[GemCraft Labyrinth] not gonna make it...

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I’ve gotten through 2/3 of the game roughly.

But even though there are a lot of improvements to the interface over GC0 and some cool new stuff, it’s just gotten very boring. Here are my thoughts why it isn’t worth doing the rest of the game (I didn’t buy the premium so I play Po boy style):

1) lemon-lime gem. Other people have mentioned it, way OP.
2) All armor wave mode. Once this opened up I never had another problem beating a wave. Giving the big exp bonus for this mode is a joke. it ought to give a 50% penalty for beating it this way.
3) Armor in general just stinks. brokenly bad.
4) same strategy works every single map once you unlock armor only mode.
5) only about 4 of the 8 gem types have any remote value and the rest are utter trash.
6) yawwwwwnnnn….

I’m no god at this game believe me. But I see no compelling reason to believe i would have trouble on any of the other nearly 60 levels especially now that having beaten well over 100 I have most of the good skills.

Definitely not going to buy the premium either. Not that worried about proving my greatness to the world by scoring a million points on a map.

I still give the game 5/5 just saying, it really didn’t need to be quite so long from what I’ve seen.

 
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2-OR it could be changed to “fast-armored”, where the armored monsters travel at normal monster speeds.

3. eh, it’s hard to tweak that. or maybe a new “faster armor increase” which gives an exponential increase in armor (even if that increase is still slower than the hp increase).

5. actually, poison is good for the first couple of maps, though nobody expects it to be a good end-game gem (unless you reduce monster hp to 1, but leave them with 100000000 armor, in which case…), blue would be ok if lime/yellow/(red/orange/null) weren’t so overpowered, and I admit that cyan got nerfed-the increase in immunity should only be 1-2%, and banished monsters should lose immunity. that would still cap the abilities of a 100% stun

6. Anger the monsters to make it more interseting. I anger out of habit, and I get myself into trouble nearly half the time. though, i admit that having spent hours and hours on level 78 rather

summary: I very nearly agree with you. I just disagree on nuance and details.

 
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I pretty much agree too. It’s not a horrible game, it’s just not as good as either of the others. I did finish, but I spent an awful lot of that playtime bored, and just mindlessly going through the motions.

Some of the problems like armor should be pretty easy to rebalance. Just give creeps more armor. Problem solved. The concept still works, the numbers just need to be tweaked. Mana shards are a decent idea, but they should be generally moved to the earlier stages of the game and turned into something that makes the early stages easier for beginners, rather than simply giving us huge amounts of free mana when we no longer need it.

Other things…I’m not sure how to solve. Yesterday I played a GC:0 map, and as expected it was a lot more involved. Labyrinth has a lot of features that make sense, but diminish gameplay. For example, being able to do things while paused, and being able duplicate gems. Yes, it’s very convenient. But it totally robs the game of the intensity and need to “rush” that chapter zero has. The changes to angering and scoring do this too. Labyrinth provides no incentive to hurry, no benefit to angering early waves rather than later waves, and very little benefit for doing well. In chapter zero we could watch our points as we played, and every extra gembomb we angered with gave us more score. In Labyrinth, angering is a gimmicky afterthought. Something we do after we’re already established, just enough to get the multiplier we want, and then forget about. Just like building 10 towers/5 amps/4 shrines at the end of every map. It’s pretty dumb in comparison that Labyrinth rewards us mor for doing such trivial, mindless things like this than it does if we spend hours tinkering to find out exactly how much angering we can handle, like we did in chapter zero.

Removing supergemming was also a mistake. Supergemming should have somehow been expanded on, made more complicated, but remained completely valid as an “advanced” strategy. In GC:0, making one single supergem in a single trap took more effort than every gem, tower and amp combined in a typical Labyrinth map. Which is not to say that I simply want to be pressing more keys…but let’s think about this: interface improvements, while convenient, do detract from the game if the game becomes easier to beat with less actual player involvement. Spending hours combining gems was painful on the wrists, but going from the frantic, constant action of making supergems to Labyrinth’s slow pace of upgrading gems 2-3 times per minute while constantly pressing N to make waves hurry up is not an improvement. I don’t want to watch the game, I want to play it.

