Abortion page 117

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Originally posted by FlabbyWoofWoof:
Originally posted by MyTie:

I misquoted you, and fixed it, karma.

Do you have diagnosed psychological issues?

He might very well have…but at least he wouldn’t force a woman to risk her life for a dead fetus.

Sneaking into a hospital wearing a nurses uniform to stick your hand in sedated women about to give birth? Ok. Pro-Life? That’s just nuts.

 
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Originally posted by simeng:
Originally posted by FlabbyWoofWoof:

He might very well have…but at least he wouldn’t force a woman to risk her life for a dead fetus.

The risk of giving birth to a death fetus can be logically rationalized

Please expand.
 
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Originally posted by MyTie:
Originally posted by FlabbyWoofWoof:
Originally posted by MyTie:

I misquoted you, and fixed it, karma.

Do you have diagnosed psychological issues?

He might very well have…but at least he wouldn’t force a woman to risk her life for a dead fetus.

Sneaking into a hospital wearing a nurses uniform to stick your hand in sedated women about to give birth? Ok. Pro-Life? That’s just nuts.

Most women delievering babies ARE NOT SEDATED.

AND, what part of massaging the perineum do YOU not understand? Unless ya think I did it from “the-inside-out”. Hmmmmm….why didn’t I think of that?

 
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Sneaking into a hospital to give out massages for any reason, then. That’s you. Flabby’s saying that somehow I’m the crazy one, as I’m too pro-life.

 
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MyTie…read the quote…

He might very well have…but at least he wouldn’t force a woman to risk her life for a dead fetus.

Where in all of that did I say you were the crazy? I said that even if Karma is ‘crazy’, at least he doen’t wish to force a woman to risk her life for a dead fetus. You read into that one wrong. I don’t think you’re crazy, I think your view is sickening.

 
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Ok. I’ll buy that.

It is good that he wouldn’t do that. Who would?

 
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It is good that he wouldn’t do that. Who would?

You would, if you had the power to make abortion illegal. But if this is another of your “I’m implying shit, but when you point it out, I’ll just say I never meant it that way”, we’re cool. You’d like abortion to be legal, or not? I remember asking this question before, but I forgot your answer.

To stick with an easier question: Should abortion be legal for women that would otherwise give birth to a dead fetus, or die if they give birth? If you reject this, you are indeed forcing women to risk their lives for a dead fetus.

 
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Originally posted by Darkruler2005:

I can’t feel sorry for a woman who takes the chance of becoming pregnant for a few minutes of pleasure.

What kind of a horrible being are you that you invoke a baby as punishment?

The baby isn’t a punishment. It is the result of stupidity and does not deserve to die because it’s mother is a few bricks shy of an outhouse.

 
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Originally posted by Darkruler2005:

I can’t feel sorry for a woman who takes the chance of becoming pregnant for a few minutes of pleasure.

What kind of a horrible being are you that you invoke a baby as punishment?

The baby isn’t a punishment. It is the result of stupidity and does not deserve to die because it’s mother is a few bricks shy of an outhouse.

Originally posted by FlabbyWoofWoof:
Originally posted by MyTie:

I misquoted you, and fixed it, karma.


Do you have diagnosed psychological issues?


He might very well have…but at least he wouldn’t force a woman to risk her life for a dead fetus.

It’s kind of unfair and really hitting below the belt to attack MyTie for a decision his wife was a partner in. I really think attacking him on that should be dropped.

 
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OR EVEN a “brain-dead” one. YET, I am well aware that such happens very frequently….all the more a reason for abortion to remain legal.

PLUS, I won’t even revist the many “live-brain”-inspired reasons (most of them already presented on this vaunted forum),,,,,,other than to say: Stay out of a woman’s body….regardless of how strongly it is reputed to be very “pleasurable”.

ABORTION IS LEGAL….deal w/ it.
The morality of it can be debated until the cows come home.
Personally, I give a shit if someone wants to be against it…for whatever reason.
This is because abortion is just that: PERSONAL.

This is an unfortunate circumstance and a natural process that sometimes happens. It lowers the standard of the left to use this as a political point to push for abortion. It is not considered an abortion but a medical procedure at this point.

There is absolutely no reason to kill fetus that has developed a brain. That is why abortion has so many enemies and why people are not convince of the utility of abortion.

