Forums Tyrant

[To the Devs] Please be smart about the "buffing"

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I am prefacing this by saying that I only have limited information to source what I am about to say, I and see a three possible explanations (with a couple of more player generated options thrown in). I like one, loathe another, and think the third is a good compromise. Of course, the player generated options are AWESOME!

Thanks to some information from Shadowhopeful (see my next post), it looks like the cost to upgrade is going to be 10 conquest tokens. I feel like this doesn’t change much, as there is still an opportunity to have the devolopers change things BEFORE it is implemented.

Coming from http://dev.tyrantonline.com/assets/cards.xml. As is the case with all information coming from the dev server (dev.tyrantonline.com), this information could be changed at any moment.

<unit>
<id>106</id>
<name>Tremor Wyrm</name>
<picture>wyrmunit.jpg</picture>
<attack>3</attack>
<health>2</health>
<cost>4</cost>
<unique>1</unique>
<upgraded_card>830</upgraded_card>
<rarity>3</rarity>
<gold_cost>10000</gold_cost>
<skill id="armored" x="2"/>
<skill id="strike" x="2" all="1"/>
<type>4</type>
<set>1</set>
</unit>
<unit>
<id>830</id>
<name>Tremor Wyrm</name>
<picture>wyrmunit.jpg</picture>
<attack>3</attack>
<health>7</health>
<cost>4</cost>
<unique>1</unique>
<base_card>106</base_card>
<rarity>3</rarity>
<gold_cost>10000</gold_cost>
<skill id="armored" x="2"/>
<skill id="strike" x="2" all="1"/>
<type>4</type>
<set>5002</set>
</unit>

This makes it very clear that there is going to be an “upgrade” cost (currently looks like it is going to be 10 conquest tokens per upgrade). I am unable to find an xml file that explains this upgrade cost… Which leaves me to speculating.


Scenario 1

(looking unlikely)
The cards are upgrade-able with gold. This is good as there is currently not much use for gold in the game and it gives new players a chance to use these buffs much sooner. I am not opposed to having new players become competitive sooner. It’s a good thing for the community.

Scenario 2

(looks like its going to be 10 conquest token)
The cards are upgrade-able with components. This is bad. It further diminishes new players’ ability to be competitive against established players. If it’s with old components or newly introduced ones, it does not matter as new players will face an even larger uphill battle to be competitive again.

% of non-level protected tiles controlled by top 20: 98%

This option, if taken, well lead to a real separation of competition between those with 31+ tiles, those with tiles, and those with non. It’s an awful option.

Scenario 3

A combination of the 2 above. This is the best option available for both the vets and new players. Vets can either focus on grinding the (presumed) new components or use their old components (depends on how it’s implemented). AND new players can still make these cards though it will be more difficult for them (I, personally, think it is acceptable).




One of the great things about this game is the ability to share with others and get feedback on cases they might come up with. The last 2 scenarios are part of that feedback.

Scenario 4

<item>
<id>351</id>
<name>Conquest Token</name>
<picture>conquesttoken1.png</picture>
<!--
<gold_cost>2500</gold_cost> <chip_cost>1</chip_cost> Leaving here in comments til we decide if these are buyable
-->
</item>

See that commented out part… DO THAT! This is really a combination of all worlds. The cards are upgradable via crafting, but you can also spend gold to get some of these crafting items. To me, based on the XML data, the price point is a bit high (25k/card), but I can’t really complain about this option.

Scenario 5

Originally posted by rhuris:

I haven’t read the topic. but devs can make the new cards rewards for achievements. ex: “use tiamat in 100 successfull battles”

I see this as a great option as well. If someone is really dedicated to getting these upgrdaes, they can just grind mission 1 over and over again, (and nearly any 3 card deck will win).


CONCLUSION


Urge the devs to implement option 1, 3, 4, or 5 (basically anything but what their XML currently represents). Using just components is unfair to those far removed from the top 25-50 in FACTION play, and will probably require players to get involved in tournies again. The last time this happened, there was a huge exodus of top level talent.

 
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Scenario 4

<item>
<id>351</id>
<name>Conquest Token</name>
<picture>conquesttoken1.png</picture>
<!--
<gold_cost>2500</gold_cost> <chip_cost>1</chip_cost> Leaving here in comments til we decide if these are buyable
-->
</item>

See that commented out part… DO THAT!

Scenario 5

Originally posted by rhuris:

I haven’t read the topic. but devs can make the new cards rewards for achievements. ex: “use tiamat in 100 successfull battles”



Originally posted by Shadowhopeful:

http://dev.tyrantonline.com/assets/items.xml


Right at the bottom, asking for 10 Conquest Tokens each.


(Which sucks, because that’s not buffing, it’s upgrading.)



A note about conquest distribution of tiles.

Originally posted by ladolcevita:

Some conquest numbers:


Total tiles controlled by the top 10: 294
Total tiles controlled by the top 15: 411
Total tiles controlled by the top 20: 475


Total number of tiles: 25×25 = 625


Total number of level protected tiles: 140 (quoted from Raistlin)


% of tiles controlled by top 10: 47%
% of tiles controlled by top 15: 66%


% of non-level protected tiles controlled by top 10: 61%
% of non-level protected tiles controlled by top 15: 85%
% of non-level protected tiles controlled by top 20: 98%


Total tiles open/free for factions not in the top 15 and > lvl 10: 10 (you are the 2% :D)



So … this is a brilliant strategy by synapticon to get players in either the top 10-20 factions or in the strongest ones below lvl 11. A side effect will be that waiting lists will be immensely long (unless the demise of Tyrant is as forecasted).

 
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Why not just buff the cards. But if that can’t happen, I’d go with option 1.

 
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Originally posted by inorix:

Why not just buff the cards. But if that can’t happen, I’d go with option 1.

