Abortion page 3

3075 posts

Flag Post

If everything has a right to life, you better apologize to those bacteria in your stomach right now.

If things with human DNA have a right to life, you better apologize to your popped pimples.

If things with the potential to be fully-formed humans have the right to life, then the mere existence of sperm and eggs in existence means they all have a right to life, and need to become human beings.

If things that are in the process of developing into fully-formed humans have a right to life, then a substantial percentage of conceived babies that never live past the “chimera” stage must be saved.

If things capable of higher brain function have a right to life, then first trimester pregnancies, and second trimester pregnancies to a point, are OK.

TAO: There is always some chance the mother would be able to take care of a child. She could win the lottery.

 
Flag Post
Originally posted by Darkruler2005:

Same old, same old. You know that most of your fallacious arguments have already been shot down, right?

why is a fetus not legitimately considered a life?

Why is a fly not? Why are fish not? We kill animals, insects, plants and even bacteria on a daily basis. Hourly or even by the second, perhaps. What makes human life special? So why should a fetus get advantages over a fly?

Secondly, if a woman didn’t want to have a baby, why was she having unprotected sex?

For fun. Sex is not only used to make babies, regardless of what you may think.

(Yes, I realize the circumstances of rape can go against this but that doesn’t make it untrue. Because not all abortions are rape abortions. Most aren’t I would assume)

So you agree that abortions in the case of rape are acceptable?

Do any of you SD’ers have a child? You probably don’t, but do you know someone with a small child? When you look at your child, or your friend’s child, would you find it easy to tell a doctor to kill it?

1. Emotional appeal.
2. A fetus is not a baby.
3. If the child is in constant pain, with a deadly disease, and cannot be helped, then yes, I would. Would you not?

And, while it is always a choice in abortion does the baby have no say in it? Who knows who he could grow up to be!

Yes, it might become a mass murderer. Or the next Hitler. Or perhaps your lazy neighbour who feeds off the social system. Also, a fetus is not a baby.

Also, it isn’t like you have to keep the child if you legitimately aren’t ready to be a parent, there are adoption options.

Which happens after 9 months of carriage and being forced to go through birthing it.

1. Humans have a higher sense of personality and intelligence. Is a baby straight out of the womb not that much greater than a baby 1 day before?

2. Its their own responsibility.

3. Not quite, I don’t think they have to keep the baby, and while I am sympathetic for the situation I cannot excuse personal comfort for an entire life. Someone who will probably endure something worse than birth and something equally joyful. Had they gotten the chance to have a life.

3a What?
3b. Not much difference, just a level of development. Thats like saying an 4 year old isn’t a human being because it hasn’t finished developping. Being in the womb is more or less a second childhood. They have to grow from somewhere. Duh.
3c. That isn’t the point. Why do you bring up such awful situations in comparison to a child that as far as we know does not have some horrible disease.

4. Yes, it might also become a good person and saying “Yeah, well it could become the next hitler” Is just too stupid for someone with 15000 posts to still be thinking. And a fetus IS a baby. A smaller baby. Like a child is a small teenager, and a teenager is a small adult. Its just an earlier stage of development.

5. And the person doesn’t find it worth it to go through that for the sake of a life?

 
Flag Post
Originally posted by TheAwsomeOpossum:

Hmmm… I would say there are a few cases where abortion is valid.

First off… if the mother is going to die.
Second off… if the child is going to die.
Third… rape and incest cases, where depression is a problem
And an iffy fourth… where there is no chance at all that the mother will be able to take care of the child

With the third and the fourth though… I would hope they would go through, and at least give it a try. Or have the child be adopted over being aborted. Unlikely though, to happen.

I think the only thing you could do government wise to prevent this is… making them fill out TONS of paperwork. But eh, that isn’t exactly fair for some cases.

You make adoption seem like a valid alternative. The adoption system is currently overflowing with kids who aren’t being adopted.

 
Flag Post
Originally posted by CanadianOverlord:
Originally posted by TheAwsomeOpossum:

Hmmm… I would say there are a few cases where abortion is valid.

First off… if the mother is going to die.
Second off… if the child is going to die.
Third… rape and incest cases, where depression is a problem
And an iffy fourth… where there is no chance at all that the mother will be able to take care of the child

With the third and the fourth though… I would hope they would go through, and at least give it a try. Or have the child be adopted over being aborted. Unlikely though, to happen.

I think the only thing you could do government wise to prevent this is… making them fill out TONS of paperwork. But eh, that isn’t exactly fair for some cases.

You make adoption seem like a valid alternative. The adoption system is currently overflowing with kids who aren’t being adopted.

Citations.

 
Flag Post
Originally posted by iMachine:

How can you kill someone without giving someone else the moral right to, in the same circunstances, kill you?

