Can Communism Work? page 22

Originally posted by NaturalReject:

Originally posted by PatriotSaint:

(a.k.a. after a few more hundred million people have become “necessary sacrifices” for “the cause”).

Citation needed.

http://www.kongregate.com/forums/9-serious-discussion/topics/324577-profiles-in-communism

Notice any pattern in the data? For example, a lot of people die EVERY TIME someone else tries it again?

Originally posted by PatriotSaint:

Originally posted by NaturalReject:

Originally posted by PatriotSaint:

(a.k.a. after a few more hundred million people have become “necessary sacrifices” for “the cause”).

Citation needed.

http://www.kongregate.com/forums/9-serious-discussion/topics/324577-profiles-in-communism

Notice any pattern in the data? For example, a lot of people die EVERY TIME someone else tries it again?

Notice any pattern in how these forms of government were never communism?

Originally posted by EPR89:

Originally posted by PatriotSaint:

Originally posted by NaturalReject:

Originally posted by PatriotSaint:

(a.k.a. after a few more hundred million people have become “necessary sacrifices” for “the cause”).

Citation needed.

http://www.kongregate.com/forums/9-serious-discussion/topics/324577-profiles-in-communism

Notice any pattern in the data? For example, a lot of people die EVERY TIME someone else tries it again?

Notice any pattern in how these forms of government were never communism?

The Communist Party disagrees with you. Again.

Don’t tell the arsonists that they are burglars. It makes them angry.

Originally posted by PatriotSaint:

The Communist Party disagrees with you.

You keep saying that, have you done anything other that say that?

And even if they do, calling themselves communists is a misnomer.

Originally posted by PatriotSaint:

Originally posted by EPR89:

Originally posted by PatriotSaint:

Originally posted by NaturalReject:

Originally posted by PatriotSaint:

(a.k.a. after a few more hundred million people have become “necessary sacrifices” for “the cause”).

Citation needed.

http://www.kongregate.com/forums/9-serious-discussion/topics/324577-profiles-in-communism

Notice any pattern in the data? For example, a lot of people die EVERY TIME someone else tries it again?

Notice any pattern in how these forms of government were never communism?

The Communist Party disagrees with you. Again.

Don’t tell the arsonists that they are burglars. It makes them angry.

A dictatorship or a one party system is not communism. I don’t care what these parties call themselves.

Originally posted by PatriotSaint:

Don’t tell the arsonists that they are burglars. It makes them angry.

Yet if you have a group of burglars who do nothing but raid houses for valuables as quickly and quietly as they can, and they call themselves “The arsonist group” does that automatically make them arsonists?

Originally posted by EPR89:

Originally posted by PatriotSaint:

Originally posted by EPR89:

Originally posted by PatriotSaint:

Originally posted by NaturalReject:

Originally posted by PatriotSaint:

(a.k.a. after a few more hundred million people have become “necessary sacrifices” for “the cause”).

Citation needed.

http://www.kongregate.com/forums/9-serious-discussion/topics/324577-profiles-in-communism

Notice any pattern in the data? For example, a lot of people die EVERY TIME someone else tries it again?

Notice any pattern in how these forms of government were never communism?

The Communist Party disagrees with you. Again.

Don’t tell the arsonists that they are burglars. It makes them angry.

A dictatorship or a one party system is not communism. I don’t care what these parties call themselves.

A dictatorship or one-party system is not always communism.

Communism is always a dictatorship or one party system.

Originally posted by tenco1:

Originally posted by PatriotSaint:

The Communist Party disagrees with you.

You keep saying that, have you done anything other that say that?

And even if they do, calling themselves communists is a misnomer.

Yeah, I did. You posted after a lot of the conversation had already unfolded, so chances are you missed a lot.

Also, anyone who believes in communism is a communist, the same way someone who believes in capitalism is a capitalist.

Originally posted by PatriotSaint:

A dictatorship or one-party system is not always communism.

Communism is always a dictatorship or one party system.

