Should women fight in war? (on the frontlines) page 29

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Flag Post
Originally posted by Galdos:

overall – MOST men are better physically

What the hell is better physically even supposed to mean?

and stronger mentally than MOST women

Get a source on that.



Originally posted by thepunisher52:
Originally posted by EPR89:

I repeat:
Your point?


EDIT: I know a few guys who are physically weak and I know a few gals who are pretty damn strong.
Also, the examples you mentioned don’t deal with physical strength, but with training, endurance, physical condition and technique.
So really:
Your point?


Tou are right tjese things concern training but you can’t just take a person and train him to be tough one has to be heavy built for this.


Grade A bullshit.

Your own post says it all you say that you know a few guys who are weak and few girls who are strong.

You might want to get your eyes checked.

Hence more suitable for the demanding job of army.

Your whole point is that the only deciding factor in whether you are suitable to fight on the frontlines is physical strength. This is simply not true. There are certain tasks that are probably easier when you can benchpress a football team, but endurance, stress resistance, psychological stability, technique and discipline are not at all related to physical strength.
I don’t see a valid argument to keep women out of there if they wish to do that job.

 
Flag Post
Originally posted by kris1027:

Why not?

Indeed. There is no weaker sex when you’re holding a gun.

yes there is.

female brain is more wired for color and male brain for detail.

it has a tremendous effect.

there are somethings women are good at and there are some things men are good at.

cut the pc when making choices

 
Flag Post
Grade A bullshit.
Don't be a turd, its OK to admit your fault.
You might want to get your eyes checked.
You better get your eyes and your brain checked did not you say:-
EDIT: I know a few guys who are physically weak and I know a few gals who are pretty damn strong.
-------------------------------------------------
  • endurance
  • Every one has a limit of it and stronger men's limit comes later than the weaklings.
  • stress resistance, psychological stability,
  • These are brain factors and I never arfued about them but women are relatively unstable during their periods.
  • technique
  • Technique means squat if you are not strong enough to pull it.
  • I don’t see a valid argument to keep women out of there if they wish to do that job.
  • A chain is as strong as its weakest link.
     
    Flag Post

    Here’s a challenge for you:

    • Go to your local gym.
    • Ask the trainer what kind of hypertrophy training you need in order to get more endurance, since you know that you need a heavy build in order to gain stamina.
    • Measure the time until he has stopped laughing.
    • Post your result here.


      Since you obviously can’t be assed to post anything but stuff you heard at a local bar, here’s some real information on physical facts of the human body. And since you seem to be especially sketchy on endurance this is probably a good place to start:

    One way to determine aerobic endurance is to see how much oxygen can be taken in in a set amount of time.
    In men the maximal oxygen taken in in millilitre per kilogram per minute is 40-55 in untrained people, 80-90 in athletes.
    In women it is 32-38 in untrained people, 60-70 in athletes.
    Here’s the catch: women are built differently. They have more fat tissue, which obviously is not supported by oxygen the same way muscles would. If that is taken into account the values are pretty much identical.

     
    Flag Post
    Originally posted by EPR89:

    Here’s a challenge for you:

    • Go to your local gym.
    • Ask the trainer what kind of hypertrophy training you need in order to get more endurance, since you know that you need a heavy build in order to gain stamina.
    • Measure the time until he has stopped laughing.
    • Post your result here.


      Since you obviously can’t be assed to post anything but stuff you heard at a local bar, here’s some real information on physical facts of the human body. And since you seem to be especially sketchy on endurance this is probably a good place to start:

    One way to determine aerobic endurance is to see how much oxygen can be taken in in a set amount of time.
    In men the maximal oxygen taken in in millilitre per kilogram per minute is 40-55 in untrained people, 80-90 in athletes.
    In women it is 32-38 in untrained people, 60-70 in athletes.
    Here’s the catch: women are built differently. They have more fat tissue, which obviously is not supported by oxygen the same way muscles would. If that is taken into account the values are pretty much identical.

