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> *Originally posted by **[Lotr99](/forums/8945/topics/1628696?page=49#12859190)**:*
> > *Originally posted by **[rellikrellik](/forums/8945/topics/1628696?page=49#12858755)**:*
> > > *Originally posted by **[bb420777](/forums/8945/topics/1628696?page=49#12858704)**:*
> > > I just spent like 2+ months in R124 grinding lineages (Fairy and Dragon and L40, Angel, Undead and Elf at L35) then decided to climb some Rs.
> > > It took 2 weeks to do R125, about 9-10days were spent buffing s400(2.5M) and I used Angeline Elfs to finish off and get to R126.
> > >
> > > What's the current strat for pushing Rs past 125?
> > > Are long s400 buff runs still required for gaining gems past e70?
> >
> > Dragonline Undead are also viable for pushing gems in the current endgame, though around R125 and up Elves can probably finish Rs faster including the time it takes to buff S400.
>
> Hmm, this is good to know. My plan was to rush to R125, set up camp at end gems and grind out lineages to lvl 40.
> Unless you guys think the new content will be released above R125.....
There's a bit of speculation going on, but I think R125 is probably where the new content will start. It falls in line with all of the upgrades being purchasable at the end of R123/124, so the new upgrades will have costs to spring off of that, and the gem walls start to drag out at R124+.
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What will be the requirements for a faction to be better than goblin for buffing S400? You'll need 20x-80x more mana regen and max mana to accomodate?
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> *Originally posted by **[Marcell1992](/forums/8945/topics/1628696?page=50#12859922)**:*
> What will be the requirements for a faction to be better than goblin for buffing S400? You'll need 20x-80x more mana regen and max mana to accomodate?
Goblins have three key advantages for S400 buffing: S50, which can multiply spells cast by up to around 250x with DL40, Drow/Balance Union, which multiplies max mana by 8x-10x (it's 800% at 67.2e12 casts), and their ability to mana waste fairly easily with Dragon Lineage.
For a faction to be better than Droblins at buffing S400 they'd need a total spells multiplier of more than around 2300x. This could come from a spell cost reductions, higher max mana and regeneration, some direct spells multiplication like S50 and possibly some "spells cast this game count more based on [ ]" type of upgrade added in the future.
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> *Originally posted by **[rellikrellik](/forums/8945/topics/1628696?page=50#12859948)**:*
> > *Originally posted by **[Marcell1992](/forums/8945/topics/1628696?page=50#12859922)**:*
> > What will be the requirements for a faction to be better than goblin for buffing S400? You'll need 20x-80x more mana regen and max mana to accomodate?
>
> Goblins have three key advantages for S400 buffing: S50, which can multiply spells cast by up to around 250x with DL40, Drow/Balance Union, which multiplies max mana by 8x-10x (it's 800% at 67.2e12 casts), and their ability to mana waste fairly easily with Dragon Lineage.
>
> For a faction to be better than Droblins at buffing S400 they'd need a total spells multiplier of more than around 2300x. This could come from a spell cost reductions, higher max mana and regeneration, some direct spells multiplication like S50 and possibly some "spells cast this game count more based on [ ]" type of upgrade added in the future.
That's way ahead in my future. I'm at R111 DL25
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Re: Getting GB11 for Fairyline Druids, doing an Elfline Druid run around ~e52 shows potential. Elfline gives high max mana via C3100 and W1400, and Druids get enough mana regen via AotC and Shapeshifting that reaching mana waste is trivial. And since it's Druids, time spent still contributes 100% to Uniformity.
This is the build I'm using, but I haven't tried to optimise it yet:
```
Faction: Druid/Dragon
Bloodline: Elf
Artifact Set: Dragon
S1450,S3200,
C300,C1300,C3100,
D245,D275,D1125,
E260,E1225,E1425,
A120,A251,A375,A1200,A1500,
W350,W1375,W1400```
Within a few minutes it can reach 1.3e7 max mana and mana waste. It will still take ~8 hours to reach GB11 at this rate, but that's better than the 26 or so Fairyline Druids required.
If Uniformity isn't a concern, Facelessline Titans is even faster.
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Nice wlerin, can it also make a tiny bit of gems or is it just rushing GB11? Either way that is a nice find. I also wonder how early it can start (improving its max mana reach run).
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> *Originally posted by **[OldYouth](/forums/8945/topics/1628696?page=50#12860436)**:*
> Nice wlerin, can it also make a tiny bit of gems or is it just rushing GB11? Either way that is a nice find. I also wonder how early it can start (improving its max mana reach run).
It does make gems eventually, but Fairyline is faster in that regard, and even for mana I'm not sure it's actually better than running Dragonline Undead for the same length of time. Testing them both side by side, and it's looking like Undead will reach GB11 first despite Druid's significant early lead.
