Why is there a limit to monster HP?

22 posts

Flag Post

I was appalled that it happened to me.

There I am, having the best game of my life – I am actually getting ahead of the mobs, and gathering insane amounts of mana. My gem is about level 20, and able to bring down monsters with millions of HP in a matter of seconds. I am gaining about 1 million mana/second, thinking I can do this.

Then, it hits me around wave 200 using generally hard settings (everything on hardest, no extra armor, no extra-difficult waves). The enemies reach 3.3 billion HP and never get harder.

I killed about 20-30 extra waves just to check, but after that, it never moves. I can use gems to bomb them for extra HP, but that is it.

My game has no real purpose, other than to leave it running, while I gain level ups and continue to beat the same type of waves, over and over again.

What is the point of the game if there is a cap? As far as I saw, there was no cap on my gems (ended up with a level 22 which is very tedious to get, given that your Mana extension is so slow as it was only increasing about 5,000 per level up, and costing millions of Mana by the end)

Any ideas?

 
Flag Post

It may be a limitation in the actual code of the game, not a hard cap imposed by the developer.

 
Flag Post

Odd. I can certainly go over the 3.3 billion limit far beyond with bombs.

I ended up killing myself on the level by summoning 1,700 monsters with 4 trillion HP each in a wave.

 
Flag Post

Considering that you can increase the HP of monsters with gem bombs past the cap, I imagine that it was a design decision, but I can’t say for certain as I’m obviously not the developer.
It’s worth noting at least that the cap is increased with the “Monsters Getting Stronger Faster” setting in place: without it, the limit is 3,333,333,333 hit points; with it, you’ll see creeps with 9,999,999,999,999 health.
Bombing monsters CAN continue to add challenge to your game, but the obvious downside to that is that it’s calculated by the player as opposed to imposed (included, even) by the game.

 
Flag Post

Are there any other caps to the game?

I mean, it would be a terrible exploit if I would just leave my game on overnight, letting it build up ghastly multipliers in endurance when its become obvious I cannot lose.

 
Flag Post

Any other caps? The only one that leaps to mind is a lower cap of 1.00x and upper cap of 50.00x summon multipliers on pylon levels; in older versions of the game there was basically an exploit that allowed you to get a summon multiplier well into the thousands (and probably higher) on epic fields, so the 50x limit was implemented to prevent that, although you can still cheese that number without doing the actual work for it.

But yeah, w/r/t endurance…it’s really only an endurance to build a gem that can take out monsters at the HP cap (assuming your kill gem is a L/Y or L/Y/X, you’ll typically want a grade 20 for the regular cap or 30 for the MGSF cap, although this isn’t taking Resonance into consideration). Once you reach that point, it’s easiest just to click through all of the waves/leave a stack of pennies or something on your ‘n’ key.

 
Flag Post

I thought you would need up to 23 for Higher monster armor as it should deal enough damage to get past the 100M armor.

Oh and it is possible to kill the major angered summons but only if your main tower can actually deal damage (meaning don’t buff the monster armor past the damage range of your tower). Pretty much you would need shrines and snares for this.

 
Flag Post

Peter said that without cap monsters will hit INFINITY hp and became immortal.

 
Flag Post

At that point, you’ve won the game already and/or broken it to hell and back.

Wallow in your success instead of being a greedy munchkin.

 
Flag Post

you cannot leave the game overnight and ‘exploit’ endurance mode as it ends at wave 1337, no one said it would be infinite, the cap of 3.3 billion HP is to prevent endurance mode from being too hard to beat, if you find it too easy, turn some additional difficulties on, especially ‘monsters get harder faster’ it makes the max HP of mobs to 9 trillion and doubles your endurance multiplier, you get 73x if you beat wave 1337 normally and 146x if you beat with ‘monsters get harder faster’ you get several hundred lvl ups but not nearly as many as you’d expect from doing this

 
Flag Post

And again.
Developer said that monsters became immortal without hard cap.
It’s Flash limitations.

 
Flag Post

Plus, you’d probably start encountering some problems with floating point calculations when monster HP reaches absurdly high levels.

