Can Communism Work? page 17

594 posts

Flag Post

communism works very well thats why china is so powerful example: there are more cellphones in china than there are people in USA

 
Flag Post

Communism does work in any scale, unless some douchenazi is the leader of the country.

 
Flag Post

Full blown and true communism doesn’t work. There is no incentive to work harder or strive to excell with the same rewards coming no matter what. Even China isn’t truly communist.

 
Flag Post

I think it could given proper reform. For one in communism the government owns all buisnesses, that does not have to mean everyone is exactly the same. Actually in theory it could look a whole lot like capitalism only not privatized. But obviously the point of handing buisnesses over is to get things distributed more evenly. Does this kill productivity? Honestly, since we all know the system hasn’t really happened perfectly then I don’t think there is a good way to say either way. But I don’t think it would have to. Competetive economy is not as important as people say it is I think. There are some values to it though.

For one, I have a hard time believing competition is really the foundation for innovation, in fact I would say it really just ups the level or mediocrity at best. If you take people like Einstien and ask about what forces drove them to make the discoveries they did, then you aren’t going to find, that they were doing it for a promotion at work, or that they did it to make millions of some patent, or because they wanted to be the greatest scientist or whatever else alive. If those were the motives, they wouldn’t have accomplished nearly as much, you can much better credit these sorts of innovations to passion. Now the difference between passion and competition is that passion is an incentive on its own. When you love doing something, you do it, regardless of if it makes you more money than your friend, and you do it better that way. I can see this at my own school, I am a music major, and the kids here who think that they are going to get famous off the whole thing, they never accomplish as much, in fact most of them end up dropping out. You can get efficient at something because you “have too” that is competition. But you don’t get amazing at anything unless you really want to. And if you want to then you are obsessed, nothing can stop you. And nothing is really going to drive you further.

Of course competition between companies is one of the things that gets these people hired, you want the best researched, the best mechanic the best, whatever. But in theory I think that a communist economy may be able to eliminate any need for that kind of competition.

Of course different wages still has its advantages. For one not everyone is going to be passionate about things, and in that case taking competition is probably the second best option. Furthermore proper schooling is going to be more likely to inspire people in the first place, if you get equal pay regardless of schooling, the incentive might not be there to stay in school at all. So for those reasons competition would need to be built into a communist society, but I think it should be emphasized less.

And in a democratic system of communism, I would imagine there would be more control over bad company leadership too.

Originally posted by Zelcon:

Full blown and true communism doesn’t work. There is no incentive to work harder or strive to excell with the same rewards coming no matter what. Even China isn’t truly communist.

False. Doing something because you love it is rewarding regardless of pay. If there were proper educational reform done so that people would learn to love things needed for innovation, the “rewards” wouldn’t matter, because the real reward is the job, not the money.

Originally posted by Shanghai99:

communism works very well thats why china is so powerful example: there are more cellphones in china than there are people in USA

I always knew numbers of cell phones were the ultimate measure of success. Also if China is communist then I’m a pony.

 
Flag Post

Well, first thing i saw “wrong” in this topic is the ammount of users who think the generic way of communism, no you don’t have to share your mother to anyone else, actually, real communist (not the one in russia, and not socialism) is in an way, people work to achieve what the society (using democratic means) wants, it doesn’t mean you can’t ivolve, but tecnically you have your job, your job is done? Okay, your job is done, use the extra you produced/did/etc as you want, making an way of education where people are raized as “pure” as possible, trying to know its an societ where everybody is “together”.

Well, pretty much it works, we just not prepared yet, and maybe never will, no cuba and russia are not truly communists.

AND, please i don’t remember much how it works at all, soo i almost for sure made mistakes, soo don’t mind. =P

 
Flag Post

One of the many problems with it is that you are all rewarded equally, which is actually one of the main purposes, if not the purpose of communism. So, when you’re a hard-working doctor who spent 8 years in medical school, 5 years on-site training, and have tons of experience, that kid working at McDonald’s gets the same stuff as you. Capitalism isn’t perfect either, but it doesn’t have this major flaw.

People like the whole equality thing of it, but they get so hung up on “everyone is now equal11!!!!!!111”, that they don’t even consider that that is, in itself, a horrible downside. And that’s just naming one of many things terribly wrong with it.


