> *Originally posted by **[drkarat](/forums/8945/topics/1854510?page=1#13217274)**:* > > *Originally posted by **[somarilnos](/forums/8945/topics/1854510?page=1#13216405)**:* > > > > Yes. And also more annoying because you have to babysit the growth of spellcasts to build LW percentage. > > > > How do you babysit the growth of spellcasts? I think by "babysit the growth of spellcasts" he means to keep an active autoclicker resetting HB to cast it faster than just autocasting it can. While doing that certainly helps, it really isn't necessary. My last run of R151 took only 7h30m and got me from 5e127 to 2e129 gems and i didn't spam cast HB at all.

> *Originally posted by **[Giappo](/forums/8945/topics/1854510?page=1#13216227)**:* > I've been testing a bit after the 3.6.1 update and I found that there are, at the moment, better options than Archonline Faeries. > At the moment the best performing one in my tests is: > > **Angels Druidline Elfset** > S10, S400, S3200, > C25, C340, C400, C405, C520, > D1, D175, D290, D435, D590, D3350, > E135, E400, E410, > A50, A120, A400, A495, > W180, W225, W400, W560 > > Requires: Druid Lineage lvl 45 > I've been trying this from 1e118 gems onwards, I wonder if it works even at lower gems. Despite being Archon, the build seems to yield a nice gem improvement after relatively short times. However, I have the feeling that the build can still be improved, so feel free to give me your suggestions. > Peace! Just tried it at 2e92 gems It only took me a bit over 3m to get the Archon Treaty, after which it shot up to e95 real fast.

so which faction to buff excavations/resets with? -------- so i'm going with Angel/Maker-line/Elf-set ``` S10,C25,C405,C520,D1,D175,D435,D590,E410,A50,A495,W225,W560, S3200,C400,D3350,E400,A400,W180, S400,C340,D290,E290,A120,W1375, ``` which, according to my observations, perform slightly better than other versions. overall, it doesn't make a huge difference i believe.

> _Originally posted by **[geyik](/forums/8945/topics/1854510?page=2#13217769):**_ > so which faction to buff excavations/resets with? Can do a lot worse than Makerline Angels Dwarf Set, pretty much the same build as Dragonline Angels but E290 instead of E135.

> *Originally posted by **[metrazol](/forums/8945/topics/1854510?page=2#13217672)**:* > > *Originally posted by **[Giappo](/forums/8945/topics/1854510?page=1#13216227)**:* > > I've been testing a bit after the 3.6.1 update and I found that there are, at the moment, better options than Archonline Faeries. > > At the moment the best performing one in my tests is: > > > > **Angels Druidline Elfset** > > S10, S400, S3200, > > C25, C340, C400, C405, C520, > > D1, D175, D290, D435, D590, D3350, > > E135, E400, E410, > > A50, A120, A400, A495, > > W180, W225, W400, W560 > > > > Requires: Druid Lineage lvl 45 > > I've been trying this from 1e118 gems onwards, I wonder if it works even at lower gems. Despite being Archon, the build seems to yield a nice gem improvement after relatively short times. However, I have the feeling that the build can still be improved, so feel free to give me your suggestions. > > Peace! > > Just tried it at 2e92 gems > It only took me a bit over 3m to get the Archon Treaty, after which it shot up to e95 real fast. However it kind of slowed down a bit at e101 - by slowed down I mean that I am 31m in, but i'm still at least an hour or two away from having the FC to afford Makers Union. In a different tab i fired up a run with the build that OldYouth had in the 2nd post of this thread (Dragonline Dwarfset Angels) - got Makers Union only 2m 45s in, and i was at e106 only a minute later. Edit: By the time I am done with this post, i was able to afford the rest of the AHs as well, so after 5m 50s it was fully set up. 7m in I'm at 2.5e107 gems. The Druidline Elfset one is still only at 6.8e101. I think i'll stick with the Dragonline one for a couple more runs. (R149 atm)

Is there any good ideas for AR challenge 5? I've already have djinn and maker challenge 5 and used the old facelessline titan dragon set. I got only +3 slots from A400 and only have less than 1e14 Max mana. It is less than what I got before I have challenge 5 in 3.6. I think it will take very long to get 2e20 mana produced.

