Can Communism Work? page 3

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russianbear: comunism only works i soviet russia unpro: oh yeah, how’s that going anyway?

I’m glad I wasn’t drinking coffee when I read that – I literally would have spit it all over my keyboard! :-D

i soooooooooooo wanted to see that, communism worked in russian for nearly a sentry-oh yeah, how’s that going anyway? (WHAT?)

 
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i soooooooooooo wanted to see that, communism worked in russian for nearly a sentry-oh yeah, how’s that going anyway? (WHAT?)

Dude, hes talking about how communism in the USSR (Russia) failed miserably.

Ever heard of Stalin?

 
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it woked for around 100 years greatly, but then new thought about the gov came

 
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Man is Phoenix like, the only one who gets when I’m being sarcastic?

Yes, I was saying that soviet russia is no longer around because communism failed there.

Does that ‘working for nearly a century’ include the millions who died under Stalin and the rampant corruption in the government?

 
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it woked for around 100 years greatly, but then new thought about the gov came

Why did a new government come in?

Oh yeah, they hated the old one.

Man is Phoenix like, the only one who gets when I’m being sarcastic?

Jeez man, you cut me deep there.

 
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Which is untrue. In reality, the opposite is true. In free-markets, a person is free to do as they wish and could do the many jobs in a day as Marx describes. In communism, the opposite is true because, as Marx said here, “society regulates the general production”. It can only regulate general production by forcing a certain number of people to do something. And this doing lots of things is actually very bad. One of the biggest things free-markets produce is comparative advantage which is where a number of workers specialize in the work they do, and this simple thing increases production and no one has to work any harder. Communism also destroys the incentive to do your job well because everyone has it in their head that everyone else will cover for their slack. In a free-market, you have to do well in your job in order to do well in your life.

This assumes jobs are based on hours of work, rather than quality of work. Which is one of the main points of Communism.

Communism doesn’t have to say “We trust you all to work as hard as you can”. It can also say “If you don’t work X amount and are able to, you don’t get food”. In my idea of the most practical execution of Communism, people are payed for their work, but this money can only be spent on consumables (Mainly food). That way, your motivation to do a good job means that you don’t have to work as often, and will be able to retire early.

Also, abolition of private property is the biggest downfall of communism. The biggest disincentive to working is not being able to keep what you earn, and if no property is private then you don’t own anything. You work for everyone else with need and not yourself.

See above. And if everyone is working for everyone else, what is the problem?

 
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communism does not account for human greed. the guy in charge of making sure that everyone gets an equal share is just a guy. that means he is not perfect, and you would have to be perfect to not abuse that position for your own advantage. furthermore, if i get the exact same things as joe blow who digs ditches for a living when I am a neurosurgeon, why the hell am I doing such a tough job? Take “real” communism, as you marxists put it, and give it a generation or two, and you dont have any more people doing difficult jobs, because everyone is a janitor instead.

 
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Again; Communism is a wonderful Idea… on paper.

Applied in real life, it doesn’t work.

 
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yah because humans are douches

 
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Exactly. Communism requires flawless execution. Which is difficult for douches to manage.

 
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Yes it “can” work.

 
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ee above. And if everyone is working for everyone else, what is the problem?

Because no one will work if they think someone else is working for them. Which, is what happened.

 
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On the smaller scale, yes. On the larger scale, so far, no.

But then- does capitalism work? Even when economies are thriving capitalism has failed to meet the needs of all… and when it’s not thriving, just forget about it.

I personally would like to try the Socialist midway- nationalisation of the means of production, but allowing private property and such- if there wasn’t so much infighting between the UK’s in any case insignificant socialist parties :/

If anyone’s interested- The Rebel by Camus is an interesting discourse on why the revolutionary tactics of communism haven’t worked, and why it wouldn’t be a good thing if they did- though from a sympathetic viewpoint. It’s not Anti-Communist, it’s a level-headed account of it’s failings from someone who wishes it would work.

 
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On the smaller scale, yes. On the larger scale, so far, no.
But then- does capitalism work? Even when economies are thriving capitalism has failed to meet the needs of all… and when it’s not thriving, just forget about it.
I personally would like to try the Socialist midway- nationalisation of the means of production, but allowing private property and such- if there wasn’t so much infighting between the UK’s in any case insignificant socialist parties :/
If anyone’s interested- The Rebel by Camus is an interesting discourse on why the revolutionary tactics of communism haven’t worked, and why it wouldn’t be a good thing if they did- though from a sympathetic viewpoint. It’s not Anti-Communist, it’s a level-headed account of it’s failings from someone who wishes it would work.

Free-market cannot fail unless you have government involvement. This has been the norm for a long time. Government intervention is what causes all of the trouble. You should read stuff by Murray Rothbard or Ludwig von Mises. They will explain how free-markets would work, why they are better, and why the government fucks everything up.

 
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I’ll certainly check those guys out- I don’t mind government involvement generally, since the low-paid but long houred working class jobs see people relying on government intervention for places to live, for healthcare, for education, for safety etc. Government intervention may see profits lowered and such, but they see them in the hands of those who need them and those who’ve put in the labour for them.

Welfare of people first, provide opportunities to live a meaningful life for everyone second, huge amounts for individuals last.

So I see it anyway- laissez-faire capitalism seems completely at odds with my ideals (I’ll certainly better educate myself about it before passing final judgement, though).

 
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Communism can never work. It kills incentive and ability.
/thread

 
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I always say that communism will work when we have robot overlords and StarTrek-esque replicators to provide every material need. Otherwise, no thanks.

 
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Communism will always make the rich unhappy.

 
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Free-market cannot fail unless you have government involvement. This has been the norm for a long time.

The Gilded Age worked? Also, last time I checked, Socialist Europe is doing a hell of a lot better than Conservative America.

Communism can never work. It kills incentive and ability.
/thread

No, it doesn’t. Why do people use unsupported one-liners to debunk communism?

 
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The Gilded Age worked? Also, last time I checked, Socialist Europe is doing a hell of a lot better than Conservative America.

Both places suck in so many ways IMO. I don’t see any fiscal conservatives running our country either.

No, it doesn’t. Why do people use unsupported one-liners to debunk communism?

What do you want debunked? It definitely kills incentive. Do you have some argument for incentives under communism?

 
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Socialist Europe is doing a hell of a lot better than Conservative America

Comparing a large group of diverse nations to one nation doesn’t strike me as wise.

 
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All of China is working :D

 
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Comparing a large group of diverse nations to one nation doesn’t strike me as wise.

Each of these nations individually is doing better than the US.

What do you want debunked? It definitely kills incentive. Do you have some argument for incentives under communism?

The harder you work, the less you have to work. The more prestigious your job, the fewer the hours you have to work and the more you have to save for retirement. Money would still have value, it would just not be able to purchase private property, just consumables. That’s my execution, at least.

 
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Each of these nations individually is doing better than the US.

This is just your opinion. Some people don’t view a 60% tax rate, part of which pays for medical tourism, as “doing well” or necessary.

The harder you work, the less you have to work.

The more we are forced to pay for those who choose not to work, the less they want to work and the harder we have to work.

 
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Each of these nations individually is doing better than the US.

Define ‘better’.