by Shadowhopeful:

Originally posted by Moonfrost:

I spent around 300k chasing Tremor Wyrm — it was last card needed to complete Enclave (and more than 500k hunting Benediction to finish Standard). Will upgrading card mean that I need buying those awfil packs again??
NO WAY!

P.S. Balance in sealeds is not perfect already. Do you guys really think Wyrm with 7 HP will change it badly?

Enclave is actually pretty balanced because everything sucks.
The buffed version of Tremor Wyrm is essentially a “Win” button.

yeah for mimic decks.

After surfing through the xml files some more, I found (what I believe to be) a fourth scenario. The devs left a commented line indicating that Conquest tokens all crafting items might become gold purchasable. We should urge for that option (at a minimum for conquest tokens) as it is almost exactly like Scenario 1, but better for everyone..

Originally posted by catepillar:

After surfing through the xml files some more, I found (what I believe to be) a fourth scenario. The devs left a commented line indicating that Conquest tokens might become gold purchasable. We should urge for that option as it is almost exactly like Scenario 1, but better for everyone..

They also left the same commented lines for every other component. This is just copied from a template, I’d assume.

Originally posted by Shadowhopeful:

Originally posted by catepillar:

After surfing through the xml files some more, I found (what I believe to be) a fourth scenario. The devs left a commented line indicating that Conquest tokens might become gold purchasable. We should urge for that option as it is almost exactly like Scenario 1, but better for everyone..

They also left the same commented lines for every other component. This is just copied from a template, I’d assume.

Yes, but I figured it couldn’t hurt to draw attention to the conquest tokens (that or I’m just a selective reader, I tend to prefer the first though).

Originally posted by catepillar:

Originally posted by PivotalDisorder:

Originally posted by catepillar:

Originally posted by inorix:

Why not just buff the cards. But if that can’t happen, I’d go with option 1.

“Just” buffing the cards could mess with some of the early missions. Like facing a buffed Draconian Queen… New players need a contingency option for it, though I agree “just buffing” is preferable to this crafting nonsense.

they change commanders for missions, can’t they just change the buffed cards to old stats?

The mission commanders have different card ids. This is kinda how this buffing upgrading is going to go, but (right now) it appears highly likely that there is going to be a cost for it.

yeah I understand that, I just think the masses should get their original cards buffed, and then the new card IDs will have the old stats, so that missions remain unchanged. [and possibly in sealed tourmaments too if the changes completely wreck them]

Originally posted by PivotalDisorder:

Originally posted by catepillar:

Originally posted by PivotalDisorder:

Originally posted by catepillar:

Originally posted by inorix:

Why not just buff the cards. But if that can’t happen, I’d go with option 1.

“Just” buffing the cards could mess with some of the early missions. Like facing a buffed Draconian Queen… New players need a contingency option for it, though I agree “just buffing” is preferable to this crafting nonsense.

they change commanders for missions, can’t they just change the buffed cards to old stats?

The mission commanders have different card ids. This is kinda how this buffing upgrading is going to go, but (right now) it appears highly likely that there is going to be a cost for it.

yeah I understand that, I just think the masses should get their original cards buffed, and then the new card IDs will have the old stats, so that missions remain unchanged. [and possibly in sealed tourmaments too if the changes completely wreck them]

Yep, with Gold Upgrades, early mission would be easier, Tourney metas would remain same (for better or worse) and low level players could be slightly more competetive 8D

regarding having different names and art for the upgraded cards, it would feel as if they were releasing entirely new cards. I’d prefer having a new expansion solely for those cards (with maybe packs with 2 upgraded cards for 20k gold each).

i think i’m more concern what it is the cost of it than how it looks like, if it is tokens then devs will probably see alot of change it or i leave tyrant thread

As I said, devs have a track record we must take into account.

Nexus is outdated as fuck, and the petition to make it gold is massive, yet still no-go.

It should seem obvious by now that asking for options friendly to non-WBers/casuals as well is a hopeless endeavor.

Originally posted by Eonian:

As I said, devs have a track record we must take into account.

Nexus is outdated as fuck, and the petition to make it gold is massive, yet still no-go.

It should seem obvious by now that asking for options friendly to non-WBers/casuals as well is a hopeless endeavor.

I doubt that even the WBers get any kind of respect from the devs 8(

Originally posted by Xyrus_G:

Originally posted by Eonian:

As I said, devs have a track record we must take into account.

