Why did the US lose the Vietnam War? page 10

254 posts

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Originally posted by helltank:
Originally posted by BookKonnect:

The USA lost the war because it’s people held back the military from doing what it was made to do. WIN.

Not really.

Care to contribute more?

 
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Originally posted by BookKonnect:

The USA lost the war because it’s people held back the military from doing what it was made to do. WIN.

So the military was going to win before we pulled out? Citation needed.

 
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Originally posted by Winnabago:
Originally posted by BookKonnect:

The USA lost the war because it’s people held back the military from doing what it was made to do. WIN.

So the military was going to win before we pulled out? Citation needed.

I feel the military was held back due to stateside politics. ( the peace movement )

 
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Originally posted by BookKonnect:
Originally posted by Winnabago:
Originally posted by BookKonnect:

The USA lost the war because it’s people held back the military from doing what it was made to do. WIN.

So the military was going to win before we pulled out? Citation needed.

I feel the military was held back due to stateside politics. ( the peace movement )

What you feel is irrelevant to what is. Please prove your claims.

Vanguarde is that troll, right?

 
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Originally posted by Winnabago:
Originally posted by BookKonnect:
Originally posted by Winnabago:
Originally posted by BookKonnect:

The USA lost the war because it’s people held back the military from doing what it was made to do. WIN.

So the military was going to win before we pulled out? Citation needed.

I feel the military was held back due to stateside politics. ( the peace movement )

What you feel is irrelevant to what is. Please prove your claims.

Vanguarde is that troll, right?

I am just discussing what I think about the vietnam war, thats all. You’re welcome to ask for proof, but no proof exists in the hypothetical

 
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It can’t be a hypothetical, you’re making claims about events that already happened.

 
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Originally posted by Winnabago:

It can’t be a hypothetical, you’re making claims about events that already happened.

It is hypothetical, I am saying if the peace movement never put political pressure on the government and military the military would have been free to devastate Vietnam and win the war, using nukes and the like.
We will never know because the peace people got what they wanted

 
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Originally posted by BookKonnect:
Originally posted by Winnabago:

It can’t be a hypothetical, you’re making claims about events that already happened.

It is hypothetical, I am saying if the peace movement never put political pressure on the government and military the military would have been free to devastate Vietnam and win the war, using nukes and the like.
We will never know because the peace people got what they wanted

Assuming, of course, they could win the war.

You said the only reason the US lost was because the peace movement won. Citation needed.

 
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I was an infantry medic with the First Cavalry in Vietnam and Cambodia in 1970. Visit my website if you have an interest in or teach a course on the American war in Vietnam. Medic in the Green Time (medicinthegreentime.com) consists of numerous photo illustrated war and post war vignettes, short stories, war poetry, war documents (including translated Chieu Hoi leaflets), post war travel writing re Southeast Asia, compelling videos, uncommon links. There is no political agenda. There is nothing for sale. The website is a teaching tool. My war related prose and poetry have been widely published online and in print. In the past I’ve spoken at high schools and colleges re my war experiences.

Marc

 
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Originally posted by 91B20:

I was an infantry medic with the First Cavalry in Vietnam and Cambodia in 1970. Visit my website if you have an interest in or teach a course on the American war in Vietnam. Medic in the Green Time (medicinthegreentime.com) consists of numerous photo illustrated war and post war vignettes, short stories, war poetry, war documents (including translated Chieu Hoi leaflets), post war travel writing re Southeast Asia, compelling videos, uncommon links. There is no political agenda. There is nothing for sale. The website is a teaching tool. My war related prose and poetry have been widely published online and in print. In the past I’ve spoken at high schools and colleges re my war experiences.

Marc

Glad to see you here. I had several family and friends in Vietnam. Being in the Air Force I lucked out and spent time in Korea and Okinawa. I didn’t have to be in the middle of the fighting. I lost a brother-in-law a couple of years ago to Pancreatic Cancer from Agent Orange. We were the same age and it bothered me a lot.

 
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91B20, I hope you don’t mind me posting this link. A lot of the posters don’t understand war and the hell it causes the soldiers. I have been on threads where combat soldiers were insulted and disrespected. This link explains the after effects of combat to the soldier. In particular, VikaTae needs to read this link.

http://www.jeffreywolin.com/stories.shtml

 
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You’re not disrespected because you are a combat veteran, Jhco. You’re disrespected because your arguments are absolute crap – self contradictory, wandering all over the map, and a usual derth of sources.

