Can Communism Work? page 23

594 posts

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Originally posted by ITWASAFINGER:
Originally posted by PatriotSaint:
Originally posted by ITWASAFINGER:

why the fuck do you people argue for or against something you know nothing about

None of us peons know anything about anything, but ITWASAFINGER does.

I’ve not been proven wrong

“Wrong” is highly subjective.
That is only YOUR opinion.
And, as we all know, opinions are like our assholes,,,
we each have one,,,
and some ppl’s just plain STINK.
LOL

 
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Originally posted by karmakoolkid:
Originally posted by ITWASAFINGER:
Originally posted by PatriotSaint:
Originally posted by ITWASAFINGER:

why the fuck do you people argue for or against something you know nothing about

None of us peons know anything about anything, but ITWASAFINGER does.

I’ve not been proven wrong

“Wrong” is highly subjective.
That is only YOUR opinion.
And, as we all know, opinions are like our assholes,,,
we each have one,,,
and some ppl’s just plain STINK.
LOL

k

 
Flag Post
Originally posted by ITWASAFINGER:
Originally posted by karmakoolkid:
Originally posted by ITWASAFINGER:
Originally posted by PatriotSaint:
Originally posted by ITWASAFINGER:

why the fuck do you people argue for or against something you know nothing about

None of us peons know anything about anything, but ITWASAFINGER does.

I’ve not been proven wrong

“Wrong” is highly subjective.
That is only YOUR opinion.
And, as we all know, opinions are like our assholes,,,
we each have one,,,
and some ppl’s just plain STINK.
LOL

k

slowclap

 
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I suppose it looks good on paper.

 
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Originally posted by KingZeldar3:

I suppose it looks good on paper.

I bet it looks good from the inside of a political prison camp, too.

 
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The answer to the question: “Can communism Work”

Greatly depends on which kind of communism is meant. The kind where major means of production are owned communally is certainly possible. And is even practiced to one extent or the other in most democratic countries today.
The kind where this leads to a classless society is certainly next to impossible because different social classes exist even on the same steps of the financial-economical ladder. For example most prominent besides the economic status is the academic status and as such there is often a class difference between two people with the same economic status but different academic status. There are many other factors like Age, so that even with the economic barrier down a classless society is near impossible to achieve.

 
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Originally posted by PatriotSaint:
Originally posted by KingZeldar3:

I suppose it looks good on paper.

I bet it looks good from the inside of a political prison camp, too.

Pretty much.

 
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In absolute communism, everybody is equal-socially and economically. No religion or government. One owns nothing. All owns everything. It is a mere ideology, not certainty. It would fall apart in real life.

Then again, communism prevents corruption.

 
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Originally posted by NeonJohn:

Then again, communism prevents corruption.

Not so.

Absoulte communism is the ultimate form of democracy, with every member having equal say on every decision taken by the whole. However, in such a system mass media has even more control than in ours, for it is able to guide the majority with the programming it chooses to give to them. You still have corruption in such a system, unless you give every member access to all the information and somehow deal with the ‘groupthink’ problem the human mind currently possesses when immersed in a greater society.

It is always the human mind aspect that lets democracies down.

 
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Originally posted by vikaTae:
Originally posted by NeonJohn:

Then again, communism prevents corruption.

Not so.

Absoulte communism is the ultimate form of democracy, with every member having equal say on every decision taken by the whole. However, in such a system mass media has even more control than in ours, for it is able to guide the majority with the programming it chooses to give to them. You still have corruption in such a system, unless you give every member access to all the information and somehow deal with the ‘groupthink’ problem the human mind currently possesses when immersed in a greater society.

It is always the human mind aspect that lets democracies down.

Your right about the media. Although I believe I said ABSOLUTE communism. If everyone had the same amount of power, then everybody has the potential to guide the majority? It’s all relative though. Communism is still a democracy, all the citizens of a communist country choose how they are governed. They still have to give the power to somebody so they do not fall into chaos. So I guess your still right. Communism fails to consider human nature.

 
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Originally posted by NeonJohn:
Although I believe I said ABSOLUTE communism. If everyone had the same amount of power, then everybody has the potential to guide the majority?

You see how well that would work out, with the internet. Everyone now has the power to create their own broadcast channel, to let their voice be heard. However, not everyone wishes to. So, instead you wind up with a relatively small number of broadcasters and great hordes of people following along. Far more takers than givers, essentially, despite the potential powerbase being equal.

 
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Originally posted by Iggyshark:

Hail comrade, those are some nice shoes you’ve got there. Since we’re both communists, we need to distribute the wealth evenly. Thanks for the shoes. Oh hey, your house is nicer than mine, I’m going to need that too. And SAY! You’re wife is mighty pretty, equal distribution, right comrade?

