The State of SD (locked)

79 posts

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Hey I am a regular of SD but I am using my OT alt right now because I got silenced (probably for profanity)

Anyway, there is something that I feel needs to be re-adressed though and that is the way we argue. I have been getting very frustrated with it. And first no it is not just the conservative posters, and no it isn’t just the liberal ones. Anyway it says this in the forum guidlines but you read those once and you don’t again so I am going to bring it up again.

First off, I am getting tired of all the name calling, go ahead and state your argument but why do so many people think that an argument isn’t complete if they don’t call the opposing side an idiot? Okay maybe you think they are, that is fine, but name calling doesn’t help your argument. And it seems to me that people can’t help but tack it on, it’s like a signature on other forums just tacked in by default, “Oh by the way, you are an idiot.” The only thing it can do is make you look like an asshole, so why say it, do you really think calling someone is a valid rhetorical strategy? It doesn’t strengthen your argument, but it makes people less likely to want to listen to your posts.

Second is dismissing claims without any sort of argument at all, “Oh that is a stupid argument, it is so obviously false I won’t adress it”
Well humor us how about it, if it is so obvious finding a source that shows the argument holds no water should be easy.

But people should just remember the guidlines maybe, they are here to keep the debate more enjoyable after all:

Don’t troll or be a jerk.

Stay on topic within a thread.

Check to see if a thread already exists for your topic.

If you make a new thread, make sure the topic is something that can be discussed or is relevant to the forum. The opening post should be more about inviting discussion and asking rather than asserting.

Provide justification for what you say when possible.

Obvious things like: don’t post sexually explicit links, spam, excessive profanity.

Stay classy.

Thoughts? Justifications?

 
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Yeah, this forum has evolved into an aggressive debating forum, rather than a forum for serious discussion.
Misused, in the same manner that the Music forum was.

 
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Hi I always thought SD was a province. also chill out bro what do you expect from a gaming site populated mainly by 12 year old boys

 
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Originally posted by HappyAlcoholic:

Yeah, this forum has evolved into an aggressive debating forum, rather than a forum for serious discussion.
Misused, in the same manner that the Music forum was.

Too true.

 
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Thanks Arbitor and Captain Catface, your trolling much appreciated. (sigh, at least you bumped it I guess)
Seriously, does no one else think this is a problem, and an easy one to fix at that. Is it that hard to present an argument without personal attack?
Many of you guys have profiles that say you are adults, so how about you act like them, when I have to wade through insults to find a legitimate argument it is too much, typing isn’t like talking, it is quite easy to edit yourself, can we please argue without name calling like a bunch of 12 year olds? Seriously, “you are an idiot” is and has never been a valid argument, and it doesn’t enhance one either, I would like to see one instance when someone has changed their opinion on a matter just because someone called them an idiot.

 
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I blame myself I blame the others. You stupid!

 
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Originally posted by MoominPappa:

Seriously, does no one else think this is a problem, and an easy one to fix at that. Is it that hard to present an argument without personal attack?

SD goes in waves. You get these periods of sheer stupidity fairly regularly, but then you also get periods of serious discussion fairly regularly as well.

It all depends on which posters are around at the time, and there’s no way to control that.

Just take the Stupid with the sane, and eventually it will shrink back down to normal levels again.

 
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I blame nobody.

 
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Originally posted by MoominPappa:

Thanks Arbitor and Captain Catface, your trolling much appreciated. (sigh, at least you bumped it I guess)
Seriously, does no one else think this is a problem, and an easy one to fix at that. Is it that hard to present an argument without personal attack?
Many of you guys have profiles that say you are adults, so how about you act like them, when I have to wade through insults to find a legitimate argument it is too much, typing isn’t like talking, it is quite easy to edit yourself, can we please argue without name calling like a bunch of 12 year olds? Seriously, “you are an idiot” is and has never been a valid argument, and it doesn’t enhance one either, I would like to see one instance when someone has changed their opinion on a matter just because someone called them an idiot.

I’d like to see one instance where someone changed another person’s mind on here, valid argument or not. People may argue with the intention to educate/persuade/change hearts and minds, but it’s a rare person who is so open-minded as to allow themselves to be educated/persuaded by argument alone. Myself included, most of the time.

SD has a few smart posters and a lot of bigots and pedantic cretins. I respect the smart ones even if I disagree with them. I despise the bigots and the empty rhetoricians even when they share some of my views. It’s a fallacy of intention to think you can actually make people aware of what they don’t know and accept that fact without hostility. I’m tired of pretending that some people can learn to quit generalizing and approach subjects honestly and without being blindered by ideological bias—I’m not here to educate anyone, and I’m not going to sink to the level of those who spew garbage or tolerate bigotry just because they aren’t technically trolling—I’m better than they are and I won’t put up with it just because it would be more diplomatic to refrain from calling them on their BS.

 
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Originally posted by vikaTae:
Originally posted by MoominPappa:

Seriously, does no one else think this is a problem, and an easy one to fix at that. Is it that hard to present an argument without personal attack?