> *Originally posted by **[metrazol](/forums/8945/topics/1854510?page=2#13217885)**:* > Edit: By the time I am done with this post, i was able to afford the rest of the AHs as well, so after 5m 50s it was fully set up. 7m in I'm at 2.5e107 gems. > The Druidline Elfset one is still only at 6.8e101. I think i'll stick with the Dragonline one for a couple more runs. > (R149 atm) Dragonline Elfset (7K%) Angels with 3 Research Slots from 5d of Uniformity and 423% R108 is enough to get me to R gems in R152. I just did 1e131 => 3e132 out of 5e133.

> *Originally posted by **[OldYouth](/forums/8945/topics/1854510?page=2#13218116)**:* > > *Originally posted by **[metrazol](/forums/8945/topics/1854510?page=2#13217885)**:* > > Edit: By the time I am done with this post, i was able to afford the rest of the AHs as well, so after 5m 50s it was fully set up. 7m in I'm at 2.5e107 gems. > > The Druidline Elfset one is still only at 6.8e101. I think i'll stick with the Dragonline one for a couple more runs. > > (R149 atm) > > Dragonline Elfset (7K%) Angels with 3 Research Slots from 5d of Uniformity and 423% R108 is enough to get me to R gems in R152. I just did 1e131 => 3e132 out of 5e133. I don't think. that 3 Research Slot Angels will be necessary for the push to R153. I just got 6e119 -> 2.5e127 in a 19h Angelline Demon run. And this was with barely any micro management. The only thing I did was to push Hellfire Blast casts up a bit during the middle of the run and even that probably didn't do that much in the end. Also this is only 3 days into R150, so E230 and Demon Set will still grow a decent bit. At this rate R152 should take less than a week.

> *Originally posted by **[ensteffahn](/forums/8945/topics/1854510?page=2#13218253)**:* > I don't think. that 3 Research Slot Angels will be necessary for the push to R153. I just got 6e119 -> 2.5e127 in a 19h Angelline Demon run. And this was with barely any micro management. The only thing I did was to push Hellfire Blast casts up a bit during the middle of the run and even that probably didn't do that much in the end. Also this is only 3 days into R150, so E230 and Demon Set will still grow a decent bit. > At this rate R152 should take less than a week. Nice! I was mostly just providing the data that confirms the push to R153 is doable with quick runs. It is great to hear there is an even faster option.

> *Originally posted by **[somarilnos](/forums/8945/topics/1854510?page=1#13216273)**:* > Angelline Demon, Demonset > (Still in testing) > S435,S3200,C50,C340,D10,D560,D1375,E230,E400,E495,A25,A400,A410,W1,W175,W205,W405,W520,W590 > > Wait for Catalyst and LW to hit Gem Grinder and Trophies (can use realm weather service if needed) I was wondering why Gem Grinder, since as I understood the recent change, it is just additive now, and E400 is alot stronger with LW on trophies.

> > > *Originally posted by **[Giappo](/forums/8945/topics/1854510?page=1#13216227)**:* > > > I've been testing a bit after the 3.6.1 update and I found that there are, at the moment, better options than Archonline Faeries. > > > At the moment the best performing one in my tests is: > > > > > > **Angels Druidline Elfset** > > > S10, S400, S3200, > > > C25, C340, C400, C405, C520, > > > D1, D175, D290, D435, D590, D3350, > > > E135, E400, E410, > > > A50, A120, A400, A495, > > > W180, W225, W400, W560 > > > > > > Requires: Druid Lineage lvl 45 > > > I've been trying this from 1e118 gems onwards, I wonder if it works even at lower gems. Despite being Archon, the build seems to yield a nice gem improvement after relatively short times. However, I have the feeling that the build can still be improved, so feel free to give me your suggestions. > > > Peace! I am fairly sure D1375 beats D290, at least in shorter runs. D290 obviously facilitates a faster setup towards archon union, but the time to that point isn't very high regardless, I find. Regarding time to archon union, the build greatly benefits from a few hours shopping around to boost AR8.

> *Originally posted by **[boredom00](/forums/8945/topics/1854510?page=2#13218445)**:* > > I was wondering why Gem Grinder, since as I understood the recent change, it is just additive now, and E400 is alot stronger with LW on trophies. Gem grinder is multiplicative, Its just poorly tooltipped. You can tell by checking Gem value before and after casting it. > *Originally posted by **[Doubleshoe](/forums/8945/topics/1854510?page=2#13218459)**:* > I am fairly sure D1375 beats D290, at least in shorter runs. D290 obviously facilitates a faster setup towards archon union, but the time to that point isn't very high regardless, I find. Regarding time to archon union, the build greatly benefits from a few hours shopping around to boost AR8. I recommend D290 and D1375 - Even though D3350 provides a larger assistant boost, the max mana and assistants gained through A120 ends up slightly more powerful. This might be dependent on AR2 though, I didnt test that.

