Abortion page 70

Because possibilities.

Um… Okay.

Save one life any ruin two others? Awesome idea!

You assume life won’t be worth living after raising a kid? Lol, you don’t have much experience around kids, do you? Seriously, it isn’t worth killing your child. I asked last page, would it make a difference if you killed your child (by painless lethal injection) when it’s five? Of course it would. Why?

Who said anything about being “noble?”

“I know what is best for you, son. This is the only answer.” Some others have mentioned it like they’re doing it all for their child. Noble is probably an exaggeration, but you know what I’m referring to.

Originally posted by WwarMmachine:

You assume life won’t be worth living after raising a kid?

You do know that not everyone has a perfect life, right?

Lol, you don’t have much experience around kids, do you?

You’d be surprised.

/pedobear

Seriously, it isn’t worth killing your child. I asked last page,

Because every person’s life is the same.

Originally posted by karmakoolkid:

AND,,,,WwarM….believe it or not, when tenco1 sez that, it means that MOST ppl’s lives ARE NOT LIKE YOURS. Ya just CAN NOT judge the world using the very limited data base that is called YOUR life. Further complicating this process if a factor called SELF-CENTEREDNESS…which far too many ppl are “afflicted” by.

Yay, people understand me!

AND,,,,WwarM….believe it or not, when tenco1 sez that, it means that MOST ppl’s lives ARE NOT LIKE YOURS. Ya just CAN NOT judge the world using the very limited data base that is called YOUR life. Further complicating this process if a factor called SELF-CENTEREDNESS…which far too many ppl are “afflicted” by.

.

Originally posted by tenco1:

Originally posted by WwarMmachine:

You assume life won’t be worth living after raising a kid?

You do know that not everyone has a perfect life, right?

I’m going to make the leap and say that no one has a perfect life.

So I apparently missed something important. You were discussing about how unfair it can be for a mother to abort her child? No? Well, what page should I look at, seriously?

To whom was this reply?

I don’t see the comparison.

That’s the point. We talk about fetuses and you start talking about people in coma. There is no comparison. So don’t make it.

Right, you don’t want to, but you need to. That’s what I missed?

That’s overdramatising the issue. We don’t “need to”, but there are certainly cases in which it can save lives, or in which it won’t ruin lives.

True, life is unfair, but we’re working to weaken the suicide rates.

Eh, suicide rates aren’t that relevant to abortion.

Is the fetus in constant pain?

That’s not a valid question. There may be fetuses that will be born dead or with a deadly disease. These will not enjoy their life, basically because they won’t have any.

Another excuse for murder?

Murder is the illegal killing of a person. A fetus is not a person, and abortion is legal in certain places. I think you meant “killing”. And then you’re just driving on emotional appeals. Again, nobody wants to kill.

“but those other options require you to suffer through the pregnancy” – What do you mean?

The mother is forced to carry the fetus for the full period and give birth, and spend time hopelessly searching for an adoption center or spend resources on the child.

Yes, less rights, I understand, but people having the right to just kill it, for fear of the unknown?

No fear of the unknown is relevant here.

…Anyway, I was wondering what all of you think about killing a pregnant person, and being charged with two murders.

Not relevant to abortion.

would it make a difference if you killed your child (by painless lethal injection) when it’s five? Of course it would. Why?

The actual difference is that a child can be removed without killing it. A fetus is impossible to remove without killing it. If we find a way to remove a fetus without it being killed (and it is equally safe), abortion should be made illegal, and this new method should be the replacement.

Originally posted by issendorf:

.

Originally posted by tenco1:

Originally posted by WwarMmachine:

You assume life won’t be worth living after raising a kid?

You do know that not everyone has a perfect life, right?

I’m going to make the leap and say that no one has a perfect life.

Nah…issen, THAT is a pretty good “stand”.
Take it from someone that has lived a lot of it…
someone that has seen a lot of it all around him.
Of course, this “stand” on perfection hinges a great deal on how one defines perfection.
BTW….I have the “perfect” friend//wife.
I don’t deserve her….but, I guess she feels “sorry” for me,,,
kinda like the stray dogs we take in.

Originally posted by Bobneson:

So your one of them athesit? Here is some proof that there is a god : You athesit Connot convert any God belivers to athesitism. We God belivers can convert some of you athesit.
How do i know that god does not want us to aport our babies? THE PLAN OF SALVATION!
Grandpa larry the monkey has some words to say to you.

Can’t tell if stupid or just trolling…

LOL…likely BOTH.
I find that one is usually the cause of the other.
OR, they are so much alike that they luv to “hang” together.

While no particular atheist “person” converted me from being a typical theist,,,,
I certainly “switched sides”…..
as I grew older & “wiser”.
I think there is a solid connection between “wise” & A-theism.

Originally posted by karmakoolkid:

Nah…issen, THAT is a pretty good “stand”.
Take it from someone that has lived a lot of it…
someone that has seen a lot of it all around him.
Of course, this “stand” on perfection hinges a great deal on how one defines perfection.
BTW….I have the “perfect” friend//wife.
I don’t deserve her….but, I guess she feels “sorry” for me,,,
kinda like the stray dogs we take in.