That doesn’t even make one ounce of sense.
 
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It’s funny how communism has never been achieved, and each time a starry-eyed, iron-fisted dictator tries again, they FAIL.

Then someone else tries. And he fails, and he dies, and he and what he “stood for” is hated by the survivors and the world that chooses to see them.

Then someone else tries, maybe on the other side of the world. He follows the shining example of the last prophet of communism. He fails, he dies, and the world hates him too.

Then someone else tries. He does what the guys before him did. He tries something different, like inviting Western celebrities into his country so they can see how happy the people are (the richest, a.k.a., anyone involved with the government). Well, the people who aren’t behind the walls of a political prison camp. The celebrities go home and gush about the poster preaching paradise in crayon, taped onto a crumbling wall.

And it goes on and on and on. In the end, he fails. In the end, the survivors hate him and what he “stood for”, and so does much of the world.

Much. Not even close to all. The others want to “try again”. And you can guess how it will end for them.

They will fail, and the world will despise them and what they “stood for”.

Then someone else tries! ^^

 
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Originally posted by PatriotSaint:

It’s funny how communism has never been achieved, and each time a starry-eyed, iron-fisted dictator tries again, they FAIL.

Not surprising, since true communism and dictatorship are mutually incompatible. It would have to be an extremely democratic nation that moves to communism, for any attempt to be remotely successful.

Even then, you still have to account for the primitive areas of the human mind. Its not going to be easy, to say the least, to empower every individual, and account for those individual citizens who do not wish to be empowered into a position of control of things.

How do you give power to those who don’t wish it, and if you cannot, how do you account for their apathy in terms of the general vote? How do you educate the citizens sufficiently for them to care about every issue, and how do you administrate such an inherently massive beaurocracy in anything close to an efficient rate?

 
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Originally posted by PatriotSaint:

It’s funny how communism has never been achieved, and each time a starry-eyed, iron-fisted dictator tries again, they FAIL.

Cuba comes as close to being full-communist as any country comes close to being full-capitalist. Hell depending on the definition most countries are a little bit communist(certain industries being state owned).

The problem is there is no clear definition of communism, because it has been used to label different economic, political and social policies.

 
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Originally posted by vikaTae:
Originally posted by PatriotSaint:

It’s funny how communism has never been achieved, and each time a starry-eyed, iron-fisted dictator tries again, they FAIL.

Not surprising, since true communism and dictatorship are mutually incompatible. It would have to be an extremely democratic nation that moves to communism, for any attempt to be remotely successful.

Even then, you still have to account for the primitive areas of the human mind. Its not going to be easy, to say the least, to empower every individual, and account for those individual citizens who do not wish to be empowered into a position of control of things.

How do you give power to those who don’t wish it, and if you cannot, how do you account for their apathy in terms of the general vote? How do you educate the citizens sufficiently for them to care about every issue, and how do you administrate such an inherently massive beaurocracy in anything close to an efficient rate?

Well they don´t really need a vote in everything a Representative democracy would be okay, too. I see the problems more in trying to achieve a classless society as well as establishing an uncorrupted judicature and executive.

 
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The problem with Communism is nobody wants to give up their rights. In a village, it works just well, But when you apply it to a country, it fails because so many people have negative attitudes Towards it. It is impossible to Do a positive thing without negative responses. Therefore it does not work.

 
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Originally posted by Bobneson:

The problem with Communism is nobody wants to give up their rights. In a village, it works just well, But when you apply it to a country, it fails because so many people have negative attitudes Towards it. It is impossible to Do a positive thing without negative responses. Therefore it does not work.

Bob, for the most part….I’m in complete agreement w/ ya.
Fershur, most social management does best when applied to the smaller scale.
A huge community will simply have too much diversity—which is awfully difficult to “service” fairly & just due to the need to “satisfy” the basic human-selfishness factor. Too few ppl truly have a capacity to be “sociable” on a level that works well….regardless of what name one wants to apply to the system.

Now.
I want to “tweak a bit” your point above in bold.
I think the doing of positive things is better enhanced via LISTENING TO those “negative responses”. To do otherwise is to assume “perfection-of-effort”. Negative doesn’t have to mean “bad”.

[bell-curve application here]
“Negative response” can also mean: Can this be accomplished better, cheaper, faster, fairer, etc. Constant monitoring of the effectiveness of a system is essential to the success of it.
This is supported by the bon mot: It is not only a RIGHT of a citizen to question his govt….it is his DUTY to do so.

