Forums Tyrant

[Petition] Nerf TI/Drones page 3

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Well, over 50 posts in, still no sign of a deck that consistently works against TI and other meta decks. Let's analyze some of the alleged anti-TI cards, and why they either fail against TI, aren't reliable, or make you fail against everything else:

Heracles
!http://tyrant.40in.net/i/c/518.jpg!
* Legendary, meaning you can't use more than one and thus have to be lucky to draw it early.
* No anti-air/flying means getting trolled by Drones flying.
* Burst damage means if not rallied it can have trouble out-damaging the drone's heals on TIs, at least quickly enough for it to matter.
* An enemy Heart of Corruption played in it's swipe range means you're going to lose, almost certainly.
* Very poor card against other meta armored cards.


Sabre
!http://tyrant.40in.net/i/c/63.jpg!
* No anti-air/flying means getting trolled by Drones flying.
* Opponents tend to play HoC in front of it, vastly reducing it's usefulness.
* Extremely bad card to be used against Grim Specters due to evade and wallstalls due to chaos.
* Can get killed before activation by an early Hornet Drones drop.


Pyro Rig
!http://tyrant.40in.net/i/c/4051.jpg!
* Very slow, means it often doesn't even get to activate before you're dead, even when using Moya as commander.
* Jam is not reliable.
* No anti-air/flying means getting trolled by Drones flying. This is lessened by the possiblity of jamming all, however.


Hazzarous Bane
!http://tyrant.40in.net/kg/card.php?id=4086!
* Legendary, meaning you can't use more than one and thus have to be lucky to draw it early.
* No anti-air/flying means getting trolled by Drones flying.
* An enemy Heart of Corruption played in it's swipe range means you're going to lose, almost certainly.
* Very hard to obtain.
* Very poor card against other meta armored cards.


Cadmian
!http://tyrant.40in.net/i/c/4056.jpg!
* Legion means it only has decent attack when played in a mono or almost mono imperial deck. And even with the legion boost, doesn't make it very useful other than for the summon.
* No anti-air/flying means getting trolled by Drones flying.
* Opponents tend to play HoC in front of it, vastly reducing it's usefulness.
* HoC summons usually kill it and crush the summoned wall.
* Must have several in your deck for it to make a difference. This makes your deck extremely weak against other meta decks, such as wallstalls.
* Very hard to obtain several copies.
* Very poor card against other meta armored cards.


Hellion+
!http://tyrant.40in.net/i/c/945.jpg!
* Jam is unreliable.
* Flurry is unreliable.
* Very prone to being turned useless by weaken, even weaken 1.
* Opponents tend to play Heart of Corruption in front of it. Flurrying it means certain death, unless you're lucky enough to jam HoC.
* Very poor card against other meta armored cards.


Hope Mason
!http://tyrant.40in.net/i/c/761.jpg!
* Flurry is unreliable.
* No anti-air/flying means getting trolled by Drones flying.
* Opponents tend to play Heart of Corruption in front of it. Flurrying it means a lot of trouble.
* Unique so must rely on luck to draw it early enough to matter.


Monarch
!http://tyrant.40in.net/i/c/716.jpg!
* Rally is unreliable, meaning if unlucky you can have trouble out-damaging a Drones' heals on a TI.
* Summoned Honor Guard is a great card to play a HoC in front of.
* No anti-air/flying means getting trolled by Drones flying.


Gore Crab
!http://tyrant.40in.net/i/c/4027.jpg!
* Very slow, means it often doesn't even get to activate before you're dead.
* If played in front of TI, won't berserk at all and probably never outdamage drone heals on TI.
* No anti-air/flying means getting trolled by Drones flying.
* Prone to being turned useless by weaken, especially if it hasn't berserked at all, since with only 1 attack it will only siphon 1 HP rather than 4.


Marrow Aileron
!http://tyrant.40in.net/i/c/829.jpg!
* Prone to being turned useless by weaken.
* Legendary, meaning you can't use more than one and thus have to be lucky to draw it early.
* An enemy Heart of Corruption played in it's swipe range means trouble.
* Very poor card against other meta armored cards.


Obsidian
!http://tyrant.40in.net/i/c/102.jpg!
* Unique so must rely on luck to draw it early enough to matter.
* Extremely low damage, means you have to rely on strike luck to deal damage, which will most likely be healed by drones afterwards, anyway.
* Extremely low damage and relying on strike means it's the perfect card to place HoC in front of, especially since HoC's rally all will come after the weaken all.
* Very poor card against other meta armored cards.
* Extremely bad card to be chaosed, making it somewhat cripple your decks against wallstalls, lightning striders, Lord Halcyon and other chaos sources.