After 4 hours, starting from 3.14e52 gems:
Undead -- 2.32e52 gems, 1.636e11 mana produced, 2.079e7 max mana
Druid -- 1.835e53 gems, 1.96e11 mana produced, 1.448e7 max mana
Undead would have more mana produced if I'd bought SS7 as soon as it was available.
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I have finished my R120+ AC2 Droblin S400 test.
**5d2h for 2e6 S400**
6d40m for Spellmaster
I found spellcasts increasing at roughly:
**Trillions of spells = 0.05 (Hours - 4) ^ 1.4**
(more accurate formula and data in the link)
http://www.kongregate.com/forums/8945-realm-grinder/topics/1740799-r120-s400-test
> *Originally posted by **[wlerin](/forums/8945/topics/1628696?page=50#12860486)**:*
> It does make gems eventually, but Fairyline is faster in that regard, and even for mana I'm not sure it's actually better than running Dragonline Undead for the same length of time. Testing them both side by side, and it's looking like Undead will reach GB11 first despite Druid's significant early lead.
I guess it will depend on if you need more Druid, Undead, or Titan time that R.
Undead time when speed to GB11 matters.
Druid time when you will have plenty of Undead time later.
Titan time as a possible answer once we start using S400?
Currently lacking in Neutral, Order, and Chaos time so might add a bit more Faceless and Titan to the earlygame in future Rs.
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> *Originally posted by **[wlerin](/forums/8945/topics/1628696?page=50#12860285)**:*
> Re: Getting GB11 for Fairyline Druids, doing an Elfline Druid run around ~e52 shows potential. Elfline gives high max mana via C3100 and W1400, and Druids get enough mana regen via AotC and Shapeshifting that reaching mana waste is trivial. And since it's Druids, time spent still contributes 100% to Uniformity.
>
> This is the build I'm using, but I haven't tried to optimise it yet:
> ```
> Faction: Druid/Dragon
> Bloodline: Elf
> Artifact Set: Dragon
> S1450,S3200,
> C300,C1300,C3100,
> D245,D275,D1125,
> E260,E1225,E1425,
> A120,A251,A375,A1200,A1500,
> W350,W1375,W1400```
>
> Within a few minutes it can reach 1.3e7 max mana and mana waste. It will still take ~8 hours to reach GB11 at this rate, but that's better than the 26 or so Fairyline Druids required.
>
>
> If Uniformity isn't a concern, Facelessline Titans is even faster.
I thought everybody were using that to get GB11. I am surprised that nobody thought of that.
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> *Originally posted by **[jgchan29](/forums/8945/topics/1628696?page=45#12834302)**:*
> > *Originally posted by **[jgchan29](/forums/8945/topics/1628696?page=45#12831183)**:*
> > A suggestion for the Goblin Leveler build. For high-level lineaging, once you have all your AHs and have pushed Fairyline for Heirloom discount, could it be viable to swap A120->A400 for Dragonline and Facelessline?
>
> Following up on this, tested Facelessline with A400, and the substitution is also possible with e69 gems, as with Dragonline. The caveat is that without either A120 or W205, early setup (Drow Union, Faceless AH) slows down tremendously. It may be possible given many hours, but in this case swapping C250->C400 will let you get them in 30 minutes or so, due to starting higher. C250 will start catching up again once you get going though, so not sure if the trade of C250/A120 for C400/A400 will be worth it in the long term.
>
> I would test this myself, but I'm not sure if I'll reach Facelessline leveling before the new update hits. >.>
So actually, I did end up getting back to Facelessline's turn. ;)
C250/A400/W1375 is proving usable at e70 gems; it starts off quite slow, but picks up speed not long after, and got Drow Union in 36 minutes. SF:Assistants helps in this regard, as assistants are low before DW10.
After that, Droblins temporarily becomes an NU build as we head for Faceless AH, which is gotten at the 76 minute mark. Everything else follows pretty quickly afterwards, with AC2 gotten at 1h 42 minutes, completing setup.
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So not sure if its been answered in this topic, but does anyone know why the production in Undeadline Faceless in the R116+ is so random? I am looking at all the different variables, but I can't figure it out. It randomly jumps around from generating a little to a lot, and the time frame is different. Sometimes its for like 10 seconds, and sometimes its for a minute. I am just curious, don't know if I can manipulate it somehow because of spells or I can know when to stop the run. And I know its not the assistants jump with faceless union, because sometimes it happens with the lower end of the increase. Like the biggest jump was with the least amount of assistants I could have in the run because of the faceless union.
