Can Communism Work? page 2

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Vietnam and Cuba to name a couple.

And basically the fact that they didn’t follow the basic prinicples goes to show that communism is nothing more than a dream. It cannot be achieved. At least not by humans.

 
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Basically just expanding on the theory that you cannot produce something efficiently unless you produce it en masse. So if only one person wants it, making it for them and them alone is inefficient. Unless you are saying arbitrary wants don’t factor in?

I mean a couple specific items that are not in enough demand to produce it en masse. Because you could always make it yourself if you can feasibly.

Vietnam and Cuba to name a couple.

And basically the fact that they didn’t follow the basic prinicples goes to show that communism is nothing more than a dream. It cannot be achieved. At least not by humans.

That doesn’t even make sense. “Because the USSR was not actually communist, communism cannot be achieved”?

The USSR’s goal was not perfect communism. Their goal was power.

 
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I’m just saying it can’t happen.

 
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I mean a couple specific items that are not in enough demand to produce it en masse. Because you could always make it yourself if you can feasibly.

Lets say specialized medical equipment, vaccines or treatments for very rare diseases, tailored products for handicapped persons…

 
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Hmm, don’t quote me on this, but if I remember correctly, Marx thought that communism would be possible after we managed to remove certain traits from man, e.g., greed and the sense of competition. He believed that it is our current society and culture that educates us and creates our sense of individualism and ambition.

For instance, I wouldn’t like to live in a communist country. In theory, Marx said that communism would use industrial development to give everything to everyone (contrary to the popular belief that communism creates poverty to everyone). But, frankly, I don’t want to live in a utopia where I can just get whatever I want whenever I want. It seems like cheating!

It all boils down to the same question: are ambition and individualism inherent characteristics of man or are they just part of our culture? I prefer the first option, and, therefore, I do not believe communism could work. But what if humans could be “corrected”? Would we still be “human”?

PS.: There wasn’t a single communist country in the world. Socialism ≠ communism.

 
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Referos – I will address a specific bit you wrote…“are ambition and individualism inherent characteristics of man or are they just part of our culture”. Individualism is just as important a quality to us as empathy and related social values…and for good reason. Well perhaps individualism is an improper term, but it’s main qualities (competitiveness, greed, ambition, etc.) do have very important purposes. For one there is the immediate survival value that goes with such qualities, but more importantly most progress comes only because of the existence of such qualities. Who would run or organize a company, if no one had the desire or ambition to become a leader? How would the worlds health care be if we were not vain creatures terrified of death, and thus compelled to search eternally for the things that afflict us?

Well to be honest most of what we are getting into here are philosophical points, but without such qualities I see man dying off in apathy. What works for the ant will not work for an organism as complex as we are.

On a side note, I can see where the original idea could have stemmed from. We do have strong empathetic responses, and are very much social creatures. Social interaction is a keystone of our development and overall health. I don’t think it is unexpected that some people would take that train of thought to the extreme…but such a simplistic view ignores a large portion of reality and never works well for anyone involved.

 
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On a side note, I can see where the original idea could have stemmed from. We do have strong empathetic responses, and are very much social creatures. Social interaction is a keystone of our development and overall health. I don’t think it is unexpected that some people would take that train of thought to the extreme…but such a simplistic view ignores a large portion of reality and never works well for anyone involved.

The idea of communism, at least in its common Marxist form, stemmed from the horrid capitalism of the 1800s. During the time, most of the wealth was controlled in the extremely rich class, while the masses did most of the work for almost no pay.

Many of the socialist ideas Marx proposed are commonplace today, including Income Tax, Strikes/worker unions, Public Schools, minimum wage, etc. In fact, Marx probably would have approved of modern day US society more than the Soviet Union.

 
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During the time, most of the wealth was controlled in the extremely rich class, while the masses did most of the work for almost no pay.

and we’re not seeing any more of this, especially not in african and southeast asian sweatshop countries. ó_Ò

 
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As long as the governmental structure actually cares about its citizens, but in most to all cases, they just see it as a window to control.

 
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As long as the governmental structure actually cares about its citizens, but in most to all cases, they just see it as a window to control.

Easy solution: Democracy.

Communism and Democracy are not mutually exclusive.

 
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comunism only works i soviet russia

 
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comunism works with non-evil people

 
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comunism only works i soviet russia

oh yeah, how’s that going anyway?

 
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Soviet Russia was never communist. Not Marxist anyway. Also note the great Russian era of ‘communism’ coincided with one of the worst series of genocides in world history…all under their great ‘for the people’ system.

 
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yes it works example is runescape, where they banned free trade becouse kiddos were complaining about merchnters.

in rl it works too, but life is different,

anyway as poverty spreads throughout the world, communism will regain popularity

80% of worlds wealth in hands of 1% of capitalists is unsustainable in long term

 
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poverty spreads throughout the world, communism will regain popularity

absolutely, so if americans do poor job on keeping all the people rich – they might switch to communism

 
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absolutely, so if americans do poor job on keeping all the people rich – they might switch to communism

I doubt it, considering a lot of our foreign policy is dedicated to stopping the spreading of communism.