> *Originally posted by **[metrazol](/forums/8945/topics/1854510?page=2#13217885)**:* > > *Originally posted by **[metrazol](/forums/8945/topics/1854510?page=2#13217672)**:* > > > *Originally posted by **[Giappo](/forums/8945/topics/1854510?page=1#13216227)**:* > > > I've been testing a bit after the 3.6.1 update and I found that there are, at the moment, better options than Archonline Faeries. > > > At the moment the best performing one in my tests is: > > > > > > **Angels Druidline Elfset** > > > S10, S400, S3200, > > > C25, C340, C400, C405, C520, > > > D1, D175, D290, D435, D590, D3350, > > > E135, E400, E410, > > > A50, A120, A400, A495, > > > W180, W225, W400, W560 > > > > > > Requires: Druid Lineage lvl 45 > > > I've been trying this from 1e118 gems onwards, I wonder if it works even at lower gems. Despite being Archon, the build seems to yield a nice gem improvement after relatively short times. However, I have the feeling that the build can still be improved, so feel free to give me your suggestions. > > > Peace! > > > > Just tried it at 2e92 gems > > It only took me a bit over 3m to get the Archon Treaty, after which it shot up to e95 real fast. > > However it kind of slowed down a bit at e101 - by slowed down I mean that I am 31m in, but i'm still at least an hour or two away from having the FC to afford Makers Union. > In a different tab i fired up a run with the build that OldYouth had in the 2nd post of this thread (Dragonline Dwarfset Angels) - got Makers Union only 2m 45s in, and i was at e106 only a minute later. > > Edit: By the time I am done with this post, i was able to afford the rest of the AHs as well, so after 5m 50s it was fully set up. 7m in I'm at 2.5e107 gems. > The Druidline Elfset one is still only at 6.8e101. I think i'll stick with the Dragonline one for a couple more runs. > (R149 atm) I also noticed that many times Dragonline performs better. My feeling is that Druidline seems to scale better with accumulated buffs, such as Primal Balance or S400. Still trying to figure it out...

Is the 5 day Uniformity buff really worth it? You can make a lot of gems running Angels for that time, and the build has several upgrades that scale with time spent as Order this R.

In the end, has a "best" angelline demon build been decided yet ? I've begun trying them at R148, since after e120-121 gems, dragonline angels seem to slow down a lot without the appropriate buffing. The problem is, I'm really not sure whether I should get S3200 or S400 (with a ~650 000 value from some goblins), and W205 or W525 (the last one - that I took foor this run - is currently buffing my BF to around 100 000% after 12h, a little over x100 of the original production). For now I went from 7,5e121 to 3e123, which is nice, but I'm wondering if it could have been better ^^

> *Originally posted by **[Hoxzi](/forums/8945/topics/1854510?page=2#13218938)**:* > Is the 5 day Uniformity buff really worth it? You can make a lot of gems running Angels for that time, and the build has several upgrades that scale with time spent as Order this R. Archon challenge 4 gives a bonus based on time spent as *non*-Order this R. If you have 10 days spent as non-Order, you get 3 research slots right from the start, which is very convenient. 10 days spent as non-Order incidentally will get you a 5-day Uniformity if you manage it right.

> *Originally posted by **[LostPizzaGuy](/forums/8945/topics/1854510?page=2#13218943)**:* > In the end, has a "best" angelline demon build been decided yet ? > I've begun trying them at R148, since after e120-121 gems, dragonline angels seem to slow down a lot without the appropriate buffing. The problem is, I'm really not sure whether I should get S3200 or S400 (with a ~650 000 value from some goblins), and W205 or W525 (the last one - that I took foor this run - is currently buffing my BF to around 100 000% after 12h, a little over x100 of the original production). > For now I went from 7,5e121 to 3e123, which is nice, but I'm wondering if it could have been better ^^ S435,S3200,C50,C340,D10,D560,D1375,E230,E400,E495,A25,A400,A410,W1,W135,W175,W405,W520,W590 Pretty sure this is the best build. W135 can grow beyond 1e9, if you let it run for a while, which seems a lot better than the other Warfare options. At least it got me e119 -> e127 in 19 hours in R150, which is good enough for me.

