> *Originally posted by **[ShinyMetalMod](/forums/727066/topics/704532?page=1#10989655)**:* However, we don't intend to stop the ranked challenges. So, if 99,9% of the players tell you they don't want ranked challenges, you still want to do ranked challenges? Why?

Why not just make it so that the ai will not combo on turn 2. Turn 3 and on combo away, precombos are fine too. The problem is if I face my own deck I have a 0 percent chance of winning. Not exaggerating. 0 percent.

Or just nerf Crazed talents. Or ban it in SFC.

> _Originally posted by **[JeffB657](/forums/726779/topics/704532?page=3#10990240):**_ > The problem is if I face my own deck I have a 0 percent chance of winning. Not exaggerating. 0 percent. Same, I think it's funny how people say make your deck better, you don't understand, my deck is already really really **really** good. If I faced my own deck and it made any of the combos in my deck on turn 2, I would never beat my own deck, **NEVER**. To not understand how that is a monstrous problem, completely baffles me.

> _Originally posted by **[Lexandrite](/forums/726779/topics/704532?page=2#10990089):**_ > It's not just challenging. Challenging is fun, it's welcomed. But it's really unbalanced with the AI going first. Every farmable card in my deck is maxed out besides one Peggy and one Golden turd. The card I have with the highest health is leela but even she can be taken down first turn by a maxed thinker ape and a hero that adds damage. And if she's not taken down first turn by a maxed combo she only survives with one or two health and dies next turn. A player posted videos showing how insane combos being played first can take down quad fused maxed cards. So it's not just challenging it's unbalanced, and you guys need to find a way to keep it challenging while addressing the incredible advantage first turn is. I don't care if I go against insane cards as long as I actually have a chance to fight against them without every maxed card I put down being killed instantly. + 1

> _Originally posted by **[Lexandrite](/forums/726779/topics/704532?page=2#10990113):**_ > > _Originally posted by **[MarcP322](/forums/726779/topics/704532?page=2#10990108):**_ > > As good as a coin flip sounds, look at who we're talking about here... It's Kongregate, they'll just make it to where the computer wins 9/10 coin flips. Still screwed. I say let us go first. > > Or if we don't go first at least give us a defense card Agreed

Its better to give us a defence card so the SFC can be more balance. But to be honest, I prefer SFC rather than the old easy boring level 15. Only around 60% winning percentage, but its waaay much more fun to play. :)

First of all kudos to making such an awesome game, putting in all the effort and great ideas. Staying on topic - and to reiterate what many before me suggested - please simply put an **opt out button for SFC**. Many of my guild mates including me still want to max lvl their heroes, but SFC makes this an ordeal. Cheers in advance <3

> would like an option which doesn't give even more free wins to opponents If you lose, noone is getting a win. It’s still just the AI playing some random deck. > So, if 99,9% of the players tell you they don't want ranked challenges, you still want to do ranked challenges? Why? It doesn’t really matter what players say, per se. Bare with me. It’s only natural that only the frustrated players will complain the most. You have no idea how many players are there in the SFC compared to those that can’t get a single win out of it, or have a crappy win rate of below 30%. The devs, on the other hand, know this just by looking at the data. I’m not saying that it is this way, but maybe, just maybe, the devs are reasonable people and don’t close down the SFC because the majority of players can manage somehow. > Same, I think it's funny how people say make your deck better, you don't understand, my deck is already really really really good. If I faced my own deck and it made any of the combos in my deck on turn 2, I would never beat my own deck, NEVER. To not understand how that is a monstrous problem, completely baffles me. Yes, that is a real problem. You should at least have a chance that is not luck based agains your own set of cards. The attacking power of a deck is greater than its defense. We did an analysis and came up with a result that there is no farmable card combo that can defend against a quad Paladin — so with minor exceptions of random precombos you can get from challenges as a F2P — having a Peggy / Rifle deck will *always* beat any F2P deck. If it goes first that is.

