Gay Marriage page 2

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Originally posted by GameCrazyKid:

Look deep into history, and you will find there was very little mention of marriage that was not done under a priest. It is a direct abomination because God intended it to be a union between a man and a woman. And if you consider how prior to the 1900s all marriages were done under a priest, you will understand why it is a religious ceremony and how changing it treads on my ideals.

I am going to have to ask for a source that before 1900, every union between two people in recorded history was done under a priest. Go on, I’ll wait.

Im not very learned in religions from asia, I apologize if what I say does not exactly attribute to it.

Wicca and Occultism are not Asian religions. They’re spread across the continental United States as much as any other. So are hindu and buddhist believers. Since you wish to make laws that affect these people, perhaps it would behoove you to check up on these things. Decide which religious views you will respect, and which you will urinate on.

Are animals not unable to commit unnatural acts?

Technically, everyone is unable to commit unnatural acts, as the laws of physics prevent it. If the laws of physics allow it, its not unnatural.

But, with regards to homosexuality, how many examples would you like?

Im speaking in terms of marriage. If 2 men can get married why can 1 man and 2 women not get married?

Because a partnership between two consenting beings typically only includes two beings, not three.

Don’t misunderstand me, I would fight for the right to a legal polygamous relationship if the opportunity came up, as what consenting adults do in our own time is our own business, but it is not relevant to the discussion of what forms an acceptable partnership.

What I am saying is that it offends many people greatly to allow this. Im not sure of the percentage of homosexuals, but is it worth ignoring the traditions of the two largest religions in existence?

Is it worth forcing everyone not of those religions to accept your beliefs under force? Is it Christian, to tell a person who does not follow your beliefs to either accept them and damn their own feelings, or they will be locked away from their family in prison,m for breaking them?

Would you be okay if another religion did this to you, made their religious beliefs law, and on pain of incarceration, forced you to follow them?

I think that would be hard to do.

Not at all. The religious ceremony in the church is held, and they are now married. However, they keep separate names, are not entitled to a joint bank account, are not classed as next of kin to one another, and any children born are treated as the children of two separated people.

If they then wish to take a separate legal process to join, they can. If one of them wishes to take a legal process to join another person instead, they can. The legal union, and the religious marriage become two completely separate entities, neither able to influence the other.

I would personally prefer that way of doing things.

 
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Originally posted by Winnabago:

it’s you silly old people.

I’m not very old, sorry to say. =P

Nor do I hate gays. I just disagree with their lifestyle. And I feel that education should remain very close to neutral on the subject of whether it is right or wrong (but it should still stop the bullying of those with the inclination, firmly). But, those are my opinions, I guess.

Enough, I need to get out of this thread XD. Cya’ all.

 
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Originally posted by TheAwsomeOpossum:
Originally posted by Winnabago:

it’s you silly old people.

I’m not very old, sorry to say. =P

Of course not. Not many old people are on the internet.

I agree with the rest.

 
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Originally posted by Winnabago:
Originally posted by TheAwsomeOpossum:
Originally posted by Winnabago:

it’s you silly old people.

I’m not very old, sorry to say. =P

Of course not. Not many old people are on the internet.

Lol XD. Pretty true. But I know a remarkable amount of people who are old, who do hang out here on Kong, surprisingly. I actually wonder what the statistic are… anybody know where you could find those? Sorry… I am just curious =).

 
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You would have to contact Kong directly for user demographics, TAO. support@kongregate.com

 
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Originally posted by GameCrazyKid:

I don’t support Gay Marriage, I am strongly against it. One of the biggest reasons for this is that it is a distinct abomination of a Christian belief. Marriage has always been a religious ceremony (unless one was to bring up Roman marriage, but are we really going to take examples from the Roman empires?)

I don’t think there are any real religions that accept homosexuality, I think all of them either reject it or do not comment on it (But not commenting does not mean they support it. Or “it is fine”)

Also, I am a strong believer that homosexuality is unnatural. If we look at it with a scientific view homosexuality literally drains on the survival of the species. (No, I am not saying the human race is in danger of dying out, but the point still stands.)

