Gay Marriage page 4

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Originally posted by Stiltonchees:

Honestly I’d be fine changing both heterosexual and homosexual “marriages” into “civil unions” for the sake of legal terminology, then we can transfer all the rights over to a civil union, and the religious institutions can keep their term marriage. That way we can preserve the “sanctity of marriage” (as if such a thing ever existed in the first place) and we can allow for equal rights.

You might, I would not. Two main reasons. One, I don’t see capitulating to bigots is a healthy response. Two, Marriage is not a term they own, it is not their’s to “keep” or define. Marriage has always been the civil recognition of a family. Religious groups perform weddings, and decide if they “recognise” a particular marriage as valid, nothing more. There is no reason to take their recognition of a marriage as valid as legally meaningful. No doubt many churches refused to recognise the validity of interracial marriages after they were legalised, and that is the limit of their right to the concept of marriage.

Frankly, given the power to, they would all likely refuse to recognise the marriage of anyone outside of their sect as valid. Not “married before god” and so on. Often enough they suggest that those marriage in civil ceremonies should also get married in the church separately to make it “real”.

The only reason I can see to capitulate is that you think the fight is too hard or unwinnable.

Marriage is in essence inviting someone to formally enter my family, and that is nobodies business to say me no. I’d even suggest that the concept should be broadened to include non-sexual relationships between any number of people or any gender.

 
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If gay marriage is federally legalized, I support marriage to animals and family. Especially family. You cannot help with whom you consensually love!

 
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I do not get why gay people are unhappy if their unions are called ‘civil unions’ instead of Marriage.

What is the difference if both have equal rights?

Marriage has been used as a term in religion for thousands of years.

I say allow all gays to enter a civil union with the same exact rights.
Then deny religious people from entering a civil union.

Now both sides get their own little term for a ‘joining’.

Problem solved.

 
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Originally posted by DarkBaron:

If gay marriage is federally legalized, I support marriage to animals and family. Especially family. You cannot help with whom you consensually love!

Animals? Probably not, as they wouldnt be able to properly comprehend the meaning of it.
Family? Sure, why not?

 
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Marriage has been used as a term without linking it to religion for thousands of years as well.

I say allow all churches to marry people into religious unions (depending on the religion, for example “Calvinist Union”).

Then deny people outside that religion from entering a religious union.

Now both sides get their own little term for a ‘joining’. And additionally the one that is actually important because it has legal consequences and therefore will be used much more will be the one already in use, so people don’t have to re-think.

Problem solved.

 
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Originally posted by DarkBaron:

If gay marriage is federally legalized, I support marriage to animals and family. Especially family. You cannot help with whom you consensually love!

Animals cannot sign contracts. Family members are already in your family. I fail to see the point.

 
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Originally posted by EPR89:

Marriage has been used as a term without linking it to religion for thousands of years as well.

I say allow all churches to marry people into religious unions (depending on the religion, for example “Calvinist Union”).

Then deny people outside that religion from entering a religious union.

Now both sides get their own little term for a ‘joining’. And additionally the one that is actually important because it has legal consequences and therefore will be used much more will be the one already in use, so people don’t have to re-think.

Problem solved.

This. Its the term marriage. If they want to be legally bonded, or have a civil union feel free to. But don’t call it marriage, because it isn’t.

 
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And how is equal rights favouring the minority?

At Scoopolard.

 
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that first part just reveals how fucked up ur moral compass

If you have any objective reasoning why two adults shouldn’t be allowed to marry each other, I’d love to hear it.

that last part sounds awfully like the needs of the few outweigh the needs of the many…interesting.

Well you may have a point there. Christians sure do seem to have a need to oppress people.

 
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Originally posted by Spaghedeity:
that first part just reveals how fucked up ur moral compass

If you have any objective reasoning why two adults shouldn’t be allowed to marry each other, I’d love to hear it.

that last part sounds awfully like the needs of the few outweigh the needs of the many…interesting.

Well you may have a point there. Christians sure do seem to have a need to oppress people.

