> *Originally posted by **[Jahws](/forums/8945/topics/612628?page=1#posts-10279674):*** > From that alone and the fact that assistants are direct production, 4.5^4 \> 410. Over a x410 multiplier, immediately. And _then_ all the other collateral effects. (As many have noted to me before, that series’ tooltip is bugged.) The 3 assistant upgrades are so low that you have to factor in base income. Going from 56 assistants to 280 is 5x assistants and increases each bonus from 56% to 280%. Instead of 5^4 it’s (3.8/1.56)^3 × 5 x W150/W330 In practice I think A120 should be considered 7500-9000% when choosing whether to use A120 or A330.

Although this thread seems to focus on good-prestige, a few thoughts to evil-prestige: Because of the Easter-Event (“golden chicken feat”) i tried a Droblin-build wich provides at least a bit of production. until now it seems to work: i went from Dtg (e99) to QaTg (e105) gems in 6 hours – it seems to be still growing. I don’t know if this is worth mentioning here, but heres my build (mainly because of a lack of evil-prestige-research-builds in the wiki): S: 50, 105, 215, 330, 460 C: 120, 135, 150, 200, 330 D: 55, 245, 250, 290, 320 E: 145, 150, 32ß, 330, 460 A: 105, 120, 270, 330, 410 W: 25, 180, 205, 250, 400 Spells: BF, SP – GC – CtA – TC (Gold) I tried to Focus on assisstants because of W205 (Maybe it would be worth to take W120 or W150 instead of W400). Flame of Bondelnar is still missing :( I know this isn’t optimized.. as said, it was just a try to get this feat with a little production :)

> *Originally posted by **[artcrow](/forums/8945/topics/612628?page=2#posts-10279875):*** > > *Originally posted by **[Jahws](/forums/8945/topics/612628?page=1#posts-10279674):*** > > From that alone and the fact that assistants are direct production, 4.5^4 \> 410. Over a x410 multiplier, immediately. And _then_ all the other collateral effects. (As many have noted to me before, that series’ tooltip is bugged.) > > The 3 assistant upgrades are so low that you have to factor in base income. > > Going from 56 assistants to 280 is 5x assistants and increases each bonus from 56% to 280%. Instead of 5^4 it’s > > (3.8/1.56)^3 × 5 x W150/W330 > > In practice I think A120 should be considered 7500-9000% when choosing whether to use A120 or A330. Makes sense, I guess I was ballparking that math a bit. I was mostly pointing out that those upgrades were affected, as they didn’t seem to be mentioned in the earlier discussion. Thanks for being more precise with it.

> *Originally posted by **[Jahws](/forums/8945/topics/612628?page=2#posts-10279924):*** > > *Originally posted by **[artcrow](/forums/8945/topics/612628?page=2#posts-10279875):*** > > > *Originally posted by **[Jahws](/forums/8945/topics/612628?page=1#posts-10279674):*** > > > From that alone and the fact that assistants are direct production, 4.5^4 \> 410. Over a x410 multiplier, immediately. And _then_ all the other collateral effects. (As many have noted to me before, that series’ tooltip is bugged.) > > > > The 3 assistant upgrades are so low that you have to factor in base income. > > > > Going from 56 assistants to 280 is 5x assistants and increases each bonus from 56% to 280%. Instead of 5^4 it’s > > > > (3.8/1.56)^3 × 5 x W150/W330 > > > > In practice I think A120 should be considered 7500-9000% when choosing whether to use A120 or A330. > > Makes sense, I guess I was ballparking that math a bit. I was mostly pointing out that those upgrades were affected, as they didn’t seem to be mentioned in the earlier discussion. Thanks for being more precise with it. The Assistant series is not ^3 it’s (1+assistants/100)^3. It makes it a little tricky to keep track on…