Nexus is outdated as fuck, and the petition to make it gold is massive, yet still no-go.

It should seem obvious by now that asking for options friendly to non-WBers/casuals as well is a hopeless endeavor.

I doubt that even the WBers get any kind of respect from the devs 8(

all of this

<unit> <id>106</id> <name>Tremor Wyrm</name> <picture>wyrmunit.jpg</picture> <attack>3</attack> <health>2</health> <cost>4</cost> <unique>1</unique> <upgraded_card>830</upgraded_card> <rarity>3</rarity> <gold_cost>10000</gold_cost> <skill /> <skill /> <type>4</type> <set>1</set> </unit> <unit> <id>830</id> <name>Tremor Wyrm</name> <picture>wyrmunit.jpg</picture> <attack>3</attack> <health>7</health> <cost>4</cost> <unique>1</unique> <base_card>106</base_card> <rarity>3</rarity> <gold_cost>10000</gold_cost>

<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
<skill />
<skill />
<type>4</type>
<set>5002</set>

</unit>

Originally posted by Xyrus_G:

Originally posted by Eonian:

As I said, devs have a track record we must take into account.

Nexus is outdated as fuck, and the petition to make it gold is massive, yet still no-go.

It should seem obvious by now that asking for options friendly to non-WBers/casuals as well is a hopeless endeavor.

I doubt that even the WBers get any kind of respect from the devs 8(

QFT

Originally posted by Xyrus_G:

Originally posted by Eonian:

As I said, devs have a track record we must take into account.

Nexus is outdated as fuck, and the petition to make it gold is massive, yet still no-go.

It should seem obvious by now that asking for options friendly to non-WBers/casuals as well is a hopeless endeavor.

I doubt that even the WBers get any kind of respect from the devs 8(

I lol after reading that.

Anyway the 10k cost is a per card basis. Make no sense for it to apply to all card because what will happen should you acquire say more LR after you hit the upgrade button.

Given the high cost of 10k, maybe we can start a new thread and discuss about which are the cards everyone will “upgrade” and which are the junk that we will ignore. I certainly aint going to pay 10k for a fugging pierce 2 on arc trooper(whats more on a per card basis)

What originally started as a buff to useless card has become crafting new card :(

Originally posted by ohnonooh:

Originally posted by Xyrus_G:

Originally posted by Eonian:

As I said, devs have a track record we must take into account.

Nexus is outdated as fuck, and the petition to make it gold is massive, yet still no-go.

It should seem obvious by now that asking for options friendly to non-WBers/casuals as well is a hopeless endeavor.

I doubt that even the WBers get any kind of respect from the devs 8(

I lol after reading that.

Anyway the 10k cost is a per card basis. Make no sense for it to apply to all card because what will happen should you acquire say more LR after you hit the upgrade button.

Given the high cost of 10k, maybe we can start a new thread and discuss about which are the cards everyone will “upgrade” and which are the junk that we will ignore. I certainly aint going to pay 10k for a fugging pierce 2 on arc trooper(whats more on a per card basis)

What originally started as a buff to useless card has become crafting new card :(

Originally posted by ohnonooh:

Originally posted by Xyrus_G:

Originally posted by Eonian:

As I said, devs have a track record we must take into account.

Nexus is outdated as fuck, and the petition to make it gold is massive, yet still no-go.

It should seem obvious by now that asking for options friendly to non-WBers/casuals as well is a hopeless endeavor.

I doubt that even the WBers get any kind of respect from the devs 8(

I lol after reading that.

Anyway the 10k cost is a per card basis. Make no sense for it to apply to all card because what will happen should you acquire say more LR after you hit the upgrade button.

Given the high cost of 10k, maybe we can start a new thread and discuss about which are the cards everyone will “upgrade” and which are the junk that we will ignore. I certainly aint going to pay 10k for a fugging pierce 2 on arc trooper(whats more on a per card basis)

What originally started as a buff to useless card has become crafting new card :(

I like 1 or 3, 2 can go sit in a hole and die of old age.

