1. It gives you two random people to pick. At the first mission, there are no scumtells or anything, so. 2. There… really isn’t? I mean, you could hit a scum, sure, but eh. 3. Honestly? I don’t see a use in it. Maybe passing to the next player if the timer for the mission is about to expire?

> *Originally posted by **[Bluji](/forums/36/topics/370233?page=2#posts-7601360):*** > > **1)** What pros there are in RNGing the first mission? > > **2)** What cons there are in RNGing the first mission? > > **3)** What use do you find for the No Confidence power card? 1) It’s probably the best option we have right now, well, that or we can spend 2 days asking questions and stuff. 2) There’s always the slight chance that a scum might get RNG’d, then send a pass on M1, get on then next 1-2 missions and cause a lot of confusion. 3) I really don’t have an idea, I guess you’d use it if a suspected scum was on deck, to see what they propose. Their proposal could be analyzed. This is my first resistance with power cards.

1: It’s the only real option we have….. 2: We could get fooled by scum sending a pass and getting on more missions, but it’s pretty much our only option. 3: If the current leader is a confirmed scum we can skip them maybe? It could also be done so that when a proposal would be rejected, we can just pass instead.

> *Originally posted by **[Bluji](/forums/36/topics/370233?page=2#posts-7601360):*** > > **1)** What pros there are in RNGing the first mission? > > **2)** What cons there are in RNGing the first mission? > > **3)** What use do you find for the No Confidence power card? 1 and 2: There is no pros or cons because **things must work this way.** In order for you to not appear as scum, you must RNG (or at least, claim that you RNG) your mission mates. Because it is assumed that we don’t have any information, every choice you make must be random. 3: You can stop a potential scum from proposing. If you are scum, you can also stop people proposing something against scum. Its main use in Kong, I guess, will be to circumvent inactives. I think, you can also use it to force more people into voicing their opinions (Note that the order of proposal is interrupted by the card.)

> *Originally posted by **[Bluji](/forums/36/topics/370233?page=2#posts-7601360):*** > > **1)** What pros there are in RNGing the first mission? > > **2)** What cons there are in RNGing the first mission? > > **3)** What use do you find for the No Confidence power card? > > **4)** Do you like waffles? **1.** Well there’s nothing else to do. **2.** We just go off on nothing. **3.** if everyone thinks you are spy and you just want to get it over with. **4.** Never tried them.

[Bluji] > 1) What pros there are in RNGing the first mission?> 2) What cons there are in RNGing the first mission? RNGing is the norm. Fact is, it’s more than likely we get a spy on the mission, who will (almost always) pass the mission. This is another reason of why I consider 6v4s unbalanced. While RNGing is considered the most sensible thing to do, it’s certainly not, at least not on that large a margin anyway (this goes against what I said earlier, I wished to get to people who blindly agreed with me, because it was more than likely they were scum, considering a previous mention of odds on the first mission by RNGing has been done, and most people are aware of so). What I really think we should do is get some discussion in before proposing the mission. According to the discussion, we should at least manage to filter out some people, and we could then RNG from the remaining. Resistance is not only a game of missiondata, it’s also a game of discussion and behavior. It is a reason that it’s compared to mafia except the simple ‘two faction’ thing. Quite frankly, there are literally no pros of RNGing. That’s the equivalent of RNG voting in mafia and attempting to hit scum. Cons, however, are a number out of which I’ve stated most already. > 3) What use do you find for the No Confidence power card? It’s either when you believe that the current leader is scum, or don’t trust the leader’s judgement, considering it can be used during voting phase, that means the proposal has already been made. Honestly, I wouldn’t put it past quite a number of people (not necessarily in this game) to react on the latter, so I would like to request everyone to be open-minded and not tunnel-vision the way through. I am curious as to why you asked this question, I can’t think of anything except you being paranoid about losing leadership, which is somewhat suspicious. I would like to hear it from you first, though. * * * [yiu113] > 1. It gives you two random people to pick. At the first mission, there are no scumtells or anything, so. There will be no scumtells if there is no discussion and random people are chosen without saying anything. I don’t see how giving two random people is a pro either. * * * [djrockstar] > 2) There’s always the slight chance that a scum might get RNG’d, then send a pass on M1, get on then next 1-2 missions and cause a lot of confusion. Slight chance? I am even more surprised Pulsaris didn’t call you out on this, especially since he was the one to post the statistics of how a scum is likely to get on Mission 1 if it’s RNGed. * * * I’d like to note many people have repeated what was already said above, but in different language (and by that I mainly mean the quoted part). I will not be readdressing these people if I don’t find the need to, since I will have nothing to add to what I’ve previously stated. * * * [BLOODYRAIN10001] > 3: If the current leader is a confirmed scum we can skip them maybe? It could also be done so that when a proposal would be rejected, we can just pass instead. So, are you suggesting any of us should use it to skip valuable discussion time? * * * [Pulsaris] > things must work this way I don’t like the emphasis on this. As I said previously, keep an open mind. You’ve seen how things happened with the norm of there being RNG, resistance has not prevailed until yet. If we keep doing that, it never will.