> *Originally posted by **[artcrow](/forums/8945/topics/612628?page=2#posts-10279875):*** > > *Originally posted by **[Jahws](/forums/8945/topics/612628?page=1#posts-10279674):*** > > From that alone and the fact that assistants are direct production, 4.5^4 \> 410. Over a x410 multiplier, immediately. And _then_ all the other collateral effects. (As many have noted to me before, that series’ tooltip is bugged.) > > The 3 assistant upgrades are so low that you have to factor in base income. > > Going from 56 assistants to 280 is 5x assistants and increases each bonus from 56% to 280%. Instead of 5^4 it’s > > (3.8/1.56)^3 × 5 x W150/W330 > > In practice I think A120 should be considered 7500-9000% when choosing whether to use A120 or A330. Unless you take C250 or D150, multiplying assistant count by 5 also increases FC gains by ~5×. Also, if you’re playing as Fairy or are Evil (and thus have W205), there are more multipliers based on assistant count.

@Rahler Yeah A120 should be revised upwards because of that. It’s probably better than A330 for most people.

Are elves just not competitive? or has no one experimented with elf/dwarf builds?

> *Originally posted by **[Deworx](/forums/8945/topics/612628?page=1#posts-10275275):*** > > I used 3 different Builds to get my gems to r40 > > Until e138 gems i used either Fairy-Dwarfs boosting Inns or Blacksmith (Dwarven Forge) depending on your Miracle target, which doesn’t reset upon abdication, so i used either neutral or evil to build up some time and then set my Miracle right (through weather forecast). > > Fairy-Dwarf (Non-Unique/Unique) [It actually is advised to build up your Evil Playtime to around 10h while using a Goblin-Caster build that gets your E480 over 10k+%], thus you are also prepared to directly swap to angel afterwards. > > Bloodline : Fairy > > S200, 215, 330, 500, 545, 590 [For Dwarven Forge, swap S215 for S135] > C10, 80, 120, 135, 150, 330, 460 [For Dwarven Forge, swap C460 for C405] (C460 to 3k+% before buying D400) > D245, 290, 320, 400, 480 > E150, 200, 330, 410, 480 [For Dwarven Forge, swap E410 for E320 and E480 for E135] > A105, 120, 330, 400, 495 (Alternately swap the lower of A330 or A495 for A545 if it is a higher bonus) > W120, 150, 180, 320, 330 [For Dwarven Forge, swap W120 for W290] > > Notes, i mentioned before that Miracle doesn’t reset on abdication.. there is also to note that when you buy Miracle it has a short delay before it activates, the delay is the time of your remaining Miracle time that you had before abdication. Also note that an Autoclicker helps to get C460 to 3k+ in 13 minutes and running a Goblin-Caster build for 9 hours will get your E480 to over 10k%. > > After you slow down on e138 gems, you should make a max building run with over 100k Buildings (Easily done with a similar Fairy-Build while using Goblin Bloodline, E50 and E135) and a max Excavation run (Also easily done with a similar Fairy-Build while swapping your lowest production boost for E290) [Requires 2 runs] and afterwards swap to : > > Dwarven-Angel with Druid Bloodline > > S150, 250, 330, 460, 500 > C25, 105, 120, 135, 150, 330, 500 (Alternately swap C500 for C200 if it is over 250%, probably on 2nd run) > D1, 55, 320, 435, 480, 590 [No need to D400, as those bonuses are high enough] > E80, 150, 200, 330, 410 > A50, 105, 120, 150, 400 > W150, 180, 225, 290, 320, 400 [I didn’t used W400 on r38 to 39 and instead used W330, on r39 to 40, it did saved me 2h to get to the same amount of gems] > > After i reached 10e141 i abdicated once and reused the same build, which did save some time. With a total time of less then 36h i reached r40 from r39, oh wait.. actually i only reached the gems. Right now i get the remaining trophys before ascending (1b Spellcasts). no mana (d290 not enough, weak ass forges in this build) no FC (cant afford LoDK. and if you can actually excavate w/o e290 then ur not maximizing production) terrible.