    I’ll be the bigger man and admit my mistake and will not be a turd unlike you.
    My bad, I took endurance for something else.
    EDIT: I was half right about meaning of endurance
    “Endurance (also called Sufferance, Stamina, Resilience, or Durability) is the ability of an organism to exert itself and remain active for a long period of time, as well as its ability to resist, withstand, recover from, and have immunity to trauma, wounds, or fatigue. In humans, it is usually used in aerobic or anaerobic exercise. The definition of ‘long’ varies according to the type of exertion – minutes for high intensity anaerobic exercise, hours or days for low intensity aerobic exercise. Training for endurance can have a negative impact on the ability to exert strength1 unless an individual also undertakes resistance training to counteract this effect.”
    ?You are considering it as short term while I always thought it as long term.

     
    Flag Post
    Originally posted by Galdos:

    overall – MOST men are better physically and stronger mentally than MOST women

    Overall, MOST ppl over age 60 are much better drivers than those under 20. Let’s use YOUR “logic” to deny driving privileges until age 21.

    If any of ya “anti-women” had a fucking clue ya’d know there is a component much, MUCH more important than physical strength that makes a COMBAT team. I’m talking about the ability for that team to WORK TOGETHER TO GET THE JOB DONE.

    Women have a much higher skill level for communication necessary for teamwork. They aren’t so worried about who is “top dog” or leader. For them, it is all about “getting the job done”. They find that high cooperation effort is superior to macho crap.

    Basically, on the physical level….it ain’t the size of the dog in the fight, it’s the size of the fight in the dog. I know some women that literally scare the shit outta me.

     
    Flag Post
    Originally posted by karmakoolkid:
    Originally posted by Galdos:

    overall – MOST men are better physically and stronger mentally than MOST women

    Overall, MOST ppl over age 60 are much better drivers than those under 20. Let’s use YOUR “logic” to deny driving privileges until age 21.

    If any of ya “anti-women” had a fucking clue ya’d know there is a component much, MUCH more important than physical strength that makes a COMBAT team. I’m talking about the ability for that team to WORK TOGETHER TO GET THE JOB DONE.


    Women have a much higher skill level for communication necessary for teamwork. They aren’t so worried about who is “top dog” or leader. For them, it is all about “getting the job done”. They find that high cooperation effort is superior to macho crap.


    Basically, on the physical level….it ain’t the size of the dog in the fight, it’s the size of the fight in the dog. I know some women that literally scare the shit outta me.

    I object, size of the dog does matter
    Sure there are people not so strong but fearful because of their temper, but when one is to save ones self, he’ll give his all and that’s where size comes into play.
    So don’t ya give me that
    “it ain’t the size of the dog in the fight, it’s the size of the fight in the dog.” crap

    f any of ya “anti-women” had a fucking clue ya’d know there is a component much, MUCH more important than physical strength that makes a COMBAT team. I’m talking about the ability for that team to WORK TOGETHER TO GET THE JOB DONE.

    Women have a much higher skill level for communication necessary for teamwork. They aren’t so worried about who is “top dog” or leader. For them, it is all about “getting the job done”. They find that high cooperation effort is superior to macho crap.
    That is what training school is for, that is where they break your “I” and replace it with “we”.

    Overall, MOST ppl over age 60 are much better drivers than those under 20. Let’s use YOUR “logic” to deny driving privileges until age 21.

    You are comparing apples with beef.

     
    Flag Post
    Originally posted by thepunisher52:
    You are considering it as short term while I always thought it as long term.

    I have no idea what you mean by that. Please explain.

     
    Flag Post

    Hmm, I say let them. To be honest anyone that is willing to put their body on the line for their country is a hero, whether it’s a male or a female. A solider is a solider.

    Yes it “may” be difficult for women with their “different body’s” but i’m sure they “can” make that work. But sex harassment could happen, I know that it’s happened in the navy before. I’m pretty positive that it won’t happening tho. Think hard about this. A women is going into the army, front line, willing to kill and be killed, endure all the pain, leave her family and friends for months even years. You don’t think she can say “no” to a mans sexual needs? It’s all about the will power.

    Some of you guys just need to realise that women are just as equal as men. Yea “generally” men are stronger e.t.c But who says a women can’t go to the gym and bulk up? Who says a women can’t be a hero? Who says women are not army material? Idiots, yea go hate on this post, prove me wrong with all your science stats. But realistically you and I both know women can be on the front lines and do just a good of a job as men or possible better.