Redeemer
!http://tyrant.40in.net/i/c/296.jpg!
* Immobilize is unreliable.
* Very poor card against other meta armored cards.
* An enemy Heart of Corruption played in it's swipe range means trouble.
* If weakened loses a lot of usefulness, also with only 1 attack it will only siphon 1 HP per target rather than 2.
* No anti-air/flying means getting trolled by Drones flying.
* Low damage means if not rallied it can have trouble out-damaging the drone's heals on TIs, at least quickly enough for it to matter.
* Mostly useless against non-fear decks.


Venomous Raptor+
!http://tyrant.40in.net/i/c/992.jpg!
* Flurry is unreliable.
* Very poor card against other meta armored cards.
* Flurrying an enemy Heart of Corruption means trouble.
* No anti-air/flying means getting trolled by Drones flying.
* Unique so must rely on luck to draw it early enough to matter.


Pulverizer
!http://tyrant.40in.net/i/c/615.jpg!
* No anti-air/flying means getting trolled by Drones flying.
* Mostly useless against non-fear decks.


Pox Strictor
!http://tyrant.40in.net/i/c/616.jpg!
* No anti-air/flying means getting trolled by Drones flying.
* Mostly useless against non-fear decks.
* Jam is unreliable


Purge Cadet
!http://tyrant.40in.net/i/c/4022.jpg!
* Enfeeble is unreliable
* Flurry is unreliable
* No anti-air/flying means getting trolled by Drones flying.
* Very poor card against other meta armored cards.
* Flurrying an enemy Heart of Corruption means trouble.
* If weakened loses a lot of it's usefulness and makes it even worse against HoC.


Damascus Blade
!http://tyrant.40in.net/i/c/858.jpg!
* Immobilize is unreliable.
* Jam is unreliable.
* No anti-air/flying means getting trolled by Drones flying.
* Very poor card against other meta armored cards.
* Legendary so must rely on luck to draw it early enough to matter.
* May have trouble outdamaging drone heals.


Odin+
!http://tyrant.40in.net/i/c/957.jpg!
* Legendary so must rely on luck to draw it early enough to matter.
* Fragile HP, means it can die before even activating to early drones.
* No anti-air/flying means getting trolled by Drones flying.
* Dies easily to HoC summons.
* Dies very easily to other meta decks quick cards.


Fortifier
!http://tyrant.40in.net/i/c/259.jpg!
* Unique so must rely on luck to draw it early enough to matter.
* No anti-air/flying means getting trolled by Drones flying.
* Flurry is unreliable.
* Opponents tend to play Heart of Corruption in front of it. Flurrying it means certain death.


------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Thats about all I can think off the top of my head, I'm sure there's plenty more, but notice how there isn't a single one that is good against all of TI, drones and HoC. And I'm sure even if there is one I'm missing, it'll suck against all other decks types, probably even other fear decks, like GS.

*DISCLAIMER:* I left most walls out of it on purpose, because I already covered that walls are usually there just to buy some time (the damage from poison and counter walls is always easily taken care of by the hornet drones, anyway), other than Flare of Courage and I listed all those cards, except Redeemer and Gore Crab, assuming you had Moya as commander.

Edit: dunno why pics aren't working, I'm fairly sure I set the formatting right.
 
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darkbloods post is a start

http://www.kongregate.com/forums/65-tyrant/topics/330018-what-is-the-meta-now?page=1

your welcome

p.s. there are many other ones i dont think people are willing to share so openly

 
Flag Post
Originally posted by OMGWTFFFS:
Well, 40 posts in, still no sign of a deck that consistently works against TI and other meta decks.

Let’s analyze some of the alleged anti-TI cards, and why they either fail against TI, aren’t reliable, or make you fail against everything else:

Sorry, I am not going to give away a deck that consistently beats every def deck type (atleast not to people not in my faction). And you are wrong in analyzing so called anti TI cards separately. If there was one card that completely shuts down an entire deck then that card would be op no? There are pretty good combinations to use on def that wins easily against TI’s and offers resistance to other types too.