Not sure if this has been brought up yet, but i think all the buffed cards should be unique

the last thing this game needs is more spam decks

i really think that the “unique” trait should be utilized a lot more than it currently is

Thank you catepillar for providing all these pieces of info! Maybe I finally remember to put those Devs server URL into my bookmark bar :)

Anyway, lets get straight into business:

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While we do love that some older currently expired cards gets a nice buff so they’d be able to compete once again indeed feels nice, I must say, having to wait extra long for a good buff patch is better worth it than a patch that is emergently designed and yields poor results. This includes card balance in

• Tournaments
• Missions/Raids/Quests
• In the world of a newbie
• In the world of a veteran

As well as the issues with pricing model. Original 3 scenarios, posted by Catepillar, so far seems our only options for now (though, I’ll give suggestion later for alternative pricing models)

The scenario 2 (you upgrade the card with conquest tokens) which currently seems original design and most plausible design is the least satisfying one in my opinion. Firstly:

• There is already close to infinite purposes of spending your conquest tokens. Packs, some unique reward cards and naturally, faction components eats A LOT of conquest tokens already and as stated, there’s literally shortage of them to which following factor effects:

• It is evidently proven and chimed out that conquest tokens are exclusively reserved for the members of the top factions (around top 25) so there’s room for about… 1000-1200 people to gain conquest tokens daily. Promoting top factions is just plain wrong direction. There will be no room for newer factions, factions end up in stalemate after they’re settled with their borders and new factions aren’t simply enough to challenge them. As a result, only the top elite of Tyrant will be practically able to get their hands on conquest tokens. Lucky us, they’re nothing more but endlessly replicable pixels and bytes so their quantity isn’t limited but if you simply cannot obtain conquest tokens by leaving yourself outside of competitive top factions, there is no other way to do (Hence I suggest alternative features of obtaining conquest tokens. Quests, daily chance, special missions?)

By "buffing the older cards, you’re supposed to bring newer content that is designed to be free and relatively obtainable by all player classes from newbies to veterans. Speaking of which, you’re not really buffing a card but giving an option to upgrade it instead, making them a must investment. The investment part is okay, just don’t force players to spend their conquest tokens on these upgraded cards if there’s already so many ways of spending them already

• I guess I already mentioned this but better to repeat: There are no alternative ways of obtaining conquest tokens and the method we have now highly favors top-factions (as pointed out above)

• Since tokens requires loyalty to claim for yourself, leaving a faction now comes with more dire consequences than ever before. Not to mention that if your faction suddenly dies and looses all its territories, you have to start all over again. And if a new faction is conquest war oriented and does not have easy regular wars, then any newer members will find themselves difficult to gain loyalty points, particularly if you happen to live at the different timezone than majority of your new faction members

Shortly said, conquest tokens are bad idea for pricing model. They’re too exclusive and they have way too many targets of investment for them

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Now with some brighter comments:

Gold or Conquest Tokens OR gold seems fair enough. This would give opportunity for everyone to quickly obtain their upgraded versions of currently “soon-to-be-upgraded” cards and would give incentive for veterans to start earning gold again. As the game progresses, you’ll find less and less decent targets of investment for your gold so having another target of investment for gold is, frankly, brilliant idea despite it might create little bit of pressure to newer players who have not yet obtained all necessitites with gold

Hell, I’d rather buy upgraded Titan or Nimbus than buy anothet HW packs just to get yet another Egor (yeah, that Joltrek of HW pack)

PS: Do you have to have un-upgraded version of a card if you you want to obtain upgraded card?

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While I find term “buff” contradictory to intentions of Synapticon, I’ll accept it and take it as an option of upgrade instead. Like said, facing upgraded Draconian Queen for a first time in Mission 28 must be a nightmare for a newer player. This upgrade model also creates perfect excuse to exclude upgraded cards from messing up tournaments

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As for my suggestion: You got to to do something with those abundant piles of Generators! Here’s your chance to give some actual use for them; Make upgraded versions of the card cost generators and not just gold/conquest tokens. Not too much, though, particularly now that conquest war has been live for a while now

And now from our other forum posters:

Originally posted by Moonfrost:

Upgraded card should have different art/name/both to be distinguished easier.
Having 2 different versions of card will cause a lot of mess.

This. There needs to be a distinction. Come on, it cannot be that hard to come up with some unique names that still resembles older un-upgraded versions of the card.

For anyone who is unaware about cards to be buffed, they can be found from here

I’d also like to discuss so much more about poor state of conquest wars, dominating top factions and conquest tokens in general, but I think I’ve written, I don’t want to derail this thread and I’m dead tired after this (literally)

Cheers!

EDIT: And I know everything on devs xml servers are subject to change. I’m just voicing some of my own personal analysis about currently planned and potential scenarios

tl;dr you’re hunterhogan’s alt