**@Kadleon:** No, I’m not paranoid about losing captainship — unlike you suggested that I’d RNG the cards, I am going to choose people who know to use these cards wisely. I’d like everyone to answer the questions before choosing the team.

@Kadleon] Well then, we could just skip them **after** the proposal and discussion then ~~.~~

[Bluji] > No, I’m not paranoid about losing captainship — unlike you suggested that I’d RNG the cards, I am going to choose people who know to use these cards wisely. As I previously mentioned, my “suggestion” was more of a lure. That reason would make sense, if your only question about power cards wasn’t the only one that was a threat to your captaincy. I see your reasoning as an excuse, no more. I also notice how you attempted to subtly throw me in the spotlight here, while I had already clarified why I did what I did. While being afraid about losing leadership isn’t necessarily suspicious (again, I said it was suspicious before to amplify your reaction and maybe make you tighten your defense), making excuses about it definitely is. For this, **[FoS: Bluji]** * * * [BLOODYRAIN10001] > Well then, we could just skip them after the proposal and discussion then I don’t get “after the discussion.” There should be no ending point for discussion before the game ends, because there is no “night.” I don’t see why you would even think of us only having limited discussion. The voting phase is still important for Resistance too, since it basically should gather up a person’s thoughts about a certain number of particular people. But I suppose it would be good if used within the last 24 hours of the voting phase, or when majority is about to be reached.

EBWOP: **HOST: Can a power card (esp. No Confidence) be used after a majority in the voting phase has been reached?**

**Captain: Bluji** **On deck: dawn\_to\_dusk** **Current mission: 1** **Team Member 1: Bluji** **Team Member 2: djrockstar** **Team Member 3: yiu113** **I will also be handing the cards out to the following people:** **In the Spotlight:** BLOODYRAIN10001 **No Confidence:** Pulsaris **Overheard Conversation:** Kadleon Unlike most of you have suggested, I have not RNG’d this mission. That is because unlike in all previous Resistance games, we’ve had actual discussion of some sort. The reasons I picked these people: - myself, because I know I’m a Resistance officer. - djrockstar, because he mostly gives me good tells by actually mentioning we could talk and has a fine idea for the usage of the No Confidence card. - yiu113, because the other players gave me some minor feels I didn’t like, were inactive or was Kad. And about the cards… Bloody, I hope you won’t use the card on this mission (because very rarely M1 fails), but if you choose to, make a wise decision. Pulsaris, if you don’t trust me, stop me. It’s as simple as that — I know you can use that card wisely. Kad, I’m giving you a chance to find out my alignment if you choose so. You could, of course, go for djrockstar if you end up deciding I’m resistance. Of course you could be a spy and use the card on me, then telling I’m a spy, but I don’t think you’re a spy, although you’re rather aggressive and didn’t note sebba’s bizarre answer to question 3: > if everyone thinks you are spy and you just want to get it over with.