So yes…there are some problems that can be easily solved with some balance tweaking. But there are also some fundamental changes to core mechanics that make the game less fun.

 
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Originally posted by LordBucket:

Labyrinth provides no incentive to hurry, no benefit to angering early waves rather than later waves, and very little benefit for doing well.

It has some benefits in endurance run. By angering early waves, you gain a lot more mana. Sure, you don’t necessarily need it (especially due to HP cap, you can make good enough gem to kill HP capped monsters way earlier than they actually cap), but it does make things a bit faster.

And, of course, if you want challenge, you can anger those HP capped monsters and try to kill them ;)

 
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I’d like seeing armor level in “armored only” gradually raise every 8-15 waves, depending on the mode maybe, or flag “monsters get tougher faster”. Also the same for “monsters have extra armor”, maybe with less impact. Say, 9 waves for armored-only and 15 for extra armor, this will result in first waves (1-8) to have “normal armored” plus 1 layer of armor – the “layer” is the same effect as one summon cast. Waves 9-14 should have 2 layers above normal, waves 15-17 three layers, etc etc, with this wave #1337 will have 148+89=237 more layers of armor, this will make it have 1.25^237=9.28e22 times more armor than base values – so this will mean that there WILL be the end of the endurance. (Or maybe 1 more layer, so what, 1.2e23, anyway impenetrable :)) This will revive purple, release the 71 multiplier scores, will actually alter several of the strategies, since you will either suffer from inability to whack this much armor early, or lose a heavy chunk of multiplier prior to the start of battle.

Maybe it will be good to allow a summon+endurance multiplier to exist over there, but then first GiaB will have to prevent people of actually winning endurance :)

LordBucket, what effort about a supergem you speak of? The one that does 1m damage tops in a trap? OH YES, but do you have this much pleasure in combining gems with a macro for 24 hours straight? And, does this mean that even a high-grade supergemming does not work?

The main need to rush was because of the supergemming to be done in the smallest time amount possible, and because it actually worked. You needed to rush because lower waves gave more score boost possible without overangering, and with full set of R/Y/L traps running and mana flowing in a screen in 4-5 frames you actually could overanger only if the HP per monster pass the HP of #227, mainly because of the macros that do all the dirty work. Gem duplicating eliminated the need of macros and dirty work, and all of a sudden the game becomes devoid of actions, and even those that remain are just done while paused. This is a turn from frantic gameplay, the absolute neseccity of tremendous lag to squeeze as much actions as possible while the engine processes the next frame to get advantage against the in-game clock towards more pre-planned maze layout and more precise timing of angers should you do. So far the only level that needs angering is the pylon set, endurances need only as much, but this can be altered with balance adjustments. I’ll probably send Peter a message about armor tweaks, lime/yellow/orange alterations (as L/O also grows above the mana spent, it’s imbalancing) and other stuff that starts to take form in my inflamed mind :) so both sides of game players, both extreme and “casual” people will have a fair share of a challenge of their own level of difficulty.

 
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Well, I took some time off from slogging through levels and did a crude strategic analysis of the game and that’s gotten me a little more interested. I’m going to post what Iv’e come up with in another thread becuaase it’s a bit extensive and I think the feedback good players give on some of my ideas will be helpful to me and other sort of confused people.

thanks for the intersting replies.

 
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Originally posted by HHSHornet:

Well, I took some time off from slogging through levels and did a crude strategic analysis of the game and that’s gotten me a little more interested. I’m going to post what Iv’e come up with in another thread becuaase it’s a bit extensive and I think the feedback good players give on some of my ideas will be helpful to me and other sort of confused people.

thanks for the intersting replies.

i was about to say that!!!