     
    Flag Post

    Who says that physical strength is everything that counts in the army? Besides certain people in this thread…

     
    Flag Post
    Originally posted by EPR89:

    Who says that physical strength is everything that counts in the army? Besides certain people in this thread…

    LOL….EPR, it’s kinda fun watchin’ someone vehemently argue against points he doesn’t understand much at all about. I’m talking more about his understanding of those opposing his. BUT, it well appears he really doesn’t know all that much about the issue itself.

    He so totally missed MY comparison of observation of rights to drive and rights to serve in the military. He has yet to explain why women’s RIGHTS are abrogated merely because of the absurd comparisons he brings up.

    Oh, to be sure….THERE ARE differences between men & women.
    The point he is missing is that those differences DO NOT QUALIFY as reasons to DENY women the right to serve equally as do men….should they meet the same MINIMUM standards by which men are assessed.

    When someone debates an issue as we are seeing, I can’t help but wonder if the point at hand really doesn’t just simply go much deeper…in the form of a huge GENERAL OVERALL BIAS against one or more of the parties involved in the issue.

     
    Flag Post
    Originally posted by EPR89:

    Who says that physical strength is everything that counts in the army? Besides certain people in this thread…

    It is more mental strength then physical strength.

     
    Flag Post
    Originally posted by NickP16AUS:
    Originally posted by EPR89:

    Who says that physical strength is everything that counts in the army? Besides certain people in this thread…

    It is more mental strength then physical strength.

    YES….attitude.
    That is what my analogy about the “size of the FIGHT IN the dog” is about.
    The analogy doesn’t ENTIRELY dismiss the concept of SIZE//physical strength.
    It just puts the issue in a MORE proper perspective.
    Something that obviously went right over T-pun’s head.
     
    Flag Post
    Originally posted by EPR89:
    Originally posted by thepunisher52:
    You are considering it as short term while I always thought it as long term.

    I have no idea what you mean by that. Please explain.

    Read my above post espacially the part

    Endurance (also called Sufferance, Stamina, Resilience, or Durability) is the ability of an organism to exert itself and remain active for a long period of time, as well as its ability to resist, withstand, recover from, and have immunity to trauma, wounds, or fatigue. In humans, it is usually used in aerobic or anaerobic exercise. The definition of ‘long’ varies according to the type of exertion – minutes for high intensity anaerobic exercise, hours or days for low intensity aerobic exercise. Training for endurance can have a negative impact on the ability to exert strength1 unless an individual also undertakes resistance training to counteract this effect.”

     
    Flag Post
    Originally posted by zmmaji:

    yes let them die if they want to

    if they die then the enemy might get their weaponry and kill innocents :)
    so its not about right to die but rather about the capabilities of women.

     
    Flag Post
    Originally posted by thepunisher52:
    Originally posted by EPR89:
    Originally posted by thepunisher52:
    You are considering it as short term while I always thought it as long term.

    I have no idea what you mean by that. Please explain.

    Read my above post espacially the part


    Endurance (also called Sufferance, Stamina, Resilience, or Durability) is the ability of an organism to exert itself and remain active for a long period of time, as well as its ability to resist, withstand, recover from, and have immunity to trauma, wounds, or fatigue. In humans, it is usually used in aerobic or anaerobic exercise. The definition of ‘long’ varies according to the type of exertion – minutes for high intensity anaerobic exercise, hours or days for low intensity aerobic exercise. Training for endurance can have a negative impact on the ability to exert strength1 unless an individual also undertakes resistance training to counteract this effect.”



    And if you read my post you would have seen that I was actually talking about aerobic exercise.
     
    Flag Post
    Originally posted by Galdos:
    Originally posted by zmmaji:

    yes let them die if they want to

    if they die then the enemy might get their weaponry and kill innocents :)
    so its not about right to die but rather about the capabilities of women.

    Ahhhhhhh…crap, Glados.
    Grow up a tad, will ya?
    At least stay LITERALLY “on the same page” as the discussion & somewhat relevant to current considerations. Going all the way back to page ONE (of 29) for the 2nd post on the thread is absurd. ESPECIALLY if it is a dumbass-as-hell post.

    YOU didn’t give YOUR age in yer profile.
    However, most of yer posts are doing that for ya.