> *Originally posted by **[TheLowerLight](/forums/8945/topics/612628?page=2#posts-10280498):*** > > no mana > no FC > terrible. Thats only true for the fairy build.. and if you know how to play, you can effectively use your excavations until you reach e138 gems, which only takes a few hours and on last run you use your remaining excavations w/o e290. You probably didn’t even tried it or only read it partly. Those builds work until ascension with a rather good pace. Although i can’t talk for after ascension. (Ps. Assistants + TC = Faction coins ;P) As for the Angel build, there is absolutely no need for excavations – you try to boost your max building/max excavation run right before attempting those. (Those builds got me from r34 to r38 in less then 2 days of playtime, while r38 to r40 took 36h of playtime.)

> *Originally posted by **[TheLowerLight](/forums/8945/topics/612628?page=2#posts-10280458):*** > > Are elves just not competitive? or has no one experimented with elf/dwarf builds? Updated September 15, 2016. Faction: Elves Bloodline: Titan or Druid S 105, 175, *200*/**460**/215, 330, 500 C 120, 135, 150, 225, 330, 400, 460, 590 D **55**, 320, *400*, **435**, *480* alternates: 50/245/290/135 E 80, 150, 200/480, 330, 410 A 105, 120, 330, 400, 495/**150** W 10, 120, 150, 320, 330/**560** **updated** _Thanks to Nilloe doing some calculations on bloodlines._ Bold upgrades are for longer runs "Base build" refers to the build with all the leftmost upgrades taken i.e. A495 in 495/150. - *S200* is better than S215, for long runs S460 should be used. - Use *D480* if it will stay over 2000%. D50 is better than D245. - *D400* can be used to quickly push gems in the instant miracle version listed below (instant miracle Fairies may be stronger.) For lower gem total rushing D400 can be replaced with an alt for convenience. - Less than 30 minutes: Titanline. Take alt upgrades instead of bold upgrades. - 30 minutes – 1.5 hours: Druidline. Use D55 and D435 but no other bold upgrades. - 1.5 – 4 hours: Druidline. Base build with S460 and A150 instead of S200 and A330 (assumes A330 of ~5000%.) EDIT: For a low D480 - S545 and D290 instead of S105 and D480. For a low E480 - E250 instead of E200 - 4 hours+: Druidline. Base build with all bold upgrades: A150, W560, S460 instead of A495, W330, S200. This is the same as the “not recommended” build at the bottom of this post. note: Dwangel is stronger than Dwelves in that timeframe. Autocast Buildup: Bronze: Moon Blessing, (Diamond Pickaxe if S460 is taken) Silver: Tax Collection Income: Silver – Call to Arms, Moon Blessing, Spiritual Surge Gold – Diamond Pickaxe, Holy Light Titanline income: Autocasting is a bit clunky but it worked when I tested it. S200 stayed over 20×. _edit: With S500 autocasting should be adjusted. Setting the arrow to cover the full combo (maybe 6000-7000) mana should keep S200 high._ Druidline income: Bronze: All but tax collection Silver: Tax Collection For S200 set arrow at 1000-2000 mana. * * * Instant miracle version Build only Citadels and wait for a fresh miracle to target citadels before buying all buildings and casting combos. You can autocast to buildup clicks and spells for a bit as miracle will target only citadels when no other buildings have been built. Bloodline: Titan S 105, 175, 200, 330, 500 C **105**/400, 120, 135, 150, 225, 330, 460, 590 D **50** , **245** , 320, 400, **480/290** _fixed_ E 80, 150, 200/480, 330, 410 A 105, 120, 330, 400, **495** W 10, 120, 150, 320, 330 Bold upgrades are changed from the first build. * * * Druidline longer run (4+ hours) Can be used as a production run to unlock C460. Leave a slot open for C460 and add it when unlocked. S 105, 175, 330, 460, 500 C 120, 135, 150, 225, 330, 400, 460, 590 D 55, 320, 400, 435, 480 or 50, 245 E 80, 150, 200/480, 330, 410 A 105, 120, 150 330/495, 400 W 10, 120, 150, 320, 560 I did a 10 hour test of this. Dwangels can go from e141 to beyond e144 in that time. Dwelves went from e141 to e143 (really less than 1% the income from Dwangels.) EDIT: This got a buff when C400 got increased. It might be good for completing R38, maybe R39 now. **Save Strings** **Medium run:** Up to 90 minutes. This is fine for quick runs even if D55 and D435 don't build up much. Bloodline: Druid > S105,S175,S200,S330,S500, > C225,C330,C400,C460,C590, > D55,D320,D435, > E80,E150,E330,E410, > A105,A120,A330,A400,A495, > W10,W120,W150,W320,W330 > After horn: C120,C135,C150 D50/400/480/135/290, E200/480. - D50,D290,E200 for early rushing. D290 can be replaced with D400 at higher gem totals or D480 if it is high. Replace D50 only if using both D400 and D480. - D400 is optional. It produces more income than alternatives, but it is inconvenient to use during dry spells. **Longer run:** 1.5+ hours (W560 becomes better than W330 around 4 hours of buildup.) Bloodline: Druid > S175,S330,S460,S500, > C225,C330,C400,C460,C590, > D55,D320,D435, > E80,E150,E330,E410, > A105,A120,A150,A330,A400, > W10,W120,W150,W320,W330 > after horn: C120,C135,C150 - High E480: S105, D50, D400, E480. If D480 is high, replace D50 for more income or D400 for no miracle. - Low E480, Low D480: S545/200, D50/400, D135/290, E250/200 (1 of D135, D290, and E250 should be sufficient. This build gets more income from Elven Luck than tax collections.) - Low E480, High D480: S545/200, D50/400, D480, E250 - Alternate: S105, D50, D400, E200