> _Originally posted by **[mlebkowski](/forums/726779/topics/704532?page=3#10990968):**_ > > would like an option which doesn't give even more free wins to opponents > > If you lose, noone is getting a win. It’s still just the AI playing some random deck. > > > So, if 99,9% of the players tell you they don't want ranked challenges, you still want to do ranked challenges? Why? > > It doesn’t really matter what players say, per se. Bare with me. It’s only natural that only the frustrated players will complain the most. You have no idea how many players are there in the SFC compared to those that can’t get a single win out of it, or have a crappy win rate of below 30%. The devs, on the other hand, know this just by looking at the data. I’m not saying that it is this way, but maybe, just maybe, the devs are reasonable people and don’t close down the SFC because the majority of players can manage somehow. > > > Same, I think it's funny how people say make your deck better, you don't understand, my deck is already really really really good. If I faced my own deck and it made any of the combos in my deck on turn 2, I would never beat my own deck, NEVER. To not understand how that is a monstrous problem, completely baffles me. > > Yes, that is a real problem. You should at least have a chance that is not luck based agains your own set of cards. The attacking power of a deck is greater than its defense. We did an analysis and came up with a result that there is no farmable card combo that can defend against a quad Paladin — so with minor exceptions of random precombos you can get from challenges as a F2P — having a Peggy / Rifle deck will *always* beat any F2P deck. If it goes first that is. Would a fix to this problem somehow be just inverting the arena? Giving the player a defense cards of sorts and the chance to make a combo on the second slot.

I would like a refund of my VIP pass. Game is worst since I bought it. Should not have.

> *Originally posted by **[mlebkowski](/forums/727066/topics/704532?page=3#10990968)**:* > > would like an option which doesn't give even more free wins to opponents > > If you lose, noone is getting a win. It’s still just the AI playing some random deck. Valid point, got a little ahead of myself.

It's like this company can never admit they did anything wrong. "Oh look at all these people that love SFC" Then every comment made by users there after state the opposite. "Some of you dont like the ranked challenges. Well we are not going to remove them because we are cashing in on this cash cow and don't care what you f2p peasants think." Get a grip or this game will die out very quickly. Its already getting bland.

Yeah, I am stuck in the 500-700 range, keep going up and down...would like to drop out so I can finish farming tokens, but do I really need to loose 20+ games to do that????? I am an opt-out button would be ideal...even if it was a one time deal...

At least there is a way out of SFC purgatory now. Is it inelegant? Yes. Does it fix any of the inherent flaws that still plague SFC? No. But even if I had been at 300 or more crowns, I would gladly lose 15 or so matches in a row to be able to get consistent income and character tokens again. People were absolutely not enjoying SFC en masse and this was a fast, SERVER-SIDE fix that could be implemented immediately. Adding a button or an option to opt out would involve a CLIENT-SIDE update, which means a whole new build that has to be approved by Apple Store and Google Play store, which takes weeks. I appreciate the quick response to the feedback and implementing a quick, if inelegant, fix until a new update can be tested, approved, and uploaded to the Apple/Google stores. As far as admitting they were wrong, I don't see how much more of a backpedal they could possibly do. It was literally said in the official post here http://www.kongregate.com/forums/727066-general/topics/701900-official-research-accelerator-secret-fight-club-mythics-and-more that "you can't drop out of Secret Fight Club." Less than a week later, they make a server-side change that allows you to do exactly that. I, for one, am ok with this temporary solution. I'd rather they take a month or two to test alternative mechanics/solutions to the core issues in SFC than putting out some change that is either ineffective or somehow makes it worse. (There are people who are doing well in the current mechanic, just only about 300 or so. These also happen to be the biggest spenders and making them unhappy would put a serious dent in their income stream.)

> *Originally posted by **[Schnabby](/forums/727066/topics/704532?page=3#10990238)**:* > > *Originally posted by **[ShinyMetalMod](/forums/727066/topics/704532?page=1#10989655)**:* > However, we don't intend to stop the ranked challenges. > > So, if 99,9% of the players tell you they don't want ranked challenges, you still want to do ranked challenges? Why? The majority of complaints for ranked challenges revolved around the lack of rewards for the coins earned during the challenge. The idea of ranked challeneges isn't inherently terrible. However, I think that having the ability to buy unlimited refills made the last challenge more of something only high-paying players could compete in and not really a way to see how powerful your deck is. The limitation in a ranked challenge should be the power of your deck, not how many times you are willing to spend gems in order to get to your maximum deck potential. Ideally, I'd like the ranked challenges to work on a scoring system like the rumble has. 100 points for a win, losing points for damage taken and not healed. Each win moves you up a level, up to a cap. A loss would take you down 2, as is currently the case, and award 0 points. The level cap would depend on how long the challenge is scheduled to go for. But lets say 100 over a week's time, with 10 energy free each day. People that can win at cap, wouldn't be able to flawlessly. Ranks would be based on level first, then based on points in the event of having the same level. I really liked the mechanic of the computer-controlled cards getting a 25% heal each round, it made the fights last longer and there were more options rather than a 2nd turn combo that 1 shots everything. This would make it much more difficult to all tie so that a whole guild all get the number 1 reward. While a group can all be at level cap, it would be very difficult that ensure everyone has the same number of points due to RNG nature of battles. It also allows room to buy refills in order to have the ability to get higher than level 71, needing 3 to get to cap without losing. Whales can buy more to have an advantage when it comes to possible points, but wouldn't be guaranteed 100 points a win, even if they are strong enough to win at level 100. I'd prefer a 3 refill a day max, but understand if it might make more business sense to allow a handful of players to spend thousands of gems on unlimited refills rather than encourage a larger number of players to spend 600 gems a day for 7 days.