     
    Flag Post

    I believe women should be able to fight in wars if it’s really what they want. If a woman were to join the army, I think they should be given just as much training and just as much respect than men, with no special treatment. Men are allowed to fight because they’re stronger physically with a much less delicate build than women, and people use that as an argument. I believe with proper training, no matter how small or delicate one looks, if they have the determination and the means, they can accomplish anything they put their minds to, which is why I believe women should be allowed to fight in wars.

    The period argument is invalid, because I can guarantee you if a man went up to their commanding officer while they were in the army claiming that they didn’t feel good, they would be laughed at and ordered to suck it up and give them 20. If a woman decides to join the army, they have to take that kind of thing in mind, knowing that no matter how bad they feel, it’s their decision and they should pull through it no matter what, the pain is only temporary and it’s nothing compared to the pain they’ll feel to their ego when they shoot down their dreams due to a few cramps.

    In my opinion, I find women to be just as equal to men, especially when it comes to “physical limitations”, being that a woman can endure some of the worst pain imaginable, such as childbirth, but she can’t hold a gun? Blasphemy. When you’re in the army, and you’ve been put through training and know what you’re up against, no matter man or woman, you have the same chances of getting your head blown off as the rest of them.

    The only con to women joining the army is that men seeing a woman’s head being blown off will mess up the morale of said man. A man would rather get himself killed rather than see a woman doing it, and that happening, will lead them into a severe (and sometimes irreversible) state of depression.

     
    Flag Post

    I wonder if anyone in this thread has realized this, but, WOMAN WERE ALREADY ON THE FRONT LINES IN WARS!!! Yes, they pretended to be men, but after the conflict in WW2, people found a hell lot of female bodies on the ground. If women can be mistaken for men; then that proves that are as equally qualified as men.

     
    Flag Post

    Hangman, the issue is not whether we can fight on the frontlines if we use subterfuge to get there – of course we can. The issue is being recognised as fighters based on our own merits, rather than being classified purely by gender.

     
    Flag Post
    Originally posted by Satirae:

    I believe women should be able to fight in wars if it’s really what they want. If a woman were to join the army, I think they should be given just as much training and just as much respect than men, with no special treatment. Men are allowed to fight because they’re stronger physically with a much less delicate build than women, and people use that as an argument. I believe with proper training, no matter how small or delicate one looks, if they have the determination and the means, they can accomplish anything they put their minds to, which is why I believe women should be allowed to fight in wars.

    The period argument is invalid, because I can guarantee you if a man went up to their commanding officer while they were in the army claiming that they didn’t feel good, they would be laughed at and ordered to suck it up and give them 20. If a woman decides to join the army, they have to take that kind of thing in mind, knowing that no matter how bad they feel, it’s their decision and they should pull through it no matter what, the pain is only temporary and it’s nothing compared to the pain they’ll feel to their ego when they shoot down their dreams due to a few cramps.

    In my opinion, I find women to be just as equal to men, especially when it comes to “physical limitations”, being that a woman can endure some of the worst pain imaginable, such as childbirth, but she can’t hold a gun? Blasphemy. When you’re in the army, and you’ve been put through training and know what you’re up against, no matter man or woman, you have the same chances of getting your head blown off as the rest of them.

    The only con to women joining the army is that men seeing a woman’s head being blown off will mess up the morale of said man. A man would rather get himself killed rather than see a woman doing it, and that happening, will lead them into a severe (and sometimes irreversible) state of depression.

    Why employ soldiers who are 90% of their strength than those who are 100%?

     
    Flag Post

    So you are still claiming that strength is the only deciding factor in modern combat.
    That’s cute.

    And what does soldiers who are 90% of their strength even mean? Are you implying that all women are under-trained and therefore cannot realise their full potential when it comes to physical strength and that all men are Hulks (which would actually be pretty horrible for their stamina…)?

     
    Flag Post
    Originally posted by EPR89:

    So you are still claiming that strength is the only deciding factor in modern combat.
    That’s cute.

    And what does soldiers who are 90% of their strength even mean? Are you implying that all women are under-trained and therefore cannot realise their full potential when it comes to physical strength and that all men are Hulks (which would actually be pretty horrible for their stamina…)?

    Periods

     
    Flag Post

    So periods decrease physical strength by 10% now?

     
    Flag Post
    Originally posted by EPR89:

    So periods decrease physical strength by 10% now?

    When you are in any kind of pain, your over all effectiveness decreases, it occupies your mind and all that.