Ok so last year about this time nikeas was thinking of running something on that micro system and I was planning to bring empire here after the summer, which i could still be planning to do this year

> *Originally posted by **[mendelde](/forums/7099/topics/579767?page=28#13176007)**:* > Ok so last year about this time nikeas was thinking of running something on that micro system > and I was planning to bring empire here after the summer, which i could still be planning to do this year Microlite wouldnt fit what I have in mind. But FUDGE and Fate would def work. I can try making a filler low-effort Microlite game with a generic setting if you want.

not my ideal type of game, but I'd play it if you made it

I know a dicebot which handles fudge dice commands, so I'll bring it into the server.

Ah, thank you all so much for the ideas/suggestions! I was actually kind of imagining something along the lines of fun with eldritch horrors (or semi eldritch. I've been playing a lot of Lobotomy Corp so it's not necessarily Cthulhu Mythos, but just kind of weird stuff mixed in with maybe some scary things) which many people suggested so I'm a bit relieved since it's not something that feels super niche here. So one of my ideas was something kind of inspired by the SMT Devil Survivor series or Stevens Kings novel 'The Mist' (general situation at least with monsters invading a city minus humans being able to beat demons, then use cash like Pokeballs to catch/bribe demons, and summon said demons to fight for them via calling forth as something similar to JoJo Stands/Personas using a cellphone) where it takes place in a city overrunned by monsters and other horrible things and you're trying to survive for maybe a week (until the monsters get bored with invading and return to wherever they came from), and gameplay would be more along the lines of side quest materials where the players investigate what's happening and the incidents that occur during this time (rumours of a strange TV that shows viewers their deaths, why are there ninety nine red balloons floating around a nuclear power station, train sounds continuing underground despite the apocalypse, etc), try to fight off strong than average monsters that pose a (bigger) threat to the humans, and finding generally useful people/supplies. I guess this would focus on a bunch of mini adventures instead of a single large adventure. My other idea was kind of something like somehow (probably weird science accident) getting stuck in a tower some other place in another dimension where everything is kind of strange (coins always lands on side, vending machines only dispense flat beverages (except for things like milk or coffee which is always fizzy enough to give you a headache), and mirrors functions like TVs, and news anchor only gives scathing criticism about how much of a disappointment you are instead reporting the news, etc), and it's filled with monsters and appliances/office supplies trying to kill you. And I guess the general point in this idea is trying to figure out how to leave this place before you go insane and go dead. ____ >I was thinking about hosting something myself personally, but FC seems like a more reliable option :) >Not sure if I'm understanding "planeswalking" right, but that would be really neat and I'd be up for that. You'd need a decently creative host for that though. If you do want to or are interested in hosting something, please do so! Although there really isn't a limit to how concurrent games can happen at once and games like these are slow enough that more than one on a forum should be manageable. Also I'm probably pretty unreliable as a host since I'm someone that ends up getting confused by my own rules or get overwhelmed when it comes to making things fun/fair. >But once again, I can't guarantee in any capacity that I'll actually make this game and, if it does start, will it take off anywhere decent. Regardless of how decent it is, I'm sure it'll be great enough that we'll still all have fun in the end.

How many people would be interested in a clone of this: https://www.kongregate.com/forums/7099-forum-games/topics/677993 ?

so, like, dung crawl with minimal effort put in by the players (and prob host)? well im in

> *Originally posted by **[yeasy](/forums/7099/topics/579767?page=28#13186509)**:* > How many people would be interested in a clone of this: > > https://www.kongregate.com/forums/7099-forum-games/topics/677993 > > ? Issues as I remember them: a) slow as molasses b) using conditional moves for maximum strategy c) constant rebalancing as the game went on d) skills/buffs that take multiple turns to set up, and host losing track e) no memorable highlights for me ("oh yeah, the game where we killed a bunch of rats, and player almost died") I mean, it was a good effort, and good team play, but I'd want a rerun to be better. If I wanted to develop this game, I'd try to use these mechanics for PvP. Set up two teams, have them pick their roles and upgrades from a fixed budget (rather than having to earn items on skill points), have one battle (or maybe, if people want, a "best of three" match), then end it or re-build teams differently. Do a 3vs3 players, with each player comtrolling 2 characters for a 6v6 battle, maybe?