And lastly, if we legalize Gay Marriage how can we say no to things like Polygamy? Does banning polygamy not bar the beliefs of Mormons? (The main point of this sentence being, where does it end? Where do we draw the line?)

But while I do realize that not everyone believes in my religion and not everyone should be bound by it’s law I feel like legalizing Gay marriage will tread on the beliefs of billions of people.

Honestly, I could care less if they were “legally bonded” or they were “In a partnership” but it is the term. The term “marriage” that I do not want being changed. Because the bible says “Marriage is between a man and a woman for love and procreation, any other definition is an abomination.”

Which is why I believe Gay Marriage should not be legalized (I realize in some places it is being legalized)

I will try to put this as nice as I can.

Other peoples sexual orientation is none of your affairs. It is not your buisness. How does it personally hurt or injure you?

These people are just like you and me, and they want to be happy and marry the person they love.

It is that simple.

As for the bible and Christianity, what it ‘thinks’ is irrelevant.

 
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The issue of Gay Marriage and the appropriate Christian response is actually a very interesting and thought provoking question. However, this argument is generally turned into an argument where one side is calling Christians hateful evil bigots, while the Christian side is saying Gays cant marry b/c homosexuality is wrong.

Not very often do I see Christians give sound reasoning against homosexual marriage. It is usually in the tone of what the OP said, just complete rubbish. Before we can look at a legitimate biblical view of gay marriage, lets first analyze GameCrazyKid’s view.

One of the biggest reasons for this is that it is a distinct abomination of a Christian belief. Marriage has always been a religious ceremony

If homosexuality is reason to disallow marriage, they why not other sins as well? Why does your Christian belief allow for adulterers (swingers) to marry? A Christian belief that bans homosexual marriage, should also ban any marriage that isn’t between two faithful Christian believers, a male and a female. This mean that atheist or any other faith, should not be allowed to marry as well. So, your view fails because it fails to be consistent, this comes off as being bigoted, and is a terrible argument for those who claim to be Christians.

I don’t think there are any real religions that accept homosexuality

First, there are religions that accept homosexuality, but that frankly doesn’t matter. The assumption here is that because the lifestyle is wrong, they cannot be married. This reasoning would also extend to Jews, Athiest, Mormons, Muslims, drug dealers, strippers, pornographers, etc. anyone living in sin. However you do not discriminate marriage against these folks, just homosexuals, this is why you come off as a bigot.

If we look at it with a scientific view homosexuality literally drains on the survival of the species.

Since when where children required for marriage? The answer is never. Marriage under the bible was designed for companionship. Should people who are unable to have children, be banned from marriage as well? Obviously no.

if we legalize Gay Marriage how can we say no to things like Polygamy?

If we legalize Atheist Marriage how can we say no to things like Gay Marriage? Why does your slippery slope stop at Gay Marriage?

legalizing Gay marriage will tread on the beliefs of billions of people.

Adultery is legal. And many religions ban adultery. Yet adultery is not illegal, and I see very little Christian organizations who actively support making adultery illegal. There are many activities that are legal, but unbiblical, when you decide to finally put your foot down on gay marriage, it seems bigoted. If you want to be against gay marriage, be against everything you consider to be inappropriate.

Honestly, I could care less if they were “legally bonded” or they were “In a partnership” but it is the term.

Do you think God speaks English? This is a common incorrect view in Christians. They picture him as an entity who uses words to communicate. Don’t get me wrong, he can speak English, but that’s only because that’s OUR limitation, not his. Do you really think God is going to get angry if we let two guys into a “marriage,” but he is totally cool if we legalize that two men can be in a “partnership.” Fact is, there are two types of marriage, the legal one, and the one between God. Most Christians can’t get by this idea. Homosexuals are looking for permission to get legally united into a marriage, a marriage that is respected by the government. They aren’t asking for permission to get married by God. And if they were, they wouldn’t be asking you!! That would be between them and God.