 
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Originally posted by vikaTae:

You’re not disrespected because you are a combat veteran, Jhco. You’re disrespected because your arguments are absolute crap – self contradictory, wandering all over the map, and a usual derth of sources.

Again your eagle mouth has overloaded your hummingbird ass. I am not a combat veteran and all you did here was show your true self. My mistake for thinking you, of all people, would appreciate this man’s story.

 
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Then perhaps you should have argued for that, instead of wasting your time making digs at me. Argue what your point is supposed to be, and don’t wander all over the map.


EDIT: This time I have read the link. I can give you a dozen more stories like his. Most not as bad, but yea you see it far too often. There’s no easy fix. These people have had their minds almost irepairably shifted onto new tracks. They’ve lost a fundamental understanding of what civilisation is, because of what they have had to endure, what they have had to do.

The brain is plastic. It adapts to trauma, incorporates it. Builds a new mindset around it. But normal life is not traumatic. Whilst they get a savage kick during war that they have to adapt to, there’s no savage kick to our society. Nothing to force them to adapt to it or die – so they don’t. Basic survival never kicks in, in that manner. So treating them becomes an uphill struggle with no easy answers.

As your link says himself: He’s trying to go back to the jungle: back to a place where the rules made sense.

As to your post, if you had said:

Vika, here's a link to one person with a horrific war experience, who physically and
psychologically could not put it behind him

Instead of:

Vika, I'm going to insult you, sling muck your way then post a link to show you what a REAL
combat vet is

Then things would have gone a lot better, do you not think? You’d have an actual case instead of your usual meandering, mudslinging session.

 
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Originally posted by jhco50:

91B20, I hope you don’t mind me posting this link. A lot of the posters don’t understand war and the hell it causes the soldiers. I have been on threads where combat soldiers were insulted and disrespected. This link explains the after effects of combat to the soldier. In particular, VikaTae needs to read this link.

http://www.jeffreywolin.com/stories.shtml

So now he is trying to play the victim part?

 
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Hi punisher. If you are referring to the link, these people are not claiming to be victims, they seem to just be telling their stories. I would imagine some of the war stories of the current conflicts would really be horrible as they are sent back again and again. I guess in a way they are victims, victims of a situation they find themselves in that takes the rest of their life away to a degree. War is something you never forget.

 
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Originally posted by jhco50:

Hi punisher. If you are referring to the link, these people are not claiming to be victims, they seem to just be telling their stories. I would imagine some of the war stories of the current conflicts would really be horrible as they are sent back again and again. I guess in a way they are victims, victims of a situation they find themselves in that takes the rest of their life away to a degree. War is something you never forget.

The person in thev link can be said to be a victim be cause he was probably conscripted
but its disgustingly ignorant to consider now a days soldiers victims of any thing as they went there on their own accord.

 
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Originally posted by jhco50:

91B20, I hope you don’t mind me posting this link. A lot of the posters don’t understand war and the hell it causes the soldiers. I have been on threads where combat soldiers were insulted and disrespected. This link explains the after effects of combat to the soldier. In particular, VikaTae needs to read this link.

http://www.jeffreywolin.com/stories.shtml

I think almost every regular understands War-induced PSTD. The reason why they would disrespect them is because some of the stress was their fault, and theirs alone.

Let’s take that guy in your link. He says he has nightmares of screaming children because he murdered their parents. That’s HIS fault. His emotions got the best of him; he was thinking “Fuck it I’m outta here”, but then he saw some American heads on stakes. So what does he do? He does the EXACT DAMN THING to them. That’s where the disrespect comes in. He didn’t have the strength to control his emotions, and killed people over them. Nobody would know if he saw those people, and quietly left. He wouldn’t have been punished for it.

This is what you call “What you are in the dark”. Nobody would ever know what he did or didn’t do. His reputation in the military wouldn’t be marred, nor would he suffer any negative repercussions. Nobody would know that he took the non-violent decision and crept away. THAT is what I, and most people who disrespect soldiers like him, would respect.

Nightmares of ambush in the jungle aren’t his fault, and that is understandable.

 
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Fuck, reading through your guys’ posts makes me really feel like joining the military means that I deserve to get shot. The sole voice of respect comes from the poster who often comes here to stir up a pot of shit, and here he’s the only one who thinks that PTSD is a bad thing.