[Bluji] > because I know I’m a Resistance officer. Is that what you got in your Role PM? > Bloody, I hope you won’t use the card on this mission (because very rarely M1 fails)> I’m giving you a chance to find out my alignment if you choose so. So, you basically tell me to ensure your alignment is town even though M1 is going to almost definitely pass? I don’t get this logic, honestly. > I’m a spy, but I don’t think you’re a spy, although you’re rather aggressive and didn’t note sebba’s bizarre answer to question 3: You give possible reasons for me being a spy, but you don’t provide any reasoning as to why you don’t think I am? Buddying? Also, I would like you to explain how aggression is a scumtell, and not a nulltell. I’d like to note I missed sebba, though his answer doesn’t seem “bizarre” to me, it seems more of misunderstanding. You give semi weak arguments as to why you think I am spy, and then state that you think I am resistance for no good reason. I am not sure whether you’re confused, or just desperately grasping at straws so that I get off your case. > or was Kad. Okay, I think this also needs some mention. > but I don’t think you’re a spy, You later state that you think of me as a Resistance unit, but still don’t put me on the mission? You also seem to suggest you wouldn’t put me on the mission for reasons unmentioned. Why this contradiction in actions and speech? I’ve also seen no explanation as to why you only asked about the card that threatened your captainship, or have no defense about how I claimed you made excuses. Which is why, **[I decline this mission]**. This will basically manage to lay the foundation for Bluji being in other missions, and I think of him as spy, so I do not wish for that to happen. I am fine with yiu113 and djrockstar being chosen, though, because they gave the most satisfying answers according to me too. * * * [sebba] > 3. if everyone thinks you are spy and you just want to get it over with. The leader does not get the ability to use a power card. Please re-answer the question.

> *Originally posted by **[Kadleon](/forums/36/topics/370233?page=2#posts-7606262):*** > > EBWOP: > > **HOST: Can a power card (esp. No Confidence) be used after a majority in the voting phase has been reached?** : **No!** Do you have any idea how many people would ragequit if you could trump a hammer?! Also, regarding power cards, A leader can’t use Strong Leader because they’re already the leader. They can’t use No Confidence because they could simply pass to not waste the power or anyone’s time. A leader can use Close Eye and Spotlight though. **Overheard Conversation: Kadleon, you have a choice between Bluji and ~~dawn\_to\_dusk~~ djrockstar. This has to be used as soon as possible, so if there isn’t a decision made by the end of the voting phase, I’ll RNG it.** Alice, do you have telepath— : Sorry I’m late, I had to blast Cirno after she killed Rumia. : I want to say Cirno’s been acting funny recently… _(  Fairies!)_ : Anyway, you needed me for somethin’? : Kadleon is about to use Overheard Conversation, so depending on who he picks, steal either Bluji’s or ~~dawn\_to\_dusk’s~~ djrockstar’s role card and show it to Kad. : … : Okay now you’re scaring me. _(The idea of a silent, smiling Marisa does seem a bit creepy, actually. Not as much as a Slurpuff though…)_ : I think the word you’re looking for is borrow. In your terms, of course… **Your voting deadline is 12/13, 1 PM, MST. This might get extended to 11 PM if a lot of people attend [RaikouRider’s birthday stream](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e76qf4I8B3E) tomorrow.**

> Slight chance? I am even more surprised Pulsaris didn’t call you out on this, especially since he was the one to post the statistics of how a scum is likely to get on Mission 1 if it’s RNGed. I’m don’t know the exact numbers, but there is a chance is all I was saying. > Overheard Conversation: Kadleon, you have a choice between Bluji and dawn\_to\_dusk. Erm, I’m above Kadleon, not dawn\_to\_dusk, unless I misunderstood the card. But yeah, dawn\_to\_dusk is 2 slots below kad. **[Accept proposal]** Since M1, not enough evidence, you know. Not to mention I’m on the mission so yeah.

[Kadleon] > You also seem to suggest you wouldn’t put me on the mission for reasons unmentioned. I consider you as a Resistance _for now,_ but my stance on the matter can change — and maybe will, because you’re freaking out on me for reasons that seem semi-weak, as well (just to note — as I said, this is my first Resistance game, so don’t expect miracles from me). As I mentioned, you’re playing rather aggressively, which doesn’t seem very good, as we’re talking about mission 1 here which, as you said yourself: > is going to almost definitely pass Also, I gave you a card which you must use to define either my and dj’s alignment. If you really think I’m a spy based on these “tells” you’ve tried to gather, let the mission be accepted (since, as you said, M1 is going to almost definitely pass) and use it on me. If you choose to do so, you’ll find out I’m resistance. If you publicly claim otherwise, you’re a spy. Oh, and about these “excuses” you claim me of using — I gave the cards to active players I saw as worthy of receiving them instead of sending them by RNG to inactives. As well, why would I worry about losing captainship _in the first team of the first mission for the very same reason I’ve already quoted word-to-word twice in this post:_ > **M1 is going to almost definitely pass**

Oh, and it’s gonna take a while before it’s my turn to be captain again if at all — so I’m not worrying about that either.