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> *Originally posted by **[trainman61](/forums/8945/topics/1628696?page=50#12863196)**:*
> So not sure if its been answered in this topic, but does anyone know why the production in Undeadline Faceless in the R116+ is so random? I am looking at all the different variables, but I can't figure it out. It randomly jumps around from generating a little to a lot, and the time frame is different. Sometimes its for like 10 seconds, and sometimes its for a minute. I am just curious, don't know if I can manipulate it somehow because of spells or I can know when to stop the run. And I know its not the assistants jump with faceless union, because sometimes it happens with the lower end of the increase. Like the biggest jump was with the least amount of assistants I could have in the run because of the faceless union.
Dragon Chaos Union + FC10
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> *Originally posted by **[trainman61](/forums/8945/topics/1628696?page=50#12863196)**:*
> So not sure if its been answered in this topic, but does anyone know why the production in Undeadline Faceless in the R116+ is so random? I am looking at all the different variables, but I can't figure it out. It randomly jumps around from generating a little to a lot, and the time frame is different. Sometimes its for like 10 seconds, and sometimes its for a minute. I am just curious, don't know if I can manipulate it somehow because of spells or I can know when to stop the run. And I know its not the assistants jump with faceless union, because sometimes it happens with the lower end of the increase. Like the biggest jump was with the least amount of assistants I could have in the run because of the faceless union.
If it's on R116+, then it's Dragon Chaos Union. Since its target is based on FC Find Chance, cycling FC10 and other factors will make it switch from Unique Buildings to Non-Uniques at odd intervals. Marginally controllable if you have Druid AH, or you can somewhat lock it onto one target or the other by avoiding buying FC10. Either way, it takes lots of attention, on top of playing with Maelstrom targets as well.
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I have a question about Lazy Rider (S400 buff build): why second bloodline is dragon? i tried the same setup with druids, it gave way more mp regen
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> *Originally posted by **[DarthBeliar](/forums/8945/topics/1628696?page=50#12867547)**:*
> I have a question about Lazy Rider (S400 buff build): why second bloodline is dragon? i tried the same setup with druids, it gave way more mp regen
If you have Dragon L32 then A2950:Dragon is a 4.84x buff to S50. Also note from GOOF's: "Notes: Takes some time to reach mana waste, based on C305 growth. Maintaining x2 blue breath will be benefitial, but not necessary. "
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> *Originally posted by **[DarthBeliar](/forums/8945/topics/1628696?page=50#12867547)**:*
> I have a question about Lazy Rider (S400 buff build): why second bloodline is dragon? i tried the same setup with druids, it gave way more mp regen
S50 multiplies your spell casts by a significant number, and dragon bloodline increases the number of buildings upon which it's based. So even at higher mp regen, you're still getting more spellcasts this way.
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I am trying to get to R125 so that i have as much time there as possible before the new update hits, and i was wondering: what's a high enough S400 for the Angelline Elf build to carry me to R gems on R124?
I currently have 7.8e61 gems - i'm in an S400 run (current S400: 1.057e6), Uniformity around 2K%, and i could abdicate now and have 6.5e62 gems.
(I am about a day away from Dragon L34 too.)
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> *Originally posted by **[metrazol](/forums/8945/topics/1628696?page=50#12869132)**:*
> I am trying to get to R125 so that i have as much time there as possible before the new update hits, and i was wondering: what's a high enough S400 for the Angelline Elf build to carry me to R gems on R124?
>
> I currently have 7.8e61 gems - i'm in an S400 run (current S400: 1.057e6), Uniformity around 2K%, and i could abdicate now and have 6.5e62 gems.
> (I am about a day away from Dragon L34 too.)
S400 needs to be about 2e6 for Angelline Elf to be definitely stronger than Dragonline Undead.
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> *Originally posted by **[rellikrellik](/forums/8945/topics/1628696?page=50#12869203)**:*
> > *Originally posted by **[metrazol](/forums/8945/topics/1628696?page=50#12869132)**:*
> > I am trying to get to R125 so that i have as much time there as possible before the new update hits, and i was wondering: what's a high enough S400 for the Angelline Elf build to carry me to R gems on R124?
> >
> > I currently have 7.8e61 gems - i'm in an S400 run (current S400: 1.057e6), Uniformity around 2K%, and i could abdicate now and have 6.5e62 gems.
> > (I am about a day away from Dragon L34 too.)
>
> S400 needs to be about 2e6 for Angelline Elf to be definitely stronger than Dragonline Undead.
Thanks.
So if i wanted to get a decent S400 and then use Angelline Elf, then i'm what 1week+ away from S125?
If i quit the current run and started doing 2-3 days long Undead runs, that would take me there in the same amount of time too, right?
