Collabs: Noob Pro Relationship and my solution

I wasn’t sure if this belonged just in Collabs or if it would work here too. It’s here just to be safe.

So, there was a pretty big topic on Collabs talking about the number of newer programmers on Kongregate and how much harder collaberating was due to their vast numbers. Many of these ‘programmers’ in fact wanted to do nothing at all and wait for a programmer to siphon the game from the newbie’s mind.

Well, that’s no good.

And then there are the noob programmers that actually want to accomplish something, but have no idea how to start. They would like to jump right in to a collab, but due to their limited skills, they feel as though they are of little help and end up quitting or not getting in at all.

And that’s worse.

My idea to solve this would be something of an apprenenceship. A noob serious about getting better could basiclly piggyback on a programmer with experience on the pro’s projects. The noob could start of small, doing proofreading and getting a feel for how the code for a game should look, and eventually graduate to small programming projects, eventually taking over a repetitive programming task. After the project, not only would the noob be a better programmer, he’d be a better collaberator with team experience and an some code in a real game to call their own. The idea is with every game the noob works just a little more each time until the noob aint so noobish anymore. Now you’d have 2 self sustaining programmers, ready to take up 2 more noobs. Any noobs with no drive would fall out pretty quickly or just get kicked out by a fusterated programmer. In time, this system could make Kongregate’s collab forums a place one could seriously look for a team ready to go for the long haul, since they’ve done it so many times before.

The only problem with this would be finding programmers willing to trust a noob with their code, but programmers are wiley creatures and I’m sure they could think of a way to keep the good code safe from an overly novice hand.

What do you guys think? sound like a good idea? Or am I just another person dreaming of an internet full of pros and hard workers?

I actually posted this a day ago. I just want to see if I’d get more input from this forum.

What’s in it for the pro?

Well, its a good idea.
The problem is to get it work. There need to be some kind of good system to accomplish this.
To begin with the Collabs forum needs to be reorganized to better fit this change, cause its not working as it is now.

starfiregold: You will get a better Collabs.

I think that though the idea is good in theory, not many good programmers will want to sign up because most of the ‘noobs’ plaguing the collabs forums are just script kiddies with the ‘copy – paste’ mentality.

The only way i could see it really working was if the experienced programmer would provide intentionally broken code (that does simple things), and the noob would have to fix it by themselves, learning how things work in the process.

The only thing is… then there would be no point of the experienced programmer at all as long as one person set up the ‘challenges’ somewhere where people could easily access them

Or good programmers could charge a small fee, thus weeding out the un-determined and earning a small profit.

Successful programmer do offer out apprenticeships, but no one wants to take on someone who knows nothing. My advice is to learn things on your own, consult the various places there are for the help you need to get started, but you NEED to put forth the effort on your own first.

I like the idea but this place just doesn’t seem comitted enough to want to provide the appropriate resources needed for an intricate collaborative network to start up – No, it’s not enough to just throw us a forum that’s got less features than my 10 year old tamagochi.

Anyone looking to get into programming should quite simply look around on the internet for tutorials in ActionScript 3 – that’s what I did, now I’m writing my own flash game, albeit a very crap one, but still!

Google Michael James Williams and look for his AvoiderGame tutorials if you can’t find out where to start.

Blank_64 had a good idea, maybe create a series of broken code pieces that gets increasingly harder to solve, and the result could then be a useful function or something that the noobs could use in their own game?
And then they can advance through the “challenges” and after a few they only get small pieces and need to input more and more code themselves?

I completely agree, I’m a “noob” coder with only a few months experience and would love a “pro” to help me on the things i get stuck on in a way that isn’t just giving me the code but i still need to figure some if not most of it out myself. It would make the learning process easier while still actually learning instead of just copy-pasting code from peoples tutorials where it’s handed to you without any thinking involved.

Not that i don’t think tutorials are great and that the coders that made them are helping us “noobs” out, but i think this way would be like “tutorial+”. I’m sure if a few pros sat down and wrote a few broken FLAs and .as files from beginner to intermediate they could be a permanent reference for people like me to use and learn from. There would only need to be one set for everyone to use, for the beginner ones anyway.

There can still be mentors, but maybe “global” ones that anyone can ask.
I don’t have time to write any code, but i can maybe be a mentor.

I could do something for as2 basics (for/while loops, creating functions, variables, if statements, ect…) if anyone wanted, however most people probably want as3.

Well, maybe i can get the time to translate it to AS3. But in that case i need the complete code and the broken one.
I wonder if we could get a moderator to make a sticky of those when they are ready.
Anyone listening!?! : p

How about starting with simple problems to solve(e.g Lab 1) such as making text appear on the screen, and then moving into more detailed/harder labs. Adding text formatting would be(Lab 1B). The *pro*grammer would just be to assist the apprentice and give aid when errors occured.

I’m actually really liking these ideas! If we could get some programmers to put them into action, I’d advertise this like there’s no tomorrow!

Anyone willing to start outlining the “challange”?
I guess 10-15 different small challenges will be a good start.
If one person can do the outlining, its quick work for some experienced programmers to share the load of the coding.
I might find some spare time to help out a bit with the coding.

Will this be focused only on teaching people how to use ActionScript(aka..no art, or other techniques)? If so, I suggest a common base of AS3. It leads to better habits, and is easier to convert to other languages and vice versa.

Well, that depends on what you mean with “no art, or other techniques”?
I also think AS3 is the best, cause its more like other object oriented languages than AS2.

Does anyone have any suggestions with what to start?
I think its best to start with the Drawing API…

Join a university for a game design/development degree.

What does that have to do with anything?

Unknown: Sounds like a plan

Simple one then. Spot the error:

private function toFahrenheit(celsius:String):Number{

    return (1.8 * celsius) + 32;

}

No error. Flash converts types automatically in expressions.

Turn strict mode back on and you’ll stop letting mistakes like this through. Hey, you’ve learnt something already.

I’ve had strict mode on since I started learning AS3, may take a little bit more time, but at least I won’t encounter any weird problems.. may save time in the end, not having to figure out why something isn’t working properly.

Anyways, this idea sounds great in my opinion. I’m still learning and sometimes when I can’t figure out how to do something, it can be hard to get motivated again; having somebody to help me out with things, and letting me view some of their code to see how they do things would be incredibly beneficial.

The only way i could see it really working was if the experienced programmer would provide intentionally broken code (that does simple things), and the noob would have to fix it by themselves, learning how things work in the process.

Some intentionally broken code: (and a little bit harder than rarapompoms’ code)

var myShape:Shape = new Shape();
with(myShape.graphics) {
	beginFill(0xff, 1.0);
	drawCircle(50,50,50);
	endFill();
}
myShape.x = 100;
myShape.y = 100;
addChild(myShape);
function removeShape(event:MouseEvent):void {
	removeChild(myShape);
	myShape.removeEventListener(MouseEvent.CLICK, removeShape);
}
myShape.addEventListener(MouseEvent.CLICK, removeShape);

This should (but doesn’t) create a blue circle that disappears when you click on it.
There is one line that’s wrong.

If you’re stuck, be sure to check out the official AS3 documentation then.

The answer is here