Originally posted by Shanghai99:

communism works very well thats why china is so powerful example: there are more cellphones in china than there are people in USA

China has a ridiculously high population, and many people have more than one cell phone. And what if they just have multiple, cheap cell phones? This isn’t really surprising, and doesn’t prove anything. Do you even have a source?

Also, welcome to the forums.

 
Flag Post
Originally posted by ElBandito81:

One of the many problems with it is that you are all rewarded equally, which is actually one of the main purposes, if not the purpose of communism. So, when you’re a hard-working doctor who spent 8 years in medical school, 5 years on-site training, and have tons of experience, that kid working at McDonald’s gets the same stuff as you. Capitalism isn’t perfect either, but it doesn’t have this major flaw.

Equality in pay is not in fact required in communism.
Furthermore, yeah, there is lots of incentive for the doctor. That would be able to come if things were reformed a little bit. If the doctor likes their job. High pay doesn’t produce quality. In fact in the cases of the highest quality work I would argue pay and quality are completely unrelated. (to the point of course, where you don’t get paid, because if you died from lack of food there wouldn’t be much quality work coming from you). If you love something, you will devote your time to it regardless of pay.

 
Flag Post

I have to intervene:

“That’s why Communism only works on paper.”

No, in fact it doesn’t. Don’t make this mistake simply because it’s easy to make such a claim. Communism fails the calculation problem.

 
Flag Post

comunism doesn t work coz people are evil.

Capitalism without rules and values, doesn t work either.

I would go a capitalism but regulated with severe rules and restrictions.

 
Flag Post

I’d say capitalism is more efficient in most areas. Perhaps communism can one day become realistic with technology, who knows?

 
Flag Post
Originally posted by iMachine:

I’d say capitalism is more efficient in most areas. Perhaps communism can one day become realistic with technology, who knows?

A hybrid system may work. A kind of limited capitalism, not unlike the system Asimov envisaged, where the entire economy runs in a communistic manner, but each entrepreneur is permitted space to grow into. Limited after that, to avoid them crowding out other entrepreneurs.

Something like that would be extremely complex to micromanage, and would have to involve completely impartial entities who could not be swayed.

 
Flag Post

Communism is perfect!!! On paper.
Also, no country has really been true Communism, just dictators and there government acting like they’re Communists.

 
Flag Post

all hail stalin! XD

 
Flag Post

russia created the term, communism, wich started the cold war

 
Flag Post

OK why did you have to dig up a treat from 2011? And communism was inveted by Karl Marx in England.

 
Flag Post

in a perfect and i mean PERFECT world communism would work
now
heres the difference between communism and capitalism
you are standing under a tree when a carpenter comes up to you
capitalism: he asks if he can turn ur tree into a shack for 30$ you give him 30$ you get shade from the shack everyone wins
communism
he takes your tree makes it into a shack sticks 4 other people you and a dog in it

 
Flag Post

Lol this necro

 
Flag Post
Originally posted by thijser:

OK why did you have to dig up a treat from 2011? And communism was inveted by Karl Marx in England.

I guess you missed this guy: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fran%C3%A7ois-No%C3%ABl_Babeuf . Communism was actually around for a few generations before Marx was even born. And Marx himself was an economist, not a leading figure of any kind.

 
Flag Post

A lot of people indeed before Marx : Gracchus Babeuf, as said Frostbringer, and Pierre-Joseph Proudhon (a great guy), Louis Blanc, Auguste Blanqui, and before them William Godwin, Jean-Jacques Rousseau, etc., etc.

 
Flag Post

Yes, communism works.
It can work on any scale, but it becomes harder, yet easier the larger it gets.

There’s not going to be any successful communist nation any time soon considering peoples retarded attitude on it.
Not to mention people aren’t willing to consider that not all communism is the same.

 
Flag Post
Originally posted by Zachary_Greene:
There’s not going to be any successful communist nation any time soon considering peoples retarded attitude on it.

The human brain was not an adaptation intended to work in a communist society. Whilst the society style works really well, it runs into problems when you try to involve humans in it, because of the way the human brain itself works.

Your best bet is to keep the number of humans in your communistic society to a minimum, and install other safeguards into your system.

 
Flag Post

Most likely, everyone on here has read this this, but…..

Indian Chief ‘Two Eagles’ was asked by a white government official; “You have observed the white man for 90 years. You’ve seen his wars and his technological advances. You’ve seen his progress, and the damage he’s done.”

