Forums Tyrant

[Petition] Nerf TI/Drones

122 posts

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Here’s some facts about TI+Drones (keep in mind that it is all these facts combined that make it overpowered):

1) Gold obtainable. Relatively cheap.
2) Can be bought directly from the store, doesn’t depend on being lucky opening packs.
3) Are both unlockable very early in the game.
4) Both are spammable.
5) A very effective deck can be run with very few cards in it, minimizing luck of the draw.
6) Is generally far, far superior and easier to build than all other fear alternatives (Concussive Guard, Grim Specter, Sycophant, Phantasm, Elemental, Tyrelus, Beholder).
7) Fear Cards allow you to completely bypass 99% of the cards in the game.
8) There is no direct skill that counters fear (for example, blocks it from going through your assault, as Crimsoneye has suggested in another thread). The only options are:
a: Siphon (doesn’t work unless you’re actually hitting another assault card, and is damage dependant, meaning if the card is weakened to 1, you only siphon 1 HP back. Also pretty much all siphon cards either suck, or are too slow; depends on luck of the draw to get it early).
b: Wall (with the current massive amount of siege everywhere high HP walls, with high delay usually add very little functionality/synergy to your deck, crippling it; depends on luck of the draw to get it early)
c: refresh (only two commanders with it, both die easily to TI/drone spam regardless – thanks for nerfing Moya, devs…)
9) TI decks work very effectively both as defense and as offense decks, whereas traditionally previous fear decks required specific orders of playing your cards to be efficient.


With all that in mind I’d like you to think about how this affects the game as a whole:
Is it really such a great idea to allow early players such powerful decks?
Doesn’t it hurt the devs income to have such an extremely powerful free deck?
Isn’t it bad that two cards can make so many hundreds of other cards completely unusable, especially when devs are making an effort to bring older cards back into play?

I think something must be done about these two cards.
At least one of the following:

  • Make upgraded TI unique (Heck, cyclops was made unique, is a LOT harder to get than TI and it is unable to win matches by turn 5, like TI).
  • Make upgraded Hornet Drones unique.
  • Replace rally all imp 1 from upgraded TI with Legion 1.
  • Make a new skill for assault cards that prevents a Fear card’s attack to go through it.

Feel free to post your own suggestions.

+1 if you agree.

 
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-1
Herc, Sabre, Death from Above, and various blitz cards already take care of TI easily enough. The new Stun walls should be effective too. I hope you aren’t using RSR, because I haven’t encountered any good decks in Standards that decisively lose to TIs.

 
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-1

 
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-1 i love killing all these “noob” TI decks

 
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Originally posted by oienoien:

-1
Herc, Sabre, Death from Above, and various blitz cards already take care of TI easily enough. The new Stun walls should be effective too. I hope you aren’t using RSR, because I haven’t encountered any good decks in Standards that decisively lose to TIs.

Show me a deck with heracles and sabre that doesn’t lose to everything else. And remember that the deck has to be good enough to consistently counter both TIs and most other meta decks, i.e. not just chucking heracles and sabre in an otherwise pure anti-wallstall, for example, and saying it is a good counter for both.

Btw, an early HoC in a TI deck would be the death of your sabre/hera combo, too. Don’t pretend you don’t know it, since almost every TI deck runs HoC in it. Also many TI decks run Draco, meaning even less of a chance of those effectively countering TI/drones.

You’re just afraid of actually having to use your brain to make a good deck, rather than use the cheapest solution available.

 
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None of the reasons in the OP support the request for a nerf. TI decks are not difficult to beat. No nerf is needed.

 
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No, NEVER nerf a card that is already out, this is one of the strongest pillar of Tyrant, start to nerf even one card and in the future you can regret it.

You are talking to a relatively easy gold-obtainable cards but the same logic can be made in any cards, how is if in the future you buy a really powerful Legendary Promotional Card for 175 WB and after some weeks the card will be nerfed?

 
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+1, so now an alt can build a top 1 deck or a 25/5 surge deck.
ridiculous.

other card nerfed:
mind controller (-2 hp)

 
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You can always tell who is new, when they assume no cards were nerf’d in the past. Which some have been. Apollo, for instance, although nerfs go back almost to the start of the game.