> *Originally posted by **[ensteffahn](/forums/8945/topics/1854510?page=2#13218966)**:* > > *Originally posted by **[LostPizzaGuy](/forums/8945/topics/1854510?page=2#13218943)**:* > > In the end, has a "best" angelline demon build been decided yet ? > > I've begun trying them at R148, since after e120-121 gems, dragonline angels seem to slow down a lot without the appropriate buffing. The problem is, I'm really not sure whether I should get S3200 or S400 (with a ~650 000 value from some goblins), and W205 or W525 (the last one - that I took foor this run - is currently buffing my BF to around 100 000% after 12h, a little over x100 of the original production). > > For now I went from 7,5e121 to 3e123, which is nice, but I'm wondering if it could have been better ^^ > > S435,S3200,C50,C340,D10,D560,D1375,E230,E400,E495,A25,A400,A410,W1,W135,W175,W405,W520,W590 > > Pretty sure this is the best build. W135 can grow beyond 1e9, if you let it run for a while, which seems a lot better than the other Warfare options. At least it got me e119 -> e127 in 19 hours in R150, which is good enough for me. Oh yes, I went to check when I saw this post and it was at 7,7e8. I'm not on point when it comes to trophy based upgrades ^^ Seems to be a pretty good option, and it eliminates any S400 utility, nice.Thanks for pointing that out ! Then, wouldn't archonline demons be good again on the long term, giving access to all those tasty scaling W researches ?

> *Originally posted by **[Hoxzi](/forums/8945/topics/1854510?page=2#13218938)**:* > Is the 5 day Uniformity buff really worth it? You can make a lot of gems running Angels for that time, and the build has several upgrades that scale with time spent as Order this R. Not worth it. Angelline Demons are far better than Angels on long runs, so you shouldn't worry about buffing ARC4. My previous 15h Demon run made e116 -> e124, even +2 slot Angels don't seem to give that much. Also Demons buff ARC4 anyway. 12h-1d runs of S400 Goblins (to buff Angelline) and Elfline Faceless (to buff Elfset) seems enough for Uniformity and Angels stage. > *Originally posted by **[LostPizzaGuy](/forums/8945/topics/1854510?page=2#13218943)**:* > I'm really not sure whether I should get S3200 or S400, and W205 or W525 W135. This also beats S400, thus S3200.

1e110 + Angeline Demon Demon set S435,S3200,C50,C340,D10,D560,D1375,E230,E400,E495,A25,A400,A410,W1,W135,W175,W405,W520,W590 You need L45 angel line. Small Spell cast buff run. 6h+ runs are recomnded. Production come from gem grinder, + LW thropy, + maleston on Evil Fortres thropy, Care for drow union.

I was really missing W135, thanks guys ^^ It's also really nice that DJ3 extra evil spells cast count for this R, so you can start the next runs with a W175 over 1e8.

In my experience W205 is better for angelline demon than W135 since the former gives like a 100x times bonus to GH while the latter buffs assistants at max 10x (the difference becomes larger as you buff angel bloodline).

> *Originally posted by **[gaha](/forums/8945/topics/1854510?page=2#13219168)**:* > In my experience W205 is better for angelline demon than W135 since the former gives like a 100x times bonus to GH while the latter buffs assistants at max 10x (the difference becomes larger as you buff angel bloodline). How exactly does W135 buff assistants when you don't have A120? Demon builds get assistants from W175.

> *Originally posted by **[gaha](/forums/8945/topics/1854510?page=2#13219168)**:* > In my experience W205 is better for angelline demon than W135 since the former gives like a 100x times bonus to GH while the latter buffs assistants at max 10x (the difference becomes larger as you buff angel bloodline). W135 can give like 1000x max mana during LW Trophies after some buildup, which is about 100x assistants. Also 1000x max mana is 1000x production in the burst > *Originally posted by **[somarilnos](/forums/8945/topics/1854510?page=2#13219182)**:* > > How exactly does W135 buff assistants when you don't have A120? Demon builds get assistants from W175. more max mana -> more spellcasts -> more evil spell casts (Demon Union)

> *Originally posted by **[ensteffahn](/forums/8945/topics/1854510?page=2#13219195)**:* > more max mana -> more spellcasts -> more evil spell casts (Demon Union) Ah yes, that makes sense. Thanks for clarifying that. I'm still in the mode of "evil spells come from repeatedly recasting HFB and Combo Strike manually" instead of the demon union gain of a less-active run.