 
Flag Post
Originally posted by OMGWTFFFS:

Here’s some facts about TI+Drones (keep in mind that it is all these facts combined that make it overpowered):

1) Gold obtainable. Relatively cheap.
2) Can be bought directly from the store, doesn’t depend on being lucky opening packs.
3) Are both unlockable very early in the game.
4) Both are spammable.
5) A very effective deck can be run with very few cards in it, minimizing luck of the draw.
6) Is generally far, far superior and easier to build than all other fear alternatives (Concussive Guard, Grim Specter, Sycophant, Phantasm, Elemental, Tyrelus, Beholder).
7) Fear Cards allow you to completely bypass 99% of the cards in the game.
8) There is no direct skill that counters fear (for example, blocks it from going through your assault, as Crimsoneye has suggested in another thread). The only options are:
a: Siphon (doesn’t work unless you’re actually hitting another assault card, and is damage dependant, meaning if the card is weakened to 1, you only siphon 1 HP back. Also pretty much all siphon cards either suck, or are too slow; depends on luck of the draw to get it early).
b: Wall (with the current massive amount of siege everywhere high HP walls, with high delay usually add very little functionality/synergy to your deck, crippling it; depends on luck of the draw to get it early)
c: refresh (only two commanders with it, both die easily to TI/drone spam regardless – thanks for nerfing Moya, devs…)
9) TI decks work very effectively both as defense and as offense decks, whereas traditionally previous fear decks required specific orders of playing your cards to be efficient.



With all that in mind I’d like you to think about how this affects the game as a whole:
Is it really such a great idea to allow early players such powerful decks?
Doesn’t it hurt the devs income to have such an extremely powerful free deck?
Isn’t it bad that two cards can make so many hundreds of other cards completely unusable, especially when devs are making an effort to bring older cards back into play?


I think something must be done about these two cards.
At least one of the following:



  • Make upgraded TI unique (Heck, cyclops was made unique, is a LOT harder to get than TI and it is unable to win matches by turn 5, like TI).

  • Make upgraded Hornet Drones unique.

  • Replace rally all imp 1 from upgraded TI with Legion 1.

  • Make a new skill for assault cards that prevents a Fear card’s attack to go through it.
  • Feel free to post your own suggestions.

    +1 if you agree.

Just no. Fear is a part of a game, and you will have do deal with it. Heck, Moya is out, and they are releasing lots of anti-fear cards.

-1 to your idea.

 
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If these TI decks are so OP (they aren’t), why is anyone ever playing any deck that isn’t TI?

Oh, right, because they lose too much.

 
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^Do you really need someone to answer this? It’s basic game theory; if TI’s become too popular people will run absurd counter decks just to beat them. That’s already happening (3 Flare of Courage anyone?). But these decks which can beat TI’s lose effectiveness against everything else.

 
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From your post, you make it seem like HoC is the card that’s OP haha, the drawback to any card being they can drop HoC across from it.

I agree with Muki, no single card would be able to do it of course. And if I had a good counter for all decks in the meta… why would I be sharing it here? But rest assured that decks can beat TI consistently and still do well against many of the other decks in the meta. TI is very strong, but not so bad that they should be nerfed.

 
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i would probably say if anything HoC is the OP card. I feel like the vast majority of players use HoC in both defense and offense.

I feel like HoC has a enormous effect on the meta

 
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Originally posted by pacachomp:

^Do you really need someone to answer this? It’s basic game theory; if TI’s become too popular people will run absurd counter decks just to beat them. That’s already happening (3 Flare of Courage anyone?). But these decks which can beat TI’s lose effectiveness against everything else.

What is “everything else?” I thought everyone was running OP TI decks.

 
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When I make a valid point: OMG ignores it lmao

 
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Originally posted by artdz:

i would probably say if anything HoC is the OP card. I feel like the vast majority of players use HoC in both defense and offense.

I feel like HoC has a enormous effect on the meta

this

I could use walless rainbow deck to kill HOCless TI deck, but damn pierce and crush can be too much for even Monarch or Odin.

 
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Originally posted by OMGWTFFFS:
Originally posted by oienoien:

-1
Herc, Sabre, Death from Above, and various blitz cards already take care of TI easily enough. The new Stun walls should be effective too. I hope you aren’t using RSR, because I haven’t encountered any good decks in Standards that decisively lose to TIs.

Show me a deck with heracles and sabre that doesn’t lose to everything else. And remember that the deck has to be good enough to consistently counter both TIs and most other meta decks, i.e. not just chucking heracles and sabre in an otherwise pure anti-wallstall, for example, and saying it is a good counter for both.

My deck with 2 sabres inside does it consistently. So this is definitely not a valid point. But it’s true that herc is outdated and is not effective vs flyers anyway.

 
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It is all about your ability to create decent counter deck, TI’s is not OP…ask the people around especially in top faction, I totally agree with Muki, coz their faction is running 50% TI in the past few days..and they know it is beat-able

 
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lol on this thread. Sabre + Rapier can kill TI* and Hornet Drone easily and this is just 2 card, you still have 8 slot for other card. But Sabre + Rapier can’t kill Grim Specter Lvl2.