 
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Originally posted by p4n1q:

None of the reasons in the OP support the request for a nerf. TI decks are not difficult to beat. No nerf is needed.

Please go work on your reading comprehension skills.

I never said TIs are hard to beat. What I said is that in order to beat them, you make your deck weak against pretty much everything else. That’s the definition of “overpowered”, by the way. (overpowered =/= unbeatable)

Originally posted by munchtime:

You can always tell who is new, when they assume no cards were nerf’d in the past. Which some have been. Apollo, for instance, although nerfs go back almost to the start of the game.

Agreed. Mindcontrollers are the earliest nerf I remember. Used to have 7 HP, then a few weeks later got toned down to 4. Nerfing cards isn’t a new thing at all.

 
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Originally posted by OMGWTFFFS:

Here’s some facts about TI+Drones:

1) Gold obtainable. Relatively cheap.
2) Can be bought directly from the store, doesn’t depend on being lucky opening packs.
3) Are both unlockable very early in the game.
4) Both are spammable.
5) A very effective deck can be run with very few cards in it, minimizing luck of the draw.
6) Is generally far, far superior and easier to build than all other fear alternatives (Concussive Guard, Grim Specter, Sycophant, Phantasm, Elemental, Tyrelus, Beholder).
7) Fear Cards allow you to completely bypass 99% of the cards in the game.
8) There is no direct skill that counters fear (for example, blocks it from going through your assault, as Crimsoneye has suggested in another thread). The only options are:
a: Siphon (doesn’t work unless you’re actually hitting another assault card, and is damage dependant, meaning if the card is weakened to 1, you only siphon 1 HP back. Also pretty much all siphon cards either suck, or are too slow; depends on luck of the draw to get it early).
b: Wall (with the current massive amount of siege everywhere high HP walls, with high delay usually add very little functionality/synergy to your deck, crippling it; depends on luck of the draw to get it early)
c: refresh (only two commanders with it, both die easily to TI/drone spam regardless – thanks for nerfing Moya, devs…)
9) TI decks work very effectively both as defense and as offense decks, whereas traditionally previous fear decks required specific orders of playing your cards to be efficient.


1) so ftp people have a chance now? NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

2) Deck sucks without Enrichment Vail, point invalid

3) Very Early you say? like level 20-30?

4) So is Syco, Sabre, GS, Monarch, Split Jaw…

5) You can do that with virtually any deck

6) OH NOES! THE FREE TO PLAYS HAVE A CHANCE NAOW! HOARD THE WBS!

7) I’d look up the % of cards that are walls, but I’m to lazy :p

8) You sir, have never played with fear.

9) defense: turn one E-Vail! awee… turn 2 RADIANCE! <== I won that game :b

 
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Originally posted by OMGWTFFFS:
Originally posted by oienoien:

-1
Herc, Sabre, Death from Above, and various blitz cards already take care of TI easily enough. The new Stun walls should be effective too. I hope you aren’t using RSR, because I haven’t encountered any good decks in Standards that decisively lose to TIs.

Show me a deck with heracles and sabre that doesn’t lose to everything else. And remember that the deck has to be good enough to consistently counter both TIs and most other meta decks, i.e. not just chucking heracles and sabre in an otherwise pure anti-wallstall, for example, and saying it is a good counter for both.

Btw, an early HoC in a TI deck would be the death of your sabre/hera combo, too. Don’t pretend you don’t know it, since almost every TI deck runs HoC in it. Also many TI decks run Draco, meaning even less of a chance of those effectively countering TI/drones.