Conditional moves were my main problems with that game. I personally really didn't like the idea of things such as "heal character with the lowest hp" or "cast lighting on the monster with the lowest hp." That and the game discouraged tanks I believe. Characters that died got to pick loot last if I recall correctly and there wasn't a guarantee there would be enough loot for everyone (which would then lead to them dying faster in future fights, and letting them pick loot last again) That said though, Mendelde issues were the general problem with the game. Fights did take too long, and I think perhaps three turns or so would be a good cutoff point? Like when the battle lasts three turns, look at how the battle is going and either speed it up or add some flair to change it up (baby slimes are afraid of pain and thus retreats into the cave never to be heard from ever again, or mom slime appears, and is very angry you've hurt the baby slimes and now seeks to devour you). Although I'm not too sure how well the whole team thing would go. I assume both sides would try to play optimal, and the users would ultimately agree to one strategy/build and follow through with it, so I do think it would work better as one person controls all characters (since I feel the game would amount to that anyways and it would speed things up as less discussion would be necessary to reach a decision if the game is solo), and each person would have their own party (I recall someone did a game like that before, I believe perhaps qwertyuiopazs did that?)

> slow as molasses What speed would be optimal? 3-5 turns? > using conditional moves for maximum strategy That can be partially avoided by dropping the initiative system (eg. players always act first), but that could also harm balance of the game. Especially If battles would be designed to last only 3 turns. Other option is to forbid conditional moves. What do you think is the best solution? *(I believe this issue will be the hardest to workaround)* > constant rebalancing as the game went on No rebalancing then, or at least very rare. Host will have to be more careful in pregame. > skills/buffs that take multiple turns to set up, and host losing track Mostly host dependent issue. Perhaps a better tracking system would fix it. > no memorable highlights for me What would be your expectation of memorable moments? It's very stat-based game, ideal for people who don't want to overcontribute, so it's hard to act beyond the game model. More flavor text and images, more lore? Extend game rules to make the game more dynamic, like adding movement and interactable objects, or environmental modifiers? More optional/secondary content (option for PvP battles as mentioned, perhaps achievements/reward tokens for purchasables)? --- > That and the game discouraged tanks I believe. Characters that died got to pick loot last if I recall correctly What would be better then, less or none death penalty or higher risk = higher reward? One option is to distribute loot randomly, without the whole picking thing. Other option is to give frontline loot-picking priority or bonus to experience/reward rolls. Do you have other alternatives or ideas? > Like when the battle lasts three turns, look at how the battle is going and either speed it up or add some flair to change it up Good idea, matches the forementioned environmental modifiers. > each person would have their own party I don't feel well about each person having their own party, but since forum is less active than before, how about giving everyone two characters? One frontline, one backline. That way, we fix issues with the death penalty, since the choice of characters was fair for everyone, so it becomes an issue of RNG/action choice. Perhaps option for more characters could be added as the game progresses or as players drop out, to keep the game going. --- Any extra suggestions or remarks? So, finally, If these issues were addressed by changing/fixing the rules, would you still be interested in playing?

Hell, you could make some lore BS about commanding two avatars or shit. Could make players summoners and give us a lot of unusual options for chars - golems, elementals... I think I got ahead of myself. As for highlights - game would probably need to be more fast-paced for that, but prolly some epic boss fight moments? I don't think the game is supposed to be very demanding activity and thinking-wise from the players though, so that would be problematic... I think the memorability part is just an issue with the game as a whole. Could try looking at clicker and incremental games - they suffer from a similar problem, but probably one or two break the mold a bit? Candy Box, Paperclip something, Cookie Clicker, A Dark Room - they get away with plenty of memorable moments. Mayhaps we should take a hint from those?