Which is why I believe Gay Marriage should not be legalized

So basically your whole argument, is that because homosexuality is wrong, gays should not be aloud to marry. Basically a very hypocritical view of gay marriage. Let me remind you about 2 Corinthians 6:14:
Do not be yoked together with unbelievers.
The bible actually TELLS us, in print, that believers should not marry unbelievers, but where is the Christian movement to ban such a marriage? Non-existent (virtually).
Hypocrisy (or false prophets) is the worst enemy of the Church in my opinion. These types of views, should not be supported by Christian nor Atheist.

 
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Originally posted by zwinkey98:

The gay marriage front is so that the unions of same-sex couples are recognized legally.
Anyways, they can have a religous union either way. God’ll forgive ‘em, right? Christianity is so hypocritical…
Essentially you’re saying God loves everyone EXCEPT gays, Jews, Muslims, athiests, or anyone who’s not Christian or straight (trust me, this is exactly what you’re implying)

Actually, according to the bible it is an abomination and yes it is one of those sins that send you straight to hell. Good luck boys and girls.

 
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Originally posted by Winnabago:

Gay people don’t pass their genes very often. Yes. So what? Neither do women who can’t get pregnant. Ban them from getting married as well?

What God wants the law is in no position to say. That’s your church’s decision, not the government’s.

Actually, they pass diseases, like aids. Oh yes, it is a good behavior to participate in as long as you can get the taxpayer to foot the bill for you hospital stay and aids research. It is such a natural behavior…ever hear of a pink sock?

 
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Did I step into a time machine? Saying gay people spread the aids so they can’t get married is like saying disabled people can’t use stairs so able bodied people can’t use elevators. We figured out that anal sex (something straight couples can and do have) causes aids, and we invented elevators but still let normal people use them if they ask nicely. Kindly keep your opinions out of matters of objective value. Defining homosexual relationships with alternative terms, or attempting to invalidate their experience is immature and inadequate and you know it.

Gay people exist, regardless of whether you like it or not. Policies are based on common law, not personal biases or religion. Because gay people exist, and want to be married (yes, the word that describes the absolutely non-religious relationship between historically opposite gendered individuals, and is expressly admonished in the bible on multiple occasions by more than one of the apostles.) and that doesn’t affect you in any actually legally significant way, so it should absolutely become law. If you disagree, then please refute the following statement: Religious people shouldn’t get to be married or have kids because they spread stupid.

If you think your government legalizing gay marriage infringes upon your right to believe in Christianity, you have a tiny head and world inside of it. At what point did the government assure you that they would follow all of your beliefs? At what point did your bible say that the country you reside in can’t let gay people get married? It says you can’t fuck other dudes, so that’s your loss, not everyone in America’s.

Seriously, answer this question that others in this thread have asked multiple times: There’s several rules within the pages of the book you people use to defend your bigotry against homosexuals, but there are absolutely zero marches to ban shellfish, pig, or refusing to stone your daughter for disobeying you. Interestingly, Christians only seem to care about this one arbitrary topic even though it has nothing to do with them personally.

 
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Oh, I dunno, blood contact somehow?

 
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Originally posted by VanguardeisBack4:
Originally posted by jhco50:
Originally posted by Winnabago:

Gay people don’t pass their genes very often. Yes. So what? Neither do women who can’t get pregnant. Ban them from getting married as well?

What God wants the law is in no position to say. That’s your church’s decision, not the government’s.

Actually, they pass diseases, like aids. Oh yes, it is a good behavior to participate in as long as you can get the taxpayer to foot the bill for you hospital stay and aids research. It is such a natural behavior…ever hear of a pink sock?

I heard HIV started in Chimps. Then it emerged in the male gay community..

One has to ask… how did the chimps spread HIV to the gay men??

It’s believed to have come from the simian immunodeficiency virus (SIV). Most likely, some one either killed and ate a monkey, cut themselves while butchering one, or was bitten by a monkey that was infected.

Really, I understand the implied joke is that someone went off and had an interspecies relationship with a monkey, but that jokes been done.

Also, where HIV came from doesn’t really seem to matter in this case, as it doesn’t help in battling it.