…

What, no-one else is going to say it? Okay, fine, I’ll just go and say what everyone is thinking right now.

Still a better love story than Twilight.

Originally posted by Murder_Machine:

Can’t tell if stupid or just trolling…

As karma said, it’s probably both. Mostly the former, though.

Originally posted by karmakoolkid:

George Carlin?

Originally posted by Murder_Machine:

Can’t tell if stupid or just trolling…

Have you considered the possibility that it might be both simultaneously?

My personal view is that if a person’s situation or inclination is such that they are considering abortion, they should be considering abortion. The fact that they are considering it is proof that it’s something they should seriously consider. If you look at the situation and see it as so unworkable that you’re thinking of aborting the fetus, there’s a good chance you’re right. Aborting a fetus is not exemplary behavior but it’s sometimes the best option.

Q: How would YOU feel if your parents had aborted YOU?
A: I wouldn’t feel anything about it. If there were an afterlife I suspect I would have other things to worry about.

Q: What about the JOY of LIFE?
A: What about the misery of life? I consider this to be a wash in the vast majority of cases. If you are an exception who’s life is overwhelmingly joyful, chances are it’s at someone else’s expense whether you know it or not and whether you are to blame or not. Probably it’s at the expense of many people and not just one. If your life is overwhelmingly miserable, you just got done a favor. If you don’t understand how death might be preferable to life then congratulations. In most cases it’s fair to call it a wash though.

Q: What about ADOPTION?
A: I have relatives who have had babies. From what they’ve told me and what I know about the childbirth process I think this quote from my sister sums it up nicely. “Noone talks about how much having a baby wrecks your body”. I don’t have, and can never have, personal experience with the aftereffects so I take their word for it because it seems plausible. As often happens when discussing abortion, let’s do a hypothetical:

Someone’s life is at risk. Without my intervention they are certain to die. The only way to save them is to get my butt kicked for nine months so severely that I end up in the hospital. I’m likely to suffer lifelong consequences from the beating, even if I go through a lengthy rehab. I might die from it. If I choose not to intervene am I a bad guy?

My answer to that is no. There are reasons the news reports people who run into burning buildings and such. Because they’ve gone above reasonable expectations. They deserve praise, but the people who didn’t run into the building don’t deserve scorn nor should they be punished.

Q: Could YOU look at [insert baby that you’ve met] and then have it KILLED?
A: Yes, if the situation were right. I wouldn’t be happy about it, but yes. But this isn’t a baby, it’s a fetus. To me there is a moral distinction there. It’s similar to the reason I could flush a gallon of my own sperm down a toilet and then go eat a sandwich and take a nap and think nothing more of it. A bucket of sperm is a potential person too. Every cell in a person’s body is a potential person under the right conditions. Furthermore, most everyone acknowledges that there are developmentally based moral distinctions. If one does not then I hope they have the consistency to fight for the legalization of pedophilia and child labor.

Q: You’re a HORRIBLE PERSON!
A: That’s more of a statement than a question. If this statement is true, wouldn’t it be better for society if any woman I impregnated had an abortion?

Originally posted by Klatoo:

I know I’ve been doing this a lot lately, and should make more meaningful posts, but I can really only say one thing:

5/5 needs badges.

So killing your 5-year-old is wrong just because it would be a waste of five years?

Killing a 5 year old is wrong because it is already a human. We set the abortion deadline far before birth for moral convenience; as a society we recognize that at a certain point a mother should decide whether she wants to abort her fetus or not. This is on the moral level, anyway.

Objectively, a 5 year old or even a newborn cannot be grouped into the same category as a fetus; this is my first problem with your logic. A fetus is not an individual being in the womb; it is a developing part of the mother, which could become a human one day. I’ll repeat: early fetuses are body parts of pregnant women, not individual beings; newborns and toddlers are individual humans. You may argue that at a certain point the fetus does become, in essence, an individual, but this is in a period of birth where abortion is illegal. Secondly, if you’re willing to put a born human into the same category as an essential leech, why stop there? Why not say that the zygote is a human, and it would be just as immoral to terminate that as to kill a child? Are men who ejaculate without the imminent possibility of fertilization mass murderers? Every sperm cell, every egg cell, every zygote, every embryo and every fetus has the potential to become a human. They are not equivalent, by that measure, to humans.

Originally posted by ohmylanta:

So killing your 5-year-old is wrong just because it would be a waste of five years?

Killing a 5 year old is wrong because it is already a human.

First of all: I totally agree with you.
A quick terminology related point that I think is necessary here, though: I think it would reduce possible misunderstandings if you said a 5 year old is a complete human or, even better, a person, since that’s basically the point. I think it is perfectly fine to say that a fetus is a developing human, but it isn’t a person, especially not during the first few weeks and therefore can not be treated like one.
Maybe I’m nitpicking, but I think that many of the misunderstandings here happen because some people seem to see the terms human, baby, fetus and person as something that carries more or less the same information.