Apologies for the late start. My only experience with Resistance has been the simplified chat version, so I may have some questions as we go along. Other than that, I’ll be treating it like mafia, which is to say I’ll be parsing conversation for inaccuracies, inconsistencies, and otherwise suspicious behavior, and analyzing mission behavior/outcomes. * * * > *Originally posted by **[Bluji](/forums/36/topics/370233?page=2#posts-7601360):*** > > **1)** What pros there are in RNGing the first mission? > > **2)** What cons there are in RNGing the first mission? > > **3)** What use do you find for the No Confidence power card? 1. and 2. The pros and cons of RNGing the first mission are basically interwoven, since without the use of cards, any player choice at this stage is going to be essentially random. To that extent, Mission 1 becomes a partial but imperfect litmus test for those three players. Obviously, if the mission fails, at least one of the three is a spy. If it succeeds, it provides us with very limited information, since that is no guarantor of alignment in either direction. This is of course greatly impacted by card distribution, which certainly adds something to the game (my two chat experiences were entirely vanilla. They were also both sabotaged by djrockstar undermining the integrity of the game, so I’m not pleased to see him playing here). Whether or not to RNG-distribute cards is by far the better question. If you can save them for distribution later, that might be more useful when we have more information to direct how the cards might be applied. If they have to be used now, by all means do so for the first and third. For the second (No Confidence)… 3. No Confidence is a dangerous card, since it is based purely on player list. It can be used to skip a Resistance leader and switch to a Spy leader; on the other hand, it can be used to skip a Spy leader for a Resistance leader. Pre-mission 1 it’s essentially total chance, although since there are more Resistance than Spies there is technically a higher chance of it being distributed to a Resistance player. That said, it invites a potential complication, since we can’t know for sure who the Spies are absent card-confirmation or mechanical (mission results) data, so even if distributed to a Resistance player, it could still be used improperly. At this point in the game, I’d hesitate to distribute it, but it becomes increasingly more valuable with additional information.

> *Originally posted by **[Bluji](/forums/36/topics/370233?page=2#posts-7606505):*** > > - yiu113, because the other players gave me some minor feels I didn’t like, were inactive or was Kad.> *Originally posted by **[Bluji](/forums/36/topics/370233?page=2#posts-7606505):*** > > Kad, I’m giving you a chance to find out my alignment if you choose so. You could, of course, go for djrockstar if you end up deciding I’m resistance. Of course you could be a spy and use the card on me, then telling I’m a spy, but I don’t think you’re a spy, although you’re rather aggressive and didn’t note sebba’s bizarre answer to question 3: This is bizarre. You’re uncomfortable with sending Kad on the mission, yet you assigned him a very powerful card. Actions speak louder than words: if you’re not confident enough to send him on a mission that there’s a general consensus of expected success anyway, why would you send him the Overheard Conversation card? That feels off, honestly. * * * > *Originally posted by **[Bluji](/forums/36/topics/370233?page=2#posts-7606677):*** > > Also, I gave you a card which you must use to define either my and dj’s alignment. If you really think I’m a spy based on these “tells” you’ve tried to gather, let the mission be accepted (since, as you said, M1 is going to almost definitely pass) and use it on me. If you choose to do so, you’ll find out I’m resistance. If you publicly claim otherwise, you’re a spy. > > Oh, and about these “excuses” you claim me of using — I gave the cards to active players I saw as worthy of receiving them instead of sending them by RNG to inactives. As well, why would I worry about losing captainship _in the first team of the first mission for the very same reason I’ve already quoted word-to-word twice in this post_ This seems weird as well. Assigning cards based on activity is RNG in itself. Card distribution (at least of that card) is a good thing, since it will ultimately provide information (even if sent to a Spy) where we would otherwise have none. But the best use of cards is obviously to send them to Resistance; basing distribution on activity-related “worthiness” is at best RNG and at worst provides a template for the Spies to influence card distribution/acquisition.

> *Originally posted by **[djrockstar](/forums/36/topics/370233?page=2#posts-7606659):*** > > Erm, I’m above Kadleon, not dawn\_to\_dusk, unless I misunderstood the card. But yeah, dawn\_to\_dusk is 2 slots below kad.  I don’t know how I made that mistake in the first place, but it’s fixed now.