Prior to the Shrine nerf, a G19 on Premium would be able to reduce 101% of monster HP, which in effect reduces every monster in it’s range to 1 HP. On an Endurance run, I bombed wave 1337 to 4000 monsters for kicks and prepared two G19s to bring them all down to 1 HP. Dropped first one into a Shrine – no HP reduction, only 20 monsters killed, the rest of the Bolts, when hit, generated the clicking when armor is too high to do damage. Second one, same deal. After I had thrown various gems between G13 and G15 had I reduced enough HP so that a third G19 was actually able to bring down the remaining 3960 monsters to 1 HP and finish them. Culprit was most likely floating point arithmetic errors.

 
Flag Post
Originally posted by Gremlion:

And again.
Developer said that monsters became immortal without hard cap.
It’s Flash limitations.

Without a hard cap, in theory monster HP would rise to 1.798*10^308 at which point it would loop to negatives.

 
Flag Post

I think I saw a post somewhere the the 3.3 Billion cap was left in the game ‘accidentally’ in the first release and simple just remained as is over the time. Although that is through that with the current rate of increase the monsters would exceed the available range. On the other hand with the current 3.3B endurance mode is not a challenge, just a trivial time dependency. And if someone is passionate enough there is still room to anger the monsters after 2xx waves that can make the game a bit challenging. Nonetheless, the current HP cap + the ridiculously low armor does not make endurance challenging at all even if you turn on all the multipliers. Well, 10x HP spice it up a little bit.. but it is still not enough

 
Flag Post
Originally posted by trebach:
Originally posted by Gremlion:

And again.
Developer said that monsters became immortal without hard cap.
It’s Flash limitations.

Without a hard cap, in theory monster HP would rise to 1.798*10^308 at which point it would loop to negatives.

Floats and doubles don’t overflow to negatives like integers do. They turn into positive infinity.

 
Flag Post
Originally posted by Celaeris:
Originally posted by trebach:
Originally posted by Gremlion:

And again.
Developer said that monsters became immortal without hard cap.
It’s Flash limitations.

Without a hard cap, in theory monster HP would rise to 1.798*10^308 at which point it would loop to negatives.

Floats and doubles don’t overflow to negatives like integers do. They turn into positive infinity.

Regardless, he has the cap right, as long as the developer has the health as a “Number.” Last I checked 1.79769313486231e+308 was far more then 9,999,999,999,999. Even if this wasn’t the case, you could easily fix it by expressing monster health after a certain point in terms of two or more numbers, or even a byte array.

 
Flag Post

Hp Cap = no point in making a gem beyond grade 21

 
Flag Post

Highest cap -10 trillions.
It need gems around 29-30 grade.
(29 grade +8 28 in amplifiers works for me. Seems, can decrease)

 
Flag Post

Regardless, he has the cap right, as long as the developer has the health as a “Number.” Last I checked 1.79769313486231e+308 was far more then 9,999,999,999,999. Even if this wasn’t the case, you could easily fix it by expressing monster health after a certain point in terms of two or more numbers, or even a byte array.

Basically we don’t know what formulas the game uses to generate the monsters attributes. Probably one of them causes these ‘Infinity’-troubles.
I’m sure the summoning formula is very different from the ‘generation’ formulas.
Peter played and tested enough the game to know what is right in the engine, so try to just accept it.

 
Flag Post

I’m personally nowhere near the cap, so it’s cool with me for now :P

I’m just saying, it’s easily surmountable with a little tweaking.

 
Flag Post

yes, he could change it, but he doesn’t really like to change core-mechanisms after releasing.
changing these formulas has high risks of new bugs/problems appearing and could ruin more/many concepts the players worked out.

probably gc2 will be perfect ;-)

 
Flag Post

When people say that the hp cap is 9,999,999,999,999 for WGTF, are they including the bonus from the extra hp battle settings? Also people, the hp cap is a soft cap, not a hard cap, because it can be exceeded by summoning. And this is also proof that you are wrong, Sellyme, because if it was a limit in the code of the game, you wouldn’t be able to exceed it and the cap is >3000x the original cap with WGTF.