You’re just afraid of actually having to use your brain to make a good deck, rather than use the cheapest solution available.

other meta decks? :O for it to be a good meta deck it would have to beat TI! :O:O:O

 
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Originally posted by Superchar1998:
Originally posted by OMGWTFFFS:

Here’s some facts about TI+Drones:

1) Gold obtainable. Relatively cheap.
2) Can be bought directly from the store, doesn’t depend on being lucky opening packs.
3) Are both unlockable very early in the game.
4) Both are spammable.
5) A very effective deck can be run with very few cards in it, minimizing luck of the draw.
6) Is generally far, far superior and easier to build than all other fear alternatives (Concussive Guard, Grim Specter, Sycophant, Phantasm, Elemental, Tyrelus, Beholder).
7) Fear Cards allow you to completely bypass 99% of the cards in the game.
8) There is no direct skill that counters fear (for example, blocks it from going through your assault, as Crimsoneye has suggested in another thread). The only options are:
a: Siphon (doesn’t work unless you’re actually hitting another assault card, and is damage dependant, meaning if the card is weakened to 1, you only siphon 1 HP back. Also pretty much all siphon cards either suck, or are too slow; depends on luck of the draw to get it early).
b: Wall (with the current massive amount of siege everywhere high HP walls, with high delay usually add very little functionality/synergy to your deck, crippling it; depends on luck of the draw to get it early)
c: refresh (only two commanders with it, both die easily to TI/drone spam regardless – thanks for nerfing Moya, devs…)
9) TI decks work very effectively both as defense and as offense decks, whereas traditionally previous fear decks required specific orders of playing your cards to be efficient.


1) so ftp people have a chance now? NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

2) Deck sucks without Enrichment Vail, point invalid

3) Very Early you say? like level 20-30?

4) So is Syco, Sabre, GS, Monarch, Split Jaw…

5) You can do that with virtually any deck

6) OH NOES! THE FREE TO PLAYS HAVE A CHANCE NAOW! HOARD THE WBS!

7) I’d look up the % of cards that are walls, but I’m to lazy :p

8) You sir, have never played with fear.

9) defense: turn one E-Vail! awee… turn 2 RADIANCE! <== I won that game :b

1- Free to play people have been able to remain competitive ever since the advent of shards.
2- I’ve seen many variants of it without enrichment vial, and still very effective.
3- Yes level 20-30, even if that were an accurate figure you haven’t pulled out of who knows where, is early considering it is an effective deck all the way throughout the end-game.
4- Tyrelus, elemental and beholder are all legendary/unique and far, far inferior to it. Also compare it to GS and concussive guard, they should clearly be either unique or have a different set of skills with those stats.
5- No, you can’t.
6- Missed the point completely. Also fear has been traditionally WB-only for one simple reason: it allows you to bypass almost all the cards in the game, save for wall structures. That makes it a powerful enough skill that it should only be given to situational cards, or made WB exclusive. Devs chose the WB exclusive way (not that I think it was the best choice, either). But it was necessary. The consequences of making it no longer WB exclusive are clear (eventhough it hasn’t been WB exclusive ever since Phobos packs were available for tokens, but at least it was still under control like that).
7- I’m not surprised.
8- Again pulling stuff out of your ass.
9- Like I said, vial isn’t mandatory for TI to work, there are many other valid strategies, like other sources of augment, and spamming. TI decks aren’t “win by turn 5 or you’re toast”, FYI (which just goes to show how TI+drones are powerful, since they synergize so well with so many cards).

 
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Originally posted by Superchar1998:
Originally posted by OMGWTFFFS:

Here’s some facts about TI+Drones:

1) Gold obtainable. Relatively cheap.
2) Can be bought directly from the store, doesn’t depend on being lucky opening packs.
3) Are both unlockable very early in the game.
4) Both are spammable.
5) A very effective deck can be run with very few cards in it, minimizing luck of the draw.
6) Is generally far, far superior and easier to build than all other fear alternatives (Concussive Guard, Grim Specter, Sycophant, Phantasm, Elemental, Tyrelus, Beholder).
7) Fear Cards allow you to completely bypass 99% of the cards in the game.
8) There is no direct skill that counters fear (for example, blocks it from going through your assault, as Crimsoneye has suggested in another thread). The only options are:
a: Siphon (doesn’t work unless you’re actually hitting another assault card, and is damage dependant, meaning if the card is weakened to 1, you only siphon 1 HP back. Also pretty much all siphon cards either suck, or are too slow; depends on luck of the draw to get it early).
b: Wall (with the current massive amount of siege everywhere high HP walls, with high delay usually add very little functionality/synergy to your deck, crippling it; depends on luck of the draw to get it early)
c: refresh (only two commanders with it, both die easily to TI/drone spam regardless – thanks for nerfing Moya, devs…)
9) TI decks work very effectively both as defense and as offense decks, whereas traditionally previous fear decks required specific orders of playing your cards to be efficient.