First of all, does morality exist? And if so, why?

I assume you do not desire to be killed…

Depends on how I am killed.

Morality, in the senser of a specific, universal moral, does not exist. What there DO exists is each one morality. And I would rather stick with mine… Unless you have a good reason for me not to, that is…

 
Flag Post

Almost no abortion supporters think abortion should be legal one day before, and that is banned in Roe vs. Wade with a few exceptions. Citations if you want them.

If a conceived human is a baby, then a sperm is half a baby, meaning two sperms are a baby, meaning genocide is committed every time someone has sex.

 
Flag Post
You make adoption seem like a valid alternative. The adoption system is currently overflowing with kids who aren’t being adopted.

What does this actually have to do with legalizing abortion?

 
Flag Post
Originally posted by axlkoegoskyeg:
Originally posted by iMachine:

How can you kill someone without giving someone else the moral right to, in the same circunstances, kill you?

First of all, does morality exist? And if so, why?

I assume you do not desire to be killed…

Depends on how I am killed.

Morality, in the senser of a specific, universal moral, does not exist. What there DO exists is each one morality. And I would rather stick with mine… Unless you have a good reason for me not to, that is…

But if morality is nothing more than subjective ‘morals’, why should one take it into account when one discuss legislation such as abortion, etc?

 
Flag Post
Originally posted by Spaghedeity:
You make adoption seem like a valid alternative. The adoption system is currently overflowing with kids who aren’t being adopted.

What does this actually have to do with legalizing abortion?

If you can’t abort, and can’t keep the child for whatever reason, what else is there?

 
Flag Post
Originally posted by Winnabago:

Almost no abortion supporters think abortion should be legal one day before, and that is banned in Roe vs. Wade with a few exceptions. Citations if you want them.

If a conceived human is a baby, then a sperm is half a baby, meaning two sperms are a baby, meaning genocide is committed every time someone has sex.

1. But it IS. Do you know how late term abortions are performed? Google It.

2. You are right about this. It is actually in the bible.

 
Flag Post
Originally posted by CanadianOverlord:
Originally posted by Spaghedeity:
You make adoption seem like a valid alternative. The adoption system is currently overflowing with kids who aren’t being adopted.

What does this actually have to do with legalizing abortion?

If you can’t abort, and can’t keep the child for whatever reason, what else is there?

Still no citations

 
This post has been removed by an administrator or moderator
 
Flag Post

It is actually in the bible.

I like where this is going.
Not really.

 
Flag Post
Originally posted by iMachine:

It is actually in the bible.

I like where this is going.
Not really.

He acted like I didn’t consider a sperm a life.

(To be fair though, it is really more of a “seed” of a life. Not like a fetus, a fetus is a sprout. Still a life, just people arent giving it the chance to turn into a plant.)

 
Flag Post
Originally posted by iMachine:
Originally posted by axlkoegoskyeg:
Originally posted by iMachine:

How can you kill someone without giving someone else the moral right to, in the same circunstances, kill you?

First of all, does morality exist? And if so, why?

I assume you do not desire to be killed…

Depends on how I am killed.

Morality, in the senser of a specific, universal moral, does not exist. What there DO exists is each one morality. And I would rather stick with mine… Unless you have a good reason for me not to, that is…

But if morality is nothing more than subjective ‘morals’, why should one take it into account when one discuss legislation such as abortion, etc?

Because everybody, even at a subconscient level, bases pretty much their entire behavior in their morals. Except for sociopaths, of course.

I know you are about to say that I am thinking on empathy, but actually, empathy are the basis of morals: Whenever I ask myself if something is moral, I ask myself if it would bring more joy then pain overral…

 
Flag Post

I don’t think the same “Its not your business” argument that is commonly used on gay marriage can be used here. Saying “If you don’t like abortions, don’t get one” is like telling me “If you don’t like murders, don’t kill people.”

And, while killing a fully developed person is worse than abortion, Abortion is still inherently the taking of a life. For what is usually inconvenience

(Strange to see a lot of atheists on my side though.)

 
Flag Post
Originally posted by GameCrazyKid:
Originally posted by Winnabago:

Almost no abortion supporters think abortion should be legal one day before, and that is banned in Roe vs. Wade with a few exceptions. Citations if you want them.

If a conceived human is a baby, then a sperm is half a baby, meaning two sperms are a baby, meaning genocide is committed every time someone has sex.

1. But it IS. Do you know how late term abortions are performed? Google It.

2. You are right about this. It is actually in the bible.

1. According to Wiki, the states get to decide what to do with late-term abortions. You like state’s rights, right?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Late_termination_of_pregnancy
2. Thus, we should ban all sex.

Whenever you eat anything that is linked to something alive (basically almost everything but artificial flavors and colors, and salt), you take lives. Ban food.