I don’t see any evil builds in this thread. Not sure how this compares with all the good builds being posted, but I’m using this in the e1teens to low e120s to build up evil time so that when I do my good builds at the end of the R I have lots of D480 to work with… NU Demons/Drow S 105, 135, 150, 200, 330 C 80, 120, 150, 330, 460 D 10, 55, 245, 320, 400 E 150, 200, 250, 320, 330 A 105, 120, 150, 330, 410 W 120, 150 205, 320, 330, 400, 525, 590 Excavate for FCs, run autoclicker for about an hour to boost C460, while running BF And CS on Bronze, Tax on Gold, then do full combos on however many Hall Miracles you feel like sticking around for. You could autoclick for a shorter period if you want to treat this as more of a rush build, but it seems to have decent growth. Analyze away!

> *Originally posted by **[Walrusgs](/forums/8945/topics/612628?page=2#posts-10280775):*** > > I don’t see any evil builds in this thread. Not sure how this compares with all the good builds being posted, but I’m using this in the e1teens to low e120s to build up evil time so that when I do my good builds at the end of the R I have lots of D480 to work with… > > NU Demons/Drow > > S 105, 135, 150, 200, 330 > C 80, 120, 150, 330, 460 > D 10, 55, 245, 320, 400 > E 150, 200, 250, 320, 330 > A 105, 120, 150, 330, 410 > W 120, 150 205, 320, 330, 400, 525, 590 > > Excavate for FCs, run autoclicker for about an hour to boost C460, while running BF And CS on Bronze, Tax on Gold, then do full combos on however many Hall Miracles you feel like sticking around for. You could autoclick for a shorter period if you want to treat this as more of a rush build, but it seems to have decent growth. Analyze away! I used basically the same build for the same purpose in Reincarnation 39 (D480 buffing.) S135 is unique building only so I used S500. _edit: Druidline is strong for NU Demons._ I chose E135. I think it’s stronger than ~~E250~~ E320. _edit: Well I had 135, 250/480 150, 200, 330 as I recall._ W525 is a sad additive upgrade (to the base 1000% of blood frenzy) that doesn’t do much for short runs. I never actually tested W525 but it’s almost certainly the same as D525 in that sense. W180 is better.