Actually, they pass diseases, like aids. Oh yes, it is a good behavior to participate in as long as you can get the taxpayer to foot the bill for you hospital stay and aids research. It is such a natural behavior…ever hear of a pink sock?

Because homosexual sex is the only way to spread HIV/AIDS.

 
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Using chimps as food, perhaps?

No hmmm… there.

 
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Arguments in favor of Gay Marriage:
1. Affords Civil Rights to homosexual couples that heterosexual married couples currently benefit from.
2. Provides incentive for social stability and economic stimulus.
3. Expands the rights of individuals without infringing upon or changing the rights of others.
4. Protects faiths that do support homosexual marriages (that are already going on.)
5. Provides orphaned and adopted children with multitudes of much-needed caregivers.
6. Discourages uninformed, hidden promiscuity that can lead to STI.

Arguments against Gay Marriage:
1. It offends me or my religion.
2. Like condoms, oral sex, masturbation, or riding a 2 person bike, it isn’t natural, nor capable of making a baby.
3. I expect my religion to be used as a template for law.
4. I am homophobic and use words like “sanctity” to defend my insecurity.
5. Would kill the population if we don’t think about it too hard.
6. I heard in like the 80s gay people all have AIDS.

Looks like we’re really one for one.

 
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I’ll shoot down your against arguments for you (although anyone should feel free to shoot down the for arguments if you believe that)

1. It offends me or my religion.

Separation of the Church and State exists for exactly this reason.

2. Like condoms, oral sex, masturbation, or riding a 2 person bike, it isn’t natural, nor capable of making a baby.

There’s millions of children with no parents, waiting to be adopted. Why make more?

3. I expect my religion to be used as a template for law.

I expect the Prime Minister to give me daily footrubs. This seems to have fallen through the cracks.

4. I am homophobic and use words like “sanctity” to defend my insecurity.

This one is a jab at the religious right directly; it shoots itself down.

5. Would kill the population if we don’t think about it too hard.

Nice balance for the billions of asians and indians

 
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Originally posted by TheBSG:

Arguments in favor of Gay Marriage:
1. Affords Civil Rights to homosexual couples that heterosexual married couples currently benefit from.
2. Provides incentive for social stability and economic stimulus.
3. Expands the rights of individuals without infringing upon or changing the rights of others.
4. Protects faiths that do support homosexual marriages (that are already going on.)
5. Provides orphaned and adopted children with multitudes of much-needed caregivers.
6. Discourages uninformed, hidden promiscuity that can lead to STI.

Arguments against Gay Marriage:
1. It offends me or my religion.
2. Like condoms, oral sex, masturbation, or riding a 2 person bike, it isn’t natural, nor capable of making a baby.
3. I expect my religion to be used as a template for law.
4. I am homophobic and use words like “sanctity” to defend my insecurity.
5. Would kill the population if we don’t think about it too hard.
6. I heard in like the 80s gay people all have AIDS.

Looks like we’re really one for one.

How does this qualify as serious discussion? This is the classic thing people turn this argument into, just a hate filled propaganda filled mess of accusations. Your arguments don’t help to fuel a good debate. Which is unfortunate because I agree with your side of the argument.

 
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Originally posted by TheBSG:

Did I step into a time machine? Saying gay people spread the aids so they can’t get married is like saying disabled people can’t use stairs so able bodied people can’t use elevators. We figured out that anal sex (something straight couples can and do have) causes aids, and we invented elevators but still let normal people use them if they ask nicely. Kindly keep your opinions out of matters of objective value. Defining homosexual relationships with alternative terms, or attempting to invalidate their experience is immature and inadequate and you know it.

Gay people exist, regardless of whether you like it or not. Policies are based on common law, not personal biases or religion. Because gay people exist, and want to be married (yes, the word that describes the absolutely non-religious relationship between historically opposite gendered individuals, and is expressly admonished in the bible on multiple occasions by more than one of the apostles.) and that doesn’t affect you in any actually legally significant way, so it should absolutely become law. If you disagree, then please refute the following statement: Religious people shouldn’t get to be married or have kids because they spread stupid.