1) so ftp people have a chance now? NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

2) Deck sucks without Enrichment Vail, point invalid

3) Very Early you say? like level 20-30?

4) So is Syco, Sabre, GS, Monarch, Split Jaw…

5) You can do that with virtually any deck

6) OH NOES! THE FREE TO PLAYS HAVE A CHANCE NAOW! HOARD THE WBS!

7) I’d look up the % of cards that are walls, but I’m to lazy :p

8) You sir, have never played with fear.

9) defense: turn one E-Vail! awee… turn 2 RADIANCE! <== I won that game :b

 
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I’d like to point out that the fact that everybody disagreeing for the sake of disagreeing (because they use TI+drones) should come up with actual evidence that it is not an overpowered combo, rather than just “-1” and pyramid quoting each other. It doesn’t really help your credibility much and only strengthens the point that so many are completely attached to their OP decks and can’t stand the thought of actually having to make a deck that doesn’t only lose to pure counters against it (which lose to almost everything else).
Also worth noting that quoting somebody disagreeing but actually admitting that almost all my points are correct is a very poor way of persuasion.

 
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I have realized that flare of courage allows me to beat TI and drone decks quite easily. In fact, I welcome the hornets to flank and to go pluck the pollen off of my flares.

The idea of Drone as unique is an interesting one.

 
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Originally posted by OMGWTFFFS:

1-Free to play people have been able to remain competitive ever since the advent of shards.
2-I’ve seen many variants of it without enrichment vial, and still very effective.
3-Yes level 20-30, even if that were an accurate figure you haven’t pulled out of who knows where, is early considering it is an effective deck all the way throughout the end-game.
4-Tyrelus, elemental and beholder are all legendary/unique and far, far inferior to it. Also compare it to GS and concussive guard, they should clearly be either unique or have a different set of skills with those stats.
5-No, you can’t.
6-Missed the point completely. Also fear has been traditionally WB-only for one simple reason: it allows you to bypass almost all the cards in the game, save for wall structures. That makes it a powerful enough skill that it should only be given to situational cards, or made WB exclusive. Devs chose the WB exclusive way (not that I think it was the best choice, either). But it was necessary. The consequences of making it no longer WB exclusive are clear (eventhough it hasn’t been WB exclusive ever since Phobos packs were available for tokens, but at least it was still under control like that).
7-I’m not surprised.
8-Again pulling stuff out of your ass.
9-Like I said, vial isn’t mandatory for TI to work, there are many other valid strategies, like other sources of augment, and spamming. TI decks aren’t “win by turn 5 or you’re toast”, FYI (which just goes to show how TI+drones are powerful, since they synergize so well with so many cards).

1) yes that is true, on their luck of the god packs they have been
2) really? would you like to tell me? pls I have 0 vail :c
3) yeah I did pull that number out of my ass thankyou. (again to lazy to go check) I do agree with you on this only takes a month or 2 to get full TIs
4) there are a lot of spammable cards better then Gladus, nerf them!
5) Your right. I was looking at that wrong :p
6) Fear has been WB only, excluding anyone who wanted to play fear without putting in cash. Now the free to play also get to enjoy this. What is the bad part about this?
8) lol, I have a screen shot of my 300+ games in a standard tournament with fear. I know how fear loses.
9) That doesn’t change the fact that most TI decks have action cards in them, and 90% of the time a turn 1 Action card on defense is a win for you!

 
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How can a deck be overpowered if it is easily beaten? OP’s definition of OP is terrible.