Hey OMGWTFFFS, if you find TI* so good, why don’t you use it. Can you share us with your deck that can beat all other deck type easily if TI* get nerfed?

 
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The scarier deck by far is gs and flare of courage. That combo wants to be flanked and unless you are lucky removing all gs off the board is a very hard thing to do. The fact that it completely counters ti fear is a bonus. The odd wallstall gives it an issue same with atlas* odin* rainbows if no evades proc but that’s a rarity.

 
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Originally posted by BeerBaron:

The scarier deck by far is gs and flare of courage. That combo wants to be flanked and unless you are lucky removing all gs off the board is a very hard thing to do. The fact that it completely counters ti fear is a bonus. The odd wallstall gives it an issue same with atlas* odin* rainbows if no evades proc but that’s a rarity.

With dracorex, that deck is tough cookie. Not a single pure 6 damage 2 wait card, Odin himself will cry if strike gets invaded, reason to include upgraded slayer in deck though.

 
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Is this thread serious or is it just a troll ?

OK to sum up TI :

- TI sucks in PvP. I know I’ve tried. People have learnt how to deal with it for weeks now. Anyone saying the contrary has probably never played standard. Still a possible choice for someone who would want to make top25%, maybe top 10%, (I’d like to hear if anyone has been able to top1% a standard tourney with TI recently) but that’s all. Alternatively, it can also be used as a counter deck if there are few people playing on a given tourney and you know their decks.

- TI is a decent surge. Can work relatively well on some defenses, but generally not the best. Is it bad to give new/free players something to surge with ?

- TI can be a decent defense. My TI defense has been doing pretty bad recently though :(, and here again there are better options, but I guess a good faction defense should always have, amongst other things, a few TI decks in it. Same question, is it a bad thing if new/free players can get easy access to a working defense build ?

If anything deserves the ‘most annoying card’ title, I think it should be GS rather than TI, maybe because I can play TI and not GS, but also because I think GS decks are the ones that bring the least interaction between players and the outcome of a game pretty much only depends on if evade procs or not. Still I don’t really see any reason to nerf GS, or any card in current meta.

 
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Originally posted by maboroshi83:
Originally posted by artdz:

i would probably say if anything HoC is the OP card. I feel like the vast majority of players use HoC in both defense and offense.

I feel like HoC has a enormous effect on the meta

this

I could use walless rainbow deck to kill HOCless TI deck, but damn pierce and crush can be too much for even Monarch or Odin.

I agree with this though I’ve played no standards lately. It’s just true HoC seems to be best legendary for just about every deck. The biggest threats in TI* decks (at least to me) are HoC and Hornet drones* fly-troll as they both cause equal amount of losses.

Anyway I vote Drones* for “the most annoying card” title as devs have to fix that 50% flying for me…Missing it 8/10 times for weeks now…

 
Flag Post
Originally posted by OMGWTFFFS:
Well, over 50 posts in, still no sign of a deck that consistently works against TI and other meta decks.

Let’s analyze some of the alleged anti-TI cards, and why they either fail against TI, aren’t reliable, or make you fail against everything else:



Marrow Aileron
!http://tyrant.40in.net/i/c/829.jpg!
* Prone to being turned useless by weaken.
* Legendary, meaning you can’t use more than one and thus have to be lucky to draw it early.
* An enemy Heart of Corruption played in it’s swipe range means trouble.
* Very poor card against other meta armored cards.

Actually, the main problem is activation time; aileron swipe will wipe the little feastors and their buddies off the board.

 
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TIs and Hornets are very inconsistent in wars. This thread is a joke, Heracles had it’s time as a card useful in the meta, so go find another relevant enough for us to actually take you seriously. How about Orworld, since you believe shards can make F2P players useful in PVP, or does Orworld just happen to not count? :P And just an FYI, since apparently it’s OP because it’s easy to obtain, TI/Hornet decks beat TI/Hornet decks if you are actually capable of building a deck.

 
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less QQ moar PEW PEW

 
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I feel stupid for beating Hornet Drones decks now.

 
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-1
I beat drones/TI decks with no problems. Grims* are op, not TI/drones. I’m using 3 surge decks – HoC, Odin and Conclussive, and these decks have about 70-95% winrate (depends on faction). Pm me if u can’t build valid surge deck.

 
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Why nerf TI? I remembered there were many “Nerf Ogres” threads here..
Ogres were one of the top decks in faction wars , TIs are only decent… Why do someone like nerfing a free card so much?