If you think your government legalizing gay marriage infringes upon your right to believe in Christianity, you have a tiny head and world inside of it. At what point did the government assure you that they would follow all of your beliefs? At what point did your bible say that the country you reside in can’t let gay people get married? It says you can’t fuck other dudes, so that’s your loss, not everyone in America’s.

Seriously, answer this question that others in this thread have asked multiple times: There’s several rules within the pages of the book you people use to defend your bigotry against homosexuals, but there are absolutely zero marches to ban shellfish, pig, or refusing to stone your daughter for disobeying you. Interestingly, Christians only seem to care about this one arbitrary topic even though it has nothing to do with them personally.

BSG, where have you been? You kind of dropped off the map there, didn’t you? No, you didn’t step into a time machine. Our discussions were not that long ago.

Policies don’t seem to be changing with the people, only being force fed to the public by our progressive government and liberal judges making their own laws and disregarding the legislation being passed by the voters. Kind of like pandering the minority while spitting at the majority.

Marriage is not a non-religious term. It has been associated with religion for eons. If they wish to have a union or a partnership, fine, but why is it so important to call it a marriage?

I know you are trying to be nasty to me but I can only laugh at the 3rd paragraph, I’m sorry. Just keep in mind, I’m not all that religious. I just know what is written in the book. Long story behind that, but not for here.

Lets be honest here, it is not bigotry really. I think that is an overused word. It’s kind of like the overuse of the racism thing. I will have to check on the shellfish thing, I just have missed that. Pig was made ok in the New Testament and stoning was, as far as I know used for daughters disobeying, although I will check that out too.

It’s not just Christians BSG, Christians are not the majority in this country. Many think homosexuality is wrong and not just between males.

It’s good to see you and have a good headbutting contest with you.

 
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but why is it so important to call it a marriage?

Do you think God speaks English? This is a common incorrect view in Christians. They picture him as an entity who uses words to communicate. Don’t get me wrong, he can speak English, but that’s only because that’s OUR limitation, not his. Do you really think God is going to get angry if we let two guys into a “marriage,” but he is totally cool if we legalize that two men can be in a “partnership.” Fact is, there are two types of marriage, the legal one, and the one between God. Most Christians can’t get by this idea. Homosexuals are looking for permission to get legally united into a marriage, a marriage that is respected by the government. They aren’t asking for permission to get married by God. And if they were, they wouldn’t be asking you!! That would be between them and God.

Also, Why is it so important to you that it can’t be called marriage?
Your playing over words, which mean nothing. I imagine in a hundred years, people will look back at this and say “lol, they seriously were offended to call it marriage?”

Do you thinking we should only use the word sex when it involves a man and a woman?
Perhaps, we should use a different word for kiss, when two men make out.
Marriage is just a word.

 
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Originally posted by pacaholic:
but why is it so important to call it a marriage?

Do you think God speaks English? This is a common incorrect view in Christians. They picture him as an entity who uses words to communicate. Don’t get me wrong, he can speak English, but that’s only because that’s OUR limitation, not his. Do you really think God is going to get angry if we let two guys into a “marriage,” but he is totally cool if we legalize that two men can be in a “partnership.” Fact is, there are two types of marriage, the legal one, and the one between God. Most Christians can’t get by this idea. Homosexuals are looking for permission to get legally united into a marriage, a marriage that is respected by the government. They aren’t asking for permission to get married by God. And if they were, they wouldn’t be asking you!! That would be between them and God.

Also, Why is it so important to you that it can’t be called marriage?
Your playing over words, which mean nothing. I imagine in a hundred years, people will look back at this and say “lol, they seriously were offended to call it marriage?”

Do you thinking we should only use the word sex when it involves a man and a woman?
Perhaps, we should use a different word for kiss, when two men make out.
Marriage is just a word.

Of course not, homosexuality is considered blasphemy in any form. I’m just offering an alternative to the the sanctity of marriage. There is that word BSG. If people don’t want what they honor to be defiled, it is their prerogative. I honestly think the gays want a sanctioned marriage because they want to destroy what most people consider normal. Why else would they parade around, make fools of themselves, and taunt the public. As I have said many times, I don’t care what they do in their bedroom, but I do care when they get in my face.