> *Originally posted by **[artcrow](/forums/8945/topics/612628?page=2#posts-10280843):*** > > > > S135 is unique building only so I used S500. _edit: Druidline is strong for NU Demons._ > > I chose E135. I think it’s stronger than ~~E250~~ E320. _edit: Well I had 135, 250/480 150, 200, 330 as I recall._ > > W525 is a sad additive upgrade (to the base 1000% of blood frenzy) that doesn’t do much for short runs. I never actually tested W525 but it’s almost certainly the same as D525 in that sense. W180 is better. Thanks Artcrow, I knew I had some weaknesses here. S135 is a pure brain fart. I certainly would take E135 over 320 if you are going druid line. I’ll try that for the next run. W525 is there because I had used W520 in the previous run and noticed that I didn’t give it much time to grow, then didn’t look very far from there to find the next best upgrade. Definitely W180 is better than either. I’ll edit the build.

Once I hit ~1e130, I’ve been using Dwarf/Angel Druidblood S:150,250,330,460,500 C:25,105,120,135,150,200,330 D:1,55,150,320,435,590 E:80,150,200,330,410 A:50,105,120,150,400 W:150,225,290,320,400

> *Originally posted by **[artcrow](/forums/8945/topics/612628?page=2#posts-10280715):*** > > *Originally posted by **[TheLowerLight](/forums/8945/topics/612628?page=2#posts-10280458):*** > > > > Are elves just not competitive? or has no one experimented with elf/dwarf builds? > > I don’t really know how strong this is. Citadels are the primary production building. It seems C590 makes taking both C105 and D50 worth it (over C500 and D245 at least). I think it’s mostly optimized but it’s still a work in progress. > > Faction: Elves > Bloodline: Titan > > S 105, 175, 200, 330, 500 or **460** , 215 **updated** S500 adds ~80 assistants with A120 > C 105, 120, 135, 150, 225, 330, 460, 590 > D **55** , 320, 400, **435** , 480 or 50, 245 > E 80, 150, 200/480, 330, 410 > A 105, 120, 330, 400, 495/ **150** > W 10, 120, 150, 320, 330 > > Bold upgrades are for longer runs. > > Autocast > Buildup: > Bronze: Moon Blessing, (Diamond Pickaxe if S460 is taken) > Silver: Tax Collection > > Income: > Silver – Call to Arms, Moon Blessing, Spiritual Surge > Gold – Diamond Pickaxe, Holy Light > Autocasting is a bit clunky for Titanline, but it worked when I tested it. S200 stayed over 20×. _edit: With S500 autocasting should be adjusted. Setting the arrow to cover the full combo (maybe 6000-7000) mana should keep S200 high._ > > * * * > > Instant miracle version > > Build only Citadels and wait for a fresh miracle to target citadels before buying all buildings and casting combos. You can autocast to buildup clicks and spells for a bit as miracle will target only citadels when no other buildings have been built. > > Bloodline: Titan > > S 105, 175, 200, 330, 500 > C 105, 120, 135, 150, 225, 330, 460, 590 > D **50** , **245** , 320, 400, **480/330** > E 80, 150, 200/480, 330, 410 > A 105, 120, 330, 400, **495** > W 10, 120, 150, 320, 330 > > Bold upgrades are changed from the first build. > > * * * > > **Not Recommended** > Druidline longer run **Not as good as Dwangels** > S 105, 175, 330, 460, 500 > C 105, 120, 135, 150, 225, 330, 460, 590 > D 55, 320, 400, 435, 480 or 50, 245 > E 80, 150, 200/480, 330, 410 > A 105, 120, 150 330/495, 400 > W 10, 120, 150, 320, 560 > I did a 10 hour test of this. Dwangels can go from e141 to beyond e144 in that time. Dwelves went from e141 to e143 (really less than 1% the income from Dwangels.) It’s an excellent build at R37. The ultimate gains are when miracle hits citadels, but hitting royal castles and heaven’s gates also bring in massive gems :D

> *Originally posted by **[TheLowerLight](/forums/8945/topics/612628?page=2#posts-10283563):*** > > It’s an excellent build at R37. The ultimate gains are when miracle hits citadels, but hitting royal castles and heaven’s gates also bring in massive gems :D I saw that some of the other buildings were close in income and I tried to see if there was a way to work in S270 and/or S150 but the well functioning S200 and S500 left no room. S270 wouldn’t work great so it’s just as well. Having multiple miracle targets makes it an easy lazy rush build at least.