Misnomers, misnomers everywhere.

---

You seem to not like what you think is communism.

Originally posted by PatriotSaint:

Yeah, I did. You posted after a lot of the conversation had already unfolded, so chances are you missed a lot.

… What? What does the time I first posted have to do with this?

Also, anyone who believes in communism is a communist, the same way someone who believes in capitalism is a capitalist.

Even if what the person thinks communism is is actually wrong?

Also, you may want to re-word that, because as it is, it’s like you’re saying that someone can be both communist and capitalist because they believe both things exist.

http://www.genocidewatch.org/genocide/12waystodenygenocide.html

This pretty much lists all the things people have done while posting on this thread.

I’ll type the ones that have been used by the righteous defenders of “real” communism (not the fake one that exists in real life) in this thread alone, in condensed version

1. question and minimize stats

2. attack truth-tellers’ motivations

3. declare deaths inadvertent

6. blame “out-of-control” forces

9. claim victims receive (mostly receive*d*) good treatment

10. claim that term “genocide” does not fit (something more politically correct works in lieu, eh?)

12. claim “peace, reconciliation” more important than recognizing genocide

@tenco

1. If it isn’t communism, what is it?

2. Yeah, do you like what I think is communism?

3. Because you’re more likely to see previous posts while they are new.

4. “Believes in” as in “supports”.

Communism can’t work because for it to be applied, it actively impoverishes its people.

Economically, the lack of free market economy can destroy the economic prospects of the nation, reducing the standard of living. Centrally planned economy doesn’t equate to communism, but some form of economic planning is necessary to coordinate the economy in the manner of socialist intentions.

Advantages are that consumer patterns can be controlled; restraining demand can favour greater capital investments, increasing the availability of money/resources in an underdeveloped economy to be invested into things such as industrial ventures which can be used to advance the economic objectives of the state. An alternative to waiting for capital to accumulate through light industry and without reliance on foreign investments (which would increase the State’s external debt).

However

This type of economy means due to no supply-demand system seen in a free-market means production cannot be coordinated efficiently:

“Without a market in which allocations can be made in obedience to the law of supply and demand, it is difficult or impossible to funnel resources with respect to actual human preferences and goals.” – Tibor R. Machan on Planned Economies.

Communism isn’t a practical alternative – It’s proven to work in China, but only because the Chinese system betrays the economic ideals of communism (outlined by Marx in his Manifesto assessing the means of production) and enforces the controlled state, more akin to Stalinism than true communism.

Marx intended communism to work as a series of communes around the world note necessarily as one controlled state, but with individuals in each commune to coordinate distribution not implying any dictatorial powers.

Communism was, in the end, a failed social revolution that dabbled in some interesting alternatives, and certainly appealed to the vast majority of the neglected working class who liked the idea of a classless and stateless society, but in the end, those ambitions collapsed in every case of applied communism, falling to dictatorship.

So long as we act by the human condition, communism cannot exist. It is too easily manipulated.

Good assesment, Stots.

Also, saying communism isn’t communism because it doesn’t work in real life… is like saying that a broken glass is not a glass because it is broken, when it is in fact, just a broken glass that will always be a broken glass.

Communism was a good idea in theory, of course the human element was never accounted for

why the fuck do you people argue for or against something you know nothing about

This post has been removed by an administrator or moderator

Originally posted by jhco50:

ITWASAFINGER, I have often wondered that myself. It is pretty much the reason I don’t post much anymore. Their so-called leader is Karma and he doesn’t seem to have both oars in the water.

He’s not our leader…lol.
( Well I guess I’m not really a SDer? I don’t know if I identify as much.)

Well, I kind of stopped posting before because they really just let the emotional posting get the better of them, and forfeit logic for their emotional appeals.
It’s hard to discuss with people when they are so emotional. Emotion is fine for empathy, but to progress a topic you need ideas. Without succinct ideas, they just run their circular arguments into the ground, and the discussion is just not worth the time or the effort.