 
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You don’t get upset that homosexuals can “kiss” or have “sex” but you will get upset if they can “marry?”

Simply put, the only logical way to explain this is bigotry, and trust me, I hate when people overuse the word bigot. It’s just a word though man (referring to marriage). Also, you really didn’t even answer most of the questions i brought up…

 
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I try not to get too deep in this subject as I get silenced a lot. :) I’m trying to be good. Like I said, I really don’t care what they do in their bedroom. They just can’t keep it there. Just like this, and for awhile almost every other thread being about gays. It gets old real quick. Yes, it irritates me that they want to take what heterosexuals consider their traditions and beliefs and destroy it in the name of “equality”. I don’t consider this a play on words, it is my feelings and opinion on the subject.

I honestly believe that most, I will not say all, gay lifestyles are chosen. Many of those just to make a statement. The rest I honestly believe is a mental disorder. The true gays are most likely the quiet ones, the others are just trying to be a spectacle for all to see. “Oh look at me, I am different.” All they have to do is be quiet and stop trying to disrupt normal society and people would ignore them, but they can’t. they must advertise. It is showboating.

As far as the Christian beliefs go, I support most of them. Both Christianity and Atheism are other things showboated on this forum. Both of them get old too. I don’t care if God speaks English or not. In reality, I believe he was Jewish and probably spoke his native language. Christians believe in their god and their bible and this is great. I have my doubts about some of it, but I respect them for it. I’m sure God has his eye on me for my discretions as well. :)

Sex is sex. Words mean things and are not just words. The gays stole normal words and changed the meanings. Gay used to mean you were happy. Fags used to be cigarettes. All words that have been corrupted because of them. At least women use a word I never heard used any other way, Lesbian.

 
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Originally posted by jhco50:

I try not to get too deep in this subject as I get silenced a lot. :) I’m trying to be good. Like I said, I really don’t care what they do in their bedroom. They just can’t keep it there. Just like this, and for awhile almost every other thread being about gays. It gets old real quick. Yes, it irritates me that they want to take what heterosexuals consider their traditions and beliefs and destroy it in the name of “equality”. I don’t consider this a play on words, it is my feelings and opinion on the subject.

I honestly believe that most, I will not say all, gay lifestyles are chosen. Many of those just to make a statement. The rest I honestly believe is a mental disorder. The true gays are most likely the quiet ones, the others are just trying to be a spectacle for all to see. “Oh look at me, I am different.” All they have to do is be quiet and stop trying to disrupt normal society and people would ignore them, but they can’t. they must advertise. It is showboating.

I see that you won’t address any of my points. It’s very sad but it seems to me like you aren’t very open minded about this subject. I encourage you to actually address my points, so that I can address yours.

 
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Originally posted by pacaholic:
Originally posted by jhco50:

I try not to get too deep in this subject as I get silenced a lot. :) I’m trying to be good. Like I said, I really don’t care what they do in their bedroom. They just can’t keep it there. Just like this, and for awhile almost every other thread being about gays. It gets old real quick. Yes, it irritates me that they want to take what heterosexuals consider their traditions and beliefs and destroy it in the name of “equality”. I don’t consider this a play on words, it is my feelings and opinion on the subject.

I honestly believe that most, I will not say all, gay lifestyles are chosen. Many of those just to make a statement. The rest I honestly believe is a mental disorder. The true gays are most likely the quiet ones, the others are just trying to be a spectacle for all to see. “Oh look at me, I am different.” All they have to do is be quiet and stop trying to disrupt normal society and people would ignore them, but they can’t. they must advertise. It is showboating.

I see that you won’t address any of my points. It’s very sad but it seems to me like you aren’t very open minded about this subject. I encourage you to actually address my points, so that I can address yours.

I am not really very open minded about this subject. I tried to answer your points without gettng too involved. Sorry, silence is not always golden and it seems debaters on these kind of threads go ballistic if you discuss to much.