Reversing the sides, religion

from all the arguments about religion i have seen, religion is always the defending side. Athiests are always trying to convince relegious people of why they are right.

as i have stated in another thread, i think in understanding why people beleave starts with the question “why?”.

so i would like to ask you, why do you beleave, and why do you choose it above atheism.

A good idea and well noted, but I’m going to suggest that the word “prefer” is not appropriate here. No one should ever believe something because they “prefer” it. If that’s the case, it’s just self-denial. Preference has nothing to do with truth or belief. Instead, belief is based on the information that you collect and your interpretation of it.

english is not my naitive language so i tend to miss those things, i’ll change it right away.

EDIT: i changed it to choose, hope that sounds better :)

Religion threads scare me but I will try. I see “god” as a physiological manifestation rather than some mythical, omnipresent being. Humans have all the same basic makeup as way before any organized religion or the word atheism came about.

That’s one of the interpretations of “god” that I have a hard time arguing against. The formation of life on earth has yet to be adequately understood or explained. Perhaps there does need to be some sort of eternal life force that can create life on planets. It may not even be conscious, but more of a “spark” that can get things going.

yall know me. in the gay thread i went ON AND ON about christianity so if u really wanna hear all about it ill be ready, but yall probably dont wanna listen to me drill on and on and on.

no actually i’d be very interested in hearing why you are a christian :)

Well i would admit, I used to have some doubts. Now I heard this on a discovery documentary but i can try to find it on the internet if u happen to not believe me. But anyway, they gave some statistics. They said there is a much higher chance of picking ONE SPECIFIC ATOM out of this WHOLE ENTIRE UNIVERSE, then there is a chance of lightning striking some protein and causing spontaneous life, and THAT is a big reason why i believe.

Well i would admit, I used to have some doubts. Now I heard this on a discovery documentary but i can try to find it on the internet if u happen to not believe me. But anyway, they gave some statistics. They said there is a much higher chance of picking ONE SPECIFIC ATOM out of this WHOLE ENTIRE UNIVERSE, then there is a chance of lightning striking some protein and causing spontaneous life, and THAT is a big reason why i believe.

But this is using God to cover up an inability to explain something in science (which isn’t really believing in God, in my opinion.) And that statistical fact seems a little unreliable… there are an estimate 10^80 atoms in the universe (1 with 80 zeros following it) and we have yet to figure out what protein exactly was first made to be self-reproducing. This is not to say that it wasn’t God who did it, I just don’t think the reason to believe in God should be a seeming statistical accident. (That should also say you shouldn’t believe in God because the Redwings just won the Stanley Cup, or the Giants beat the Patriots :-P)

Ha. You raise a good point. But you speak of “science”. I wonder who created the first “science”?
I mean , don’t you need a “Scientist” to do “science”. Get my point? I find this to be another good reason. Because many christians feel we cannot believe in science, while i believe the opposite. I believe God was the GREATEST scientist!

Why should you believe in Yahweh simply because something unlikely happened? I would think that if you’re gonna believe in any god due to something incredibly unlikely happening, then you’d be more likely to believe in Lady Luck.

Anyway, here’s a really good “why” of Atheism: How to convert an Atheist

Ha. You raise a good point. But you speak of “science”. I wonder who created the first “science”? I mean , don’t you need a “Scientist” to do “science”. Get my point? I find this to be another good reason. Because many christians feel we cannot believe in science, while i believe the opposite. I believe God was the GREATEST scientist!

This is where logical consistency comes up. Assuming our universe (not just limited to our observable universe, but literally everything in existence, whether we can see it or not) is the only logical conclusion based on true axioms, then our science would have to exist whether there is a God or not. However, I thoroughly believe that if a God does indeed exist, he is the personal embodiment of logical truth. Because of Godel’s Incompleteness Theorem, however, I don’t think any of us have much hope to be God. =P

mxmm: while i will admit i do not agree with you very often, i will say you bring some interesting stuff to the table!
are you agnostic by any chance? because u sure sound the part!

mxmm: while i will admit i do not agree with you very often, i will say you bring some interesting stuff to the table! are you agnostic by any chance? because u sure sound the part!

No, merely trying to logically assess my beliefs. I am a fellow Christian :-)

hmm interesting. From the way you talk you make yourself sound like you are nothing of anything. Which is a rather good way to assess a debate. unfortunately, i cant really do that! I have to say, its pretty impressive.

hmm interesting. From the way you talk you make yourself sound like you are nothing of anything. Which is a rather good way to assess a debate. unfortunately, i cant really do that! I have to say, its pretty impressive.

Well in logical arguments, especially ones in which you must share the axioms of your opponents, it is good to assume as little as possible ;)

very true. but being a christian, i assume God exists and that people who don’t agree deserve to rot in hell. Its not my fault, really, because its one of those things thats been drilled into me since birth, however, i AM trying to grow out of this automatic assumption.

“Well i would admit, I used to have some doubts. Now I heard this on a discovery documentary but i can try to find it on the internet if u happen to not believe me. But anyway, they gave some statistics. They said there is a much higher chance of picking ONE SPECIFIC ATOM out of this WHOLE ENTIRE UNIVERSE, then there is a chance of lightning striking some protein and causing spontaneous life, and THAT is a big reason why i believe.
"

that assumption only works if there is only one protein in the whole universe, but the universe is probably packed with substances that can possibly start life.

the deal with that argument is that even if the chance was extremely small, we could only be here if that chance occured. if the lightning never came, then we could nog have been here to compare the chances. so maybe there are thousends of planets that can start life but never did.

"
Why should you believe in Yahweh simply because something unlikely happened? I would think that if you’re gonna believe in any god due to something incredibly unlikely happening, then you’d be more likely to believe in Lady Luck.
Anyway, here’s a really good “why” of Atheism: How to convert an Atheist
"

thats a great video, and also very true. if i were ever shown one of these things i would immediately convert. thats why i’m asking everyone why they started beleaving :).

may i ask, why are you relegious?

EDIT: sorry for the weard quotes, the quote didn’t seem to work :S

styxtwo, you can quote in one of two ways:

bq. This is a quote.

> So is this.

Which will create:

This is a quote.

> So is this.

Anyway, to both mxmm and danboy: even if these are good arguments for the existence of god, I still fail to see the jump from “some eternal force that created life” to “Holy Trinity of Christianity”. I’m still fairly open to some sort of eternal being, but it’s the whole Christian thing that I just can’t follow and see no reason to believe.

I’m an Atheist, and I never try to convince people that I’m right. If someone wants to believe in God, let them do it. Its not hurting me.

Up until they choose to vote for a bad Christian leader over a good but openly Atheist one.

that assumption only works if there is only one protein in the whole universe, but the universe is probably packed with substances that can possibly start life.

No. This isnt an assumption they way you are thinking. Scientists believe that lightning struck some proteins that spontaneously caused life. That statistic points out that you have a greater chance of picking one specific atom out of the universe.

I’m an Atheist, and I never try to convince people that I’m right. If someone wants to believe in God, let them do it. Its not hurting me.

Thank you. I respect you greatly for that! Most athiests just get soooo offended when we pray, like we’re sitting there forcing you to watch it or something!

may i ask, why are you relegious?

See this is where most of the athiests, agnostics, ect. get confused. Religion is not about proof. In fact it is the OPPOSITE. Religion is about believing in something that is not really around to show proof. I know there is a God. Have ever I seen him? No. But faith continues to allow me to believe that there is a God. Faith is the word for religion.

Religious folks don’t get ‘stuck’ on the defending side, they put themselves there.