 
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russianbear: comunism only works i soviet russia

unpro: oh yeah, how’s that going anyway?

I’m glad I wasn’t drinking coffee when I read that – I literally would have spit it all over my keyboard! :-D

 
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The only real communist country left is The Peoples Republic Of China, and the way they are going they will soon be the world’s leading power, or it will turn into another cold war with America, so as i see it communism is still very strong.

 
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no because it’s in human nature that humans want to be better then an other human so no it won’t work

 
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The only real communist country left is The Peoples Republic Of China, and the way they are going they will soon be the world’s leading power, or it will turn into another cold war with America, so as i see it communism is still very strong.

Actually, no. The US is far more communistic than China now a days, that is why China is doing so much better economically than they were twenty years ago.

And the reason communism fails is because it destroys the incentive to work.

“From each according to his ability, to each according to his need” This is the basic tenet of communism. What it means is that you are to produce as much as you are able, but only get as much as you need. You quickly find that people suddenly develop far more need than they have ability and not enough gets produced. People want as much as possible for as little as possible and communism/socialism let’s people get stuff for doing nothing. It provides incentive to do nothing and disincentive to produce, and production is what improves peoples lives.

The opposite of this, free-market, lets people keep what they make and earn and they can exchange this fruit of labor for the fruits of other’s labors in voluntary exchanges. Everyone is treated as an equal in this respect instead of some slaving away for others.

 
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The only real communist country left is The Peoples Republic Of China, and the way they are going they will soon be the world’s leading power, or it will turn into another cold war with America, so as i see it communism is still very strong.

No. China is not Communist at all. At ALL. China is an authoritarian, capitalist state. They are the complete opposite of communism. No major society has ever been communist.

And the reason communism fails is because it destroys the incentive to work.
“From each according to his ability, to each according to his need” This is the basic tenet of communism. What it means is that you are to produce as much as you are able, but only get as much as you need. You quickly find that people suddenly develop far more need than they have ability and not enough gets produced. People want as much as possible for as little as possible and communism/socialism let’s people get stuff for doing nothing. It provides incentive to do nothing and disincentive to produce, and production is what improves peoples lives.

That is not the basic tenet of communism. The basic tenet is abolition of private property and abolition of a corporate lifestyle. Also, communism does NOT stop you from being motivated to work.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/To_each_according_to_his_contribution

Work as much as you can/use as much as you need is not the main concept of Communism, and would be far less relevant in a modern society.

The opposite of this, free-market, lets people keep what they make and earn and they can exchange this fruit of labor for the fruits of other’s labors in voluntary exchanges. Everyone is treated as an equal in this respect instead of some slaving away for others.

No, that’s not what communism is at all. Marx explains it best.

“. . . as soon as the distribution of labour comes into being, each man has a particular, exclusive sphere of activity, which is forced upon him and from which he cannot escape. He is a hunter, a fisherman, a shepherd, or a critical critic, and must remain so if he does not want to lose his means of livelihood; while in communist society, where nobody has one exclusive sphere of activity but each can become accomplished in any branch he wishes, society regulates the general production and thus makes it possible for me to do one thing today and another tomorrow, to hunt in the morning, fish in the afternoon, rear cattle in the evening, criticise after dinner, just as I have a mind, without ever becoming hunter, fisherman, shepherd or critic.”

 
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As said (a few times b4), Communism ONLY works on paper. Basic human nature will ruin it everytime.

 
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”. . . as soon as the distribution of labour comes into being, each man has a particular, exclusive sphere of activity, which is forced upon him and from which he cannot escape. He is a hunter, a fisherman, a shepherd, or a critical critic, and must remain so if he does not want to lose his means of livelihood; while in communist society, where nobody has one exclusive sphere of activity but each can become accomplished in any branch he wishes, society regulates the general production and thus makes it possible for me to do one thing today and another tomorrow, to hunt in the morning, fish in the afternoon, rear cattle in the evening, criticise after dinner, just as I have a mind, without ever becoming hunter, fisherman, shepherd or critic.”

Which is untrue. In reality, the opposite is true. In free-markets, a person is free to do as they wish and could do the many jobs in a day as Marx describes. In communism, the opposite is true because, as Marx said here, “society regulates the general production”. It can only regulate general production by forcing a certain number of people to do something. And this doing lots of things is actually very bad. One of the biggest things free-markets produce is comparative advantage which is where a number of workers specialize in the work they do, and this simple thing increases production and no one has to work any harder. Communism also destroys the incentive to do your job well because everyone has it in their head that everyone else will cover for their slack. In a free-market, you have to do well in your job in order to do well in your life.

Also, abolition of private property is the biggest downfall of communism. The biggest disincentive to working is not being able to keep what you earn, and if no property is private then you don’t own anything. You work for everyone else with need and not yourself.

 
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so as i see it communism is still very strong.

beacuse its not so old, it realy is in good hands