Originally posted by Draconavin:

Originally posted by jhco50:

ITWASAFINGER, I have often wondered that myself. It is pretty much the reason I don’t post much anymore. Their so-called leader is Karma and he doesn’t seem to have both oars in the water.

He’s not our leader…lol.
( Well I guess I’m not really a SDer? I don’t know if I identify as much.)

Well, I kind of stopped posting before because they really just let the emotional posting get the better of them, and forfeit logic for their emotional appeals.
It’s hard to discuss with people when they are so emotional. Emotion is fine for empathy, but to progress a topic you need ideas. Without succinct ideas, they just run their circular arguments into the ground, and the discussion is just not worth the time or the effort.

It is kinda sad that there is only one kind of argument relevant to the thread after page 10 of nearly any thread:
1) one-sentence argument

Originally posted by Stots:

Communism can’t work because for it to be applied, it actively impoverishes its people.

Economically, the lack of free market economy can destroy the economic prospects of the nation, reducing the standard of living. Centrally planned economy doesn’t equate to communism, but some form of economic planning is necessary to coordinate the economy in the manner of socialist intentions.

Advantages are that consumer patterns can be controlled; restraining demand can favour greater capital investments, increasing the availability of money/resources in an underdeveloped economy to be invested into things such as industrial ventures which can be used to advance the economic objectives of the state. An alternative to waiting for capital to accumulate through light industry and without reliance on foreign investments (which would increase the State’s external debt).

However

This type of economy means due to no supply-demand system seen in a free-market means production cannot be coordinated efficiently:

“Without a market in which allocations can be made in obedience to the law of supply and demand, it is difficult or impossible to funnel resources with respect to actual human preferences and goals.” – Tibor R. Machan on Planned Economies.

Communism isn’t a practical alternative – It’s proven to work in China, but only because the Chinese system betrays the economic ideals of communism (outlined by Marx in his Manifesto assessing the means of production) and enforces the controlled state, more akin to Stalinism than true communism.

Marx intended communism to work as a series of communes around the world note necessarily as one controlled state, but with individuals in each commune to coordinate distribution not implying any dictatorial powers.

Communism was, in the end, a failed social revolution that dabbled in some interesting alternatives, and certainly appealed to the vast majority of the neglected working class who liked the idea of a classless and stateless society, but in the end, those ambitions collapsed in every case of applied communism, falling to dictatorship.

So long as we act by the human condition, communism cannot exist. It is too easily manipulated.

That’s not very juche of you.

Originally posted by ITWASAFINGER:

why the fuck do you people argue for or against something you know nothing about

Hyperbole much?
AND, just what qualifies YOU to say ALL of us know nothing about issues?

Originally posted by jhco50:

ITWASAFINGER, I have often wondered that myself. It is pretty much the reason I don’t post much anymore. Their so-called leader is Karma and he doesn’t seem to have both oars in the water.

LOL,
He must have heard his name being called.
And jhco….when was I elected the “so-called leader”?
Hell, I didn’t even get the memo that I was a candidate.
That YOU see me as the “leader” of this forum only serves to demonstrate just how out of touch w/ what is happening on this forum.
Leadership here is something I neither seek nor desire…..at all.

And jhco….when was I elected the “so-called leader”?

Last Thursday – no one told you?

Hell, I didn’t even get the memo that I was a candidate.

You were a write-in candidate, obviously.

Hyperbole much?

Cry harder.

AND, just what qualifies YOU to say ALL of us know nothing about issues?

Who is “ALL of us” and what issues are you talking about?

Originally posted by ITWASAFINGER:

Who is “ALL of us” and what issues are you talking about?

Are you even trying to use your brain?

Originally posted by tenco1:

Originally posted by ITWASAFINGER:

Who is “ALL of us” and what issues are you talking about?

Are you even trying to use your brain?

reparuted for amoshonal tararosiosm

Originally posted by ITWASAFINGER:

why the fuck do you people argue for or against something you know nothing about

None of us peons know anything about anything, but ITWASAFINGER does.