If I am correct tho, Bob….your application is that a larger social system can become very, VERY bogged down via the ugly negativity of ignorance & stupid selfishness. Hopefully someday, we will begin to understand how EDUCATION (insert CIVICS* here) is essential to the solution of the problem.

  • Civics is the study of the theoretical and practical aspects of citizenship, its rights and duties; the duties of citizens to each other as members of a political body and to the government.1 It includes the study of civil law and civil code, and the study of government with attention to the role of citizens ― as opposed to external factors ― in the operation and oversight of government.

Tyranny is the punishment for willful ignorance of what your govt is doing for/TO you.
KKK.
Lack of good education makes it easy to get ppl to believe & then do anything.
KKK.

 
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Yes Communism can work, just not with messed up people at the head of it. Party officials replace the hated bourgousie as the elite class and its back to the same system that you revolted against. Communism is a much more COMPLICATED type of government and requires a more complex and defined society as well as unbiased and well meaning party leader. If you compare communism and anarchy, communism is the opposite of anarchy with total order but this has not occured yet. It still could work, but I wince every time I learn a communist nation used collective farming. They seemed largely functioning before that point.

 
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Here we go again. Let me give you an example of Obama’s socialistic phone give away. You don’t have to qualify for it, at least there are very few needed. Now what do these welfare people do with those phones? Let’s see, they sell them for cash, trade them for drugs or alcohol, and oh yes…buy expensive handbags.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2343377/I-dont-care-Hidden-camera-catches-wireless-company-employees-passing-Obama-phones-people-say-theyll-sell-drugs-shoes-handbags-spending-cash.html

http://mynorthwest.com/76/2298123/Video-Obama-phones-sold-for-drugs

What do you ask does this have to do with Communism? Well, Socialism is a form of Communism. This is what our present administration is trying to do, change our country to a socialist country…a form of communism. This is what some in this country strive for and it isn’t acceptable to true Americans. Oh, guess who is paying for those phones to the tune of over two billion dollars? The taxpayer, the working stiff, what few are left. Oh wait! I’m retired on a fixed income and I am paying for them too. Isn’t socialism (communism) wonderful?

 
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Oh I’m sorry, I thought this thread was about weather or not communism could work, not about how Obama is slowly destroying America and worshiping the devil in his Muslim secret mosque in the white house with his fake birth certificate while all those lazy welfare people steal your tax money and give it to the Taliban and trying to derail America as a world power.

But back to the subject, while communism has more practical application in say a household, where people are sharing their resources with one another, it is difficult to pull off for an entire country because of there sheer amount of people and distributing the resources equally would be very difficult.

Imagine taking a pizza and trying to split it with 8 people. No problem, everyone takes a slice of pizza.

Now imagine we have 400 million pizzas that we need to distribute evenly to 300 million people. This poses an obvious problem. How are we going to give everyone the exact same amount. Who do we trust isn’t going to take a couple of extra pizzas for themselves?

There is a good amount of trust needed in a communist society and in a country with many people, like America, it just isn’t practical. You simply can’t trust everyone. The people who hold more power (however that would work in a communist society, theoretically everyone would have an equal portion of power but that isn’t practical at all) would probably take a bigger chunk then your average peasant.

And none of that even accounts for the bad track record that governments, that were more socialistic then communistic in most cases, have completely collapsed under the name of communism. The ideas of capitalism are so deeply engraved in (American) society that it would be next to impossible to establish communism in this country.

Tl;dr communism can’t work on such a large scale

 
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Well, Socialism is a form of Communism.

No, other way around. It’s like saying nationalism is a form of fascism. So along that way of thinking, if you consider yourself an American patriot, you’re also a nazi.

 
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Originally posted by jhco50:

Here we go again. Let me give you an example of Obama’s socialistic phone give away. You don’t have to qualify for it, at least there are very few needed. Now what do these welfare people do with those phones? Let’s see, they sell them for cash, trade them for drugs or alcohol, and oh yes…buy expensive handbags.

You mean the subsidized phone plan which was started under Ronald Reagan and expanded under Bush Jr.? Yep, Obummer sure is turning America into the USSA.

(If Obama was actually a communist/socialist, as opposed to being a neo-liberal corporate whore, he’d be a far better president. As it stands, he’s basically a black George W. Bush)

 
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communism CAN work!!!

innocent until proven guilty!!

 
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Imagine you have a class, and almost half the class got an F. And the other people who worked really hard, got an A. Then then teacher lowers down the average of the class to a C so that everyone is equal. So then the people who didn’t try hard think that no matter what they do, they are going to pass. While the people who worked really hard are really mad and they start working less because they don’t get what they deserve. So then the second time the test comes around, and the same rule applies that everyone is going to be equal, then no body tries and they all get Fs.