> *Originally posted by **[artcrow](/forums/8945/topics/612628?page=2#posts-10283709):*** > > *Originally posted by **[TheLowerLight](/forums/8945/topics/612628?page=2#posts-10283563):*** > > > > It’s an excellent build at R37. The ultimate gains are when miracle hits citadels, but hitting royal castles and heaven’s gates also bring in massive gems :D > > I saw that some of the other buildings were close in income and I tried to see if there was a way to work in S270 and/or S150 but the well functioning S200 and S500 left no room. S270 wouldn’t work great so it’s just as well. > > Having multiple miracle targets makes it an easy lazy rush build at least. S270 doesn’t play nice with A150, which is almost always MUCH better.

> *Originally posted by **[Rahler](/forums/8945/topics/612628?page=2#posts-10283878):*** > > *Originally posted by **[artcrow](/forums/8945/topics/612628?page=2#posts-10283709):*** > > > > Having multiple miracle targets makes it an easy lazy rush build at least. > > S270 doesn’t play nice with A150, which is almost always MUCH better. I think that A150/S270 should be changed/fixed so A150 doesn’t change the S270 “target”. In this (rare) case A150 wasn’t in the build. A150 takes a long time to be better than A495 with the Titan bloodline. I was also looking to get rid of S200 to make autocasting simple. I ended up with S215 and I wasn’t sure what else to take. (I had forgotten that S500 max mana gave assistants.) So at that point taking S270 could have been a viable option. I think it ended up being 2-3x with S215 though. Then I considered S150 and S270 as a replacement for S215 and S? and I think that was a bit better. Then when S200 worked well enough, I posted the build with S215 and S200. A bit later I updated with S500. So that’s my story of how S270 seemed possibly good enough :)

> *Originally posted by **[artcrow](/forums/8945/topics/612628?page=2#posts-10283908):*** > […] > > So that’s my story of how S270 seemed possibly good enough :) Fair enough. Messing around with builds to use for amping C135, I hit on this, which is actually producing gems pretty well: Dwarf/Elf Elfblood S:105,175b,330,460,500 C:120,135,150,225,330,460,520,590 D:50,290,320,435,480 E:80,150,200,330,410 A:105,120,150,330,400 W:10,120,150,320,330 Obviously, if you’re going for production you’d want to swap elfblood for titanblood / angelblood

Does anyone have an idea how Undead is supposed to work? Their 590 upgrade is kinda of a shitty version of explosives and kind of requires one to be offline for it to be even have any effect, which for Drow is kind of a bad thing since Drow relies heavily on the amount of CS used. They also have way way way too many upgrades in A that others do not have and only gain 1 additional research slot in there (A55, A175, A400, A480, A590)

> *Originally posted by **[Nilloe](/forums/8945/topics/612628?page=2#posts-10284322):*** > > Does anyone have an idea how Undead is supposed to work? > Their 590 upgrade is kinda of a shitty version of explosives and kind of requires one to be offline for it to be even have any effect, which for Drow is kind of a bad thing since Drow relies heavily on the amount of CS used. > They also have way way way too many upgrades in A that others do not have and only gain 1 additional research slot in there (A55, A175, A400, A480, A590) It suggests you sleep at night. And if you do, it seems like it will grow fairly good. I have to let my run go on for a bit longer to see how it works out.