Which option do you guys think would be faster?
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> *Originally posted by **[metrazol](/forums/8945/topics/1628696?page=50#12869303)**:*
> > *Originally posted by **[rellikrellik](/forums/8945/topics/1628696?page=50#12869203)**:*
> > > *Originally posted by **[metrazol](/forums/8945/topics/1628696?page=50#12869132)**:*
> > > I am trying to get to R125 so that i have as much time there as possible before the new update hits, and i was wondering: what's a high enough S400 for the Angelline Elf build to carry me to R gems on R124?
> > >
> > > I currently have 7.8e61 gems - i'm in an S400 run (current S400: 1.057e6), Uniformity around 2K%, and i could abdicate now and have 6.5e62 gems.
> > > (I am about a day away from Dragon L34 too.)
> >
> > S400 needs to be about 2e6 for Angelline Elf to be definitely stronger than Dragonline Undead.
>
> Thanks.
>
> So if i wanted to get a decent S400 and then use Angelline Elf, then i'm what 1week+ away from S125?
> If i quit the current run and started doing 2-3 days long Undead runs, that would take me there in the same amount of time too, right?
>
> Which option do you guys think would be faster?
I think Elves would be more satisfying, but I don't know about speed
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I'm trying to finish up r126 and going with Angelline Elf for now (previous R's I used Dragonline Undead). How long should each Elf run take?
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> *Originally posted by **[metrazol](/forums/8945/topics/1628696?page=50#12869303)**:*
> > *Originally posted by **[rellikrellik](/forums/8945/topics/1628696?page=50#12869203)**:*
> > > *Originally posted by **[metrazol](/forums/8945/topics/1628696?page=50#12869132)**:*
> > > I am trying to get to R125 so that i have as much time there as possible before the new update hits, and i was wondering: what's a high enough S400 for the Angelline Elf build to carry me to R gems on R124?
> > >
> > > I currently have 7.8e61 gems - i'm in an S400 run (current S400: 1.057e6), Uniformity around 2K%, and i could abdicate now and have 6.5e62 gems.
> > > (I am about a day away from Dragon L34 too.)
> >
> > S400 needs to be about 2e6 for Angelline Elf to be definitely stronger than Dragonline Undead.
>
> Thanks.
>
> So if i wanted to get a decent S400 and then use Angelline Elf, then i'm what 1week+ away from S125?
> If i quit the current run and started doing 2-3 days long Undead runs, that would take me there in the same amount of time too, right?
>
> Which option do you guys think would be faster?
I'm doing the same thing you're doing, but I chose undead runs. Last one was from 3e66 to 5.6e68 and took around 3d16h to complete (don't know which sunforce power generates the most gems). I'm currently 4d4h into my current run and have 1.178e70 in my treasury. In fact for my last run I actually pushed further than I normally do because I was 10 hours from DL 32, and I think I'll reach DL 33 by the time I have enough gems to Reincarnate to R125.
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In the R110-R115 on not-a-wiki, I have no idea why S400 is in the faceless dragonline build:
S251,S375,S400,C340,D245,D260,E350,E1425,A250,A300,W275,W1375
I'm sure S215 is better, because there is no benefit to having more max mana in this build, where S215 gives me 51% more production.
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> *Originally posted by **[Marcell1992](/forums/8945/topics/1628696?page=50#12870709)**:*
> In the R110-R115 on not-a-wiki, I have no idea why S400 is in the faceless dragonline build:
> S251,S375,S400,C340,D245,D260,E350,E1425,A250,A300,W275,W1375
> I'm sure S215 is better, because there is no benefit to having more max mana in this build, where S215 gives me 51% more production.
If S400 gives you 51% more max mana it's at least as good as S215.
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> *Originally posted by **[metrazol](/forums/8945/topics/1628696?page=50#12869132)**:*
> I am trying to get to R125 so that i have as much time there as possible before the new update hits, and i was wondering: what's a high enough S400 for the Angelline Elf build to carry me to R gems on R124?
>
> I currently have 7.8e61 gems - i'm in an S400 run (current S400: 1.057e6), Uniformity around 2K%, and i could abdicate now and have 6.5e62 gems.
> (I am about a day away from Dragon L34 too.)
To avoid this question I decided to start lineage leveling at R124. Getting Spell Master with S400 run, then getting to R gems with elf, then using that S400 for lineages. This way no extra time (which I could spend on lineages) will be wasted on getting to R124 gems and when the update kicks in I will be able to jump to R125 right away. The only possible problem with this approach may appear if new factions unlock requires near-R gems at R125. If it requires e64 gems or below then it would be possible to get there under 3 days - enough time for other people to figure out the requirements and for me to plan the unlocking process :)
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