 
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I think it’s usually the generals and other officers who are to blame of things that go wrong. You simply shouldn’t put soldier in a combat situation anywhere near civilians if it can be prevented. You also need to keep psychologists around the troops to prevent them from getting a variety of mental problems.
Many soldiers do horrible things but I think that is mostly because of what has happened to them. They are often trained to hate a group of people or at least the culture to hate is there (a lot of current problems in the middle east come from the fact that some(not al) soldiers believe that Muslims are al inferior terrorists). Combined with a lot of stress coming from being away from home in a dangerous situation.

 
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Originally posted by thijser:

I think it’s usually the generals and other officers who are to blame of things that go wrong. You simply shouldn’t put soldier in a combat situation anywhere near civilians if it can be prevented. You also need to keep psychologists around the troops to prevent them from getting a variety of mental problems.

Usually on base you can find a psychologist (I’m talking stationed) but you can ALWAYS go to a Chaplin or an actual doctor if you need to talk / relieve stress (Now I’m talking FOB). Combat situations now revolve around protecting civilians these days, we’re trying to kick the Taliban out and it both requires hearts and minds of the people, as well as communicating with them to both gather intelligence as well as their hearts and minds so they don’t both accept the Taliban, as well as don’t put a bomb somewhere on the road. Gotta love giving out candy on dismounted patrols to fun little kids. The officers are only there to command the soldiers and to lead them, what a soldier does is based off of the training he has received and his own mentality. There are many MOS that require a constant calm state of mind that requires a certain individual to show no emotion (68W for example – but only really if you’re with a company that picked you up for combat) and they need to understand that the other guy’s pain is not theirs.

Many soldiers also look for other means of relaxation – it’s one of the reason why we have internet, hot showers, pets on base, K9 units (not specifically though), as well as time off from working your MOS.

Nobody is trained to hate, either. Though we may now employ tactics used specifically for dealing with the Taliban (Especially for 88M MOS), all training is universal for dealing with any threat that steps up to the USA. You aren’t forcefed “HATE THE ISLAM” for training, you are taught to operate equipment, deal under stress, work your MOS, etc. Do you think that M2 Bradley Linebackers in South Korea are sitting around hating the Taliban? Nope they’re living it up with a shitty MOS and chilling in South Korea all day.

I think you need to reconsider some of the things you’ve said.

 
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It used to be that in training you were taught to hate the Islam things have improved but the culture is still there in some soldiers (look up the infamous helicopter video). And going to the psychologist is sometimes seen as a sign of weakness.

 
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Originally posted by thijser:

It used to be that in training you were taught to hate the Islam things have improved but the culture is still there in some soldiers (look up the infamous helicopter video). And going to the psychologist is sometimes seen as a sign of weakness.

Going to a psychologist is not seen as a sign of weakness, what the hell? I want you to show me training videos in which soldiers are taught to hate the Islam. That Apache engaging those people was both a sign of misidentification as well as a gunner looking to catch some numbers – not such a bright mentality but I doubt that there was a huge fucking “I hate Islam, take this!” behind the engagement.

I’ve experienced BCT, AIT, stationing with a medical company, and being deployed with an infantry company. Throughout all of that experience, the only thing against Islam was some insensitive jokes cracked around. We weren’t taught to hate anybody, man.

 
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Originally posted by rwbstripes:
Originally posted by thijser:

It used to be that in training you were taught to hate the Islam things have improved but the culture is still there in some soldiers (look up the infamous helicopter video). And going to the psychologist is sometimes seen as a sign of weakness.

Going to a psychologist is not seen as a sign of weakness, what the hell? I want you to show me training videos in which soldiers are taught to hate the Islam. That Apache engaging those people was both a sign of misidentification as well as a gunner looking to catch some numbers – not such a bright mentality but I doubt that there was a huge fucking “I hate Islam, take this!” behind the engagement.

I’ve experienced BCT, AIT, stationing with a medical company, and being deployed with an infantry company. Throughout all of that experience, the only thing against Islam was some insensitive jokes cracked around. We weren’t taught to hate anybody, man.

Some thing for you
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/may/11/anti-islam-teachings-us-law-enforcement
http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2012/05/total-war-islam/

 
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Islam fundamentalism =/= What you’re tiring to argue

As for law enforcement – your citation is that of a British websites article – I don’t care for they teach. I’m telling you what I was taught and trained had literally nothing to do with hating Islam.