The Chief nodded in agreement.

The official continued; “Considering all these events, in your opinion, where did the white man go wrong?”

The Chief stared at the government official for over a minute and then calmly replied.. “When white man find land, Indians running it, no taxes, no debt, plenty buffalo, plenty beaver, clean water. Women did all the work, Medicine Man free. Indian man spend all day hunting and fishing; all night having sex.”

Then the chief leaned back and smiled; “Only white man dumb enough to think he could improve system like that.”

 
Flag Post
Originally posted by vikaTae:
The human brain was not an adaptation intended to work in a communist society. Whilst the society style works really well, it runs into problems when you try to involve humans in it, because of the way the human brain itself works.

That’s one of the biggest issues.
It used to work fairly decently back in the day with families and tribes and all, but now things are too advanced and people have changed to become even more greedy than back then.

That’s one reason why I disagree with a large group of communists that say everyone would and should be equal and get the same.
That will never work now unless a gigantic horrifying disaster happens where we actually NEED to work together, which won’t happen.

But if we let people get more benefits for different jobs/working harder than others it would possibly fix part of the issue with how greedy we are.

The issue with communism is that it can’t be on a small scale a lot of the time because a large group of people will be convinced what you make is no good or just will hate you for living in a communist place.
If there’s a drought, it’s going to be horrifying.

That’s why I like it on a bigger scale better.
If one place has a drought another place that has too much food could trade/ship some food over and other things the place is running low on.


Really every house-hold is a mini communist society in a way if you think about it.

 
Flag Post
Originally posted by Zachary_Greene:
Originally posted by vikaTae:
The human brain was not an adaptation intended to work in a communist society. Whilst the society style works really well, it runs into problems when you try to involve humans in it, because of the way the human brain itself works.

That’s one of the biggest issues.
It used to work fairly decently back in the day with families and tribes and all, but now things are too advanced and people have changed to become even more greedy than back then.

Nothing’s really changed with our fundamental cognitive abilities. Not in so short a timeframe. The human brain deals fine with a few hundred individuals, but cannot cope when we are exposed to thousands every day, without taking some self-protecting measures. Communication in such large groups is also a massive hurdle. It is not possible for every one of several thousand individuals to have time for deep and meaningful interactions on a daily or near-daily basis with thousands of others, let alone millions. Compartmentalisation of communities is naturally going to occur – and that is a death knoll for any communist system that is trying to maintain a central hub.

A communist nation of more than a few hundred is simply impossible, if you wish it to be a true communist system with equality between human minds. You have to modify the minds, install a hybrid system that can cope with disparity, or use other non-human minds in the mix that can cope with the population density.

Really every house-hold is a mini communist society in a way if you think about it.

Some are, some are not. Most households are going to be a hierarchical structure of one form or another. Different members having different levels of relative power.

 
Flag Post
Originally posted by Zachary_Greene:
Originally posted by vikaTae:
The human brain was not an adaptation intended to work in a communist society. Whilst the society style works really well, it runs into problems when you try to involve humans in it, because of the way the human brain itself works.

That’s one of the biggest issues.
It used to work fairly decently back in the day with families and tribes and all, but now things are too advanced and people have changed to become even more greedy than back then.

That’s one reason why I disagree with a large group of communists that say everyone would and should be equal and get the same.
That will never work now unless a gigantic horrifying disaster happens where we actually NEED to work together, which won’t happen.

But if we let people get more benefits for different jobs/working harder than others it would possibly fix part of the issue with how greedy we are.

The issue with communism is that it can’t be on a small scale a lot of the time because a large group of people will be convinced what you make is no good or just will hate you for living in a communist place.
If there’s a drought, it’s going to be horrifying.

That’s why I like it on a bigger scale better.
If one place has a drought another place that has too much food could trade/ship some food over and other things the place is running low on.


Really every house-hold is a mini communist society in a way if you think about it.

If you think of it, we’re not equal. Not at all. So, it’s hard to think we would have all the same benefits. What should be the same for everybody, as a base, is the right to have food, clothes, shelter, health care and education. Just the basic a human being needs to take an active part on a society. If you have all that, then the society is as a whole, in many aspects, your new “family” and could be called a comunist society. And then, once human life continuity is already stablished for everybody, you may have “benefits” for working harder, being smarter, most talented, etc.