Eh, it’s M1. Let’s see how it roles. **[Accept Proposal]**

> *Originally posted by **[Kadleon](/forums/36/topics/370233?page=2#posts-7606561):*** > > [Bluji] > > > because I know I’m a Resistance officer. > > Is that what you got in your Role PM? You shouldn’t ignore questions like that, Blu. * * * (Kad) > I don’t like the emphasis on this. As I said previously, keep an open mind. You’ve seen how things happened with the norm of there being RNG, resistance has not prevailed until yet. If we keep doing that, it never will. I often think that day 1 discussions of mafia games are not really fruitful. Hell, have you ever seen a scum lynched D1? Only if the scum’s name is Pigjr1. However, some discussions are better than none, and every little effort counts. Especially with Bluji’s mini-RQS I’m actually hoping we will have a good start. * * * (Precarious) > This is of course greatly impacted by card distribution, which certainly adds something to the game (my two chat experiences were entirely vanilla. They were also both sabotaged by djrockstar undermining the integrity of the game, so I’m not pleased to see him playing here). Whether or not to RNG-distribute cards is by far the better question. If you can save them for distribution later, that might be more useful when we have more information to direct how the cards might be applied. If they have to be used now, by all means do so for the first and third. For the second (No Confidence)… Yes, as the card distribution is seen by all people, we shall really monitor how and what the cards are doing. It is something that the town can actually force information out from, no matter the information is fake or not. I also suggest **the town to decide the target of In the Spotlight by BLOODYRAIN10001.** > This is bizarre. You’re uncomfortable with sending Kad on the mission, yet you assigned him a very powerful card. Actions speak louder than words: if you’re not confident enough to send him on a mission that there’s a general consensus of expected success anyway, why would you send him the Overheard Conversation card? That feels off, honestly. This, in my opinion, is just a personal thing. You know, he’s Kad, **or Jask.** And by no means we shall assume that M1 must be a success. In fact, there is only a 1/6 chance that there is no scum in M1. Just because the previous Spies have chosen to play safe, we can’t really assume this one here. > This seems weird as well. Assigning cards based on activity is RNG in itself. Card distribution (at least of that card) is a good thing, since it will ultimately provide information (even if sent to a Spy) where we would otherwise have none. But the best use of cards is obviously to send them to Resistance; basing distribution on activity-related “worthiness” is at best RNG and at worst provides a template for the Spies to influence card distribution/acquisition. Now you talked as if you know who the Spies and the Resistance are. This is prime spytell. The fact is, Bluji does not have solid tells on who the Spies are, and if Bluji is a Spy, he will also have to act as if he doesn’t know the Spies. The card distribution criteria must be: 1. From information gleaned from this only page of discussion; or 2. RNG There is no third way in M1. If you go the third way, you are Spy. **[FoS: Precarious]** * * * I must agree with Bluji on this one. By issuing cards to actives, they have absolutely no reason not to use the card. That means, there is a guaranteed information gain. If the cards are given to inactives, the card can be wasted. Also, Spies can say, “sorry I’m inactive” and refuse to use the card. * * * Last but not least, I offer my two principles for playing the Resistance game here, as food for thought and seed of discussion. **1. If a mission succeeds, assume there are two Spies, not none.** **2. Four Spies and two careless Resistance make a hammer done.**

Ok then, I suggest I use my card on Kadleon. This way, we discover his alignment, and whether his results from No Confidence are to be trusted, making both cards as effective as they can be. Does this seem logical you guys?

Oh, and yes, I got that in my role PM. Dunno how I missed that question.

> *Originally posted by **[BLOODYRAIN10001](/forums/36/topics/370233?page=2#posts-7607844):*** > > Ok then, I suggest I use my card on Kadleon. This way, we discover his alignment, and whether his results from No Confidence are to be trusted, making both cards as effective as they can be. Does this seem logical you guys? Oh, and you can’t use the card on Kad this round, since he’s not on the mission. The card I gave you does the following: > **In the Spotlight:** After the current mission has resolved, I will publicly post target player’s disposition on that mission. You must choose your target before the mission resolves, but if the mission is rejected, your card will not be consumed. As we’ve come to conclude, mission 1 almost always succeeds, so I believe it will be a waste. I’d suggest you to keep it until M3 or so, because I think it’s one of the riskiest missions.

@Bluji: You got officer, are you sure?