> *Originally posted by **[NiraTheCuteLoli](/forums/8945/topics/612628?page=2#posts-10284483):*** > > *Originally posted by **[Nilloe](/forums/8945/topics/612628?page=2#posts-10284322):*** > > > > Does anyone have an idea how Undead is supposed to work? > > Their 590 upgrade is kinda of a shitty version of explosives and kind of requires one to be offline for it to be even have any effect, which for Drow is kind of a bad thing since Drow relies heavily on the amount of CS used. > > They also have way way way too many upgrades in A that others do not have and only gain 1 additional research slot in there (A55, A175, A400, A480, A590) > > It suggests you sleep at night. And if you do, it seems like it will grow fairly good. I have to let my run go on for a bit longer to see how it works out. Well I tried logging off overnight and when I came back it was at e132 with my current gem count being at e138. I guess the way to go about it would be to let it setup with CS autocast for a few hours to also buff W520? And then would the main production be online (thus requiring W205 and making use of A150) or offline (S435 + A590)? Just feels like with how powerful the Online productions are that there’s no place for offline and then why are you playing undead in the first place instead of just Demons which tends to scale much better.

On another topic I tried Artcrow’s NU Elves build and it seems to be going well so far. (R39 viable that is) I skipped miracle though since I idled it and it doesn’t seem to be better than any of the other choices. For a long term option (seems to be 4h+) W560 is going to beat W330 for that build. Expanding on this: Possibly adding Druid BL. Again after about 4h A150 becomes worth considering for this build so that allows access to the following mana based upgrades. Assuming a base regen of 150 when using S105 and 10000 max mana with S500 (making Druid BL a x3 multiplier on regen) During setup the upkeep cost is 700/22 + 1000/13 ~108 m/s This leaves 42 m/s without Druid BL and 442 m/s with Druid BL with D55 and D435 being x^1.65 this makes it a **48.6** multiplier to use Druid BL. During production the cost of upkeep is (700+2500+400)/22+1000/13+900/11= 322 m/s. Since 450 m/s is and thus over the cap of 322 the gain during production is 322/150 = **2.15** multiplier (with some mostly insignificant TC casts during production) A150 plus D320 are a 3^1.45 multiplier or **4.9** multiplier. Overall the production would be 48.6\*2.15\*4.9 ~ **512** times production which is massively ahead of Titan BL. I hope I didn’t miss anything but it looks like there’s even more potential in the NU Dwelves.

> *Originally posted by **[Nilloe](/forums/8945/topics/612628?page=2#posts-10284785):*** > > On another topic I tried Artcrow’s NU Elves build > > During setup the upkeep cost is 700/22 + 1000/13 ~108 m/s > This leaves 42 m/s without Druid BL and 442 m/s with Druid BL > with D55 and D435 being x^1.65 this makes it a **48.6** multiplier to use Druid BL. > > During production the cost of upkeep is (700+2500+400)/22+1000/13+900/11= 322 m/s. > Since 450 m/s is and thus over the cap of 322 the gain during production is 322/150 = **2.15** multiplier (with some mostly insignificant TC casts during production) > > A150 plus D320 are a 3^1.45 multiplier or **4.9** multiplier. > > Overall the production would be 48.6\*2.15\*4.9 ~ **512** times production which is massively ahead of Titan BL. > > I hope I didn’t miss anything but it looks like there’s even more potential in the NU Dwelves. During production, druidline has constant uptime on moon blessing/the full combo. Titanline doesn’t. With the 48.6x (assuming 200% druidline) and D320, that likely makes it better than Titan with just D55 and D435 for runs in the 30 minutes – 4 hour range too. _edit: The multiplier is 104.5 in your calculations. It’s somewhat close to Titan for 2.5-4 hours (S460). Without a bloodstream imbalance Druid looks to be the better bloodline._ _Without S460 and therefore no Diamond Pickaxe cost, Titanline seems to be better._ _more edits: I forgot about D320 in that. Druidline is better than Titan once S460 becomes viable (at about 2 and a half hours.)_ So I’ll update the build.

I see lots of people taking Mercy (D480)… is it really worth it spending time as evil / neutral just to get that thing to work? I mean, I know the bonus is great when you’re near even, but is it good enough to offset the time you have to spend to get it?