I really think the essential difference that is to be pointed out is the fact that a child can be removed from its parents without harm to the child.

I believe that a woman may get an abortion if the baby was forced upon her through means such as rape, but if she knew what she was getting into when she was having sex with another person and ended up getting pregnant she should keep that baby seeing that she brought it on her own self.

Originally posted by Chris2fly:

I believe that a woman may get an abortion if the baby was forced upon her through means such as rape, but if she knew what she was getting into when she was having sex with another person and ended up getting pregnant she should keep that baby seeing that she brought it on her own self.

Forcing her to go through something that will follow her for the rest of her life, for what could be one mistake seems rather excessive.

Originally posted by TheLoneLucas:

Originally posted by Chris2fly:

I believe that a woman may get an abortion if the baby was forced upon her through means such as rape, but if she knew what she was getting into when she was having sex with another person and ended up getting pregnant she should keep that baby seeing that she brought it on her own self.

Forcing her to go through something that will follow her for the rest of her life, for what could be one mistake seems rather excessive.

And here’s something else to think about: should raising a child really be a punishment?

Totally, turns the woman into an upstanding, moral and whatnot citizen.

I know it.

If a person believe that a fetus is a person, with all the rights and moral standing of a person, why does it make any sense to allow abortion in cases of rape? Why is it ok to kill a person because their father was a criminal?

Originally posted by Klatoo:

If a person believe that a fetus is a person, with all the rights and moral standing of a person, why does it make any sense to allow abortion in cases of rape? Why is it ok to kill a person because their father was a criminal?

But this relies on the assumption that the fetus is a person, which it is not.

Originally posted by ohmylanta:

Originally posted by Klatoo:

If a person believe that a fetus is a person, with all the rights and moral standing of a person, why does it make any sense to allow abortion in cases of rape? Why is it ok to kill a person because their father was a criminal?

But this relies on the assumption that the fetus is a person, which it is not.

Which relies on the government deciding who is a person and who isn’t, which we have seen throughout history (Remember when women weren’t persons?). As one could probably guess, this is what ProLife people want: the fetus to be considered a person.

Why? It’s merely a drain on the woman and can’t think/feel until the brain has started to form at around week 12.

A fetus isn’t even a person yet, so it’s not really that big of a deal if the mother has an abortion. She is allowed to do as she pleases. If she doesn’t want the baby or doesn’t want her high school cheer-leading captain reputation being ruined, let her get rid of the baby. It’s her decision, so it shouldn’t be of any concern to anyone else.

I just wanted to voice my opinion on abortion. I’m done here.

Originally posted by TheRoflWaffle:

A fetus isn’t even a person yet,

Probably so….although, from a lot of discussion on this very forum…the “jury appears to be yet out on this one”. BUT, when we stop killing “REAL PERSONS” in mostly senseless wars, poorly trained drivers & w/ poorly regulated “road rules” (drunk-driving being a huge one), in societal isssues related to extreme poor child-rearing (gangs), etc…..THEN, I think we could maybe RATIONALLY begin to show some actual deep concern about this abortion issue.

I have constantly asked jhco this question….only to be equally constantly ignored,,as is his usual “bag-0-tricks”: Just what the hell would we be doing w/ all of these “millions” of “babies” the mega-conservative religous zealot so love to tout were we to have allowed them to be born? One of the more interesting answers I get from the “pro-life” faction is: they don’t have one.

so it’s not really that big of a deal if the mother has an abortion.

While ya say YOU are “done here”,,,I would like for ya to opt to share a weeeebit more w/ us by telling us just why a think this isn’t “really that big of a deal”. Were is possible, I’d greatly desire that ya could be a “fly-on-the-wall” as many a woman talks of just how her abortion isn’t “really that big of a deal”. If find personal agony in making the decision—often accompanied w/ long term emotional issues—to be SOME KIND of “deal” to them.

THIS usually supercedes her interest in caring about "her high school cheer-leading captain’s reputation being ruined {or even sullied}. OR, more mature women having concens about such trivial outside “interests”.

She is allowed to do as she pleases. If she doesn’t want the baby or doesn’t want her high school cheer-leading captain reputation being ruined, let her get rid of the baby. It’s her decision, so it shouldn’t be of any concern to anyone else.

While YOUR position on abortion does seem to be a weeebit “cavalier”, ya’re (pretty much?) correct in making this statement.

Why is it when abortion is argued, those for it always pick out the most devastating part of a society to use as arguments. Not all of America is made up of gangs, or women unable to raise a child because they are too immature or stupid. This is a small portion of our society but it seems in order to make an argument for killing the unborn you must bring up these dredges of society to make you argument seem rational.

Using your arguments I can see how the killing of children at any age could be made a logical argument. But why stop there, let’s just make murder legal. After all it’s the murderers choice to abort some guy on the street so he can have his money or car. All of your arguments are so full of holes that it is even hard to make sense of them. Maybe the immaturity is located between the eyes of the misfits of this forum. Maybe it is time for the anti-life people to grow some and take responsibility for the harm you cause. It’s called responsibility.