Actually, you should give a shit as the possibility of a reversal of Roe vs Wade is possible if the Supreme Court continues to be conservative. It has been mentioned on the news recently. If you are driving away potential supporters, you will lose your precious abortion legality.

 
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Nah, don’t think so. The people are 50/50. And since the basics for making abortions outright illegal are not yet clearly determined (most importantly personhood) it will still be a while until that is even close to happening. Until then we will have the regulations we have right now and on top of that it stays the woman’s decision. No one can force her to have an abortion and no one can force her not to have one as long as that is what she thinks is best for her.

I don’t even know how you would go at defining those basics with what we know right now. Leaving it up to the individual (with some regulations, like obligatory talk to a doctor and a psychologist about the procedure and a limit after which an abortion should only be legal in special cases. Where that limit is? Again: I don’t know for sure.) seems to me to be the most reasonable option.

 
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The baby isn’t a punishment. It is the result of stupidity and does not deserve to die because it’s mother is a few bricks shy of an outhouse.

We’ve talked about this too. Then you invoke punishment upon the baby by forcing it to be put up for adoption (long waiting lines) or having the chance to be treated poorly by the mother who preferred an abortion. Are you willing to take that chance?

 
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And as we have discussed before there is always adoption, maybe even by the grandparents. There are so many options that you ignore in order to make abortion sound like the only way to rid yourself of any responsibility. Yes, I would take that chance.

 
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Originally posted by jhco50:
Originally posted by FlabbyWoofWoof:
Originally posted by MyTie:

I misquoted you, and fixed it, karma.


Do you have diagnosed psychological issues?


He might very well have…but at least he wouldn’t force a woman to risk her life for a dead fetus.


It’s kind of unfair and really hitting below the belt to attack MyTie for a decision his wife was a partner in. I really think attacking him on that should be dropped.

I’m not attacking MyTie for his decision, in my previous posts I’ve said that I am glad that at least he and his wife had a choice. What I’m attacking is his stance that no woman should be allowed to even have that choice even when their life is in danger. That is what I am attacking, not MyTies decision…but his wanting to take that choice away from women.

 
Flag Post
Originally posted by FlabbyWoofWoof:
Originally posted by jhco50:
Originally posted by FlabbyWoofWoof:
Originally posted by MyTie:

I misquoted you, and fixed it, karma.


Do you have diagnosed psychological issues?


He might very well have…but at least he wouldn’t force a woman to risk her life for a dead fetus.


It’s kind of unfair and really hitting below the belt to attack MyTie for a decision his wife was a partner in. I really think attacking him on that should be dropped.


I’m not attacking MyTie for his decision, in my previous posts I’ve said that I am glad that at least he and his wife had a choice. What I’m attacking is his stance that no woman should be allowed to even have that choice even when their life is in danger. That is what I am attacking, not MyTies decision…but his wanting to take that choice away from women.

How about this?

Abortion is a circumstantially dependent issue based on intentions in spite of pregnancy. Abortion should be implemented in intervention if (and only if) its birth would invoke potentially life-threatening conditions upon the maternal patron of procreation. On the other hand, if the birth would not seriously endanger the mother, then abortion should be avoided at all reasonable costs since it would only be a trivial matter of personal convenience and thus violate the validity of rational morality which is, via all measures of determination, apt to ascertain the greatest possible outcome from a provided set of optional devices.

Hands down, there is no final ruling on the process of abortion and it should vary by the individual contexts of evaluation. The only constant is the rationality involved. You need to consider things from all angles and logically analyze given means.

 
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Has anyone here ever had an abortion?
Is anyone here currently in a relationship or close friendship with someone who has had an abortion?

I don’t presume to know the personal impact of having an abortion, and I currently don’t have any close friends (to my knowledge) who have had one.

 
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Originally posted by Azolf:

Has anyone here ever had an abortion?
Is anyone here currently in a relationship or close friendship with someone who has had an abortion?

Wait, how exactly does that matter for what we’re discussing?

I’ve a man, so I don’t presume to fathom the personal impact of having one, and I currently don’t have any close friends (to my knowledge) who have had one.

That’s partially because, like most everything else with pregnancy, it varies from woman to woman.

 
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Originally posted by Darkruler2005:You would

I’d never force a woman to carry a dead baby in her womb. I never said I would. Is this some weird caricature of my view, or some kind of ugly straw man?