>How many characters That's totally fine as long as the game is more about fun than being optimal. I don't want it so that there's always a best setup/move to do and not doing it will drag people down (since otherwise everyone planning out tactics every time takes too much time and it wouldn't be different than one person controlling an entire party, and I really don't like being ordered nor do I want to order anyone else to do something). >Balance I don't think constant rebalancing is a huge problem. I think the problem was that some combinations or moves were too potent and Spikeabc wanted a hard game, but rather than rebalancing moves so that they're all even, I don't mind it if things were made to be rebalanced to be more fun instead of making things harder. Things like some moves gaining utility or enemies being able to interact with some/all moves (for example an enemy that will keep using the last move used on it, so someone healing it essentially turns it into an ally or an enemy that becomes immune to any attacks that kill an ally (since it watches and adapts) which would encourage switching out moves and stuff.). >Buffs and stuffs (yay, I can haz the rhymes) I personally prefer the idea of either very potent buffs, or most buffs you learn/gain being passive/automatic since spending the first turn casting buffs kind of feels like a waste of time. >Events and Memorability It certainly wasn't very memorable, but then again, we only got through two fights (I don't think we even finished the second one) and they were pretty bland rat fights. I guess, maybe it would be nice if there were modifiers in some battles, for example your party or whatever is stuck between a rock (a literal rock, mind you) and a hard place (a neverending swarm of baby slimes), and the party has to figure out how to balance attacking/breaking the rock while at the same time culling the baby slime hoard so the constant reinforcement doesn't get overwhelming. More lore/flavour text would be nice, I guess, and it may even give players an end goal. I do think the classes in the original game were pretty vanilla fantasy stuff, and it would be nice if there were more creative classes and some classes that may shine in specific situations (for example a druid that may be better at destroying the rock I mentioned from earlier with the help of plants or a witch doctor that can loot enemy for body parts (such as orc rods) and then between battle, each body part is converted into a potion that could mimic an attack the monster could use (and one could save up boss body parts for something like a last resort nuke or something)). Even outlandish classes might be fun like a door to door salesman, or a ninja pirate zombie robot, or even a basic animal like a dog/cat/moocow/koala/narwhal, or even some unique class like Ronald McDonald. Possibly flip the chessboard. A dungeon has newly been discovered, and groups of adventurers go forth unto this uncharted land to delve into the labyrinth for treasure, glory, honor, booze, treasure, and fame, and wealth, however that group of adventurers aren't you. Instead, you're the inhabitants of the dungeon fending off wave after wave of adventurers who are absolutely convinced of two things. One, for some reason, if they kill you, there will be untold amounts of gold and magic items in your stomache. Two, there's some huge hoard of treasure somewhere around your home. Even an outlandish setting may be interesting. Like you could abandon the fantasy setting, and make it something wierd, like turn the characters into various fast food employee classes and the enemies all be customers (who if not properly fed, will complain to your boss and have you fired for poor service), who over time grow and grow more outlandish until the restaurant is hurrying to satiate things like Cthulhu and the Pantheon of the Elder Gods or a bunch of talking dinosaurs who will go Jurassic Park on you if you can't satiate them. >Turn limits I got that idea out of the Vampire the Masquerade book I was reading. It says players get bored if things take too long, and it's best to get things over quickly to move things along, and thinking about Splatoon 2 which I've been playing a lot of recently, I do think that it's really charming mainly because of how short the matches are so it keeps you excited to get to the next one. ____ I'm honestly not sure who will or will not be interested, but I do think you'll do a pretty good job since you've been a really good host, and I'll sign up for sure.

> *Originally posted by **[nikeas](/forums/7099/topics/579767?page=28#13187586)**:* > Could try looking at clicker and incremental games - they suffer from a similar problem, but probably one or two break the mold a bit? Candy Box, Paperclip something, Cookie Clicker, A Dark Room - they get away with plenty of memorable moments. Mayhaps we should take a hint from those? Now, to think of it, it's true that this game might suffer from later issues with repeatability. It might require a lot of brainstorming and rebalancing sessions (which in itself, is an issue as mentioned by mendelde) to keep it smooth. I'll try to look into these clickers, maybe they'll give some creative ideas on how to improve the gameplay. Heck, but I'm worried that I also fall into a logical trap, where every game would be deemed repeatable. ---- >* I don't want it so that there's always a best setup/move > * Things like some moves gaining utility > * some classes that may shine in specific situations The one issue with combat is that every set of abilities is reduced to what you can encounter in a standard CCG and most of utility skills leghten the game, so it's harder to meet the 3 turn limit requirement (I think at least 4 turns will be often necessary). I've already prepared some classes, so the game preserves spikeabc's standard fantasy setting. I guess that I'll post the game sometime today and give it a one day delay for discussion.

"no memorable highlights for me" It's not about the lore, the lore is cutscenes. Your space fleet game had memorable moments, like me trying to cross nikeas' territory unharmed to get to Gonkey, and trying to match FlyingCat's big fleet cluster. These are moments of suspense inherent in the game! But if you feel you're just grinding to an optimal strategy, there is no suspense, and all the lore in the world won't save you. I like FlyingCat's idea of single player control. I'd want to maybe allow hydras signing up, i.e. two players playing as a team, with either player allowed to submit moves. This ensures that strategy discussion can take place in private and at the players' discretion, and should keep the going going even if someone flakes out. Then allow several parties into the arena at the same time, locked in a deathmatch, and there you go, direct, up close and personal. PvP also reduces balancing needs, everyone has the same opportunities when the game starts, hopefully allowing for meaningful choices. If someone made bad choices, tough luck. Strategic games should be predictable to allow long term strategies. If the setup isn't completely broken, keep the game running; if it is, restart from scratch. But that's because I play to win; if someone plays "just for fun", they may think differently.