Two adults don’t marry eachother only if they are related.

And secondly, thats not what he said at all.

 
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Two adults don’t marry eachother only if they are related.

Why not?

And secondly, thats not what he said at all.

Well I can’t think of any other reason Christians need to keep gays from being allowed to marry.

 
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Why should related people be banned from marriage?

The last part sounds a bit like “Equal rights for the few outweighs the delicate sensibilities of the many”. That is why segregation does not exist anymore in the United States. That is why women can vote.

(ninja’d)

 
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Originally posted by Winnabago:

Why should related people be banned from marriage?

The last part sounds a bit like “Equal rights for the few outweighs the delicate sensibilities of the many”. That is why segregation does not exist anymore in the United States. That is why women can vote.

(ninja’d)

But they do have equal rights. Just not under the same term because marriage is between a man and a woman.

 
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The christians (and members of other faiths) who are against gay marriage seem to be under the mistaken impression that they comprise the majority population. What they don’t seem to understand is that as a religious bloc, they are as much a ‘minority’ grouping as the homosexuals. Which means that by demanding that the whole of civil society follow their interpretation of their religious laws, they’re doing exactly the same thing that they accuse homosexuals of doing, using minority status to subvert the rights of the majority. I don’t pretend to know the history of the term, but it’s very clear that ‘marriage’ no longer specifically denotes a religious sacrament, but has fallen into common place usage to refer to any civil union. Gay couples have every right to be recognized as a ‘marriage’ under civil law; they just don’t have a right to force religions to recognize their civil unions as ‘marriage’ by that religion’s definition.

This is how the law works in Canada and a few other countries. I’m not gay myself, but it seems pretty reasonable, and not likely to lead to bestiality or pedophilia, as critics consistently insist. At least not for a few decades, and let’s be honest, the society that never changes is a pipe dream.

 
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Civil unions do not confer the federal entitlements to marriage — civil unions are by the state and awarded whichever rights the state deem necessary; thus a civil union is, as it currently stands, not a substitute for a federal marriage.

 
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Marriage isn’t a religious ceremony anymore. It ties deeply into legalities now. Stop spewing this bullshit.

 
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Gay couples have every right to be recognized as a ‘marriage’ under civil law; they just don’t have a right to force religions to recognize them civil unions as ‘marriage’ by that religion’s definition.

I think Christianity and Islam make up the majority of the human population. Probably well over even half.

Im not sure Christianity is very adamant on defining any one word like it is on Marriage. Why do they want to be married? It is and mostly has been for the past 2 millenium.

 
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Originally posted by GameCrazyKid:

But they do have equal rights. Just not under the same term.

If they do not have the same right to marry a consenting adult they are in love with, then they do not have the same rights.

Originally posted by DarkBaron:

Civil unions do not confer the federal entitlements to marriage — civil unions are by the state and awarded whichever rights the state deem necessary; thus a civil union is, as it currently stands, not a substitute for a federal marriage.

All that means is, making damn sure a civil union is functionally equal to a marriage in every legal way, is where our attention should be focussing.

 
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All that means is, making damn sure a civil union is functionally equal to a marriage in every legal way, is where our attention should be focussing.

Agreed. It is, indeed, where we should be fo/cuss/ing. Wink.

 
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Originally posted by vikaTae:
Originally posted by GameCrazyKid:

But they do have equal rights. Just not under the same term.

If they do not have the same right to marry a consenting adult they are in love with, then they do not have the same rights.

Yes they do, just like anyone else they have the right to marry someone of the opposite sex. If I wanted to marry someone the same sex of me I cannot do that same as them. We have equal rights.

 
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Originally posted by Spaghedeity:
Yes they do, just like anyone else they have the right to marry someone of the opposite sex.

How can they have the right to marry someone of the opposite sex if marriage is only between a man and a woman?

Reread your sentence.

 
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Why would a gay man want to marry a woman?

 
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Originally posted by Spaghedeity:

Why would a gay man want to marry a woman?

As a cover.

 
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Why the heck would someone marry someone as cover, other than fear/taboos?