 
Flag Post

I am positive I have never gone against abortion on these forums. I challenge you to find a post of mine going against abortion. This is your, being anyone’s, chance to prove a fool of me — go for it. Find me a single post on this forum where I’ve gone against abortion — I dare you to. You won’t find any — that’s how sure I am that I’m being strawmanned here. It’s almost as though I’ve consistently argued the opposite and know I would never argue against it… Fancy that. Happy searching.

 
Flag Post
Originally posted by Winnabago:
Originally posted by GameCrazyKid:
Originally posted by Winnabago:

Almost no abortion supporters think abortion should be legal one day before, and that is banned in Roe vs. Wade with a few exceptions. Citations if you want them.

If a conceived human is a baby, then a sperm is half a baby, meaning two sperms are a baby, meaning genocide is committed every time someone has sex.

1. But it IS. Do you know how late term abortions are performed? Google It.

2. You are right about this. It is actually in the bible.

1. According to Wiki, the states get to decide what to do with late-term abortions. You like state’s rights, right?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Late_termination_of_pregnancy
2. Thus, we should ban all sex.

2. Thus, we should ban gay marriage. All I said it is in the bible. Its being in the bible is not the basis for my argument.

 
Flag Post

Because everybody, even at a subconscient level, bases pretty much their entire behavior in their morals. Except for sociopaths, of course.

But if peoples’ morals are different, why does this matter?

I know you are about to say that I am thinking on empathy, but actually, empathy are the basis of morals:
Whenever I ask myself if something is moral, I ask myself if it would bring more joy then pain overral…

But you just said that there is no such thing as moral or immoral. That there are only individual morals.

 
Flag Post
Originally posted by iMachine:

Because everybody, even at a subconscient level, bases pretty much their entire behavior in their morals. Except for sociopaths, of course.

But if peoples’ morals are different, why does this matter?

I know you are about to say that I am thinking on empathy, but actually, empathy are the basis of morals:
Whenever I ask myself if something is moral, I ask myself if it would bring more joy then pain overral…

But you just said that there is no such thing as moral or immoral. That there are only individual morals.

And if the majority of individuals agree that a fetus is a life, then why go against the majority on this one? Because it does affect them. What if a man’s wife got an abortion without telling him?

 
Flag Post

You have yet to quote the Bible, so saying it’s in the Bible is irrelevant, as you have no Bible quotes related to abortion, and if you want to talk about gay marriage, there’s a thread for that.

Fact is, in sex, only two sperm, max, find an egg, unless something really weird goes on. The rest die. Divide that by two, and many thousands of people have died every time someone has sex. Thus, we ban sex. Gay marriage? Just…what?

“What if a man’s wife got an abortion without telling him?”
What if a man’s wife goes on a trip to Jamaica without telling him? Clearly, the conclusion is to ban all trips to Jamaica, right?

 
Flag Post
Originally posted by CanadianOverlord:
Originally posted by Spaghedeity:
You make adoption seem like a valid alternative. The adoption system is currently overflowing with kids who aren’t being adopted.

What does this actually have to do with legalizing abortion?

If you can’t abort, and can’t keep the child for whatever reason, what else is there?

What? I’m asking you why the flaws of the current adoption system are relevant to the discussion of abortion.

 
Flag Post
Originally posted by GameCrazyKid:
Originally posted by iMachine:

Because everybody, even at a subconscient level, bases pretty much their entire behavior in their morals. Except for sociopaths, of course.

But if peoples’ morals are different, why does this matter?

I know you are about to say that I am thinking on empathy, but actually, empathy are the basis of morals:
Whenever I ask myself if something is moral, I ask myself if it would bring more joy then pain overral…

But you just said that there is no such thing as moral or immoral. That there are only individual morals.

And if the majority of individuals agree that a fetus is a life, then why go against the majority on this one? Because it does affect them. What if a man’s wife got an abortion without telling him?

I love how conservatives always claim to be a majority without backing it up.

 
Flag Post
Originally posted by CanadianOverlord:
Originally posted by GameCrazyKid:
Originally posted by iMachine:

Because everybody, even at a subconscient level, bases pretty much their entire behavior in their morals. Except for sociopaths, of course.

But if peoples’ morals are different, why does this matter?

I know you are about to say that I am thinking on empathy, but actually, empathy are the basis of morals:
Whenever I ask myself if something is moral, I ask myself if it would bring more joy then pain overral…

But you just said that there is no such thing as moral or immoral. That there are only individual morals.

And if the majority of individuals agree that a fetus is a life, then why go against the majority on this one? Because it does affect them. What if a man’s wife got an abortion without telling him?

I love how conservatives always claim to be a majority without backing it up.

I love how you did not see the ‘if’ in that sentence. It was hypothetical dumbass.