> *Originally posted by **[mendelde](/forums/7099/topics/579767?page=28#13188891)**:* > I like FlyingCat's idea of single player control. I'd want to maybe allow hydras signing up, i.e. two players playing as a team, with either player allowed to submit moves. This ensures that strategy discussion can take place in private and at the players' discretion, and should keep the going going even if someone flakes out. Then allow several parties into the arena at the same time, locked in a deathmatch, and there you go, direct, up close and personal. Yeah, idea of single player control has its benefits, but it's more time consuming on the host side. However, idea of a deathmatch between four-or-so group of players isn't bad. > PvP also reduces balancing needs, everyone has the same opportunities when the game starts, hopefully allowing for meaningful choices. If someone made bad choices, tough luck. Strategic games should be predictable to allow long term strategies. If the setup isn't completely broken, keep the game running; if it is, restart from scratch. But that's because I play to win; if someone plays "just for fun", they may think differently. Currently, the game is designed for PvE, so I'm not sure about status of PvP balance. I'll try to introduce some PvP (3v3, 6v6, 4 two-character team deathmatch), but I would like to do so in the later term, perhaps after the first or second PvE battle is over, so I can figure out the first problems with the balance and mechanics. The game thread is open for discussion, so you can submit your ideas/suggestions there.

Games I want to host: - a FUDGE-based RP(g) game where players are various creatures/people/being capable of using the hIdDen PoWeR of their minds, and slowly climb from being random fuckboys with some power to ungodly superpowered gods, with some save-the-multiverse plot in the background (aka everyone is op mage) - [this 8-player setup](https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=8-Ball) interest?

Would anyone be interested if I made an RP of sorts. There will be a few noteworthy things about it. 1) It is still very much set in the setting that I am working on and is very much my lifes goal to grow said setting into as much fruition as possible in whatever way possible. 2) It will run off a stat system but in an incredibly loose yet dynamic way that should keep the classic RP style gameplay we all enjoy whilst introducing experience, equipment, stats and skills in a meaningful way. To show an image:  The big box at the top is the battle simulator. It feeds stats and names through the battle mechanics and returns results of how quick you are able to kill your foe with psysical or magic attacks (example 2.38 means round up to 3 hits) how likely you are to hit them and the likelyness of a critical and the exact same information from them to you (For example in the inverse table Randomturtle is Foe 2). With this information as well as the abilities your foe posses the player can now fight most enemies without the host having to do a back and forth. As long as the player doesn't take the P### with never missing, foes never getting criticals ect. I can't complain even if they are silightly cheesing it behind the scenes I'm not too fussed as it's not blatant. This would make it easier for players to get through minor encounters and gives an opportunity to throw more enconters in as they are quicker. Otherwise everything is rather straightforward. Players can level up, get equipment, get skills and increase stats. As they level up so do the enemies they encounter. As for the plot of the game it will be about the lives of several people up until a critical event in the timeline where the build up of that event will definitely spill into the game. I want to place very little restriction on the game as to reflect the setting so I will allow anyone to start in any region (You'll pick an environment and I'll put places on the map for you to pick from [Example; you say swamp and I give you 4 swamp towns (With discription of what it's like locally) across the world to pick from] and then I can build the world outwards from the points people want to be at and I get to design new stuff.) [Link to full size image](https://i.imgur.com/cd4KZsd.png)

First of all to begin, totally good luck on it, and I do hope you achieve your dreams does come to fruition. Anyways, I'd totally be interested in that, but I probably won't sign up unless at least two other people are interested, since being the only one to sign up or having the other person who signed up drop out and being the only one makes things really awkward. It's definitely an interesting system, and it seems really organized. Although since I do think it takes place in the setting you're working on, I would suggest you give players info about the lore and stuff (and at least what is/isn't allowed (i.e. no pirates if there are no seas, no immortal vampires, no steam engineers (either because steam tech is too advanced or it's already outdated), etc.).

> *Originally posted by **[FlyingCat](/forums/7099/topics/579767?page=28#13202852)**:* > First of all to begin, totally good luck on it, and I do hope you achieve your dreams does come to fruition. > > Anyways, I'd totally be interested in that, but I probably won't sign up unless at least two other people are interested, since being the only one to sign up or having the other person who signed up drop out and being the only one makes things really awkward. > > It's definitely an interesting system, and it seems really organized. > > Although since I do think it takes place in the setting you're working on, I would suggest you give players info about the lore and stuff (and at least what is/isn't allowed (i.e. no pirates if there are no seas, no immortal vampires, no steam engineers (either because steam tech is too advanced or it's already outdated), etc.). Thank you for your input. It inspired me to sit down and write out the general history for 3 hours and it seems to be good groundwork for me to build rules from.