> _Originally posted by **[Alebar91](/forums/726779/topics/704532?page=1#10989771):**_ > Shiny I would like to know a sigle player Who told you that SFC Is fun. Tell me how fun it Is If you fight 10 Times in a row against 300 dollars knife or paddlin peggy or anally defaced. You need a Fùłł precomboed deck and big grands even to just be able to feel it like challenging. What Are you talking about?? > > As regards Zapp challenge you could have just said "We didnt delete the normal challenges but every tot. of time We will enter in milking mode to suck big cash from our lifeless players" That is the Point! I don't want to leave SFC but i want a Chance to Win! There is no Way to Win without Legendary Cards. Where can i farm Legendary Cards to make Quadfusioned Legendary? Nowhere! Or it seems to take Years. I spent over 180€ and i think its enaugh. I would really like to see something. No i just think my Money and my Time is Wastet.

What about players who genuinely WANT to do the SFC but have a string of bad luck and lose the first 3 matches???? then they have to grind their asses back through half of rank 15??? that is complete bullshit and it is definitely possible. I win more matches than I lose in SFC but there are definitely times when I have had more than a 3 game losing streak! Seriously, how hard is it to have an opt out button? Who's whacked out idea was it to lose 3 matches at 0 points to opt out?

> *Originally posted by **[Amcbride86](/forums/727066/topics/704532?page=3#10992245)**:* > What about players who genuinely WANT to do the SFC but have a string of bad luck and lose the first 3 matches???? then they have to grind their asses back through half of rank 15??? that is complete bullshit and it is definitely possible. I win more matches than I lose in SFC but there are definitely times when I have had more than a 3 game losing streak! Seriously, how hard is it to have an opt out button? Who's whacked out idea was it to lose 3 matches at 0 points to opt out? Like the people in this post: https://www.kongregate.com/forums/727068-technical-issues-feedback/topics/704595-moved-from-secret-fight-club-back-to-level-15

How about just nerfing the crazed all together, I don't mind a longer match , maybe then I can start using different cards in my deck

Sfc was hard for me the first time but after getting sent back to 15 I was able to max Frye at 10. And I just refresh until I get an opponent 7 or less. Refreshing is a tool everyone should use. I did it to max out Frye and it worked. Couldn't buy the packs and upgrade my cards but was able to get Frye to 10. Use refresh

I like SFC, but it really pisses me off most of the time. I hover around 1000 points and it's next to impossible to level up heroes since it costs so much and you will probably lose anyway, and if you do win you probably will not get hero tokens. It's obvious that the AI stacks the deck since they start with giggitygun like %80 of the time, but I think a lot of the issues would be fixed if cards were balanced a bit (I think pretty much all cards should get a HP boost. I would like it if matches lasted a bit longer). Punch is OP and a decent punch card will destroy your first card if it doesnt have a ton of HP.

Here's an idea. Why don't they just give us our defense cards while the opponent goes first? The opponent still gets the first turn but we at least have something to take the hit. I'm sick and tired of losing match after match just because they play a single fused giggity gun. I'm also very frustrated with the deck composition some of these players are allowed to get away with. 13 Amy's- 13 virtuvian man or 13 rifle- 13 paddling Peggy? Why is this allowed it is unfair as hell. I am getting beat by 1 Amy, 1 V man, and 1 Amy. They don't even need to play thinker ape and I'm guaranteed to lose on the third turn. This is with me playing maxed $300 knifes, paddling Peggy's, penguin conservators, even wing it leela. The only cards that can last the first turn right now are drunk Stan and drunk Brian. Sometimes bender bray makes is but only sometimes. It's seriously broken and you could do some easy things to fix it. IMO endgame should be about FARMING not losing 80% of battles and wasting all of your currency trying to get a hero to 10 which will never happen