“Just” buffing the cards could mess with some of the early missions. Like facing a buffed Draconian Queen… New players need a contingency option for it, though I agree “just buffing” is preferable to this crafting nonsense.

 
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Thank you once again catepillar for the info. EDIT: I started Tyrant over and I can see how difficult it is for new players. Almost every aspect of the game is unobtainable and buffing older cards, if not done with newer players in mind, is just going to set them apart even further not helping the game in the long term. I understand helping end gamers with all the recent additions but for the sake of new blood I hope you’ll keep the new players in mind when you release this buffing set.

 
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Thanks, this is a well-thought-out analysis. Personally, I’d go with Option 3 just because I have heaps of old unused components, but I guess newer players might find Option 1 preferable.

I support this.

 
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I’d go with option 1.

 
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http://dev.tyrantonline.com/assets/items.xml

Right at the bottom, asking for 10 Conquest Tokens each.

(Which sucks, because that’s not buffing, it’s upgrading.)

Originally posted by synapticon:

1) Buffing a few Golden Oldies
We were thinking about buffing several of the old favorite cards to be competitive in the current meta


No moar liez pl0x

 
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I agree, please be careful with the card buffing. Myself i don’t like the idea at all. But since most players seem to, i got nothing to say other then that. :D

 
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Originally posted by Shadowhopeful:

http://dev.tyrantonline.com/assets/items.xml

Right at the bottom, asking for 10 Conquest Tokens each.

Thanks, I will add this to the OP.

 
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Originally posted by catepillar:
Originally posted by Shadowhopeful:

http://dev.tyrantonline.com/assets/items.xml

Right at the bottom, asking for 10 Conquest Tokens each.

Thanks, I will add this to the OP.

Just noticed though, that the stuff there is probably only for testing. Keep an eye out for further changes.

 
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Upgraded card should have different art/name/both to be distinguished easier.
Having 2 different versions of card will cause a lot of mess.

 
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Originally posted by Shadowhopeful:
Originally posted by catepillar:
Originally posted by Shadowhopeful:

Just noticed though, that the stuff there is probably only for testing. Keep an eye out for further changes.

As is the case with all information coming from the dev servers.

 
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Me and my noobness thought that these buffs meant that the cards would simply be changed. Now I figure they have to be upgraded. I’m a sad panda.

 
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Originally posted by Macafeu:

Me and my noobness thought that these buffs meant that the cards would simply be changed. Now I figure they have to be upgraded. I’m a sad panda.

upgrading them is much better imo, but i hate grinding for components…

hopefully we can upgrade with gold, wb or combining old useless cars or many copies of the same one…
 
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Originally posted by Moonfrost:

Upgraded card should have different art/name/both to be distinguished easier.
Having 2 different versions of card will cause a lot of mess.

 
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Originally posted by Shadowhopeful:
Originally posted by Moonfrost:

Upgraded card should have different art/name/both to be distinguished easier.
Having 2 different versions of card will cause a lot of mess.

I like alpha and omega. (Their stats).

 
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i don’t understand how the devs could even consider using anything but gold for buffs. unless it’s something stupid easy to get like generators, it’s just going to enrage everyone. new players, old players, free players, even wbers since they can’t just buy components.

 
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Generators 4 cards!

 
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Originally posted by Sakubo:

i don’t understand how the devs could even consider using anything but gold for buffs. unless it’s something stupid easy to get like generators, it’s just going to enrage everyone. new players, old players, free players, even wbers since they can’t just buy components.

 
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Originally posted by catepillar:
Originally posted by Shadowhopeful:
Originally posted by Moonfrost:

Upgraded card should have different art/name/both to be distinguished easier.
Having 2 different versions of card will cause a lot of mess.

I like alpha and omega. (Their stats).

card art is incredible, butterfly.

I’d strictly prefer scenario 1. Any scenario tainting involving elements of scenario 2 will be devastating for crappy factions such as prex.

 
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Originally posted by Eonian:
Originally posted by Sakubo:

i don’t understand how the devs could even consider using anything but gold for buffs. unless it’s something stupid easy to get like generators, it’s just going to enrage everyone. new players, old players, free players, even wbers since they can’t just buy components.

nice pic.

-jir
 
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Originally posted by Shadowhopeful:

http://dev.tyrantonline.com/assets/items.xml

Right at the bottom, asking for 10 Conquest Tokens each.

(Which sucks, because that’s not buffing, it’s upgrading.)

Originally posted by synapticon:

1) Buffing a few Golden Oldies
We were thinking about buffing several of the old favorite cards to be competitive in the current meta


No moar liez pl0x

Emphasis on “thinking”. Guess he changed his mind. By technicality, Synapticon did not lie.
 
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Originally posted by Eonian:
Originally posted by Sakubo:

i don’t understand how the devs could even consider using anything but gold for buffs. unless it’s something stupid easy to get like generators, it’s just going to enrage everyone. new players, old players, free players, even wbers since they can’t just buy components.

yeah god forbid we give feedback right. i seriously hate the jerkass community on all kong forums.

 
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Originally posted by catepillar:
Originally posted by inorix:

Why not just buff the cards. But if that can’t happen, I’d go with option 1.

“Just” buffing the cards could mess with some of the early missions. Like facing a buffed Draconian Queen… New players need a contingency option for it, though I agree “just buffing” is preferable to this crafting nonsense.

Players will not face the buffed Draco during mission 20++ if Dev choose so. Reason for that is because Dev have already created separated version of those cards. (with two different IDs, Dev can choose either card to field for mission since the pre/post buff draco queen is not a single entity any more.)

So right now the only thing is whether Dev would like to attach a cost to those buff cards. If the cost is 0, then it will be “just buff the cards” which just requires players to go press the upgrade button and convert the card.