After thinking about it and rereading, I do think that as players get stronger and the opponents getting stronger while good for game design may not be so good for a roleplay setting based around plot and stuff. It may not be a bad idea to let super noob like players meet some strong opponent or vice versa since enemies don't neccessarily have to be as strong as you for it to be a challenge (i.e. if a player is trying to sneak somewhere unnoticed, even weak sentries or a lowly guard can be a huge threat since all they have to do is simply shout and they've succeeded in foiling the player.) Plus it'll be kind of wierd (society suddenly gets really powerful when you're powerful now, but back like a month ago ingame time when you were a noob starting your adventure, pretty much everyone else on the continent was also a noob) and you wouldn't really feel like you're making progress if enemies keep scaling up to you.

> *Originally posted by **[FlyingCat](/forums/7099/topics/579767?page=28#13203471)**:* > After thinking about it and rereading, I do think that as players get stronger and the opponents getting stronger while good for game design may not be so good for a roleplay setting based around plot and stuff. It may not be a bad idea to let super noob like players meet some strong opponent or vice versa since enemies don't neccessarily have to be as strong as you for it to be a challenge (i.e. if a player is trying to sneak somewhere unnoticed, even weak sentries or a lowly guard can be a huge threat since all they have to do is simply shout and they've succeeded in foiling the player.) I see your point, but I guess I mean that in a more general sense. For example if you are a low level you wouldn't seek out an encounter with something high level. Some things will be fixed at a high levels but like you said I could throw a swarm of low level stuff. To be honest I agree with you. Although I won't scale everything directly with level I could if I wanted to. It's worth noting that equipment and skills might end up making you significantly more powerful than stuff your level. > Plus it'll be kind of wierd (society suddenly gets really powerful when you're powerful now, but back like a month ago ingame time when you were a noob starting your adventure, pretty much everyone else on the continent was also a noob) and you wouldn't really feel like you're making progress if enemies keep scaling up to you. I agree especially considering the lore, which although right now unposted, definitely would benefit from different types of thngs being different levels.

@Randomturtle i feel that your system is too complex for a forum game setting it might work well in a tabletop or computer game, but you're always going to limit your playerbase more if the complexity of the rules goes up

>I agree especially considering the lore, which although right now unposted, definitely would benefit from different types of thngs being different levels. I think the game Xenoblade X did accel at creating a realistic environment because level ranges were all over the place (and there was like a level 100 boss wandering in the nearby plains right next to the main hub city). As for the higher level things, while certainly an ant wouldn't dare dream of picking a fight with a dragon, sometimes the dragon may come for the ant. It's always possible something unexpected may appear (if we're using real life environments as an example) such as hunting weak bandits camped out in a swamp may turn out to be a pretty terrifying ordeal if a massive twenty meter long crocodile (like the one in that Jurassic Park movie) bursts out of the waters or something, or there may just be some kind of walking natural disaster (in one of my favorite online CCG, Alteil, one of the blurbs for one of the cards, a mountain sized giant turtle says its just a natural disaster that wanders around and sometimes it'll just walk straight through an impenetrable fortress turning it into rubble so it's an example of how some powerful beings may just appear or something). >@Randomturtle i feel that your system is too complex for a forum game setting Mendeldes point certainly is true. While your game is ambitious and I am sure you've put a lot of effort into it, and while I don't mind it, it is possible that it may deter some players, although I guess it could possibly negated by providing the players with abridged/summarized information.

> although I guess it could possibly negated by providing the players with abridged/summarized information. That's exactly the point. I condensed it down into 4 outputs to keep it simple. I will give players the option to play with RNG or with Karma, whatever they prefer. Although I can imagine some hefty reference guides needing to be given to players for applying some inputs, such as skills. However the main aim is to keep the clutter away from the players unless they do want to browse it, so my main layout will mainly show them what they are most interested in. For example instead of showing them add options, I only show the best (Picking skills, Changing Equipment) however if the player wants they can veiw the full skill chart or their entire inventory. The two systems of player are simple, RNG; where you the player use a Random Number Generator to decide the outcome of RNG events using information given to you, and I will do the same. or Karma; Post as normal just make sure that things line up with the information given. For example Accuracy around 90% is a normal number, your's might be a bit higher however you still should miss occasionally, if you have launched over 50 attacks and never missed then it would be cheating by disabling the effectiveness of some stats. Likewise not every hit will be a critical but getting some occasionally is expected. The only other thing would be to play honestly when handling NPCs. Use the abilities they have ect. The TL;DR goal of this is: To create a system in which an RP can have stats but not be massively slowed down as a consequence of them.

Good news, it's up.