Originally posted by FlabbyWoofWoof:
Originally posted by jhco50:
Originally posted by FlabbyWoofWoof:
Originally posted by MyTie:

I misquoted you, and fixed it, karma.


Do you have diagnosed psychological issues?


He might very well have…but at least he wouldn’t force a woman to risk her life for a dead fetus.


It’s kind of unfair and really hitting below the belt to attack MyTie for a decision his wife was a partner in. I really think attacking him on that should be dropped.


I’m not attacking MyTie for his decision, in my previous posts I’ve said that I am glad that at least he and his wife had a choice. What I’m attacking is his stance that no woman should be allowed to even have that choice even when their life is in danger. That is what I am attacking, not MyTies decision…but his wanting to take that choice away from women.

Let him jhco. I really like it when he attacks me on the topic of abortion. It makes me feel really really good that his views are opposite of mine. It makes me smile when he insults me. I mean that. I get a genuine warm feeling in my heart. The day he agrees with me, I know I’ve got something wrong.

 
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It might be interesting to hear the voice of personal experience on this issue instead making it a soap box for religious, political, and scientific views.

I’m simply saying that the point is moot and a bunch of men posting about on a website don’t really have the inside track on the personal implications of the abortion.

 
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Originally posted by Azolf:

It might be interesting to hear the voice of personal experience on this one, instead making, what is at it’s heart a very personal matter, a soap box for religious, political, and scientific views.

I’m simply saying that the point is moot and a bunch of men posting about on a website don’t really the inside track on the personal implications of the issue.

I was born. That’s my personal experience in avoiding abortion.

 
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Originally posted by MyTie:
Originally posted by Azolf:

It might be interesting to hear the voice of personal experience on this one, instead making, what is at it’s heart a very personal matter, a soap box for religious, political, and scientific views.

I’m simply saying that the point is moot and a bunch of men posting about on a website don’t really the inside track on the personal implications of the issue.

I was born. That’s my personal experience in avoiding abortion.

Me too :-)
Life’s been hard, but I’m glad I survived that fetal stage where I wasn’t a viable human being yet.

 
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Originally posted by tenco1:
Originally posted by Azolf:

Has anyone here ever had an abortion?
Is anyone here currently in a relationship or close friendship with someone who has had an abortion?

Wait, how exactly does that matter for what we’re discussing?

I’ve a man, so I don’t presume to fathom the personal impact of having one, and I currently don’t have any close friends (to my knowledge) who have had one.

That’s partially because, like most everything else with pregnancy, it varies from woman to woman.

I agree with both Azolf and simeng.

None of us has had an abortion and really don’t know the effects on the woman emotionally or physically. Not everything can be learned from the internet or Wikipedia.

I just filled out a survey from the RNC and one of the questions on there was, do I support reversing Roe vs Wade. This is the second time this has come up. Because of this thread and my own beliefs I marked yes.

 
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Originally posted by jhco50:
Not everything can be learned from the internet or Wikipedia.

No, not everything; a lot, but not everything.

And I will say this yet again; every woman is different and the effects will also be different, there is no set reaction to it.

Originally posted by MyTie:

Let him jhco. I really like it when he attacks me on the topic of abortion. It makes me feel really really good that his views are opposite of mine. It makes me smile when he insults me. I mean that. I get a genuine warm feeling in my heart. The day he agrees with me, I know I’ve got something wrong.

Yeah, I’m going to guess that you either didn’t read what he said, or just didn’t understand it.

Originally posted by MyTie:

I’d never force a woman to carry a dead baby in her womb. I never said I would. Is this some weird caricature of my view, or some kind of ugly straw man?

Yeah, way to take all of that context out of that post to make you sound better.

Also, you kinda did, what with the part about wanting all abortions to be illegal (this is where the forcing part comes into place), and that would include when it’s either dead, or better off dead (i.e genetic defect, or not really going to be able to live without lots of life-support for the rest of its life.)

 
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Yes, I saw that the first time and agree with that statement. Everyone, not just women, is different.

 
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And as we have discussed before there is always adoption

Are you living in an illusion world where adoption rates are incredibly high and kids being given up for adoption incrediby low? If not, why suggest to torture the kid without a real mother and not even real motherly attention given to them for some time?

I’d never force a woman to carry a dead baby in her womb.

Great! We both agree that abortion should be legal! (At the very least in those cases.)