SD goes in waves. You get these periods of sheer stupidity fairly regularly, but then you also get periods of serious discussion fairly regularly as well.

It all depends on which posters are around at the time, and there’s no way to control that.

Just take the Stupid with the sane, and eventually it will shrink back down to normal levels again.

Yes and no Vika, even many of the regulars can’t seem to keep name calling out of their posts, I have seen it since I started SD, which was about four or five months ago. I understand people can’t keep their passion for subjects under control all the time, I mean that is probably why I was silenced. (Which is why I am using this Alt, it is Stilton by the way). But I am hoping that bringing up the guidelines again can maybe remind people that the whole debating thing should not turn into flaming, it is getting tiring.

 
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I’d like to see one instance where someone changed another person’s mind on here, valid argument or not. People may argue with the intention to educate/persuade/change hearts and minds, but it’s a rare person who is so open-minded as to allow themselves to be educated/persuaded by argument alone. Myself included, most of the time.

SD has a few smart posters and a lot of bigots and pedantic cretins. I respect the smart ones even if I disagree with them. I despise the bigots and the empty rhetoricians even when they share some of my views. It’s a fallacy of intention to think you can actually make people aware of what they don’t know and accept that fact without hostility. I’m tired of pretending that some people can learn to quit generalizing and approach subjects honestly and without being blindered by ideological bias—I’m not here to educate anyone, and I’m not going to sink to the level of those who spew garbage or tolerate bigotry just because they aren’t technically trolling—I’m better than they are and I won’t put up with it just because it would be more diplomatic to refrain from calling them on their BS.

There have been multiple occasions when I have changed my opinion because of a valid argument. Syniel explaining determinism to me for example, I don’t believe the idea 100% but it definitely has influenced my thinking on certain subjects. But this is post is directed at them too, the bigotry, and the intentionally misreading posts, the cherry picking small fallacies while ignoring a well put together argument. Name calling it seems just escalates things, and makes the arguments even more absurd. There are ways of pointing out argument flaws without being an asshole.

 
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Thanks Arbitor and Captain Catface, your trolling much appreciated. (sigh, at least you bumped it I guess)

That is not trolling, that is humor. And I can assure you that name calling was never unusual for SD, although there have been some aggressive posters recently, there is always one or two. And this thread will not change anything. People above me, stop bickering.

 
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That is not trolling, that is humor.

Does that kind of humour belong on this forum? :P

 
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Originally posted by HappyAlcoholic:
That is not trolling, that is humor.

Does that kind of humour belong on this forum? :P

Yes.

 
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Originally posted by Captain_Catface:
Originally posted by HappyAlcoholic:
That is not trolling, that is humor.

Does that kind of humour belong on this forum? :P

Yes.

three in a row isn’t very funny, it’s bandwagoning
but point taken. It’s better than starting a flame war.

 
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Originally posted by Jantonaitis:

I’d like to see one instance where someone changed another person’s mind on here, valid argument or not. People may argue with the intention to educate/persuade/change hearts and minds, but it’s a rare person who is so open-minded as to allow themselves to be educated/persuaded by argument alone. Myself included, most of the time.

I would fall into the category of a person who allows their stance to be altered by the input of others. Its occurred quite a few times on these forums. I seek things I can use, essentially, and even the most die-hard of my opinions, can benefit from a well stated, well thought out, different point of view.


Originally posted by MoominPappa:

Yes and no Vika, even many of the regulars can’t seem to keep name calling out of their posts,

Unfortunately its a case of different strokes for different folks. I too indulge in the ‘name calling’ from time to time, but always try to explain why I’m name-calling them with a little reasoning. Even those who basically are idiots aren’t going to be an idiot at everything, so why fling that particular type of mud?

But I am hoping that bringing up the guidelines again can maybe remind people that the whole debating thing should not turn into flaming, it is getting tiring.

Unfortunately, that won’t stop, not for the foreseeable future. Some really enjoy doing it, and so unless the fun goes (and there will always be those who take their bait and make it fun for them) those individuals will keep on coming back.

All we can do is take the good points they raise, and try to do something with them. Which is why, as a side-note, I tend to steer clear of pure philosophy, and tend to take a practical bent. I’m always looking for something I can build on in a practical sense, and actually put out there, having it be used.

 
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Maybe I am overreacting then?
I am certainly guilty of calling people idiots, and I don’t think it a bad thing, but honestly I think there are people on here with good intentions who have developed a habit of it. I figured this thread might make a difference for some of those people.

 
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I see a lot of false superiority here nowadays. Such as vika saying everything is bullshit. Jak saying everything is stupid. Arbitor replying LOL and totally disclaiming other people’s serious posts. It seems like everyone is just trying to be superior to one another. I’m getting sick if it, but I still stay here >.>. Disregard my opinion if you don’t agree.


I must say karma, fly, and still are very respectable.