 
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Originally posted by Superchar1998:
Originally posted by OMGWTFFFS:

1-Free to play people have been able to remain competitive ever since the advent of shards.
2-I’ve seen many variants of it without enrichment vial, and still very effective.
3-Yes level 20-30, even if that were an accurate figure you haven’t pulled out of who knows where, is early considering it is an effective deck all the way throughout the end-game.
4-Tyrelus, elemental and beholder are all legendary/unique and far, far inferior to it. Also compare it to GS and concussive guard, they should clearly be either unique or have a different set of skills with those stats.
5-No, you can’t.
6-Missed the point completely. Also fear has been traditionally WB-only for one simple reason: it allows you to bypass almost all the cards in the game, save for wall structures. That makes it a powerful enough skill that it should only be given to situational cards, or made WB exclusive. Devs chose the WB exclusive way (not that I think it was the best choice, either). But it was necessary. The consequences of making it no longer WB exclusive are clear (eventhough it hasn’t been WB exclusive ever since Phobos packs were available for tokens, but at least it was still under control like that).
7-I’m not surprised.
8-Again pulling stuff out of your ass.
9-Like I said, vial isn’t mandatory for TI to work, there are many other valid strategies, like other sources of augment, and spamming. TI decks aren’t “win by turn 5 or you’re toast”, FYI (which just goes to show how TI+drones are powerful, since they synergize so well with so many cards).

1) yes that is true, on their luck of the god packs they have been
2) really? would you like to tell me? pls I have 0 vail :c
3) yeah I did pull that number out of my ass thankyou. (agai to lazy to go check) I do agree with you on this only takes a month or 2 to get full TIs
4) there are a lot of spammable cards better then Gladus, nerf them!
5) Your right. I was looking at that wrong :p
6) Fear has been WB only, excluding anyone who wanted to play fear without putting in cash. Now the free to play also get to enjoy this. What is the bad part about this?
8) lol, I have a screen shot of my 300+ games in a standard tournament with fear. I know how fear loses.
9) That doesn’t change the fact that most TI decks have action cards in them, and 90% of the time a turn 1 Action card on defense is a win for you!

2) I’d rather not, because I don’t really want to encourage more people to use these decks by posting good builds of it in the forum. Feel free to attack Warlike Brother in a war, there are several TI defense decks there that work very nicely.
4) Obvious red herring. The topic is fear cards. TI are clearly vastly superior to all other fear alternatives, including WB only and legendaries, especially with drones to aid them.
6) There is no bad part about it in itself, but it’s the conjunction with all other factors in the opening post that make it bad. Concussive guard is available to free players, as well, is a very solid fear card, and doesn’t require nerfing because it doesn’t share all the factors listed in the opening post.
8) Then, by all means, enlighten us on what a good TI/drones counter deck looks like, which also works consistently against other meta decks.
9) Again, feel free to take a look at WB’s TI defense decks, many of them have not a single action card in them, and still work splendidly.

Originally posted by p4n1q:

How can a deck be overpowered if it is easily beaten? OP’s definition of OP is terrible.

Because making a deck to beat TI is easy, but such a deck loses to everything else. Should I maybe use smaller words, or do you need a drawing, perhaps?

 
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I’ve been engaged in wars against many of the top 10 factions these few days. Eg: MoM, BW, Dragons, WM, Italians, TASW.

i can tell u from experience that TI drones WILL NOT get you even 40% on surge and even less on def against top factions. (i have TI, drones, HoC, Augur, DfA and vial)
So, if you are losing badly to TI drones, it just means you/your faction is not adequately prepared to face the fear meta, which everyone has adapted to a week after TI+ and drone+ were released. i suggest u quit wasting your time petitioning (whinning) and live with it.

Sincerely,
Warmaster of X-Com

 
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So in a game of Rock, Paper, Scissors, all three choices are overpowered? Every possible thing you can do is overpowered? Again, terrible definition.

 
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Originally posted by p4n1q:

So in a game of Rock, Paper, Scissors, all three choices are overpowered? Every possible thing you can do is overpowered? Again, terrible definition.

You’re just playing dumb on purpose. It’s not working very well and making yourself look like an ass… just saying.

 
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Originally posted by p4n1q:

So in a game of Rock, Paper, Scissors, all three choices are overpowered? Every possible thing you can do is overpowered? Again, terrible definition.

……………..

 
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You can’t nerf anything in free-to-play game, this is only possible in abo-games.

 
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Originally posted by raziella:

You can’t nerf anything in free-to-play game, this is only possible in abo-games.

Do you make the rules? Just wondering, cause I’d like to know where you were when released cards have been nerfed in the past already…